Why Apple is low quality and not for professionals or people who work

[Silly John Fatty]

Just added notes and marks to hundreds of pages of PDFs over the last week in iBooks.

I noticed the app behaved weirdly … (sometimes closing the document and reopening it automatically. I didn't have this under iOS 16 - ever!)

Didn't think too much about it.

Now I noticed that only the work I did today was saved. I've been doing 40 pages a day on average so hundreds of pages of work was lost. And you can't do anything about it - it's all in the cloud. Things like these have been happening more and more often with Apple products. You simply can NOT rely on them! Apple isn't reliable! I was EXPECTED to do a specific work and take care of it, now I’m here starting at 0 again???! Wow!! That’s so IRRESPONSIBLE of this company, if you’re doing something of value or important, DON’T use Apple!!! It’s way too risky, you can’t rely on them. Who is going to pay me for all the work that was lost? How am I going to be presenting my work to my partners next week? We have a fricking schedule, I don’t know if apples realises this, but there’s people who actually work on this planet and need WORK devices, not shiny devices to look at!

The other day, my iPhones volume was going to maximum automatically all the time while I was in a room full of people in a conference with important people. I couldn't lower it, it would instantly go up again … holy! Thank god nothing was open or being played accidentally, people would have looked at me. That's another example of the unreliability of Apple products. Having trust in Apple products is VERY dangerous! Don't trust them, they're not safe, they’re not on your side in crucial moments.

- Apple is not high quality, it is high garbage
- Apple is not for people who work. It is for Instagram "influencers".

I've been an Apple user for 25 years. The only thing that keeps me from changing to someone else is 1) the dependency of the micro-universe and 2) the lack of options because of the oligopolic situation on this market.

I am glad to hear the European Union is slowly dismantling monopoly-like companies like these. At this point the only thing I want to see is them being ripped apart! Free way for the free market and hopefully goodbye cheap companies like Apple!

Edit: Oh and what I noticed is that dictatorship is part of apples culture. I remember I complained about something like this before and they banned my post on their support forums.

Now while searching for my issue with iBooks and the disappeared notes and highlights, I stumbled across quite a lot of topics with the same issue on apples support forums, and quite some of them had been edited by moderators (it said „reformulated by moderator“). They did this to me as well (including deleting entire topics/posts) and want to keep it all super happy and as if we were in paradise.

The harsh truth is that it’s a hardcore dictatorship. You can’t vent your issues with their products to them. That’s, from a business perspective, absolutely irrational because business philosophy is rationalism and rationalism means being open to all informations. You want to get ALL infos there is out there!

What they’re doing is saving money in development and quality but selling their products for more money: https://www.statista.com/statistics/267728/apples-net-income-since-2005/

Their net income has kind of almost doubled from 2020.

This company is cancer and needs to be shut down as soon as possible. Their products are cheap to make and easily substitutable if the government breaks their monopoly position.

Apple is trash.

 

[BrianBaughn]

Maybe someone else that's doing "work" in Apple Books can help you out…that is…if there's anyone else in the world doing "work" in Apple Books.

 

[Silly John Fatty]

Maybe someone else that's doing "work" in Apple Books can help you out…that is…if there's anyone else in the world doing "work" in Apple Books.

Probably nobody is doing that, that's the problem. And that's why I mentioned Apple isn't made for work. Pages isn't made for work. Numbers isn't made for work. iCloud isn't made for work. None of this is reliable. The problem with the monopolistic or oligopolistic situation of these companies, is that the alternatives aren't better.

Do you seriously think Adobe is better? I am using Adobe too for work, but it's crap. It's at least as low quality as Apple products. Anyone who has minimal IT and programming skills can feel that their apps are bloated. I'm not even talking about the mess Adobe Apps create sometimes. And bloated means irrational. And irrational means it's useless for serious purposes.

But I'd be curious to hear what you use for reading, signing, marking documents.

 

[DMG35]

“Apple is garbage, but I still use their devices.”

Ok.

