Why Apple Is Wrestling With Relevance

[maflynn]

Here's an article regarding yesterday's event. Its fairly negative towards apple but yet I think there are some points to the argument
tomshardware

The Apple TV (ATV) is another such product where I believe that someone must have sabotaged Apple. A black $99 hockey puck to rent TV shows? There is so much wrong with this idea that you have to wonder if this was really Apple that has come up with it.

Someone who has the money to rent extra TV shows, probably already has a decent TV, a cable box, a surround sound system, speakers and one or two game consoles. Do you really want to add another box below your TV, even if it is just the size of a hockey puck? Especially if your game console already accesses video content? And how likely are you to spend $99 on a device that comes with the promise that comes with the only promise that you will spend more money in TV show and movie rental fees every month? $99 for a device that basically enables you to access iTunes, Netflix , Mobile Me, YouTube and Flickr. They must be kidding.

I've been struggling with this concept and to be honest the writer bascially nails why I think the apple tv won't be a huge winner

The Shuffle changes from a rectangle to a square and gets the clickwheel back, because people missed it, Jobs said. Alright. It looks like something we have seen before, but I guess if Apple says it is new, then it is new. But why, if people like the clickwheel, would you remove it from the Nano?

Again a good point, the nano w/o a click wheel looks too small to effectively use it.

 

[dmr727]

I've been struggling with this concept and to be honest the writer bascially nails why I think the apple tv won't be a huge winner

See, I think this is a case where tech geeks seem to think that Apple is releasing this stuff specifically for them. So when Apple's device doesn't make sense for them, they erroneously assume it won't make sense for anyone. Somehow it's hard for them to believe that not every living room has a PS3 or 360.

I own an Airport Express. $99 just to stream music to my stereo. If I'm willing to do that, why the heck wouldn't I spend $99 to stream not just music, but video as well? Oh, and I'm a Netflix customer - so now I get to stream videos on demand to my entertainment unit without having to hook my MPB to it. At $99, it's a no brainer, and even though I have no intention of spending a dime on downloadable content - it's perfect for what I'd use it for.

 

[OllyW]

I've been struggling with this concept and to be honest the writer bascially nails why I think the apple tv won't be a huge winner

Though it doesn't interest me personally, I think video rentals are the way forward for iTunes and the Apple TV. Blu-ray is outselling digital download purchases by a fair margin (and DVD sales are out of sight in comparison) but when it comes to renting, downloads and video on demand are beating Blu-ray rentals by almost 4:1.

Convenience is winning when you want to watch something just once, quality wins when it's one you want to keep.

 

[Melrose]

The majority of films I watch I only watch once, which is why Netflix is great. If it's really good, I go buy the DVD.

If I was any more of a TV nut, Apple TV would make sense for me, if only for Netflix watching.

 

[0098386]

Yup, this is the problem I'm having. Why would I want to buy another device for my TV when other devices I have already stream content? I can also record with them (PS3), burn them to discs (HDD/DVD burner), play games (Xbox, Wii, PS3).

I guess if you somehow you're a geek and don't own the above devices then it would be a great device.

 

[chown33]

Somehow it's hard for them to believe that not every living room has a PS3 or 360.

This.

And not every game console is connected to the living-room TV. Sometimes the grownups want to watch a movie while little Johnny and Jeffy can play video games in the playroom.

 

[miles01110]

Blu-ray is outselling digital download purchases by a fair margin (and DVD sales are out of sight in comparison)...

Depends on what you mean by "outselling." How do you factor in Netflix streaming? Netflix, I would imagine, streams more content in a day than BluRay discs sell in a week.

 

[maflynn]

See, I think this is a case where tech geeks seem to think that Apple is releasing this stuff specifically for them. So when Apple's device doesn't make sense for them, they erroneously assume it won't make sense for anyone. Somehow it's hard for them to believe that not every living room has a PS3 or 360. .

I would agree with that sentiment in general but in this case with the apple tv, I'm not so sure its applicable. Take for instance the lack luster performance of apple tv so far. Apple's addition through subtraction, with the removal of the hard drive only magnifies the issues further, in that other products have more utility, i.e., ps3, comcast dvr box, etc.

Convenience is winning when you want to watch something just once, quality wins when it's one you want to keep.

Yes and so how long of a wait is tolerable for someone to rent a tv or movie. Not everyone is on uber-fast broadband. I think the lack of an HD to download and view later reduces the convenience

 

[OllyW]

Depends on what you mean by "outselling." How do you factor in Netflix streaming? Netflix, I would imagine, streams more content in a day than BluRay discs sell in a week.

That's video on demand. Outselling in monetary value not number of units.

If you are interested in the figures, have a read of this report for the USA in the first half of the year.

 

[dmr727]

I would agree with that sentiment in general but in this case with the apple tv, I'm not so sure its applicable. Take for instance the lack luster performance of apple tv so far.

That's a good point. And certainly just because it's the right device for me doesn't mean anyone else will buy the thing. But at $99, I think Apple has a price point here that'll appeal to more people than the previous generation did.

 

[renewed]

If I was any more of a TV nut, Apple TV would make sense for me, if only for Netflix watching.

This is why I'm getting it.

 

[Brien]

Yup, this is the problem I'm having. Why would I want to buy another device for my TV when other devices I have already stream content? I can also record with them (PS3), burn them to discs (HDD/DVD burner), play games (Xbox, Wii, PS3).

I guess if you somehow you're a geek and don't own the above devices then it would be a great device.

Yeah, but most of us own one - if not all 3 - consoles and maybe a Blu-ray player beyond that. Most of the newer TVs can stream netflix, and my AVR has Pandora, so the Apple TV isn't for me.

