Why is the MBP so much more expensive?

[Music_Producer]

Just checked out http://www.dealnews.com and they had this:

"new: Dell Inspiron E1505 Core Duo 1.66GHz 15" Widescreen Notebook + printer for $729 after rebate
The Dell Inspiron E1505 Core Duo 1.66GHz 15" Widescreen Notebook with a free Dell 720 Inkjet Printer, Intel Core Duo T2300 1.66GHz 667MHz FSB processor, 15.4" 1280x800 widescreen LCD, 512MB DDR2 SDRAM, 40GB 5400 rpm Serial ATA Hard Drive, 8x dual-layer DVD burner, 802.11g wireless, Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005, and one-year warranty is still $979 at Dell Home. This $250 mail-in rebate lowers the price even further to $729. With free shipping, it's the least expensive Inspiron laptop we've seen with a Core Duo processor. "

So the MBP has a much bigger and better hard drive.. but geez.. this Dell has an 8x dual layer dvd drive.. the same 1.66 ghz (ok not that much of a diff from 1.83 ghz) core duo processors.. and the bloody thing comes with a printer.. for $729!!!


The MBP retailing at $1999.. ouch. I am a macintosh fan, but honestly I find the prices crazy. If the MBP was $1299.. imagine how many would sell. I'd gladly buy two .. one for my wife and one for my folks.. but $1999?

What do you guys think? I don't want the "But macs are made so beautiful and the thickness is so ..etc etc" I mean where is all that extra money going? $1999-$729 = design and mac os x premium? I see everyone here drooling about the 'packaging'.. is that worth the extra price? ("Oooooh look at the round cut-outs in the styrofoam.. damn they must have engineers working on even the packaging.. *bliss*")


I'm sick of buying ipods because they always crap out with that 'sad face' thing.. and Apple keeps sending me new replacements.. which crap out again in 2-3 months.

Everything's made in China, its not like the MBP's manufactured in the USA or Switzerland or something.. I mean, geez!

 

[kgarner]

Couple questions for you:

What's the resolution of the 15" Dell Screen?
Does it have Bluetooth?
How about Firewire?
DVI out?
Digital Audio in/out?
Does it have Gigabit Ethernet?
What's the video card?

That doesn't even include features (some might say gimmicks) like the following:

Backlit Keyboard
MagSafe Connector
Built-in iSight
Express Card Slot
and of course the dimensions and weight

MacBook Pros are not budget machines. They are machines loaded with all kinds of things that are either optional upgrades or not even available on other machines. For some those features are not required and so they are better served by a computer that doesn't include them and saves them money. For those who do appreciate them, the MacBooks are actually a very good deal.

 

[California]

Last night I saw a friend's new Toshiba Satelite with what looked like a 13.3inch screen, dvd burner, cool little speakers and fast processor for 1200 bucks. Nice and very light weight machine. Good price.

Yeah I, too, thought that Apple would be lowering prices to compete with Dell and the like. You didn't mention the built-in iSight -- but still, that should only put the machine up at about the 1200 buck level.

Apple, like all other companies in the world today, have to reckon with the fact that there is no information gap they can bank on anymore with consumer ignorance. They have to produce excellent products that are priced well -- or fail.

Sorry Apple, the internet has sped up the biz world.
Sorry Apple, it is not 1984 anymore --
We are smart and we expect you to be smarter.

 

[robbieduncan]

1) It's only a 1.67Ghz CPU, not a 1.83 like the slowest MBP

2) It's Intel Integrated graphics with no dedicated RAM vs an ATI X1600 Mobility with dedicated graphics RAM

3) That price is with the low resolution XGA screen. It costs $100 for a comparable screen to the MBP.

4) As noted the harddrive is small. It costs $75 to get a 80Gb drive.

5) It costs $49 to get bluetooth.

6) It costs $99 to get a similar battery.

So the real cost is now $1302 according to Dell's site.

Ok so the price is still a lot less, but it does not have the backlit keyboard. It does not have the magsafe connector. It only has 10/100 networking, not 10/100/1000. It does not have iLife. I'd say the MBP is actually not bad value.

It is also almost 50% thicker, .1 inches less wide, but .85 inches deeper and over half a pound heaver with the low capacity battery (so more than that heaver with a comparable battery).