 

[seggy]

I can't help feeling that this take is like my mom complaining Notes isn't enabing her to run her empire

True, Apple hardware and what typically runs on it is more for people who have most of their brain cells in their eyes than anywhere else, but that does not actually preclude software that runs reliably for business-class projects on MacOS. Expecting the 'pack-in' bundle to perform like that might be a bit of a mistake.

And Adobe's solutions works just fine for documentation (tho for my uses I use Bluebeam most of the time but do turn to Adobe for markups and signing). I assume you aren't trying to run it on some superannunated piece of junk?

 

[BrianBaughn]

Probably nobody is doing that, that's the problem. And that's why I mentioned Apple isn't made for work. Pages isn't made for work. Numbers isn't made for work. iCloud isn't made for work. None of this is reliable. The problem with the monopolistic or oligopolistic situation of these companies, is that the alternatives aren't better.

Do you seriously think Adobe is better? I am using Adobe too for work, but it's crap. It's at least as low quality as Apple products. Anyone who has minimal IT and programming skills can feel that their apps are bloated. I'm not even talking about the mess Adobe Apps create sometimes. And bloated means irrational. And irrational means it's useless for serious purposes.

But I'd be curious to hear what you use for reading, signing, marking documents.

It doesn't matter what I use since I don't spend more than an hour on signing/marking documents per quarter. I've got no solution for that!

I will say that I have that iCloud documents crap turned OFF. I didn't understand how it worked when they released it (compared to the easy-to-figure-out Dropbox) and didn't trust it. I still don't. Other than email (and that's backed up locally, daily) the only cloud service I'm relying on (for storage) is Google Photos on my iPhone…and I know how to download those when I want to.

For important stuff I also try to avoid apps that take perfectly independent files and then use their own database format to store/access them.

 

[jz0309]

do you believe that you used the right tool for the job? imho you did not. yet you blame Apple ...

This company is cancer and needs to be shut down as soon as possible. Their products are cheap to make and easily substitutable if the government breaks their monopoly position

can you explain where Apple has a monopoly? Even the EU doesn't go that far and "only" calls them "gatekeeper"

 

[Egk]

I agree to a degree with Apple’s software. I don’t trust any of the magic syncing solutions or apps, I have been burned by it too much.

The programs where I can save files I trust, because I have control. Anything that syncs? Nope! Notes hasn’t been syncing reliably on 3 devices ever. Bookmarks in Safari won’t sync either.

I don’t have any reason to trust anything on their platforms. I do have stuff in iCloud etc. but overall I always have backups anyway.

 

[Ste_S]

Meanwhile I do work on macOS with cloud documents on Apple's own suite, Office 365 and Google's cloud document apps with no problems 🤷‍♂️

Cloud docs are great for working collaboratively.

 

[TruthAboveAllElse]

Not sure why people are defending Apple here. Highlights and notes should not disappear in Books. That they did is not acceptable, regardless of using it for "work" or not.

 

[MrMacintoshIII]

Has iCloud’s “documents crap” turned off. Loses all work.

 

[klasma]

Yes, iCloud tends to be unreliable. In general, iOS/iPadOS devices aren’t well-suited for power users.

 

[Silly John Fatty]

“Apple is garbage, but I still use their devices.”

Ok.

You must have skipped this part on purpose:

I've been an Apple user for 25 years. The only thing that keeps me from changing to someone else is 1) the dependency of the micro-universe and 2) the lack of options because of the oligopolic situation on this market.

I can't help feeling that this take is like my mom complaining Notes isn't enabing her to run her empire

True, Apple hardware and what typically runs on it is more for people who have most of their brain cells in their eyes than anywhere else, but that does not actually preclude software that runs reliably for business-class projects on MacOS. Expecting the 'pack-in' bundle to perform like that might be a bit of a mistake.

And Adobe's solutions works just fine for documentation (tho for my uses I use Bluebeam most of the time but do turn to Adobe for markups and signing). I assume you aren't trying to run it on some superannunated piece of junk?

No, it's a M2 Mac Pro, pretty much maxed out. Spent near 4000 on it, without things like keyboard, mouse, display, which is another 2000 🙃 I had a Mac Pro before that, it cost I believe almost 10,000. Believe me when I tell you it wasn't better, it was actually worse.

