Why no inexpensive fast AF-S prime for Nikon?

[rogersmj]

I love my D40. I think I made the right choice for my needs and budget, and I like much of what the Nikon SLR system has to offer. The one thing that I miss from not going with Canon though is that $75 50mm f/1.8 lens that pretty much every XTi owner seems to have. How is there not something comparable for Nikons? The Canon lens has an internal AF motor, just like Nikon AF-S lenses, so I'm sure someone could manufacture one for around the same cost. I just don't get why it hasn't happened yet. It's been what, almost two years since the first AF-S Nikon showed up? If not Nikon, then why not Tamron or Sigma make an affordable fast prime? Whoever does would make a killing, because most casual photographers (like me) can slip a ~$100 piece of glass past the wife a lot easier than a ~$400-$600 piece.

I just don't get why this huge hole in the Nikon lens lineup hasn't been filled -- if not by Nikon, then by someone else. Am I missing something? Does anyone know if such a lens is on the horizon?

(Please no comments telling me to buy the non-AF-S 50mm. No thank you.)

 

[Hmac]

Rumors are persistent that Sigma is coming out with a 50mm prime with HSM. Pricing has only been speculative, that I've seen, but the speculation has been that it will be in the $250-$350 range. My guess is that if Nikon came out with a 50mm AF-S, it would be in a similar price range, based on the pricing on their current 50mm f/1.4D.

I don't know why no such lens is available in AF-S version. I guess it's a marketing thing...not cost efficient.

 

[ChrisA]

Why no AF-S primes from Nikon? I think the market for them is not as big as you think. All Nikon SLR bodies except the D40/D60 can do fine with the current lineup of lenses

My guess is that most D40 users will never buy a second lens of any kind. Of the ones who do most will buy the lowest price tele-zoom they can find. Very few would buy a prime.
I think almost all peole who buy a D40 it is thier first SLR. People who were shooting SLRs for many years and are just now moving to digital from film would not buy a D40. I think while there is some small overlap the people who'd want a 50mm lens and the peoole who'd choose the D40 are not the same group.

That said, Nikon does periodically release newer versions of lenses. Eventually they will redesign the 50mm

 

[macgruder]

I don't think there's much demand for an 35mm equiv. of a 75mm lens amongst D40 users. The kind of user who wants such a prime would probably not mind paying for the Sigma 30mm F1.4 or Sigma 50mm F1.4.

 

[rogersmj]

OK, so perhaps there's not as much demand as I thought. But like I said, that Canon lens sells really well among amateur shooters, so I don't see why the Nikon crowd would be much different. I suppose you're correct in pointing out that the % of Nikon's lineup that requires lens-based AF motors is pretty small right now (just the three models I think...D40, D40x, D60), but from what I've heard this is the beginning of a full-blown transition so that one day all Nikons will just use AF-S. Didn't Canon go through something similar at some point, a transition from body- to lens-based AF motors?

 

[SLC Flyfishing]

I'm no Canon expert trust me, but I once had a Canonite explain to me that Canon had troubles implementing a body based AF motor and it never really worked out for them, he said that they went straight to lens based, so as far as I know they've never had anything but lens based AF, it's not all USM mind you, just they all have motors in the lens rather than the camera.

And I do think that Nikon will update the 50/1.4 to AF-S when they redesign it someday, but the types of people who use that lens are the types of people who have screw drive capable bodies. ChrisA hit it dead on when he pointed out that 99% of D40 D40X and D60 buyers will never own another lens apart from the kit lens, and the 1% or so that get another lens are going to get the 18-200 VR or some all encompasing super zoom like that. They aren't the type to get a fast prime and shoot professional portraits with it, they want something that will let them get shots of their kids playing soccer from the sidelines.

SLC

 

[SolracSelbor]

This is irrelevant but I have heard SO many people talk about how "the wife" doesnt like helping out with equipment and the like. Do you really need your wifes permission? Im still rather young (21) and ive been with my girlfriend for 3 years, so maybe I dont know the half of it. But we live together and have a shared bank account and all that stuff, but she is always supportive of everything I buy. She loves to see me buying camera stuff, or stuff for my guitar, or for my skateboard, or for my computer, and I do the same for her. As long as we can see each other happy it never seems like a problem. I would hate to have to ask permission for anything of this sort, just because it would feel, to me, as if i was a little kid asking my parents if i can buy a toy. On flickr I see people talking non stop about how to convince the "old lady" on "letting" them buy something for their camera...I just dont understand why, she SHOULD be happy to see you happy; at least your not spending your money on drugs, hookers, and booze.

 

[yeroen]

Do you really need your wifes permission? Im still rather young (21) and ive been with my girlfriend for 3 years, so maybe I dont know the half of it. But we live together and have a shared bank account and all that stuff, but she is always supportive of everything I buy.

I'm 34, and this is exactly why I insist that we keep separate bank accounts. I don't want my purchases subject to censure as long as the rent and other bills get paid on time.

 

[rogersmj]

This is irrelevant but I have heard SO many people talk about how "the wife" doesnt like helping out with equipment and the like. Do you really need your wifes permission? Im still rather young (21) and ive been with my girlfriend for 3 years, so maybe I dont know the half of it. But we live together and have a shared bank account and all that stuff, but she is always supportive of everything I buy. She loves to see me buying camera stuff, or stuff for my guitar, or for my skateboard, or for my computer, and I do the same for her. As long as we can see each other happy it never seems like a problem. I would hate to have to ask permission for anything of this sort, just because it would feel, to me, as if i was a little kid asking my parents if i can buy a toy. On flickr I see people talking non stop about how to convince the "old lady" on "letting" them buy something for their camera...I just dont understand why, she SHOULD be happy to see you happy; at least your not spending your money on drugs, hookers, and booze.

