MP 1,1-5,1 Which MacOS is best for my cMP 5,1?

[macstatic]

After having stayed on MacOS 10.13 (High Sierra) for the last few years (because of running older software, but now I'm looking into virtual machine and alternative OS booting solution) I'm finally in the position of being able to upgrade to a newer OS for my daily use, but which one would be the best choice for my particular hardware?

- Mid-2010 Mac Pro 5,1
- 3.46 GHz 6-core Xeon processor
- MacOS 10.13.6 High Sierra
- 24 GB RAM (1333 MHz DDR3)
- Boot ROM 144.0.0.0
- Sapphire HD-7950 Vapor-X 3GB OC w/boost graphic card (reflashed for Mac EFI bootscreen)
- Sonnet Allegro (USB3C-4PME) 4-port/dual controller USB 3.2 USB-C card
- multiple internal hard drives (user files/Time Machine) and SSDs (apps and MacOS)

So which MacOS version would take the best advantage of my hardware without slowing it down?
I'm generally fine with 10.13.6 except there's some software I'm using (Logic Pro etc.) which has some new features I'd like to have, but needs at least 10.14.

 

[MarkC426]

I would say 10.14....but I am biased.
I am not interested in patching newer OS's.
I prefer to keep it on supported versions.
I have read so many threads where users are having problems of some sort when patched.

 

[avro707]

Monterey runs nicely, but using the Opencore package of Martin Lo, both my 5,1 will give forbidden symbols on boot if I restart them. Never ever happens on a cold start (press power button). I never found what the reason was and don't bother asking in the Opencore thread because it's not vanilla Opencore. So I just live with that small issue.

 

[macstatic]

I would say 10.14....but I am biased.
I am not interested in patching newer OS's.
I prefer to keep it on supported versions.
I have read so many threads where users are having problems of some sort when patched.

Good point! And 10.14 is the final MacOS I can (officially) use on this Mac Pro, right?
How does it run and compare in features with older OS versions? Obviously I'm not interested in a more fancy GUI if it makes the computer run slower and I lose useful features (a while back I read a comment about MacOS becoming a more "consumer" OS because Apple have been throwing out a lot of the more "pro" features).

Monterey runs nicely, but using the Opencore package of Martin Lo, both my 5,1 will give forbidden symbols on boot if I restart them. Never ever happens on a cold start (press power button). I never found what the reason was and don't bother asking in the Opencore thread because it's not vanilla Opencore. So I just live with that small issue.

I've never quite understood what Opencore is and how to use it, as there's no proper beginner's guide which explains this, but I believe it's an alternative to the Mac EFI bootscreen for people who can't/won't reflash their non-Mac GPU cards, right?
Since you mentioned Martin Lo I did a web-search for "Opencore Martin Lo" and found The Quick guide to installing OpenCore on a classic Mac Pro (cMP) which seems to explain the installation process well, but if my assumption about what it's for is correct I probably don't need it as I've reflashed my GPU, and I really want to avoid any more computer issues now if I can.

So are there any advantages of running MacOS 12 Monterey over earlier OS versions? Obviously there's the usual security updates and the ability to run newer apps if you need that, but apart from those things -are there good reasons for upgrading from say my 10.13 High Sierra to MacOS 12?

One alternative I've been thinking about is to split a single physical drive into multiple partitions where I can install Windows and different MacOS versions on. That would solve the problem of not having enough drive bays available, or always having to open up and swap drives in order to use a specific OS. That would solve the occasional need for having to use a specific app which only works in one OS, but for my daily use I'm still not sure what to go for and how to make the transition. It helps to have my user folders on a separate drive, apart from MacOS and my apps which are on a 2.5" internal SSD, but it's still going to be a challenge if I want to do a clean install of 10.14 or whatever, then continue having the same user accounts attached to that new OS. Come to think of it, I believe I've been in that situation before, and it somehow turned out to be an easy process. Better look up my notes...
But in any case I'll get to a stage where I need to decided if I'll be commiting to a new OS or not, because won't a user's preferences etc. all be updated to work with that new OS so if you decide to "downgrade" later you'll get into problems?

