Which SSDs for an old Mac Pro to run After effects??

[Rootarty]

Here's the story :

I have a mid 2010 Mac Pro (5,1). And I have been trying to pimp it out to optimise it for After Effects and Premiere Pro usage. I have :
- maxed out RAM at 48GB (the unofficial max).
- successfully put in a Windows Quadro 4000.

....and am now about to add 4 SSDs to the system. 2 in the optical drive bay with an OWC multi-mount and 2 more on a Sonnet Tempo adapter for an empty 16x (or 4x if it makes no difference?) PCI slot.

Optic bay Multi Mount
http://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/MM352A52ST/

Sonnet Tempo http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Sonnet Technologies/TSATA6SSDPSE/

My goal is to use one SSD each for each purpose : 1) OS and programs, 2) After Effects program cache, 3) Reading video footage, 4)Writing rendered data. This way all processes are utilising different drives to keep all processes working at maximum speed and efficiency.

I have a choice of 3 SSDs and want to get the best for the job but not pay too much if the drive(s) is overspec for the job. I don't know much at all about the data transfer speeds of hardware components of drives and what it all means with bottlenecks and throughputs or whatever, so I am relying on the kind advice of wise people here.

Here are my choices. I am attaching an image.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/wolverinejacket/16386201505/



The green dots mark the drives the staff at the shop here in Tokyo suggested for a Mac Pro. The Samsung 850 Pro is almost twice as much as the Toshiba CFD HGS, so of course if there is no added benefit to a more expensive drive in the optic bay and Sonnet Tempo PCI adapter case, then i don't want to spend the extra money.

Please help, and many thanks in advance.

Wade

 

[initialsBB]

The optical bay is SATA 2 so there is no benefit to getting the latest and greatest SSD as it will be capped by the interface. The Sonnet card is SATA 3 and can make better use of more recent SSDs.
I saw reviews that show the Toshibas to have good overall performance and excellent price-performance ratio so I don't think you can go wrong with them (especially if you are coming from hard disk drives).
Your plan to separate all your media and render drives is logical, but I think you'll be hitting processor peak before saturating your SATA interfaces unless you are rendering to low compression formats (ProRes 444XQ, DPX, TIFF,...). You may be better served by using fewer SSDs and getting a better graphics card ?

As a side note, I'll be going to Japan in April (yay!!). Is there a tech store in particular you recommend in Tokyo ? I won't be buying really, but more looking at gadgets and accessories

 

[h9826790]

In your case, most likely I will just go for the cheapest one (Toshiba). Can't see too much benefit on choosing the more expensive SSD.

The SSD technology will be improve a lot in the next few years, price will go down. It's better to get the one that have best cost to volume ratio now (their speed are more or less the same anyway). If anything go wrong, get another one later.

To initialsBB, you may spend half day (or more) in Akiba, plenty of gadgets to looking around there

 

[Rootarty]

The optical bay is SATA 2 so there is no benefit to getting the latest and greatest SSD as it will be capped by the interface. The Sonnet card is SATA 3 and can make better use of more recent SSDs.
I saw reviews that show the Toshibas to have good overall performance and excellent price-performance ratio so I don't think you can go wrong with them (especially if you are coming from hard disk drives).
Your plan to separate all your media and render drives is logical, but I think you'll be hitting processor peak before saturating your SATA interfaces unless you are rendering to low compression formats (ProRes 444XQ, DPX, TIFF,...). You may be better served by using fewer SSDs and getting a better graphics card ?

As a side note, I'll be going to Japan in April (yay!!). Is there a tech store in particular you recommend in Tokyo ? I won't be buying really, but more looking at gadgets and accessories

I have a Quadro 4000 (PC card that I got working on Mac). You think it a more powerful card would be a better investment than using SSDs at all..or..better than buying the most expensive choice I have (Samsung)?

I've pretty much decided to just buy 3 Toshibas. I already have one Intel SSD so only need 3 more.

Is there any benefit to use the 16x PCI rather than the 4x?

About Akihabara, I really don't hand around there much at all and usually only go directly to the shop I've found a cheap component at on the net. I think if you google it you'll get far better advice than I could ever give you. Big chain stores might be a good place to start like Bikku Camera, Laox, Yamada Denki, Yodabashi Camrera, Kojima, Ks Denki. You can often get 10% off if you show your passport I believe, so don't forget to take it shopping.

