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Why I feel the nMP is not over priced

miatadan

miatadan

macrumors regular
Original poster
Apr 23, 2006
102
19
Sudbury,ON , Canada
I looked into this comparison from apple store ( education )

Mac Mini with 16gb memory and 256GB ssd (note ssd is sata ) $1229
note: no thunderbolt 2

iMac 21" with 16GB memory and 256GB ssd - $1659
note: no thunderbolt 2

11" Macbook Air 1.3GHz 8gb and 128gb ssd - $1039
note: no thunderbolt 2

13" Macbook Air 1.3GHz 8gb memory and 128gb ssd $1139
note: no thunderbolt 2

13" Retina 2.4GHz Macbook Pro 16gb memory and 128gb ssd $1519
note: has thunderbolt 2 but memory soldered in


base model nMP quadcore with 16gb memory and 256gb ssd $2989


my complaint about Macbook Air is 8gb ram max/ no 16gb and no thunderbolt 2, memory soldered in

my complaint with Mac Mini is that ssd is sata not PCIe + no thunderbolt 2

so for less money than 2 base model Macbook Pro Retina with 16gb memory you can buy the nMP

Besides better performance, being able to get to parts is important

Dan
 
Yes, those who calls the MacPro overpriced is certainly not the targeted customers cause if you compare with PC manufacturers workstation, it's quite competitive.
 
The problem is that Apple doesn't offer a normal desktop computer (the fabled xMac), so people are forced into getting the Pro when the Mini isn't enough and you don't want an all-in-one iMac.

I wonder how many Mac Pro users really need ECC memory? Double-precision graphics? Dual graphics cards?

You are right, they are not the targeted audience, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were a large chunk of buyers, or even the majority of buyers.
 
Cause it's not

I look at the graphics cards, and I think even hard core PC gamers would possibly have to think about a system.

I know these might not be your gaming video cards. But for the power, peace and quiet, I think so.

I mean honestly I haven't heard much about the fan being noisy while the video cards crank away on some bootcamp pc game, but I haven't heard about being quiet yet either.

But I hear nothing but complaints from PC gamers (online/web) that the video cards are way noisy, when they crank.

These machines just don't look like they could really be noisy at all.

One thing I love is a quiet bedroom at night while projects are running.

Good luck!
 
I just bought a Dell T7610 with dual E5-2697 v2's for less than $6k with business discount. Similar horsepower in nMP form is about double.
 
ActionableMango said:
The problem is that Apple doesn't offer a normal desktop computer (the fabled xMac), so people are forced into getting the Pro when the Mini isn't enough and you don't want an all-in-one iMac.

I wonder how many Mac Pro users really need ECC memory? Double-precision graphics? Dual graphics cards?
Click to expand...
My feeling too, I don't know enough stuff to know about ECC ou double precision utility, but clearly the dual graphic cards is a total waste and that means a lot of money thrown to trash. It even makes wonder why it's not a system that allow couple them on a single display.

There's in fact many problems with its design:
- Not windows ready by having only one drive (no way I'll partition a SSD drive to share it between OSX and Windows).
- I'll have to add at least 3 to 4 new drives (windows/backup/backup/complement) and this will be crap I won't know where put it instead of inside a tower.
- I'll have to add a DVD support, one more stuff to put garbage on my desk.
- The lack of NON hyper modern connections will cause me a lot of troubles to manage the migration.

Clearly this Mac Pro isn't for me. Alas there's no other solution if I want stick to a dual usage OSX/Windows.

ActionableMango said:
You are right, they are not the targeted audience, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were a large chunk of buyers, or even the majority of buyers.
Click to expand...
I think each have different reasons, myself the problem is there no other choices:
- The Mini isn't an acceptable solution vs my current Mac Pro.
- The imac is just involving the exact same problems than this new Mac Pro and it's an unacceptable solution because of the forced display (using a Apple 30" and I don't need better just more or less as big).
- For obvious reasons I don't need a MacBook like (unacceptable screen and keyboard).

So I have only only choice, this new Mac Pro which is a weird solution for me and it's not about the price.

I was waiting since a long time new Mac Pro and I'm in face of a wall. Well I hope some time will allow make me look at the problem differently but for now I'm in an impasse.
 
