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Why Apple lost my sale on new MacBook Pros tonight

macduke

macduke

macrumors G5
Original poster
Jun 27, 2007
13,495
20,609
Apple: We'll give you $790 for your Intel MBP!
Me: I was on the fence, let's do this! *SPENDS TWO HOURS CONFIGURING*
Apple: You can only use this towards a future purchase.
Me: Ok, what if I do the trade-in and wait and purchase this later with the 12 month financing?
Apple: Nope, you can't use a gift card with financing
Me: So instead of buying this $3500 computer, I could buy a $2700 computer and you would finance that?
Apple: Yep get wrecked basically.
Click to expand...

That's essentially how my chat sales support went down this evening. What a pile of crap. Add this to other frustrations:

8 core, 11 core, 12 core, 14 core, or 16 core CPU? 10 core, 14 core, 18 core, 30 core, or 40 core GPU? 8GB, 16GB, 18GB, 24GB, 36GB, 48GB, 64GB, 96GB, or 128GB RAM? And you can only mix and match certain things. Who the hell can figure this crap out anymore? It's a mess and a disaster trying to figure out what to get anymore. By far the most confused I've been since becoming a Mac user in 2008. And they've blown the die budget on beefing up a GPU that I will barely use unless they finally take Mac gaming seriously.

I want the M3 Pro which would be fine for my intermediate apps. Too bad I can’t get more than 36GB RAM, which I need for multitasking, because I tend to use a lot of apps at a time for my line of work. Right now I'm sitting at 48GB used of 64GB after a heavy multitasking day and probably should reboot soon. Ok then, I guess I'll get the M3 Max? Only 36GB of RAM standard, lol, or if you pay $800 freaking dollars you can get 96GB RAM. WAT. None of this makes sense, and 96 isn't even a multiple of 36. They are nickel and diming the ever living crap out of us right now for real.

BUT WAIT! You can bump it up to the M3 Max with the 16 cores instead of the 14 cores and you get 48GB RAM which also unlocks 64GB and 128GB but you can’t get 96GB. To add confusion to the matter, only some versions of the CPUs have higher memory bandwidth, and sub versions also have lower and higher tiers, which could affect GPU performance because the GPU shares RAM with the CPU over the high speed interconnect. And that’s also another reason I want more RAM is because it’s shared now! I need at least 64GB.

Not to mention this: Apple still starts their “Pro” machines with only 8GB RAM and only 512GB SSD for what is essentially a 2024 model. What a crock. Hell, my 2012 MBP had 16GB RAM and a 512GB SSD! And it is nearly 12 years old. That's like getting a computer in 2002 with the same RAM and storage as a computer from 1990. It's wild. And they also didn't include the newly released Thunderbolt 5 (which they used to be on the forefront of supporting) for future proofing. At this point I may as well wait for the M4 and hope that maybe it has OLED but I wouldn't be surprised if you only get OLED with certain chips or probably only the 16" and not the 14". Maybe it will also have a hole punch camera or a Dynamic Island for FaceID as well as Center Stage support and WiFi 7 for future proofing.

Pisses me the hell off. I guess I’m going to wait until 2025 now. I wanted the 0% financing because we suddenly needed a new car this year and new cars are VERY expensive nowadays (always bought used pre-pandemic but they're barely cheaper now and a bad deal), especially for a family sized SUV, so we’re making triple car payments so we can pay that down by the end of next year. When our car is paid off I’ll just buy this outright in 2025 when the M4 should be out and I’ll just go ham with the RAM and storage so I don’t have to mess with this for like 8 freaking years!
 
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macduke said:
That's essentially how my chat sales support went down this evening. What a pile of crap. Add this to other frustrations:

8 core, 11 core, 12 core, 14 core, or 16 core CPU? 10 core, 14 core, 18 core, 30 core, or 40 core GPU? 8GB, 16GB, 18GB, 24GB, 36GB, 48GB, 64GB, 96GB, or 128GB RAM? And you can only mix and match certain things. Who the hell can figure this crap out anymore? It's a mess and a disaster trying to figure out what to get anymore. By far the most confused I've been since becoming a Mac user in 2008. And they've blown the die budget on beefing up a GPU that I will barely use unless they finally take Mac gaming seriously.