 

[mark!]

Just checked out http://www.dealnews.com and they had this:

"new: Dell Inspiron E1505 Core Duo 1.66GHz 15" Widescreen Notebook + printer for $729 after rebate
The Dell Inspiron E1505 Core Duo 1.66GHz 15" Widescreen Notebook with a free Dell 720 Inkjet Printer, Intel Core Duo T2300 1.66GHz 667MHz FSB processor, 15.4" 1280x800 widescreen LCD, 512MB DDR2 SDRAM, 40GB 5400 rpm Serial ATA Hard Drive, 8x dual-layer DVD burner, 802.11g wireless, Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005, and one-year warranty is still $979 at Dell Home. This $250 mail-in rebate lowers the price even further to $729. With free shipping, it's the least expensive Inspiron laptop we've seen with a Core Duo processor. "

So the MBP has a much bigger and better hard drive.. but geez.. this Dell has an 8x dual layer dvd drive.. the same 1.66 ghz (ok not that much of a diff from 1.83 ghz) core duo processors.. and the bloody thing comes with a printer.. for $729!!!


The MBP retailing at $1999.. ouch. I am a macintosh fan, but honestly I find the prices crazy. If the MBP was $1299.. imagine how many would sell. I'd gladly buy two .. one for my wife and one for my folks.. but $1999?

What do you guys think? I don't want the "But macs are made so beautiful and the thickness is so ..etc etc" I mean where is all that extra money going? $1999-$729 = design and mac os x premium? I see everyone here drooling about the 'packaging'.. is that worth the extra price? ("Oooooh look at the round cut-outs in the styrofoam.. damn they must have engineers working on even the packaging.. *bliss*")


I'm sick of buying ipods because they always crap out with that 'sad face' thing.. and Apple keeps sending me new replacements.. which crap out again in 2-3 months.

Everything's made in China, its not like the MBP's manufactured in the USA or Switzerland or something.. I mean, geez!

Have you owned both? I know you are an Apple fan, but when you own a Dell & an Apple, Dell's generally cost more through it's life.
But anyways, the MacBook Pro is probably 23 inches thinner & isn't made of plastic...just cosmetic things like that. It also probably has 230432 flashing lights lit up like an airport (the real ones) just to tell you its working.

 

[miloblithe]

Part of the reality is the MBP fits into a slot within Apple's pricing structure. Apple sells its pro 15" laptops for roughly $2000.

Also, according to Dell's website, it's $100 extra to get the computer up to 1.83Ghz ($300 for 2.0Ghz).

It's $75 more for an 80GB 5400RPM HD.

$49 extra for Bluetooth.
$29 extra for remote control.

The Dell has no dedicated graphics card.
The Dell comes with a lower capacity battery.

And of course, fit and finish and software.

Not so hard to understand.

 

[treblah]

The MBP is priced higher so poor people can't afford them. Apple doesn't want just any riffraff using their machines.

They are priced higher due to actually having an R&D center. You know, to implement nutty ideas like backlit keys and the MagSafe.

 

[Crikey]

The CPU is slower, the screen has a lower resolution, the hard disk is slower, the feature set is completely different, and you can't figure out why "the least expensive Inspiron laptop we've seen with a Core Duo processor" costs less than a MacBook Pro? And by the way, why are BMWs more expensive than Volkswagens? It makes no sense!

If you're killing iPods every 2-3 months, and Apple keeps replacing them, you should count your blessings. Try that with a "Dell DJ player", or whatever they're called. Good product support isn't cheap -- especially, it seems, when supporting "problem" users. My first iPod lasted 4 years, and it only died because I screwed up and got it soaked. The 60GB replacement is working great so far.


Crikey

 

[aristobrat]

I'm sure that Dell selling a bazillion more systems a year than Apple does earns them (Dell) the ability to buy components at a cheaper rate than Apple.

 

[Music_Producer]

Have you owned both? I know you are an Apple fan, but when you own a Dell & an Apple, Dell's generally cost more through it's life.
But anyways, the MacBook Pro is probably 23 inches thinner & isn't made of plastic...just cosmetic things like that. It also probably has 230432 flashing lights lit up like an airport (the real ones) just to tell you its working.

Thanks everyone.. quite a few points that I completely forgot about.. such as firewire, bluetooth, etc. and of course.. isight!