Adobe has terrible software by the way and any programer will tell you so. Adobe for someone like me isn't far from that software you're saying is for people with most of their brain cells in their eyes. From my point of view, Adobe is nearer to Notes for Mac and your mom, than to professional software 🥲 (nothing against your mom btw, I'm sure she's adorable).
Adobe software just like to play a little more "expert feeling", because that's what its customers want to feel like. In reality it's poor quality, mal-functioning, mal-programmed software. 🤢

It doesn't matter what I use since I don't spend more than an hour on signing/marking documents per quarter. I've got no solution for that!

I will say that I have that iCloud documents crap turned OFF. I didn't understand how it worked when they released it (compared to the easy-to-figure-out Dropbox) and didn't trust it. I still don't. Other than email (and that's backed up locally, daily) the only cloud service I'm relying on (for storage) is Google Photos on my iPhone…and I know how to download those when I want to.

For important stuff I also try to avoid apps that take perfectly independent files and then use their own database format to store/access them.

I can understand you can't relate then - iCloud is a terrible service. Forget the syncing and all of that, it's complete garbage and they never got it right. It has NEVER worked! And I've used it since it has existed.

I bought some new Apple devices and thought I'd give it a chance, start using it more intensely. The only way to use it intensely is for work. Well, it was a mistake. I lost all my work.

do you believe that you used the right tool for the job? imho you did not. yet you blame Apple ...


can you explain where Apple has a monopoly? Even the EU doesn't go that far and "only" calls them "gatekeeper"

What would be the right tool in your opinion? I don't think there's any good options. And that again is a certificate of intellectual poverty for our society. We have no good software and software becomes worse and worse. This trend will become even bigger because it's growing full speed and we're in the middle of this evolution, but my hope is that AI will kick out people out of software development and finally create something of quality for the entire world. Hopefully it happens soon.

Not sure why people are defending Apple here. Highlights and notes should not disappear in Books. That they did is not acceptable, regardless of using it for "work" or not.

The sad thing is that it's one of those questions on Apple Support forums that has hundreds of people that marked it as "I have this problem too" (and this is about iBooks, so hundreds of people is a lot here), and it still hasn't been fixed for ages. I think it's definitive, I can't take Apple's "integration", their syncing and cloud services seriously anymore. They lost me this time! (and they're starting to lose me in other fields for other reasons too)

 

[seggy]

wow. just wow.

this is so full of 'i know better myself' that I am going to leave it completely alone. you do you lol

 

[Apple_Robert]

Sounds to me like you were using the wrong tool for the job at hand. If you had been using the right tool, you could have been saving your work. All iBooks is is a ebook reader. What kind of serious work involves using an ebook reader?

 

[nmart1214]

I love the way you boil down all work to the work that you do and therefore “Apple bad”.

Apple devices aren’t literal magic, no matter how much the fanboys love huffing that copium. But you also need to understand that they do more than enough for multiple industries.

 

[MBAir2010]

Im professionally using PAGES to type 5 hours a day, several times a week
without a hitch.

 

[Silly John Fatty]

Sounds to me like you were using the wrong tool for the job at hand. If you had been using the right tool, you could have been saving your work. All iBooks is is a ebook reader. What kind of serious work involves using an ebook reader?

That's like: You have a car, and surely it's not made for a race track like a Formula 1, but it's still made to brake, right? You don't expect it to have the best brakes and the best steering when it's at its maximum speed, but you expect it to brake when you drive it the way it's meant to be driven - right?!

Well, I drove this app the way it was meant to be driven, and it didn't brake! That's my problem. I wasn't trying to use Apple Books to land a rover on Mars, I was using it the way it was meant to be used, which is reading documents and marking them 🥲

But either way - what would you recommend? I have office work I was given and which I need to read myself into, and I will need to give my expertise on it at some point. It's hundreds of pages on which I've made highlighting to compress the material to the core. My highlighting is not just simple highlighting, but it has a system depending on the colours. The use colours mark links between different things I've noticed or seen and I need these when I'll be going through the material with my colleagues. The much worse thing I've lost are my comments. I comment different things in these documents, ask questions, rephrase things, give ideas, etc. All of that is lost and that's the worse part.