I want the M3 Pro which would be fine for my intermediate apps. Too bad I can’t get more than 36GB RAM, which I need for multitasking, because I tend to use a lot of apps at a time for my line of work. Right now I'm sitting at 48GB used of 64GB after a heavy multitasking day and probably should reboot soon. Ok then, I guess I'll get the M3 Max? Only 36GB of RAM standard, lol, or if you pay $800 freaking dollars you can get 96GB RAM. WAT. None of this makes sense, and 96 isn't even a multiple of 36. They are nickel and diming the ever living crap out of us right now for real.

BUT WAIT! You can bump it up to the M3 Max with the 16 cores instead of the 14 cores and you get 48GB RAM which also unlocks 64GB and 128GB but you can’t get 96GB. To add confusion to the matter, only some versions of the CPUs have higher memory bandwidth, and sub versions also have lower and higher tiers, which could affect GPU performance because the GPU shares RAM with the CPU over the high speed interconnect. And that’s also another reason I want more RAM is because it’s shared now! I need at least 64GB.

Not to mention this: Apple still starts their “Pro” machines with only 8GB RAM and only 512GB SSD for what is essentially a 2024 model. What a crock. Hell, my 2012 MBP had 16GB RAM and a 512GB SSD! And it is nearly 12 years old. That's like getting a computer in 2002 with the same RAM and storage as a computer from 1990. It's wild. And they also didn't include the newly released Thunderbolt 5 (which they used to be on the forefront of supporting) for future proofing. At this point I may as well wait for the M4 and hope that maybe it has OLED but I wouldn't be surprised if you only get OLED with certain chips or probably only the 16" and not the 14". Maybe it will also have a hole punch camera or a Dynamic Island for FaceID as well as Center Stage support and WiFi 7 for future proofing.

Pisses me the hell off. I guess I’m going to wait until 2025 now. I wanted the 0% financing because we suddenly needed a new car this year and new cars are VERY expensive nowadays (always bought used pre-pandemic but they're barely cheaper now and a bad deal), especially for a family sized SUV, so we’re making triple car payments so we can pay that down by the end of next year. When our car is paid off I’ll just buy this outright in 2025 when the M4 should be out and I’ll just go ham with the RAM and storage so I don’t have to mess with this for like 8 freaking years!
Click to expand...
I mean with what you’re planning to spend may as well just get a maxed out one and have a 4th car payment. Bonus: maxing it out removes all decisions.
 
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In fact, it literally says they'll apply trade in credit to lower your monthly payments...


Screenshot 2023-10-30 at 11.32.01 PM.png
 
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Just take the finance then and sell the old Mac and then make an overpayment with the finance company, that's sometimes allowed? or make an extra payment on the car or mortgage.
 
M3 core counts and RAM amounts sound really odd after all these years of 2-Squared counting. They've either lost the bubble on product line management OR... They're surfing the yield curve of the new SOC fabs, selling everything they could possibly get produced, in whatever distinct category they could gin up.

The more they cram onto a die, the lower the yields, due to even most minor of fails in any number of primary, secondary or tertiary paths. Be insane to run so many unique SOC die fabs. I imagine they'd run one or two Higher-Pros and Max. Then they's slice up the Pros to make progressively Lower-Pros, slice up the s to make Upper Middle. Probably a laser cutting process they can do after production runs, when the yields vs. order predictions are recalculated for the period.

I'm balancing the need for tires, with the desire for a faster photo/3D rendering workstation. I don't always maintain a friendly relationship with good decisions; so, I'm think the sweet spot is a 14" Pro, 11/14/16 + 36mb RAM. Hopefully the extra RAM will keep the fewer GPU cores fed, and support a Windows VM or two. It won't take much to impress me, though - I currently run a 15" Intel MBP (so sick of goddam dongles). I use two or three 27" monitors plus the internal and more junk hanging off an old usb 1.1 hub. I suppose I should wait for an M2 when pricing collapses; however, Apple's planned obsolescence countdown is now pretty obvious, and a couple years more longevity costs what it costs. No sense carping about it, I guess; I'm in the teeth of it.
 