 

[hwojtek]

which one would be the best choice for my particular hardware?

The latest that runs without much hassle, in your case: Mavericks.

I am not interested in patching newer OS's.

There is no OS patching with OpenCore on this particular setup.

both my 5,1 will give forbidden symbols on boot if I restart them

Most probably NVRAM needs a reset.

 

[O.N.Y.X]

I would say 10.14....but I am biased.
I am not interested in patching newer OS's.
I prefer to keep it on supported versions.
I have read so many threads where users are having problems of some sort when patched.

I second that. I just decided to do a clean install of MacOS Mojave on my 5.1 Mac Pro that is supposed to be the ideal machine for OpenCore (all Apple hardware, except for an AMD RX 560 from MSI - which is said to be one of the best Metal-compatible GPUs for Mac Pro) and my attempts to install Monterey never made it past a pitch black boot screen.

Mojave on the other hand installs and simply works. The last version of Logic to run under Mojave is 10.5.1 - I'm a Logic user too and have never had any bigger issues under Mojave.

 

[macstatic]

Mojave on the other hand installs and simply works. The last version of Logic to run under Mojave is 10.5.1 - I'm a Logic user too and have never had any bigger issues under Mojave.

Good to hear from several people having the same experiences. Sounds like going to 10.15 or beyond might mean taking chances if you're aiming for a stable, carefree OS.

Logic Pro 10.4.8 which I'm using under MacOS 10.13.6 works fine, but I miss the Quick Sampler, so this would be nice to have. Do you feel MacOS 10.14 runs well compared to previous MacOS versions on your cMP?

PS: when you did a clean install, how did you go about putting all your own stuff back (app preferences, Address book and Calendar data, iTunes media etc)? I've always done this manually, but it takes a lot of hard work to get it right and not miss anything out.

 

[hwojtek]

Good to hear from several people having the same experiences.

Tell me about cognitive biases.
You hear from a few who failed but not from hundreds who succeeded and imply "it's a failure", which is a logical fallacy.
Another logical fallacy is "if it doesn't work for me, it's broken" approach.
Nothing wrong in using older OS per se, but the reasoning behind it and the crudeness of this thought process is just scary. I get it if you had a genuine need of an older OS because of an app that only works in it. But throwing out the opportunity (and work of numerous developers worldwide) due to lackluster logic is just beyond me.

 

[O.N.Y.X]

Tell me about cognitive biases.
You hear from a few who failed but not from hundreds who succeeded and imply "it's a failure", which is a logical fallacy.
Another logical fallacy is "if it doesn't work for me, it's broken" approach.

macstatic's goal is to have a stable system. Fact of the matter is you'll end up with an experimental, unsupported OS by Apple if you install OpenCore. And yes, you will have to patch things eventually. That said, one can always attempt to install OpenCore on a secondary drive and see how this turns out.

@macstatic Logic was the main app to run on my Mac Pro. I am not a studio professional though, just a hobby musician. Most of the data you mentioned are actually saved on your Apple ID or in iCloud. So if you use the same Apple ID the fresh install will import everything. I preferred to set up Logic from scratch, manually installing plugins and libraries. While this is time consuming it will make sure that everything is up to date - besides I'm not doing this every other week, more like once every two years.

So I never had a lot of clutter to begin with, which is presumably the main reason for a very stable production environment.

 

[ojfl]

For production I think it is probably better to stay with the latest version that is supported for the platform, which would be 10.14.6 . That is actually what I have been running. Once I get a new machine, I will install a version of Linux on the MacPro 5,1 . I have an older MacPro 3,1 that is already running Linux. It would be a waste not to use those machine moving forward. But again, for production, I would stick to the latest supported version. For tinkering, or even as a personal machine not for production, it is actually an interesting proposition to go the OpenCore route.

