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Hello20394

Cancelled
Original poster
Jan 3, 2024
2
0
Only interested in 2012 to 2015 Macbooks as I’ve heard that those are the best Apple has made besides the M1. I just had to fix my 2019 Macbook Pro and I at this point I’m substantially in the negative and would rather buy an older model that will last and wont depreciate in value. I’m looking for it to last me a couple of years at least.

Any suggestions on which one to buy? Also where should I buy it from?
 

rovostrov

macrumors regular
Oct 3, 2020
180
132
Only interested in 2012 to 2015 Macbooks as I’ve heard that those are the best Apple has made besides the M1. I just had to fix my 2019 Macbook Pro and I at this point I’m substantially in the negative and would rather buy an older model that will last and wont depreciate in value. I’m looking for it to last me a couple of years at least.

Any suggestions on which one to buy? Also where should I buy it from?
About a year ago I decided it was time to upgrade my MacBook. I sold my 2012 MBP and bought a 2019. That was the worst computer mistake I have ever made. It was a horrible machine but luckily it had AC+ I had to send it to apple 4 times in less than a year due to a failed logic board (twice), failed SSD and finally a failed display. The last time it came back, I sold it on eBay and bought a 2015 (R9) MacBook Pro and have not had a single issue with it. I know folks are saying to ditch the old intel macs for AS, but I really don't need AS and since the SDD is removable in the 2015, that alone saved a lot of money by not shelling out big cash for Apples (ridiculous) prices for upgraded storage. Used 2015's are running a few hundred bucks and you can find some good deals now since everyone is dumping them to make the switch to AS. I bought mine on eBay and made sure I was dealing with a reliable seller. If you decide to look at the 2015's be aware that the RAM is not upgradable so be sure to get one with 16GB and one with the dual (R9) graphics.
 
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throAU

macrumors G3
Feb 13, 2012
9,201
7,354
Perth, Western Australia
Any suggestions on which one to buy? Also where should I buy it from?

Buy the best condition 2015 Pro you can afford.

My 2015 13" Pro is still going, the screen coating is coming off, but that can be fixed with removal. If you can, get one with 16 GB of RAM.

That said... the M1 powered 13" air is a bargain, and likely not much more expensive than a decent 2015 MacBook Pro.

its night and day faster (likely faster than a 15" older machine easily), will get continued software support for some time, etc. Its also silent.

Intel's CPU performance really stagnated between 2012 and 2019 or so, things just got hotter to get faster and obviously the 2016-2019 keyboard fiasco means those machines have other major problems as well.
 

dizmonk

macrumors 65816
Nov 26, 2010
1,080
678
I would recommend getting a first-generation Apple Silicon model. The power efficiency is significant. There are numerous places you can find one. You could go with an AS Macbook air without knowing what you need it for.
 

throAU

macrumors G3
Feb 13, 2012
9,201
7,354
Perth, Western Australia
at this point I’m substantially in the negative and would rather buy an older model that will last and wont depreciate in value.

Just re-read this bit.

I know it sucks, but at this point throwing money at an Intel Mac and expecting it to last and not depreciate is total folly unless you specifically want intel for specific reasons to do with some specific software compatibility. Especially if funds are limited and you're buying this as something to use for the long run rather than buying twice.

Really, seriously try to put the cash away for an M1 refurb or even just used. Any M series Mac is so much faster than anything you'll get from 2015 or earlier, the battery won't be anywhere near as badly toasted, it will continue to run new software for some time, etc.

Anything intel is likely not going to be supported for more than a couple of new OS revisions (if that), and in MacOS land new apps start needing the new OS reasonably rapidly.

Sure the onboard SSD is not upgradable internally, but you can at least use the network or external drives via high speed USB 4/Thunderbolt. You can't upgrade CPUs in the old machines and that will be your limiting factor moving forwards.
 

Fishrrman

macrumors Penryn
Feb 20, 2009
29,243
13,317
You don't want to be buying a 2015 (or earlier) MacBook Pro now.
(Having said that, the 2015 MBP was one of the best from the Intel days -- but the "Intel days" are over).

Get a MacBook Pro 14" or 16".
Either m3, or even m2 or m1 (refurbished from Apple).
 

Ifti

macrumors 601
Dec 14, 2010
4,033
2,601
UK
The best MacBook is the one that fits and fulfills your particular unique requirements.
What's best for me isn't necessarily best for someone else.
 

Ifti

macrumors 601
Dec 14, 2010
4,033
2,601
UK
Just re-read this bit.

I know it sucks, but at this point throwing money at an Intel Mac and expecting it to last and not depreciate is total folly unless you specifically want intel for specific reasons to do with some specific software compatibility. Especially if funds are limited and you're buying this as something to use for the long run rather than buying twice.