 

[h9826790]

Is there any benefit to use the 16x PCI rather than the 4x?

Shouldn't make any difference. A x4 slot already give you 2GB/s, much more than two SATA 3 SSD can do, not bottleneck there. Some people in fact prefer to install them in the x4 slot, and try to avoid blocking the cold air to cool down the GPU.

 

[Rootarty]

Which SDD to put in the Optical Drive, which in the PCI ?

Shouldn't make any difference. A x4 slot already give you 2GB/s, much more than two SATA 3 SSD can do, not bottleneck there. Some people in fact prefer to install them in the x4 slot, and try to avoid blocking the cold air to cool down the GPU.

I see. Thanks so much for the tip.

My RAM sticks are sometimes recognised and sometimes not when I reseat them. I have tried so many times but I can't get all 3 recognised at once.So it seems like they don't sit in the slots well. Maybe I will try to blow the slots with compressed air to get any dust out.

My next challenge is about where to put each of the 4 SSDs considering the purpose of each. As I mentioned before, I plan to put my divide up my After Effects work flow on my MaPro mid2010(5,1) by using 4 SSDs, one each for the following 4 processes/purposes. 1) OS and programs 2) After Effects (and Premiere Pro) cache 3) reading footage 4) rendering out finished video files.

I have all 4 drive bays full with HDDs, and so will install 2 SSDs into the Optic drive bay with an OWC multi-mount and the other two into a PCI slot on a Sonnet Tempo PCI adapter.

I have two questions that the more research I do the more confused I get because I'm a noob.
1) Considering the 4 processes/purpose I have in mind, which SDDS would be best suited in which spot - optical drive or PCI adapter. And 16x slot or 4x slot ?

2) What is a good method to move my OS and programs to the new SSD? Can it be cones across ? Do I have to install Mavericks or Yosemite from a recovery disc or can I download it from Apple ? Can I install the OS to the SSD for free using my product from my MacPo?

I really need somewhere advice and suggestions.

Thanks,Wade

 

[666sheep]

Shouldn't make any difference. A x4 slot already give you 2GB/s, much more than two SATA 3 SSD can do, not bottleneck there.

A bit of correction is needed here: due to 8/10-bit PCIe bus encoding theoretical maximum on 4 lane PCIe 2.0 slot is 1.6GB/s.

 

[h9826790]

1) Considering the 4 processes/purpose I have in mind, which SDDS would be best suited in which spot - optical drive or PCI adapter. And 16x slot or 4x slot ?

2) What is a good method to move my OS and programs to the new SSD? Can it be cones across ? Do I have to install Mavericks or Yosemite from a recovery disc or can I download it from Apple ? Can I install the OS to the SSD for free using my product from my MacPo?

1) I personally will put the card in slot 4 since it's a "good enough" slot. So, just install the card there and leave the x16 slot empty for something else.

And my own choice is:
a) OSX + rendering output, both these SSDs into the optical bay.
b) And cache + reading footage, these 2 SSDs use the Tempo card.

The reason behind is:
A) I won't sit there and watch the computer to render. So I can accept it to use a slower SSD, it won't waste my time directly.

B) I want a fast OS, but once the data is in the RAM, I won't benefit from the SSD's speed anymore. Also, 15s boot time and 13s boot time won't make any difference to my productivity. I can accept a little bit slower SSD.

C) When I am working in After Effects and Premiere Pro, I want everything as fast as possible. So I want both the cache and reading footage SSD fully utilise it's SATA 3 speed.

Besides, agree that compressed air is the next move.

----------

A bit of correction is needed here: due to 8/10-bit PCIe bus encoding theoretical maximum on 4 lane PCIe 2.0 slot is 1.6GB/s.

Thanks for the correction.

 

[flowrider]

Are Apricorn Velocity Duo x2s available in Japan? If so, I'd go with one of those over the the Sonnet. And, if it were me, I run two, so you'd be at SATA III speeds for all your drives. As far as choices for SSDs, I'd go with Samsung, they are the best.

I am running 2 Duo x2s with 1 Samsung series 840, 2 Samsung 840 EVOs and 1 Samsung 840 Pro. In the States, there seems to be an end of run surplus of 840 EVOs and they are being blown out at some incredibly low prices. If you poke around, you may find some in Tokyo.

