Who plans to stay on El Cap for a very long time?

[MacBAir]

Hi.

I recently read some very in depth reviews regarding the latest OS, 10.12. Since my main browser is Chrome, I use Android and (so far) I have no particular interest in music subscription, new photos features and Siri (I'm Portuguese), I don't see a single useful feature that is compelling enough for me to update.

Don't get me wrong, it's not like I don't know how many advantages Safari has, or how superior iOS and the latest iPhones are, or what is coming with the latest file-system:

• Safari is more responsive, has better features that integrate really well with the OS and provides battery life. All of this while also looking better. BUT: Chrome is compatible with everything (Facebook Messenger web calls!), has better adblock plus support, Chromecast and is cross platform;
• For me, despite having a rooted Android with adaway and being familiar with apps like the xposed framework, iOS is now superior on any single relevant metric and it integrates better with OS X, making OS X even better if you have an iPhone. BUT: My Android device does what I need, at this time. I bought a (then, 2012) 300€ phone for 100€ 4 years ago (huge promotion), that is now unlocked with a great plan. With Adaway and updated google play services, it is good enough, still.
• The new filesystem will take at least another year in order to be ready, and most likely will be available for El Cap SSD users, specially due to the number of machines that can't be updated to Sierra.

So, there's not a single feature that is there waiting for me. And even if Sierra is blazingly fast and provides a lot of low level improvements from version 10.12.0, 10.11.6 is really fast and rock solid (pun) on my Sandy Bridge Macbook Air.

Apple is really focus on the Mac users that are also iOS users, and that makes all the sense in the world. It's not like they are removing features to the rest of (admittedly fewer and fewer) us, Mac + Android users.

Now, what about Google providing decent features to desktop platforms? Anyway, that's another conversation.

I think that IF I update to Sierra, it will be almost 1 year from now, due to security. What about you?

 

[Crazy Badger]

Having run the developer preview on my 2011 iMac and installed the final GM last night, I can't think of a single reason not to upgrade. I've had very few issues (a few incompatible apps at the beginning, which were fixed with beta releases) and think 10.12 during the preview releases has been more stable and faster than any version of 10.11 I used.

The fact is isn't packed full of new features is fine by me. I just want a stable and quick OS which is what I've had so far with macOS. I'll be installing it on my MBAs as soon as it's available in the App Store.

 

[bent christian]

Apple's unreliable ability to support its own legacy hardware makes updating to 10.12 sound like a risky proposition to me. Until there is some major productivity upgrade to the OS, I am staying with El Capitan. Many peoples' Mac problems would be solved if they stayed with the OS the machine was designed for, updating only as necessary.

 

[MacBAir]

Apple's unreliable ability to support its own legacy hardware makes updating to 10.12 sound like a risky proposition to me. Until there is some major productivity upgrade to the OS, I am staying with El Capitan. Many peoples' Mac problems would be solved if they stayed with the OS the machine was designed for, updating only as necessary.

You say this based on what? Every single data point available to us says that the OS keeps getting more reliable and with less bugs.

Of course, because of the growing installed userbase, a smaller percentage of people having issues might mean a bigger number of people having issues. Still a tiny, vocal (as expected) minority.

Can you please justify the bolded part?

 

[bent christian]

You say this based on what? Every single data point available to us says that the OS keeps getting more reliable and with less bugs.

Of course, because of the growing installed userbase, a smaller percentage of people having issues might mean a bigger number of people having issues. Still a tiny, vocal (as expected) minority.

Can you please justify the bolded part?

You must be new here. Browse the forum for a little while.

My Late 2015 runs fine, but it has always had this odd blinking on startup. This does not inspire confidence. It feels like I am running some janky old version of Linux.

 

[MacBAir]

You must be new here. Browse the forum for a little while.

My Late 2015 runs fine, but it has always had this odd blinking on startup. This does not inspire confidence. It feels like I am running some janky old version of Linux.

You are the one that has to be new year. EVERYBODY that has problems are extremely vocal and will complain, and complain and complain. It will be on every thread, any forum, etc.