Trade in after the purchase. Apple will apply the credit to the card used to purchase the new Mac. Problem solved.

Edited to add: if you have to finance in order to justify the purchase, then you probably shouldn’t be buying. Trade-in value should not factor into whether or not you buy. If it has to, you are probably buying something you don’t need.
 
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I'll throw my hat in the right in agreement with the configuration: the cores and RAM (and unspoken memory bandwidth) are definitely all over the place.
 
Apple_Robert said:
Trade in after the purchase. Apple will apply the credit to the card used to purchase the new Mac. Problem solved.

Edited to add: if you have to finance in order to justify the purchase, then you probably shouldn’t be buying. Trade-in value should not factor into whether or not you buy. If it has to, you are probably buying something you don’t need.
Click to expand...
They specifically told me I couldn't do this.

Everyone is different. I'm fairly frugal with most things and a little spendy with high quality tech, although with Macs I tend to get a higher end version and keep for a long time. Most of my finances are tied up in retirement funds that I can't touch without penalty, and I don't touch my emergency high yield savings fund which can pay all of our bills for about a year. I also have funds that go into my children's college 529 plan which I can't touch without penalty, although I could divert contributions in any given month if needed, and same for my retirement contributions and monthly contribution to our vacation fund. And I'm currently paying triple car payments like I said to pay down debt faster as we had to unexpectedly make a new vehicle purchase. This is the first time I've ever had a car loan in my life and I'm in my late 30s.

I have enough free use cashflow each month that I could pay for this monthly without a trade-in, but like I said, I try to be frugal and conservative with my money and want to get a good deal. It was more about justifying buying this earlier than I had expected to. I try to keep Macs for 5-6 years. This is a bit shy of that. I thought they were coming out next year, per all the rumors. I will be using this machine daily for my job and personal use, so it makes me money.
 
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So, I ended up selling my MBP on Swappa for about $1000, so this ended up being a blessing in disguise as I got a couple hundred more. I just placed an order for this bad boy:
  • Apple M3 Max chip with 16‑core CPU, 40‑core GPU, 16‑core Neural Engine
  • 64GB unified memory
  • 2TB SSD storage
  • 14-inch Liquid Retina XDR display
Everything worked out in the end, except that I'm not getting it until December 7-14. This chip is WAY too powerful for what I do on a daily basis. I will occasionally get some use out of it, but mostly in bursty applications like astronomical RAW photo stacking, AI denoise and upscaling, panorama stitching, and sometimes longer processing like the occasional large Lightroom export. Sucks I had to order that just to get 64GB RAM. Makes me nervous to order 36GB when my daily iMac has 64GB (self-installed) and my usage is usually hovering around 60-70% and the RAM is shared with the GPU on Apple Silicon. I multitask a lot of apps and tabs at a time. I could've gotten the less powerful M3 Max, but then you only get 36GB and have to pay a ton to get 96GB of RAM as the only option which is stupid. I'd rather have a faster chip and 64GB RAM for several hundred less. This should work for me for the rest of the decade.
 
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I was playing around configuration, my ideal setup would be the following. Even though I would have been fine with 64 GBs of RAM, the 36 GBs at the starting price just seems absurd for what you are paying. I'm starting to play with VM's again, but it will be a while before I consider this on a Mac. Its looking like waiting one generation behind when these hit the refurb store is the best strategy.


Screenshot 2023-11-06 at 7.51.42 PM.png
 
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Mr. Dee said:
I was playing around configuration, my ideal setup would be the following. Even though I would have been fine with 64 GBs of RAM, the 36 GBs at the starting price just seems absurd for what you are paying. I'm starting to play with VM's again, but it will be a while before I consider this on a Mac. Its looking like waiting one generation behind when these hit the refurb store is the best strategy.


View attachment 2308506
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Did you end up purchasing this configuration? If so, what do you think? I'm torn between this and the 16 core 64GB ram option.
 