I have always owned macs.. but I do have an Averatec AMD Athlon 64 for my wife..from quite some time (about as old as my powerbook) and honestly, its not given any problems. Yeah its a little heavier obviously.. and battery life is not like my pb's.. but it cost $999.. almost $1000 less than my pb. So although I am a pro user, and I know how much more powerful the mbp is compared to other lappies.. when I saw the price difference, I was like "damn! why the hell would anyone wanna buy the mbp when they can get a dull for much much less??"

I figured that the average person doesnt care about firewire, bluetooth, isight, etc.. they could always connect that later if required.

I would never swap my pb for a dell or any other brand, but the point is.. they should have an mbp 'lite' (prob the ibook) which won't have the isight and the other goodies. If my wife saw a basic MBP without isight, firewire, etc.. but she could work on ilife and browse online, itunes, etc.. for $999, heck she'd buy it rightaway. So here's hoping that the Macbook (new ibook) really competes with other laptops.. not Dell, but toshiba, sony, etc. at the price range.

Once again, thanks for all those points people! I guess my reaction to the pricing was just an impulsive one.

 

[aristobrat]

Just checked out http://www.dealnews.com and they had this:

And for what it's worth, the fact that the Dell laptop was listed on dealnews.com says that it's a pretty crazy deal itself, even for Dell.

I figured that the average person doesnt care about firewire, bluetooth, isight, etc.. they could always connect that later if required.

Exactly. The average person isn't to whom Apple is marketing the MBP!

So here's hoping that the Macbook (new ibook) really competes with other laptops..

Amen! I'm very anxious to see what Apple has to offer with whatever the next rev of iBooks is called!

 

[Music_Producer]

If you're killing iPods every 2-3 months, and Apple keeps replacing them, you should count your blessings. Try that with a "Dell DJ player", or whatever they're called. Good product support isn't cheap -- especially, it seems, when supporting "problem" users. My first iPod lasted 4 years, and it only died because I screwed up and got it soaked. The 60GB replacement is working great so far.


Crikey

Yeah, I only wish you'd pay for the shipping fees Apple charges every time I have to send the bloody thing in! I might as well have gotten myself a new ipod!

Its not like I am the only one with that problem.. almost all my friends, and recently my dentist complained about it too! (the hard drive based ipods.. not the flash based ones.. im hoping those dont crap out that often)

And I wouldnt buy a Dell jukebox.. probably a sony mp3 player

 

[miloblithe]

This is probably along the lines of what we'll soon see from the MacBook:

CoreDuo with integrated graphics.
Clunkier and a lot cheaper than the MacBook Pro.

Add in the iSight, Bluetooth, and other Apple goodies, and you're looking at a $1000-1300 laptop.

 

[freeny]

Lets not forget all the apps that the mac comes standard with-

iDvd
iPhoto
iWeb
iMovie
etc...

If you add up what it would cost for comparable replacements im pretty sure the Mac price will be comparable if not better.

 

[coolchan]

They are priced higher due to actually having an R&D center. You know, to implement nutty ideas like backlit keys and the MagSafe.

Yesterday one of my mates was using he's Dell laptop in a dark room (he had shut the curtains). He was going to type something but he couldn't find the key because it's dark and he had to look really close at the keys to see the correct one. I laughed a bit to myself

 

[NeuronBasher]

Everyone is more expensive than Dell when they have sales/rebates. It's not just Apple. Compare the MacBook Pro against a Sony, Toshiba, Acer, Lenovo, or whatever major brand you want and I think that if you compare similar configurations in similar form factors that the MacBook Pro is reasonably competitive. It will be slightly more expensive than the PC vendors in most cases (but not all), but it's not nearly as bleak as it looks comparing it to the cheapie Dell systems.

Also factor in the Applecare cost vs. the other manufacturers extended warranties. Apple has a pretty good deal on Applecare.

 

[Edge100]

This is probably along the lines of what we'll soon see from the MacBook:

CoreDuo with integrated graphics.
Clunkier and a lot cheaper than the MacBook Pro.

Add in the iSight, Bluetooth, and other Apple goodies, and you're looking at a $1000-1300 laptop.