The ECC and Registered RAM is needed to make this a true server platform. The Mini make great little server, it's actually an amazing amount of processing in a very compact and highly energy efficient form. The only problem is lacking ECC ram eliminate it from being placed in data critical spots in the architecture.

The need is there, the nMP is an excellent solution as both a workstation as well as a mid range server with 64GB RAM and 12 processing cores. The biggest problem most data centers have today are energy efficiency. None of them were built for the kind of heat modern servers put out, if you're ever in one, you'll see most racks being about half full. And the noise pollution of regular servers :eek: I'm constantly amazed the engineers who work in those places don't go deaf, or nut...

With the nMP and something like what the folks at MacStadium (where I colocate my mini) are building, a single rack has the concentrated power of 270 mac pro. They're high energy efficiency and low heat output, and the wind tunnel effect of the thermal core make them great for hot/cold aisle data center design.

I think Apple might actually be making a play at the enterprise cloud processing clientele here. If it doesn't take off, they lose absolutely nothing, but if it does, it'll open them to a fairly lucrative market and they can claim another We Changed The World! stripe.

I think the Enterprise servers adoption of the nMP will be at least equivalent or very competitive compared to the number that get used at workstations. Current the oMP are virtually never used as servers because of the size.
 
Server with 2 high end graphic card? It doesn't make much sense. And for Workstation enterprise usage it's hardly the target at least because there's to way to lock it.
 
rezwits said:
One thing I love is a quiet bedroom at night while projects are running.

Good luck!
Click to expand...

Working out of your bedroom in general seems like it would be extremely unpleasant. I would not want to sleep that close to where I work.

iizmoo said:
The ECC and Registered RAM is needed to make this a true server platform. The Mini make great little server, it's actually an amazing amount of processing in a very compact and highly energy efficient form. The only problem is lacking ECC ram eliminate it from being placed in data critical spots in the architecture.
Click to expand...

If you're talking about mission critical servers, the mini also lacks redundant power supplies. Just adding registered ram wouldn't bridge the gap there.
 
iizmoo said:
I think the Enterprise servers adoption of the nMP will be at least equivalent or very competitive compared to the number that get used at workstations. Current the oMP are virtually never used as servers because of the size.
Click to expand...

Zero chance of this.
 
thekev said:
If you're talking about mission critical servers, the mini also lacks redundant power supplies. Just adding registered ram wouldn't bridge the gap there.
Click to expand...

Redundancy is built into having the infrastructure distributed across multiple systems. This also eliminate most of the need for redundant power supplies. In any servers environment, your individual server always has the chance of completely burning out, there's no preventing that. The server ram is there to prevent bit error as a method of data corruption.

I'm thinking the nMP attached to some external storage would make a pretty good mid range DB server.
 
iizmoo said:
Redundancy is built into having the infrastructure distributed across multiple systems. This also eliminate most of the need for redundant power supplies. In any servers environment, your individual server always has the chance of completely burning out, there's no preventing that. The server ram is there to prevent bit error as a method of data corruption.

I'm thinking the nMP attached to some external storage would make a pretty good mid range DB server.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. In really critical areas it's still typical to have redundancy wherever possible. I don't know that ECC ram would grossly improve adoption rates of that hardware.
 
More info

beaker7 said:
I just bought a Dell T7610 with dual E5-2697 v2's for less than $6k with business discount. Similar horsepower in nMP form is about double.
Click to expand...

Any chance of some more specs info on the purchased machine and how much discount you got from Dell?

Not calling you out - but interested on what else is in the box as that's $5550 worth of processors for $6k?
 
miatadan said:
I looked into this comparison from apple store ( education )
[...]
Besides better performance, being able to get to parts is important

Dan
Click to expand...

It's competitively priced in the professional and server side market of computing. However, for regular hardware like Apple's regular store, it isn't terribly overpriced.
 
Frong said:
There's in fact many problems with its design:
- Not windows ready by having only one drive (no way I'll partition a SSD drive to share it between OSX and Windows).
- I'll have to add at least 3 to 4 new drives (windows/backup/backup/complement) and this will be crap I won't know where put it instead of inside a tower.
- I'll have to add a DVD support, one more stuff to put garbage on my desk.
- The lack of NON hyper modern connections will cause me a lot of troubles to manage the migration.
Click to expand...