 

[prefuse07]

To the people here complaining about their Monterey install never finishing or "hanging" on a black screen and blaming it on OpenCore -- this is because Monterey reboots SEVERAL TIMES during the install, and that install just takes forever in general. Even installing it on supported Macs, the same thing occurs...

I would recommend giving it another shot, assuming you did everything correctly -- let the computer reboot the required amount of times, and also give it time to do its thing. When you no longer see "install macOS Monterey" within the OC bootpicker -- that is when the OS is fully installed.

Otherwise, to the OP -- the last OS that works on the cMP without any "hacking" is Mojave, and it does run very well (although very out of date now), and depending on which metal GPU you have, you may not have a boot screen----but it does work.

 

[macstatic]

macstatic's goal is to have a stable system. Fact of the matter is you'll end up with an experimental, unsupported OS by Apple if you install OpenCore. And yes, you will have to patch things eventually. That said, one can always attempt to install OpenCore on a secondary drive and see how this turns out.

Had it been a few years ago I wouldn't mind, but all this tinkering is driving me crazy. Nowadays I just want a computer that works. Of course, the tinkering comes by itself since I have an interest for computing above average anyway
So let's just say that beyond the tinkering, adjusting and figuring out stuff that I "have to do" I don't want to give myself any additional work.

@macstatic Logic was the main app to run on my Mac Pro. I am not a studio professional though, just a hobby musician.

Same here. And since I'm not exchanging files or collaborating with others I can pretty much use whatever version which works for me.

Most of the data you mentioned are actually saved on your Apple ID or in iCloud. So if you use the same Apple ID the fresh install will import everything.

Oh, I don't keep any of my files stored with my Apple ID/iCloud. Everything is kept locally.
I wish I could find the notes I made on how I "linked back" my user folders together with a newly installed MacOS. That would solve a lot of issues and make the transition very easy.

I preferred to set up Logic from scratch, manually installing plugins and libraries. While this is time consuming it will make sure that everything is up to date - besides I'm not doing this every other week, more like once every two years.

I know what you're saying. Been there, done that
Talking about plugins, do I have to un-install all licensed plugins before wiping the drive and doing a fresh install of MacOS, and re-installing the plugins? Or can I just install each plugin from scratch again (and the previous drive's plugins will be rendered useless)?

So I never had a lot of clutter to begin with, which is presumably the main reason for a very stable production environment.

That's what I'm aiming for with a fresh install of the OS. I've been experimenting a bit too much over the years with everything, so there's boung to be a lot of stray files and other leftovers.

 

[macstatic]

Otherwise, to the OP -- the last OS that works on the cMP without any "hacking" is Mojave, and it does run very well (although very out of date now), and depending on which metal GPU you have, you may not have a boot screen----but it does work.

I have an HD-7950 and have reflashed its VBIOS for getting the Mac boot screen. Unfortunately one of the two DVI uutputs are lost because of this, but I'm hoping the DisplayPort connector will work so I can add a second display in addition to using the first DVI port.

I'm not writing off any OS above 10.14, but from what I've read it appears 10.14 is the one to go for when it comes to ease of use/stability. But being curious about the later ones I plan to create a separate multi-OS drive for getting that choice, but I don't think I can link more than one OS to my user folders, so I have to commit to one OS for my daily use.

 

[eicca]

I've used Big Sur, Monterey and Ventura on work and personal machines and always end up coming back to the comfort and stability of Mojave. It's probably the best OS Apple has ever released. The newest OS releases just feel so dumbed-down and patronizing. They're going the Microsoft route of telling me how I should be using my computer instead of the Old Apple way of designing slick, easy functionality and then getting the hell out of the way so I can just work.

My next move may be to Linux.

 

[prefuse07]

I have an HD-7950 and have reflashed its VBIOS for getting the Mac boot screen. Unfortunately one of the two DVI uutputs are lost because of this, but I'm hoping the DisplayPort connector will work so I can add a second display in addition to using the first DVI port.