Lou

 

[Rootarty]

Thanks for the advice, h9826790.

Lou, there are Samsung 850 EVOs at the store I am going to for about $100 USD (10,000 yen in Japan). If you recommend them over the other SSDs in the image in my original post I will get 3 of them.

----------

But after I get the SSDs set up in optical drive and on the sonnet tempo (which I already bought a few months ago)....

What is a good method to move my OS and programs to the new SSD? Can it be cloned across ? Do I have to install Mavericks or Yosemite from a recovery disc or can I download it from Apple ? Can I install the OS to the SSD for free using my product code from my MacPo?

I have seen a program that seems swell known called Paragon.
http://www.paragon-software.com/technologies/components/migrate-OS-to-SSD/

Would this to be good to easily move OS and programs over to SSD? Or is there an open source free one anyone recommends?

I really need somewhere advice and suggestions.

Thanks,
Wade

 

[flowrider]

^^^^The SSD acts just like any other drive (HDD). It's just a lot faster. You can clone (I use Disk Utility or TechTool Pro) or install an OS from the Web or an installer USB, again just like any other drive.

An 500 GB 850 EVO for $100.00 is a STEAL!

Of Topic, I spent 2 years in Japan in '59, '60 and '61. I was in the USAF, and yes, I'm an old guy. When I was over there the exchange rate was ¥360 to the $.

Lou

 

[h9826790]

An 500 GB 850 EVO for $100.00 is a STEAL!

I his picture, the 850 Evo is 120G, not 500G.

 

[DPUser]

You don't need the multi mount unless you schlep your Mac around. My solution was to move the (unused) optical drive to the lower optical bay and use it as a shelf, upon which I have four SSDs resting (two connected to a PCIe SATA card, two internal optical SATA), three of which are powered via a splitter connected to one of the optical power ports.

 

[Rootarty]

You don't need the multi mount unless you schlep your Mac around. My solution was to move the (unused) optical drive to the lower optical bay and use it as a shelf, upon which I have four SSDs resting (two connected to a PCIe SATA card, two internal optical SATA), three of which are powered via a splitter connected to one of the optical power ports.

Ummm...as I only vaguely understand what you're suggesting, I wonder if you know of any links showing the process or videos?

I already have the multi-mount and have a USB Mac drive to use in it's place when I need to read a disc. So in my case, I assume it makes sense to just go ahead and use it.

----------

I his picture, the 850 Evo is 120G, not 500G.

Yes the Samsung drives in my photo are 120GBs. That makes them not such a bargain I guess, but the reliability is the main reason I'd choose them over Toshiba etc, right?

----------

^^^^The SSD acts just like any other drive (HDD). It's just a lot faster. You can clone (I use Disk Utility or TechTool Pro) or install an OS from the Web or an installer USB, again just like any other drive.

An 500 GB 850 EVO for $100.00 is a STEAL!

Of Topic, I spent 2 years in Japan in '59, '60 and '61. I was in the USAF, and yes, I'm an old guy. When I was over there the exchange rate was ¥360 to the $.

Lou

Yes, the Samsungs are not 500GB. But you still recommend them simply for their reliability over Toshiba etc.

You were in Japan at a good time, Lou...or so I've heard. And the exchange rate, I can't imagine it. Instant wealth !

I don't think Apple gave me a disc with the OS when I got this Mac Pro so I don't have a copy of the OS, I believe. I know Mavericks was free but that was upgrading a existing OS version, right?

I am not in any super-rush to have the OS migration to SSD complete fast, I need to go the cheapest route, hopefully free tools. I wasn't aware an OS could be migrated, I thought you needed a disc or purchase a new copy of the OS in some way.

 

[initialsBB]

I am not in any super-rush to have the OS migration to SSD complete fast, I need to go the cheapest route, hopefully free tools. I wasn't aware an OS could be migrated, I thought you needed a disc or purchase a new copy of the OS in some way.