I'd go 16 core 64GB (which is actually cheaper) unless you're working with a known RAM hog application. 96 GB is a lot, and you lose quite a bit of performance with the 14 core (almost 20% of the P-cores and 25% of the GPU cores). Apple should have offered an intermediate RAM option on the 14-core, but they probably wanted to push people to the 16-core.

There's no obvious configuration to get exactly 64 GB into the 6-channel 14-core, because 64/6 isn't a clean division. They could certainly have done 48 GB (8 GB/channel, same as the 64 GB option on the 16-core) or 72 GB (12 GB/channel, same as the 96 GB option on the previous-generation M2 Max). They might have even been able to do 60 GB (10 GB/channel). Any of those three would have been preferable to the 36-96 GB jump.
 
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danwells said:
I'd go 16 core 64GB (which is actually cheaper) unless you're working with a known RAM hog application. 96 GB is a lot, and you lose quite a bit of performance with the 14 core (almost 20% of the P-cores and 25% of the GPU cores). Apple should have offered an intermediate RAM option on the 14-core, but they probably wanted to push people to the 16-core.

There's no obvious configuration to get exactly 64 GB into the 6-channel 14-core, because 64/6 isn't a clean division. They could certainly have done 48 GB (8 GB/channel, same as the 64 GB option on the 16-core) or 72 GB (12 GB/channel, same as the 96 GB option on the previous-generation M2 Max). They might have even been able to do 60 GB (10 GB/channel). Any of those three would have been preferable to the 36-96 GB jump.
Click to expand...
Thank you. Definitely makes sense, so this is the route I will go. It's a lot of upfront money, but my topped out MacBook Pro 2014 has lasted me this long (nearly 10 years), so I'm sure this M3 max will be a killer laptop for at least 5. To be honest, if I could just update my current mac to the latest OSX, I would continue using it!
 
MikeX3 said:
Thank you. Definitely makes sense, so this is the route I will go. It's a lot of upfront money, but my topped out MacBook Pro 2014 has lasted me this long (nearly 10 years), so I'm sure this M3 max will be a killer laptop for at least 5. To be honest, if I could just update my current mac to the latest OSX, I would continue using it!
Click to expand...
Then continue to use your 2014 as it's possible with OpenCore Legacy Patcher....

Q-6
 
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MikeX3 said:
Did you end up purchasing this configuration? If so, what do you think? I'm torn between this and the 16 core 64GB ram option.
Click to expand...
Personally, I think the upgraded M3 Max 16/40 with 64GB of RAM is the better deal. A faster chip with 2 extra CPU cores and 33% more GPU cores is always going to be better than that increase in memory, especially when 64GB is a great amount to begin with.
 
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Mr. Dee said:
I was playing around configuration, my ideal setup would be the following. Even though I would have been fine with 64 GBs of RAM, the 36 GBs at the starting price just seems absurd for what you are paying. I'm starting to play with VM's again, but it will be a while before I consider this on a Mac. Its looking like waiting one generation behind when these hit the refurb store is the best strategy.


View attachment 2308506
Click to expand...
That is a crazy amount for a personal use computer, in my opinion. Speaking in general here...I think too many people on here get way too wrapped up in tech specs and end up buying way more than is needed and usually, it is under the auspices of "future proofing" when there is no such thing. It makes more sense to get what one needs today with the way tech is moving. That way, if your workflow drastically changes and or you want to update to the latest tech because of certain unneeded but, cool features, the out of pocket expense won't be so dramatic.
 
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Apple_Robert said:
That is a crazy amount for a personal use computer, in my opinion. Speaking in general here...I think too many people on here get way too wrapped up in tech specs and end up buying way more than is needed and usually, it is under the auspices of "future proofing" when there is no such thing. It makes more sense to get what one needs today with the way tech is moving. That way, if your workflow drastically changes and or you want to update to the latest tech because of certain unneeded but, cool features, the out of pocket expense won't be so dramatic.
Click to expand...
A lot of people here on the forum know I am notorious for keeping my devices past their expiry date. Anyway, happy with my M1 MBP.
 
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