I'm not writing off any OS above 10.14, but from what I've read it appears 10.14 is the one to go for when it comes to ease of use/stability. But being curious about the later ones I plan to create a separate multi-OS drive for getting that choice, but I don't think I can link more than one OS to my user folders, so I have to commit to one OS for my daily use.

Since you've mentioned it -- I would recommend giving the Martin Lo package of OpenCore a shot, along with Monterey, and then you can compare Mojave with Monterey first hand.

I just recently switched from Ableton Live to Logic Pro, as my DAW, and have been VERY pleased with the transition. Of course, I am now running Ventura on my 7,1 -- but I initally made the switch on my 5,1, running Monterey 12.6.1 via OpenCore, and even that was running the latest version of Logic very well.

 

[prefuse07]

I've used Big Sur, Monterey and Ventura on work and personal machines and always end up coming back to the comfort and stability of Mojave. It's probably the best OS Apple has ever released. The newest OS releases just feel so dumbed-down and patronizing. They're going the Microsoft route of telling me how I should be using my computer instead of the Old Apple way of designing slick, easy functionality and then getting the hell out of the way so I can just work.

My next move may be to Linux.

The funny thing about this -- I actually find Ventura to mimic Fedora 37 with Gnome (very very very closely)...

 

[avro707]

Good to hear from several people having the same experiences. Sounds like going to 10.15 or beyond might mean taking chances if you're aiming for a stable, carefree OS.

I would say Monterey is very stable on both my 5,1 machines. Aside from the mentioned little glitch, they run absolutely faultless. The 6 core machine is used daily - it runs Zwift in my cycling paincave.

Given it also has a modern graphics card and upgraded wifi and Bluetooth, that machine also doesn’t seem too outdated in general use.

I won’t go back to the older MacOS versions, they are a bit too outdated.

 

[O.N.Y.X]

I know what you're saying. Been there, done that
Talking about plugins, do I have to un-install all licensed plugins before wiping the drive and doing a fresh install of MacOS, and re-installing the plugins? Or can I just install each plugin from scratch again (and the previous drive's plugins will be rendered useless)?




That's what I'm aiming for with a fresh install of the OS. I've been experimenting a bit too much over the years with everything, so there's boung to be a lot of stray files and other leftovers.

I uninstalled most of the plugins to be on the safe side with authorizations. If you’re using ilok protected stuff, make sure you deactivate the plugins.

 

[macstatic]

Since you've mentioned it -- I would recommend giving the Martin Lo package of OpenCore a shot, along with Monterey, and then you can compare Mojave with Monterey first hand.

Why would I need to install Opencore when I've already reflashed my GPU (in order to get the EFI bootscreen back)?

 

[avro707]

You will need Opencore to get Monterey installed.

 

[macstatic]

You will need Opencore to get Monterey installed.

Oh, I must have misunderstood what Opencore is, and I'm a little hesitant to installing it -it appears quite complicated and from what I've heard you need to mess around with reflashing the Boot ROM as well. Not the kind of thing I want to risk bricking.
Does MacOS 11 (Ventura) and 13 (Ventura) also rely on Opencore?

 

[avro707]

Oh, I must have misunderstood what Opencore is, and I'm a little hesitant to installing it -it appears quite complicated and from what I've heard you need to mess around with reflashing the Boot ROM as well. Not the kind of thing I want to risk bricking.
Does MacOS 11 (Ventura) and 13 (Ventura) also rely on Opencore?

Bootrom? No.

That’s only if you want that rebuilt which is a worthwhile precaution offered by TSIAlex here.

Open core if you use the Martin Lo package should get you up and running with Monterey fairly easily so long as you follow the instructions.

 

[macstatic]

Bootrom? No.

Huh? I'm a little confused. Here it says (emphasis by me):

OK. You dumped your BootROM, then added the EnableGop.ffs and flashed the resulting file back to the BootROM.
That bit is correct. After flashing, OpenCore will no longer be the default boot loader but the native Apple Startup Manager.