If you boot into a recovery partition or off a USB stick, you can use Disk Utility to clone one drive onto another. Carbon Copy Cloner is a great (not free, but cheap) utility that can help with this as well.
With any version of OS X 10.6.8 and up you can update to Mavericks and Yosemite for free. Now that Yosemite is out though, I think the only way of installing Mavericks is if you already have it in your "purchases" tab of the Mac App Store, but I may be mistaken.
As for your plan on splitting everything up to 4 120GB drives... You really will be more limited by CPU rendering than SSD read/write speeds. For example I just upgraded a couple Mac Pros at work last week, putting a single Samsung 850EVO drive onto a Sonnet Tempo card as an After Effects media/cache/render drive, and a smaller SSD in the optical bay for boot and apps. Unless you're using 4-5K DPX or RED RAW this is ample speed. We render mostly 1080-2K ProRes and it's working great for us.
If you're not in a hurry keep an eye out for Amazon for example, they regularly run promos on Samsung SSDs.

 

[Rootarty]

Formatting new SSDs and using Optical drive externally?

Ok, guys, I have mounted two Samsung SDD 850 EVOs into an OWC multi mount and put them into the optical drive bay. Turned on the MacPro and ‘The disk you inserted was not readable by this computer’ message popped three times,once for each new SSD.

My question is should I initialise the SSDs before installing the drivers or after? Or doesn’t it matter?

Now that I’ve taken out my optical drive, I have no way of installing the drivers by the CD that came with the SSDs. I thought I could use my old Apple Superdrive external disc drive that came with my bold Mac Air but it is incompatible. Is there a way to use the internal disc drive externally through an adapter cable (SATA to USB?) ?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Wade

 

[Macsonic]

Ok, guys, I have mounted two Samsung SDD 850 EVOs into an OWC multi mount and put them into the optical drive bay. Turned on the MacPro and ‘The disk you inserted was not readable by this computer’ message popped three times,once for each new SSD.

My question is should I initialise the SSDs before installing the drivers or after? Or doesn’t it matter?

Now that I’ve taken out my optical drive, I have no way of installing the drivers by the CD that came with the SSDs. I thought I could use my old Apple Superdrive external disc drive that came with my bold Mac Air but it is incompatible. Is there a way to use the internal disc drive externally through an adapter cable (SATA to USB?) ?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Wade

Hi Wade. You will need to initialize your SSDs by formatting them as "Mac OSX Journal Extended" so you could install your OSX. You don't have to use the optical drive to install the OS. Just create a bootable USB thumb drive. Here are some instructions on creating a bootable thumb drive:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9pCWE2ahNY

The above video is for Mountain Lion bootable drive but you can also choose Mavericks or Yosemite. With Yosemite, I read somewhere that it disables the trim enabler but it can be enabled. I don't use Yosemite so I am not too familiar with this.

 

[Rootarty]

Cloning OS and selected Adobe programs possible?

Hi Wade. You will need to initialize your SSDs by formatting them as "Mac OSX Journal Extended" so you could install your OSX. You don't have to use the optical drive to install the OS. Just create a bootable USB thumb drive. Here are some instructions on creating a bootable thumb drive:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9pCWE2ahNY

The above video is for Mountain Lion bootable drive but you can also choose Mavericks or Yosemite. With Yosemite, I read somewhere that it disables the trim enabler but it can be enabled. I don't use Yosemite so I am not too familiar with this.

Thanks for the tip, Macsonic. If I just use a bootable USB flash drive to put the Mavericks on one of the newly installed SSDs, that's good, but is it possible that I clone my current OS (Mavericks) along with some selected programs I have installed like Adobe After Effects etc?

I have heard of SuperDuper and Carbon Copy Cloner. Wondering is these or other software would do this?

 

[Macsonic]

Thanks for the tip, Macsonic. If I just use a bootable USB flash drive to put the Mavericks on one of the newly installed SSDs, that's good, but is it possible that I clone my current OS (Mavericks) along with some selected programs I have installed like Adobe After Effects etc?

I have heard of SuperDuper and Carbon Copy Cloner. Wondering is these or other software would do this?

Welcome Rootarty. Yep you can clone your current OS Mavericks to your new SSD using either SuperDuper or Carbon Copy Cloner. I always make it a habit to keep a clone of my main boot drive as backup. Like if I installed a new software or update and encountered problems or glitches, I can easily switch back to the former state of my OS drive. That's the advantages of having internal drives in the Mac Pro.