I understand that the radical changed in the nMP upsets many current owners of MP but this is to be expected from Apple especially since they hardly do any real updates on the tower MacPro for a long time (no TB, no USB 3, no Blu-ray), so it's kinda within expectation that the upcoming big update of the nMP will be really radical, and would upset many current owners.

Just look at FCP X, they have improved a lot since the first release, some say they have the best multicam in the industry, yet many are still not convinced and not switching back. I personally believe that considering how old the FCP is, implementing new features or making it more intuitive will be very hard unless someone press the reset button and start fresh.

Regarding your issues:
1 - Is 512gb not enough? As you could get a 1TB SSD and split it, and keeping your data/non active projects in an external Thunderbolt SSD/HDD (I'll be doing this except my nMP will mostly come with 256GB SSD only)
2 - Chances are someone will create a case to compliment the nMP in a few months time, I'm speculating here but I'll be surprise if I dont see external HDD casings to compliment the nMP in the coming 6 months.
3 and 4 - Apple has done this before and nothing to be surprised at since they are known for throwing out standards in favour of better ones.
 
beaker7 said:
I just bought a Dell T7610 with dual E5-2697 v2's for less than $6k with business discount. Similar horsepower in nMP form is about double.
Click to expand...

Please fill us in on how you got this deal. I don't want to call BS but it sounds highly dubious. The 10 core offering on the T7610 page is close to $9000 so I'm guessing the dual 12 core is $10k minimum. Not that I can find where to even configure a 12 core option because Dell and HP like to have the most confusing shops around.

I realize that there are substantial discounts given on the list price, but even if we're talking $10k for the machine that would put it at a %40+ discount and that doesn't sound right at all.

Unless you completely watered down the other components. But I'm still skeptical. Sorry, don't mean to offend.
 
handsome pete said:
Please fill us in on how you got this deal. I don't want to call BS but it sounds highly dubious. The 10 core offering on the T7610 page is close to $9000 so I'm guessing the dual 12 core is $10k minimum. Not that I can find where to even configure a 12 core option because Dell and HP like to have the most confusing shops around.

I realize that there are substantial discounts given on the list price, but even if we're talking $10k for the machine that would put it at a %40+ discount and that doesn't sound right at all.

Unless you completely watered down the other components. But I'm still skeptical. Sorry, don't mean to offend.
Click to expand...

Business discount through their enterprise group is about 38%.
 
Frong said:
Server with 2 high end graphic card? It doesn't make much sense. And for Workstation enterprise usage it's hardly the target at least because there's to way to lock it.
Click to expand...

I know a few businesses who have ordered nMP's for serious Windows workstation evaluation. The only PITA is no Win 7 support. Having set one up on bootcamp 8.1 Pro and used equivalent PC models I can confirm it will certainly give single cpu Dell and HP workstations serious competition with its performance, as well as a quarter of the size, half the energy consumption and a fraction of the noise.
 
Gav Mack said:
I know a few businesses who have ordered nMP's for serious Windows workstation evaluation. The only PITA is no Win 7 support. Having set one up on bootcamp 8.1 Pro and used equivalent PC models I can confirm it will certainly give single cpu Dell and HP workstations serious competition with its performance, as well as a quarter of the size, half the energy consumption and a fraction of the noise.
Click to expand...

Interesting, now why are those people not posting up a specviewperf benchmark test :D

Btw, what's the major diff between 8.1 Home and 8.1 Pro? Generally looks the same, 7 Pro used to have Win XP Mode which is not available in 8.1 Pro, so why go for Pro then?
 
wheelhot said:
Interesting, now why are those people not posting up a specviewperf benchmark test :D

Btw, what's the major diff between 8.1 Home and 8.1 Pro? Generally looks the same, 7 Pro used to have Win XP Mode which is not available in 8.1 Pro, so why go for Pro then?
Click to expand...

Media Center and possibility to join a domain.
 
wheelhot said:
Interesting, now why are those people not posting up a specviewperf benchmark test :D

Btw, what's the major diff between 8.1 Home and 8.1 Pro? Generally looks the same, 7 Pro used to have Win XP Mode which is not available in 8.1 Pro, so why go for Pro then?
Click to expand...

Lol - If I'd known you wanted that bench when I had the nMP trust me you would have had it :D

8 Pro has Hyper-V instead of XP mode, domain support and also the ability to downgrade to 7 Pro for free.
 
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