That’s only if you want that rebuilt which is a worthwhile precaution offered by TSIAlex here.

Yes, I'm one of the unlucky ones who have had to get that done recently as my BootROM had become corrupted (probably because I tried to install Windows 10 with the help of a USB flash drive which I understand I'm not supposed to do -but burn the Windows ISO installer to a DVD instead).
So messing around with the BootRom is not something I want to risk messing up again. I must add that TSIAlex did a great job of it though, and very quickly!

Open core if you use the Martin Lo package should get you up and running with Monterey fairly easily so long as you follow the instructions.

So in addition to creating a Mac EFI bootscreen without having to reflash the GPU it also patches the OS to make it run on unsupported Macs?

 

[h9826790]

Oh, I must have misunderstood what Opencore is, and I'm a little hesitant to installing it -it appears quite complicated and from what I've heard you need to mess around with reflashing the Boot ROM as well. Not the kind of thing I want to risk bricking.
Does MacOS 11 (Ventura) and 13 (Ventura) also rely on Opencore?

It's completely the other way around. OpenCore can give extra protection to the Mac Pro's BootROM (e.g. stop Windows to write that digital cert to corrupt your BootROM), but not write anything into it.

OpenCore is a boot loader. You can think that it is a mini OS, which small enough to be installed onto the EFI partition (a partition on the hard drive, not BootROM). Then the cMP can boot to it.

Then OpenCore allow the cMP to further boot to another OS, even some unsupported OS. e.g. In this case, Monterey on cMP.

The reason why OpenCore is boot screen related because few years back, it is the very first software that allow cMP to utilise the GOP driver to display boot screen. You can imagine this mini OS has a GPU driver for pretty much any modern GPU to display on the cMP. However, this is NOT the original function / intention of the OpenCore team to develope OpenCore. OpenCore is a boot loader, not GPU activator.

Then about 2 months ago, OpenCore developers further provide us the EnableGop driver, which allow us to inject that into the cMP BootROM. So that, even no OpenCore installed, the cMP can still show boot screen. This is more like a side project. The OpenCore developers are so kind to provide this tool to us. It's completely the users to choice to flash the cMP or not, regardless OpenCore is installed or not.

If you want to run unsupported OS on the cMP, you have to either patch the OS system files, or use boot loader. IMO, use boot loader and avoid patching is better.

1) Better security. OpenCore is an open source software, you can check all the codes to see if anything harmful inside. Even you don't have this skill, but many many people have, especially those OpenCore hater. But so far, no one find any prove that OpenCore is harmful to cMP.

And keep all OS system files unpatched should be the most secure.

2) Easier for OS update. Without boot loader, you must patch the system files for unsupported OS to run on cMP. Which means, every OS update breaks the system, and you have to patch it again. And hopefully the same way to patch the system files still works.

With boot loader, as long as the cMP can run the OS unpatched, you can update macOS with the native way, then your cMP can boot to the updated OS. No need to worry about patching.

Anyway, if you want to run Ventura on cMP now. There is no other choice but use OCLP (OpenCore + patching). I personally won't recommend people to go Ventura on cMP yet, unless they absolutely know what they are doing, and what's the possible issue. And how to recover from there, etc...

 

[fatespawn]

I have two 4,1>5,1 that I used with Mojave for years. I avoided Opencore because the learning curve wasn't worth the effort since everything worked fine on Mojave. Why switch? But then I started running into software that would no longer support Mojave on both mine and my wife's Mac Pro. I wanted to wait for the M2 Mini to come out for my wife but decided to try MartinLo's Opencore solution as a stepping stone. Honestly, MartinLo's installation is really easy.

So, I took the plunge on my machine first. Now, we're both running Monterey 12.6.2 with zero problems. In fact, they're running so well, I'm not inclined to purchase the M2 mini for a while. No need at this point.