Really, seriously try to put the cash away for an M1 refurb or even just used. Any M series Mac is so much faster than anything you'll get from 2015 or earlier, the battery won't be anywhere near as badly toasted, it will continue to run new software for some time, etc.

Anything intel is likely not going to be supported for more than a couple of new OS revisions (if that), and in MacOS land new apps start needing the new OS reasonably rapidly.

Sure the onboard SSD is not upgradable internally, but you can at least use the network or external drives via high speed USB 4/Thunderbolt. You can't upgrade CPUs in the old machines and that will be your limiting factor moving forwards.

This is sound advice ;)
 
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throAU

macrumors G3
Feb 13, 2012
9,201
7,354
Perth, Western Australia
You don't want to be buying a 2015 (or earlier) MacBook Pro now.
(Having said that, the 2015 MBP was one of the best from the Intel days -- but the "Intel days" are over).

Get a MacBook Pro 14" or 16".
Either m3, or even m2 or m1 (refurbished from Apple).

Given the OP is "substantially in the negative" I think stretching to an M1 Air (or m1 Mac mini if portability is not essential) would be the limit of financial sensibility, but yes, agree with the sentiment entirely.

Irrespective of the CPU spec differences on paper, the actual usage experience with the newer M platform is just massively superior in so many ways.
 

elmarjazz

macrumors regular
May 26, 2010
212
114
You don't want to be buying a 2015 (or earlier) MacBook Pro now.
(Having said that, the 2015 MBP was one of the best from the Intel days -- but the "Intel days" are over).

Get a MacBook Pro 14" or 16".
Either m3, or even m2 or m1 (refurbished from Apple).
The 2015 MBP 15” has everything you could want; great keyboard, great trackpad, good size and nice display, ports (although the TB2 is kind of useless these days), 16 GB RAM, upgradable SSD, and still looks great (even if most are showing their age). BUT…, it will run hot under any load, fans spin up loud, even the MBA M1 powers past it in every way, and maybe the most important - new MacOS features are not supported. Also, although 'cheap' on the used market, the MBP 2015 are legacy computers with no APPLE repair support. Any M1 MBP or MBA will run rings around it even in simple video or photo editing, and those APPLE silicon computers are now better value.
 
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HobeSoundDarryl

macrumors G5
If not already deemed obsolete (and aren't all of them before about 2017 now?), 2015 and before are "vintaged" which means the "few years use" you seek will be on MBs without security updates, etc... unless you apply hacks to make them run newer versions of macOS than Apple approves (which seems to be a security risk in itself).

My suggestion is to embrace M-series if you want a hack-free Mac to last "a few years" unless this is a money-driven thing and that’s impossible. If so, the best option may be to jump to PC where competitive forces in abundance can deliver a lot of 2024 PC power for what you’d probably spend for an 8-year-old used Mac.

I’m about an Apple everything guy myself, but PC is not nearly as bad as fans make it out to be. And all that competition for all parts like RAM & SSDs will deliver a LOT of value for the same money. A 2024 PC is going to have fresh everything for “next few years” and beyond. And it can run a whole lot more apps than even the best Mac can run.

An often-overlooked problem with the old Mac approach- and I have 2 older Macs myself- goes beyond security updates. Apple apps tend to inevitably update with each new macOS update and the file format is tweaked to no longer open on older versions (than maybe 2 generations at best). So for example, someone sends you a Pages/Numbers/Keynote file that they've tweaked on a newer Mac and you can't open it on the 2015. Or you make some edits to a such a file, send it to someone else to have a look and further tweak, they send your own file back to you... but now you can't open it. And of course, core apps like Safari will no longer update... and websites you want to access will stop working (changing browsers can remedy this issue but then you are trusting Google or similar as browser app).

Bottom line: when vintaged... or, in your case, even within the 3 years window of vintaging (which likely incorporates the very last of the Intel Macs now), that ship has sailed. While I still have 2 older Macs in use, they are locked to their final official macOS update and they continue to be used for special purposes that can still work on them. Mainstream stuff like Safari browsing and using the unique Apple apps is done on a much newer M-series Mac to "keep up" with Apple's way to pressing people to buy new.

That shared though: since I needed full Windows (not ARM Windows) for some business needs anyway, embracing Silicon meant embracing "old fashioned bootcamp" too... so, for the first time in about 20 years, I bought a new PC. PC competition means that about half its cost isn't only profit margin. PC RAM & SSD costs a fraction of Apple RAM & SSD. I decided to go bigger than "cheapest" so I basically budgeted what Apple charges for the 8TB SSD upgrade and purchased a full gaming PC with graphics card, 10TB of SSD and 32GB or RAM.

By the time I need to buy my next laptop, if Apple hasn't addressed the exploitive pricing of RAM & SSD, I'll probably replace my MBpro with a Windows laptop. The bulk of what one wants to get done on a computer gets done just about as well on either platform. And I'd rather my purchase cash buys more computer than rains maximum wealth onto shareholders.