When speaking of organisation and efficiency, using a PDF reader to highlight things and write comments is the most rational decision for a work like the one I described. Of course I could have separate documents in which I write my notes, etc. But it's less efficient. Well, unless the software used doesn't work 🙄 This "innovation" sucks, it just doesn't work. It's not even innovation, it's technically just connecting two devices and Apple fails at it. Apple sucks! All they know to do is make nice boxes.

Im professionally using PAGES to type 5 hours a day, several times a week
without a hitch.

But you probably make Postcards or something, right? Pages doesn't have a fraction of the functions Word has, you can't even take it seriously. I work in a field, if you come up with PAGES people are going to give you very weird looks, and you won't be able to share and modify documents together with people.
That's why in any professional segment of a certain level, Word is what is being used.
The problem is: I can't take Word seriously either. It's a mess. And that's because Microsoft is a mess. It's a too big company and should be split in 20 smaller, independent companies.

 

[rocketpig]

Outside of a few specific exceptions, Apple builds consumer-grade software, not professional software. Don’t expect free software to be a viable replacement for your professional needs.

 

[Silly John Fatty]

Outside of a few specific exceptions, Apple builds consumer-grade software, not professional software. Don’t expect free software to be a viable replacement for your professional needs.

You are right about this, but you'd expect (at this price) that the software has a certain quality and level. But it's really just toys to look at and create birthday cards I guess.

 

[MBAir2010]

But you probably make Postcards or something, right?

I am currently writing/typing five fiction novels consisting of 400 or more pages each.
seems to me that the pages software is better than windows what ever they call that
which I previously used in 2019-20 with hitches while creating content for web pages for a internet company in NYC.

while 'working at home doing the "lockdown"
I would type on Pages, export PDF or word then email the text to the designer.

so yes
a writing professional can use pages successfully,
sorry about this!

 

[boss.king]

Probably nobody is doing that, that's the problem. And that's why I mentioned Apple isn't made for work. Pages isn't made for work. Numbers isn't made for work. iCloud isn't made for work. None of this is reliable. The problem with the monopolistic or oligopolistic situation of these companies, is that the alternatives aren't better.

Do you seriously think Adobe is better? I am using Adobe too for work, but it's crap. It's at least as low quality as Apple products. Anyone who has minimal IT and programming skills can feel that their apps are bloated. I'm not even talking about the mess Adobe Apps create sometimes. And bloated means irrational. And irrational means it's useless for serious purposes.

But I'd be curious to hear what you use for reading, signing, marking documents.

I’ve done work in Pages, Numbers, and Keynote for over a decade now. Adobe apps are bloated but still the industry standard in most creative industries.

As for using the Books app for work, yeah, I don’t know what you were doing but I definitely wouldn’t have used that. I don’t think Apple has ever positioned it as a professional app. Even Preview would have been a better choice.

 

[Silly John Fatty]

I am currently writing/typing five fiction novels consisting of 400 or more pages each.
seems to me that the pages software is better than windows what ever they call that
which I previously used in 2019-20 with hitches while creating content for web pages for a internet company in NYC.

while 'working at home doing the "lockdown"
I would type on Pages, export PDF or word then email the text to the designer.

so yes
a writing professional can use pages successfully,
sorry about this!

I believe you. For simple typing it is good enough and I've been using it too before I returned to Word many years ago.

I am writing three "books" too right now, they are reports, resumes and definition books of approximately 100 pages each. I need returning elements in them such as chapter names and the likes, so it's not just plain text but it has some sort of more complex programing behind it, and Pages doesn't have any of these capabilities.

The definitions book has elements sorted alphabetically automatically (and when you do that over 100 pages it's starting to bug quite a little and act unpredictably. I had similar problems like those I had with Apple Books here). On top, it has, linked to that, an automatically updating table of contents as well as an automatic bibliography. This is a quite complex document and Word is the go-to professional software worldwide.