 

[Consultant]

Yup, this is the problem I'm having. Why would I want to buy another device for my TV when other devices I have already stream content? I can also record with them (PS3), burn them to discs (HDD/DVD burner), play games (Xbox, Wii, PS3).

I guess if you somehow you're a geek and don't own the above devices then it would be a great device.

Some people don't use consoles. And some consoles are fairly loud.

 

[Eidorian]

I guess if you somehow you're a geek and don't own the above devices then it would be a great device.

Does not compute.

Otherwise every TV and optical disc playback box is scrambling to support everything from Netflix to Skype. The differentiation being the hardware features like wireless adapters, etc.

 

[dmr727]

Yeah, but most of us own one - if not all 3 - consoles and maybe a Blu-ray player beyond that.

Most of who, though? Most of the people that read blogs on tomshardware, or any other tech blog for that matter? In that case I agree. But I'm not sure that Apple sees that segment of the industry as their primary customer base anymore.

I personally frequent tomshardware - it's a great site. And although I agree with the individual points of Mr. Gruener's article, I'm not sure that he understands that the AppleTV wasn't designed for him, nor likely 99% of his readers. Like you said, they already all have PS3s.

 

[Eidorian]

I personally frequent tomshardware - it's a great site. And although I agree with the individual points of Mr. Gruener's article, I'm not sure that he understands that the AppleTV wasn't designed for him, nor likely 99% of his readers. Like you said, they already all have PS3s.

Time for Apple to fight the it does everything PS3 with the AppleTV? That's a stretch even for Apple. I've been bombarded with PS3 commercials compared to the tumbleweed rolling around for the Apple TV.

Where does AppleTV standout besides being from Apple and the ecosystem feedback loop? Interoperability is becoming a relic unless you subscribe to a brand. That's enough to keep me away from many gadgets and devices. It's enough of a pain to be trapped in iTunes and OS X.

 

[DraziGuy]

Yea, I've been wondering myself about the new AppleTV's place. I wonder if they are trying to position themselves ahead of the changing landscape of broadcast television. I think as broadband hits more and more people, and as DRM issues get sorted out, the way we consume is going to change. Apple at least has a foot and most of a leg in the door if the world does shift that way.

Personally, the only reason I pay for cable every month is live sports broadcasting. The second the NHL gets their act together and makes every game available without blackouts and in near-HD or HD quality, I've got no reason for it. Everything else I watch, I could watch the next day after everyone else without feeling any ill effects.

I think there are alot of people ready for that reality, one where they decide when to watch, instead of watching when everyone else does. I think there's also a market for paying content creators directly, instead of through advertising. I can't even think of the last show I started watching due to anything but word of mouth. If I could directly pay a few bucks each to the 10 or show television creators making what I like, I'd be much happier than paying $80 every month to the cable company to pipe me in commercial filled television, 99% of which I have no interest in watching.

 

[DraziGuy]

Most of who, though? Most of the people that read blogs on tomshardware, or any other tech blog for that matter? In that case I agree. But I'm not sure that Apple sees that segment of the industry as their primary customer base anymore.

I personally frequent tomshardware - it's a great site. And although I agree with the individual points of Mr. Gruener's article, I'm not sure that he understands that the AppleTV wasn't designed for him, nor likely 99% of his readers. Like you said, they already all have PS3s.

It does get tough to remember that there is a self-selection bias in our groups. People who come here, Tom's Hardware, The Register, etc. are all NOT average consumers. We are the people who care enough about this stuff to read, research, comment and argue over it. The average consumer doesn't do any of this stuff. They just hear from their friend about this cool thing and go pick one up for themselves.

 

[miles01110]

That's video on demand. Outselling in monetary value not number of units.

So why is that not counted (or mentioned, even) in the figures you cited before? Why make a comparison between two segments of the same market without including the major third?

 

[dmr727]

Where does AppleTV standout besides being from Apple and the ecosystem feedback loop? Interoperability is becoming a relic unless you subscribe to a brand. That's enough to keep me away from many gadgets and devices. It's enough of a pain to be trapped in iTunes and OS X.

I don't like being trapped in the ecosystem either, but I figure that while I'm here, I might as well enjoy a swim in the pool. All my media is in iTunes, encoded in formats the ATV likes. So while it offends the geek in me to use a device that limits my options to the Apple universe, I also know that there's likely no other device on the market at the sub-$100 price point that'll accomplish the same things and integrate nearly as well with what I already have.

The average consumer doesn't do any of this stuff. They just hear from their friend about this cool thing and go pick one up for themselves.

I look at the people packed into an Apple store, and I'll bet the average person hasn't the faintest idea of what 1080p is, and even if you were to explain it to them, they'd likely drool on themselves. In the tech universe, we live in a world where it's unthinkable to not know these basic things, but the average consumer doesn't give a crap about any of it. Shiny? Check! Does it do (most) of what I want it to? Check! Is it cheap enough that I can impulse buy it without getting the wife all pissed off? Check!

 

[maflynn]

Some people don't use consoles. And some consoles are fairly loud.

Yes but there are also other solutions, some of which allow saving the content to a disk.

 

[OllyW]

So why is that not counted (or mentioned, even) in the figures you cited before? Why make a comparison between two segments of the same market without including the major third?

I did mention it.

downloads and video on demand are beating Blu-ray rentals by almost 4:1

 

[pooryou]

The title of this thread should be renamed to:

Why Tomshardware is Wrestling With Relevance

 

[maflynn]

The title of this thread should be renamed to:

Why Tomshardware is Wrestling With Relevance

Not really, its an active site with informative articles, their forums are the best for helping in the hardware arena.

Just because they publish an article that casts apple in a negative light doesn't mean they're evil or anything.

 

[pooryou]

Who said they are evil? They had their day and that was in the 90s.
The article is typical link bait. Shows the desperation.