I think Mac and macOS is great and all- I use it every single day- but, for me anyway, the abundant focus on delighting shareholders at the expense of customers is getting towards that "enough is enough" moment. A few decades ago, I had one Apple computer and a bunch of tech by "others." 10+ years ago, it became about Apple everything and little tech by others. Now ridiculous pricing is encouraging a full circle choice again.

You- OP- are likely best served to put your Apple purchase budget towards a robust, 2024 PC vs. a vintaged 2015 Mac. You'll certainly get a lot more computer for the same money if you do so. But if it must be Mac, find a way to get at least an M1, which should still have the "a few years" you seek in them before they are vintaged (probably starting in 2026-27 or so).
 
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Dubman

macrumors newbie
Apr 20, 2023
7
5
USA
My daily driver is now the 2023 M2 MBA 15", but I still have a 2012 MBP 15" that is running macOS 14.2.1 flawlessly using the Open Core Legacy Patcher. This model really needs 16GB of RAM. The 2015 model is incrementally improved, but all 2012-2015 MBP were just a triumphant design that has aged phenomenally well all these years. My 2012 MBP is still going strong due to the original build quality plus Apple’s willingness to replace the components that didn’t age well free of charge, long after the warranty expired.

Though a classic MBP like this will still work admirably well, the batteries will have aged, it will run hot, the fans will spin up like a turbo prop airplane with little provocation, and more and more new OS features will simply be missing. The issues I had running simulators in Xcode were the final straw.

My advice, consistent with others above, is to find some way to get your hands an Apple silicon machine. All of them, any of them will run circles around the Intel models, including the one from 2019.
 

HawkTheHusky1902

macrumors 6502a
Jun 26, 2023
666
491
Berlin, Germany
Buy the best condition 2015 Pro you can afford.

My 2015 13" Pro is still going, the screen coating is coming off, but that can be fixed with removal. If you can, get one with 16 GB of RAM.

That said... the M1 powered 13" air is a bargain, and likely not much more expensive than a decent 2015 MacBook Pro.

its night and day faster (likely faster than a 15" older machine easily), will get continued software support for some time, etc. Its also silent.

Intel's CPU performance really stagnated between 2012 and 2019 or so, things just got hotter to get faster and obviously the 2016-2019 keyboard fiasco means those machines have other major problems as well.
This. I do not like how everywhere, on Reddit and here, people say to immediately just ditch the good 2012-2015 MBPs and get a M1 8gb, even though for example I cannot afford a m1 rn, and I do not need more than a 2015.
I seriously like the replaceable SSDs in these...A LOT!!!
 
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Al Rukh

macrumors 65816
Nov 15, 2017
1,148
1,283
I have the 2015 MBP and it deteriorated within 2-3 years. It gets hot now doing nothing. Bought a M1 Pro MBP and never looked back.
 
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padams35

macrumors 6502a
Nov 10, 2016
502
348
Only interested in 2012 to 2015 Macbooks as I’ve heard that those are the best Apple has made besides the M1. I just had to fix my 2019 Macbook Pro and I at this point I’m substantially in the negative and would rather buy an older model that will last and wont depreciate in value. I’m looking for it to last me a couple of years at least.

Any suggestions on which one to buy? Also where should I buy it from?
Late 2019 or newer. That is when Apple returned to the old reliable keyboard style. Early Apple silicon will probably depreciate less than the late Intel.

One problem with old Macs is Apple only allows pages/numbers/garageband and similar Apple software not directly bundled with the OS to only be installed on a new-to-you Mac if you can install the current versions, which requires one of the two newest versions of MacOS. Six months ago when Monterey was the 2nd oldest 2015s were still attractive, but today the 2nd oldest OS, Ventura, only officially supports 2017 and newer Macbook Pros or 2018 and newer Macbook Airs.


Anyway from a strict reliability perspective the 2015-2017 Macbook Airs are famously regarded as the most durable/reliable Macbooks ever made. Unfortunately they are also infamous for how horribly dated the display visual quality is and they can get a little warm/noisy processing javascript heavy web pages in Monterey.
 
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dizmonk

macrumors 65816
Nov 26, 2010
1,080
678
Only interested in 2012 to 2015 Macbooks as I’ve heard that those are the best Apple has made besides the M1. I just had to fix my 2019 Macbook Pro and I at this point I’m substantially in the negative and would rather buy an older model that will last and wont depreciate in value. I’m looking for it to last me a couple of years at least.

Any suggestions on which one to buy? Also where should I buy it from?
What does it mean to be "substantially in the negative" on a computer? I don't get it. I don't know your budget or needs but I'd recommend any refurbed Apple Silicon series from a legit store.
 
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