I'll bet you Apple manages to cram some sort of dedicated video card into the new iBook....ahem...MacBook. After all the brew-ha-ha over the Mini's integrated video, I would expect them to make a low-cost laptop that at least lets you run games at a decent speed (see the barefeats.come benchmarks on the Mini's GPU performance...BAD)

If you imagine that the iMac and MacBook are filling the same product level, and the iMac has a great X1600 vid card, I'd expect the MacBook to have something decent. The Mini and the MacBook don't compete at the same level, IMHO.

 

[wordmunger]

I'll bet you Apple manages to cram some sort of dedicated video card into the new iBook....ahem...MacBook. After all the brew-ha-ha over the Mini's integrated video, I would expect them to make a low-cost laptop that at least lets you run games at a decent speed (see the barefeats.come benchmarks on the Mini's GPU performance...BAD)

I'll take that bet. I think Apple has signed a deal with the devil with Intel and will be using integrated video in low-end laptops.

 

[Edge100]

I'll take that bet. I think Apple has signed a deal with the devil with Intel and will be using integrated video in low-end laptops.

Should be interesting to see. It'll come down to a business decision, I guess. Does Apple think that the lower cost associated with integrated video will be offset by people not wanting to purchase the machine because of it?

You might be right, though. I certainly wouldn't put it past them.

However, I just have this feeling that Apple knows that the iBook line is (often) for students who like to, occationally, play games. If you look at the old iBook, it has a better GPU than the old PPC Mini. I don't expect the MacBook to be the portable version of the Intel Mini.

 

[brikeh]

I'll take that bet. I think Apple has signed a deal with the devil with Intel and will be using integrated video in low-end laptops.

If that is indeed the case then...wow I´m happy im not in the market for an iBook/MacBook/iBookMac/IntelBookiProMini

 

[aristobrat]

After all the brew-ha-ha over the Mini's integrated video, I would expect them to make a low-cost laptop that at least lets you run games at a decent speed (see the barefeats.come benchmarks on the Mini's GPU performance...BAD)

Although I pray that the MacBook gets a decent video card, I also really hope that Apple's far enough into the design and production of the next iBook that it'd be too late in the cycle for any recent mini brew-ha-ha to cause them to make a major change like a video card!

If not, the next iBook won't be coming out until LATE this year...

 

[TBi]

I think the MBP is definitely over priced and I wouldn't pay the cost price for one. Thankfully I’ll be getting a friends staff discount to bring it down to a more manageable price for me. I'll save about 400 euro on the standard version which will buy me upgraded ram. Too bad I can't get the 256MB graphics card upgrade too though. Waiting for all the Rev. A problems to be fixed though (well only the noise one...).

If he still had the 27% discount i'd go with the upper end MBP though.

 

[fradac]

you know, i have heard this argument from many people, that other laptops are cheaper, i have seen these dells laptops at work, some of my co-workers got the inspiron, and honestly i would spend $1000 more to get a mbp because the build qualit looks like of something i would aqure in walmart.

but for those you like numbers here is a machine i tried to put together with similar specks to the $1999 MBP, added bluetooth, wireless, upgraded the screen (still lower res than the MBP) got a 80GB Sata Drive, etc.

the total comes out to $2047 and with a 20% off its $1637

But.. it still doesn't have a lot of things for instalce

- Dedicated Graphics Card
- DVI Port
- Optical Port
- Built in Camera
- Sudden Motion Sensor.
- Light sensors for keyboard and screen illuminations.
- No GIGE 10/100/1000 port (only 10/100)

And this comparison has just to do with Hardware, easily everyone has to see that infact the Dell is actually more expensive for the same feature set. Yes when they show the ad , they advertize the bare minimum machine, but when you factor in all these features its a different story.

 

[DougTheImpaler]

Thanks Fradac, people have a hard time realizing what the differences are, and you managed to add price parity and the Dell STILL comes up short.

 

[fradac]

Doug,

your welcome, i am amazed when so many people ask me the same question and i am baffled . one of co-workers has a Pentium M 1.7Ghz Based Dell Latitude D600. This is one of the thin laptop so it has no optical drive. the company bought this for $1700 about 6 months after i got my 15in PB.

And his has been stricken with problems. one of the most recent and quite Comical is that his wireless doesn't work if you dont have the power plugged in

it puts a smile on my face when everyone around complains how something is not working

cheers