 

[Rootarty]

Welcome Rootarty. Yep you can clone your current OS Mavericks to your new SSD using either SuperDuper or Carbon Copy Cloner. I always make it a habit to keep a clone of my main boot drive as backup. Like if I installed a new software or update and encountered problems or glitches, I can easily switch back to the former state of my OS drive. That's the advantages of having internal drives in the Mac Pro.

Is it possible to clone only the OS and my Adobe programs from my original HDD to my new SSD using SuperDuper or CarbonCopyCloner? My HDD in 1TB but my SSD is only 120GB.
I only want the operating system and Adobe programs on the SSD.
And I don't want to got to the bother of reinstalling all my Adobe software, especially all the plug-ins I use in After Effects.

Is it also possible to leave all my other programs on the old HDD, or do they need to be with the OS on the SSD to be used?

 

[Macsonic]

Is it possible to clone only the OS and my Adobe programs from my original HDD to my new SSD using SuperDuper or CarbonCopyCloner? My HDD in 1TB but my SSD is only 120GB.
I only want the operating system and Adobe programs on the SSD.
And I don't want to got to the bother of reinstalling all my Adobe software, especially all the plug-ins I use in After Effects.

Is it also possible to leave all my other programs on the old HDD, or do they need to be with the OS on the SSD to be used?

Hello. Yep you can clone only your OS and Adobe programs or any other applications from your 1TB HDD to your 120g SSD as long as the total file size from your 1TB is less than 120gb. You can try leaving your other apps in your old HDD. As long as your HDD also resides in the same Mac Pro, there should be no problem. I also tend to avoid reinstalling Adobe software as far as I know, there is a limit to how many times you deactivate and activate the Adobe softwares. I think, if I am not mistaken, the limit is 21 times to activate. Beyond that I think you will need to call Adobe customer support for addition permissions to activate.

 

[Rootarty]

Use internal optical drive as an external drive?

Hello. Yep you can clone only your OS and Adobe programs or any other applications from your 1TB HDD to your 120g SSD as long as the total file size from your 1TB is less than 120gb. You can try leaving your other apps in your old HDD. As long as your HDD also resides in the same Mac Pro, there should be no problem. I also tend to avoid reinstalling Adobe software as far as I know, there is a limit to how many times you deactivate and activate the Adobe softwares. I think, if I am not mistaken, the limit is 21 times to activate. Beyond that I think you will need to call Adobe customer support for addition permissions to activate.

I think I successfully cloned my system, OS and apps only, but I have to fully check out everything works. Thanks for the guidance.

However......I took my Optical Drive out of my Mac Pro mid2010 (5,1) to put in two SSDs into the bay using an OWC Multi-mount. Now I've realised my Appple Super drive is not compatible with my Mac Pro apparently. Though I read you can hack ytour OS to make it accept the SuperDrive.

Personally I'm not so comfortable with that so I asked OWC what I can do and they suggested these two products.

http://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/VL2STOPTU2/

http://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/MRSFW8U3/

One is over double the price of the other but I don't know the difference between the two. All I want to be able to do is occasionally play a DVD or read a data CD on my MacPro. And burn to CD/DVD possibly.

I thought I could just buy some kind of SATA to USB adapter cable....but I can't seem to identify such a cable....

Can anybody advise me on how to do that as cost effectively as possibly?

Thanks in advance, Wade

 

[h9826790]

Just to add "mbasd=1" to the Kernel Flags in com.apple.Boot.plist, then the external super drive will work again (after boot into the OS).

My wife had this drive for her MacBook air, and I use this method to give my 4,1 an extra super drive.

No complicated hacking procedure required, and works like a charm.

 

[Rootarty]

Just to add "mbasd=1" to the Kernel Flags in com.apple.Boot.plist, then the external super drive will work again (after boot into the OS).

My wife had this drive for her MacBook air, and I use this method to give my 4,1 an extra super drive.

No complicated hacking procedure required, and works like a charm.

Hi. Thanks and I appreciate the reassurances but I have no idea how to do that. I really could screw something up. Would it be possibly to post a link to a guide or a video?

 

[h9826790]

Hi. Thanks and I appreciate the reassurances but I have no idea how to do that. I really could screw something up. Would it be possibly to post a link to a guide or a video?

The easiest method is to open terminal and type

sudo nvram boot-args="mbasd=1"

then enter your password. Done! (restart required)