People without issues aren't vocal. The % of users with issues are dropping and fast. But a smaller percentage can mean more people, due to a growing installed base. That's life and is in no way related with a "drop" in software quality.

Ah, a "blinking" on startup that feels like you are running an old Linux version. Everything makes sense, now. Crap quality.

 

[bent christian]

You are the one that has to be new year. EVERYBODY that has problems are extremely vocal and will complain, and complain and complain. It will be on every thread, any forum, etc.

People without issues aren't vocal. The % of users with issues are dropping and fast. But a smaller percentage can mean more people, due to a growing installed base. That's life and is in no way related with a "drop" in software quality.

Ah, a "blinking" on startup that feels like you are running an old Linux version. Everything makes sense, now. Crap quality.

You sound confused.

 

[MacBAir]

You sound confused.

I was being sarcastic. You don't realize that the issue is 100% you and/or your machine and/or your situation. A tiny sample that in no way is related with any sort of decline.

It's a friggin' issue. Tough luck.

Find what it is, fix it yourself. If not, make Apple fix it under guarantee or pay it yourself.
Feel like it isn't worth it? Never buy a Mac again, like any sane person, and complain.

But again, it's an isolated and most likely irrelevant case.

My 5 year old computer is better than ever, running 10.11.6, the best OS I have ever used.

 

[b0fh666]

im running a hackintosh now so that's the one that needs to be updated first. if it works, i'll update the macs as well.

 

[Crazy Badger]

My 5 year old computer is better than ever, running 10.11.6, the best OS I have ever used.

It's not as good as 10.12

 

[MacBAir]

im running a hackintosh now so that's the one that needs to be updated first. if it works, i'll update the macs as well.

How's the experience of running an hackintosh? Doesn't every update put some butterflies in your belly?

It's not as good as 10.12

And why is that? Maybe I will try it, but I'm going to try and resist.

 

[b0fh666]

How's the experience of running an hackintosh? Doesn't every update put some butterflies in your belly?

it works surprisingly well (and it is an HP notebook). I expected more problems, kinda disappointing

 

[Crazy Badger]

Right from 10.12 DP1 I've felt like macOS was more stable and faster than previous versions, and this is testing on a 2011 iMac (albeit with lots of RAM and a SSD). Ask yourself this. If there aren't really any new features making you want to upgrade, what have Apple been doing for the last 12 months?

I think they've been trying to iron out bugs and tweak things to release the most stable and fastest version given they've rebranded it this year. I'd compare it with 10.6, which didn't really provide anything new, but is generally considered to be one of the best OSX releases ever. I think macOS will be thought of in the same way.

Entirely your decision though if you want to stick with 10.11, but I'll also be updating my 2010 and 2013 MBA's as soon as macOS is available from the App Store.

 

[dogslobber]

.

My 5 year old computer is better than ever, running 10.11.6, the best OS I have ever used.

I agree. 10.11.6 is very mature and solid and while Sierra betas were interesting I didn't see any must have feature. All the fiddley things involving the iPhone or iWatch are just powder puff to me. The only interesting W.I.M.P. change I see is universal tabs.

I might just stay with el cap while it's supported with security updates. My employer's computer runs el cap with apps so until they're upgraded and supported then I certainly wouldn't upgrade my home machines.
[doublepost=1473358281][/doublepost]

. If there aren't really any new features making you want to upgrade, what have Apple been doing for the last 12 months?

Probably upgrading Darwin to make internals better. Optimizations to things like the network stack or making wifi work seamlessly on 2012 iMacs. Under the hood changes, as we say.

 

[theorist9]

Every single data point available to us says that the OS keeps getting more reliable and with less bugs.

I've never see any statistics for this; could you please share them?

Given that I've not seen statistics, I can only speak anecdotally. This has been my experience:

On my current machine (mid-2014 MBP, 11,3), which shipped with Yosemite, I noticed an improvement in stability in going to El Cap.