I always sort of make these things work, but I'd be lying if I said I'm not terribly angry at Word (the same applies to Excel). And I have no colleague that doesn't have this opinion. These applications are terribly poorly coded, they are so big they are not thought through, nobody is paid to see through the entire thing and get an overview so huge and overcrapped the code must be.

These apps are full of contradictions that make them crash and bug all the time as soon as it's more than just a birthday card with flowers and bees, because nobody is apparently being paid to do that (and in the end, I hope AI will fix all of the software quality crisis we are having right now). These apps are a mess behind their nice graphic user interface. Microsoft is a huge and rich company but it's not investing in Word that much because it's world leader anyway when it comes to text-writing software. Why would they invest? They have no serious opponents.

Apple on the other hand doesn't invest in Pages, because it's just there to look at. The reason Pages exists is to make your Mac look not too empty when you first start it. Pages is like a chair in a furnished house you buy, it's there to make your house look like there's already some life in it make you feel cozy. Pages is there to make people feel cozy on their Mac. 😂

I’ve done work in Pages, Numbers, and Keynote for over a decade now. Adobe apps are bloated but still the industry standard in most creative industries.

As for using the Books app for work, yeah, I don’t know what you were doing but I definitely wouldn’t have used that. I don’t think Apple has ever positioned it as a professional app. Even Preview would have been a better choice.

Preview doesn't exist on iPad or iPhone. When I leave my office, I continue working from my mobile devices on the go. Everything needs to work together and update in real-time.

Plus, when you use iBooks on a Mac, it does open your documents (PDFs or whatever) in Preview. So this isn't just a Books problem, but a Preview problem. On Mac, Books is not an app from which you can read anything, it just lists your files there. It's like an inventory. I use it for organization, but it's terrible for that too. The only reason I use it is the syncing with my iPhone and iPad. For other files I only use iCloud Drive, but it has only preview-functionalities and doesn't have the few additional editing features iBooks has to offer.

Adobe is bloated and the same buggy crap. I'm using it too (sadly). It's a terrible company. I've had so many issues. And forget the cloud side once more, it's unusable. I use Adobe Scan and other features because I need to scan documents on the go all the time and they get uploaded to the cloud and I can edit them in Adobe Reader on my Mac, which is absolute garbage. 🙃 So don't even get me started on what problems I had with Adobe, because it's even lower quality than Apple.

 

[astrorider]

Many people (most?) have lost their work at some time or another, in free "consumer" apps, expensive "professional" apps, Apple apps, Microsoft apps, and every other kind of app. Some at the most inopportune times. Unfortunately, glitches in computers/software are par for the course. If you're not backing up your work, now is a good time to start.

 

[boss.king]

Preview doesn't exist on iPad or iPhone. When I leave my office, I continue working from my mobile devices on the go. Everything needs to work together and update in real-time.

Plus, when you use iBooks on a Mac, it does open your documents (PDFs or whatever) in Preview. So this isn't just a Books problem, but a Preview problem. On Mac, Books is not an app from which you can read anything, it just lists your files there. It's like an inventory. I use it for organization, but it's terrible for that too. The only reason I use it is the syncing with my iPhone and iPad. For other files I only use iCloud Drive, but it has only preview-functionalities and doesn't have the few additional editing features iBooks has to offer.

Adobe is bloated and the same buggy crap. I'm using it too (sadly). It's a terrible company. I've had so many issues. And forget the cloud side once more, it's unusable. I use Adobe Scan and other features because I need to scan documents on the go all the time and they get uploaded to the cloud and I can edit them in Adobe Reader on my Mac, which is absolute garbage. 🙃 So don't even get me started on what problems I had with Adobe, because it's even lower quality than Apple.

Ah, gotcha, I didn’t realise you were using it on a phone.

I still just use Pages, Numbers, etc on my iPad when working on the go, but I’ve never bothered to try them on a phone. And when it comes to PDFs I usually use GoodNotes, but I rarely do any serious work on my iPad.

I can’t say I’ve ever experienced the issues you describe when using Preview, even when reviewing and marking up multi-hundred page docs. Maybe I’ve just been lucky, or maybe you’ve been unlucky. I can imagine it must be frustrating, but my experience couldn’t be more different from yours.