However, I have found both Yosemite and El Cap to be relatively unstable (kernel panics, freezes, etc.) compared to what I had on my prior machine, which was Snow Leopard (and, as I recall, those prior to Snow Leopard, which I used on three different older Macs, were also quite stable). So, based on my personal experience, the current OS's aren't as stable as Snow Leopard and prior. I also recall Snow Leopard being very well-regarded within the Mac community, with many power users like myself being very pleased with its features, performance, and stability.

I can't speak to those between Snow Leopard and Yosemite, since I stuck with Snow Leopard on my old machine, preferring it to the subsequent OS's.

 

[bent christian]

Ask yourself this. If there aren't really any new features making you want to upgrade, what have Apple been doing for the last 12 months?

They has been working on new features that don't interest me. I don't have any iCloud accounts. We are Android users, not an iPhone in the house. I don't want my storage "optimized" by Apple. I don't care about Siri. El Capitan is fine. People get themselves into trouble by thinking they need a new OS every year. My system is not broken. Why would I want to try to fix it?

 

[Crazy Badger]

I have an iPhone but don't use iCloud storage and rarely use Siri on the phone so won't be using on macOS (nothing wrong with Spotlight)

That said, I do still think 10.12 is a Snow Leopard OS and will be well regarded for years to come.

 

[MacBAir]

I've never see any statistics for this; could you please share them?

Given that I've not seen statistics, I can only speak anecdotally. This has been my experience:

On my current machine (mid-2014 MBP, 11,3), which shipped with Yosemite, I noticed an improvement in stability in going to El Cap.

However, I have found both Yosemite and El Cap to be relatively unstable (kernel panics, freezes, etc.) compared to what I had on my prior machine, which was Snow Leopard (and, as I recall, those prior to Snow Leopard, which I used on three different older Macs, were also quite stable). So, based on my personal experience, the current OS's aren't as stable as Snow Leopard and prior. I also recall Snow Leopard being very well-regarded within the Mac community, with many power users like myself being very pleased with its features, performance, and stability.

I can't speak to those between Snow Leopard and Yosemite, since I stuck with Snow Leopard on my old machine, preferring it to the subsequent OS's.

The data point were those share by Craig on the Gruber podcast.

As you can see by the snow leopard thread here on Mac Rumors, it was panned by being a pathetic money grab attempt, with no features and a huge amount of bugs and issues, and it would kill Apple soon. See it for yourself.

Only the last update is well regarded, by a much smaller user base than we have now.

 

[theorist9]

The data point were those share by Craig on the Gruber podcast.
.

"Craig on the Gruber podcast" is a bit cryptic! Do you mean this one?:https://www.macrumors.com/2016/06/18/schiller-federighi-gruber-video/
If no, can you supply a link?
And if yes, can you indicate where in that 1.3-hour podcast the data to which you refer were presented?

Only the last update is well regarded....

Perhaps there were some problems with the earlier updates, but I wouldn't have encountered them since I typically wait until a later update to upgrade from the previous OS. Most of my time on Snow Leopard was with the final update.

it was panned by being a pathetic money grab attempt....

That doesn't seem like an impartial view, given that (a) it did offer significant under-the-hood improvements, and (b) previous OS upgrades were $129, yet with SL Apple only charged $29.

 

[Fishrrman]

I've found El Capitan to be the best OS release since 10.8 Mountain Lion.
(Aside: I still use ML as my "main OS" on my late-2012 Mac Mini).

When I finally move up from ML to something newer, I'm thinking it will be El Capitan for the foreseeable future...

 

[flowrider]

I couldn't respond to your pole, because my response was not listed. I have already transitioned to Sierra. It's been my main OS since PB4. I'm now on the GM. Really only one issue remains for me - The F12 key does not open either of my optical drives. Other than that, it just plain works and all my software works. IMO, it's fast with few, if any, bugs, a GREAT OS. I'm on a souped up cMP 5,1. I also use a MBA when I travel, that's still on El Cap, and will be updated to Sierra on or about the release date. I will still keep El Cap as a backup on 2 of my SSDs, but, for me, Sierra it is.

Lou

 

[JamesMike]

I have been very pleased with El Capitan.