Different people work different ways. Of course my wife likes to see me happy, but we have other priorities too. We have long-term plans that we are saving for, and the money is both of ours, it's not "my" money, and we don't make major purchases without consulting each other. I'll stop there because that's not what this thread is about. Quit focusing on the words I chose; the point is that we're looking for an affordable AF-S prime.

I'm 34, and this is exactly why I insist that we keep separate bank accounts. I don't want my purchases subject to censure as long as the rent and other bills get paid on time.

Glad that works for you; can we go back to talking about lenses now?

 

[djchristie]

I think it very much depends on a persons attitude to a relationship and marriage. This is purely my opinion on the above, I'm not speaking for anyone else! When I married my wife I agreed to share everything with her, which of course includes money. Therefore, I don't have money of my own, it is all "our" money. If I spend small amounts, no drama. However, if I plan on spending a lot of money on something that is non-essential, the it's only polite to discuss it with your wife. At that stage, you have to grovel and justify why you "need" it, and accept the fact that it will be held against you for a very long time, i.e. forever! But seriously, I would never think about spending a large some of money without speaking to her, as although we earn the same amount of money it isn't mine alone to spend. Just my feelings on it!

 

[yeroen]

Glad that works for you; can we go back to talking about lenses now?

LOL, Ok.

Can you justify to your wife a D80 purchase? You know, so that way you'll each have a camera? Once you get a D80, she really can't argue against a $100 50 1.8 (one of Nikon's best lenses and certainly worlds better than any Sigma). It could be the D80's homecoming gift, so to speak

 

[rogersmj]

Yeah that's a reasonable point. I have to admit that a D80 upgrade has started to tempt me because of lens availability. But, this isn't urgent, so I'll probably at least wait it out until late this year to see what Nikon comes up with in the meantime. I do like my D40's small size and low weight quite a lot.

I really just wanted to see if anyone knew anything about future AF-S primes.

 

[jbernie]

Another way to look at it is, the only reason the market exists for the Canon 50mm f/1.8 lens is because it is so cheap. It wouldbe interesting to see how well it would do as a $250 lens.

Primes are really nice etc, then again, in a very basic sense it is just duplication as you already have 50mm in the kit lenses etc.

As to the sub topic of expenses ... set a max limit of spending per time period whch does not require approval/discussion. Over that and you need to have a chat. $20 per week no questions asked. If you don't spend $20 every week you can save it up a little like for a special b'day or christmas gift.

Right now...
gf: honey can I have a very nice purse... ($1000 Louis Vitton type very nice)
me: sure sweetie, and I can get a Canon 70-200mm L w/IS lens

 

[rogersmj]

Another way to look at it is, the only reason the market exists for the Canon 50mm f/1.8 lens is because it is so cheap. It wouldbe interesting to see how well it would do as a $250 lens.

Primes are really nice etc, then again, in a very basic sense it is just duplication as you already have 50mm in the kit lenses etc.

Well, not really, because what I'm looking for is a much wider aperture.

As to the sub topic of expenses ... set a max limit of spending per time period whch does not require approval/discussion. Over that and you need to have a chat.

That's actually pretty much the way we work. I recommend it.

 

[Hello.there]

This is irrelevant but I have heard SO many people talk about how "the wife" doesnt like helping out with equipment and the like. Do you really need your wifes permission? I.....On flickr I see people talking non stop about how to convince the "old lady" on "letting" them buy something for their camera...I just dont understand why, she SHOULD be happy to see you happy; at least your not spending your money on drugs, hookers, and booze.

I'm guessing these nasty wives we hear about might be people who would like their beloveds to use their money to pay mortgages, school fees, every day bills, etc, etc......rather than blowing it on toys. Toys are wonderful, but it's best not to buy them if you can't afford them and have a family to support.

 

[Hmac]

My wife has horses and rides dressage. We don't have discussions about my spending on my various hobbies.

 

[RaceTripper]

Nikon 60mm f/2.8G ED AF-S Micro-Nikkor

Well, it's not inexpensive, but at around $550 it's on the short list of lenses I'd add to my kit (which is a 17-55/2.8, 50/1.8, 70-200/2.8 VR + TC14e). The other choice would be the Tamron 90/2.8 Macro at about $450.

 

[ipodtoucher]

This is why i am proud to be single, by choice hahaha yet i have no money, so i can't buy anything hahaha double-edged sword i guess

 

[npederse]

And I do think that Nikon will update the 50/1.4 to AF-S when they redesign it someday, but the types of people who use that lens are the types of people who have screw drive capable bodies. ChrisA hit it dead on when he pointed out that 99% of D40 D40X and D60 buyers will never own another lens apart from the kit lens, and the 1% or so that get another lens are going to get the 18-200 VR or some all encompasing super zoom like that. They aren't the type to get a fast prime and shoot professional portraits with it, they want something that will let them get shots of their kids playing soccer from the sidelines.

SLC

Exactly -- the target market for the D40 series Nikons are those who are stepping up from a point-n-shoot. The folks who are more orientated to primes, particularly the 50mm, are primarily looking for a D80+ or don't mind focusing manually.

 

[nutmac]

Another way to look at it is, the only reason the market exists for the Canon 50mm f/1.8 lens is because it is so cheap. It wouldbe interesting to see how well it would do as a $250 lens.

Primes are really nice etc, then again, in a very basic sense it is just duplication as you already have 50mm in the kit lenses etc.

While not quite as popular as EF 50mm f/1.8II, Canon's EF 50mm f/1.4 USM is one of the best sellers (which costs around $300).

In very basic sense, f/1.8 maximum aperture is quite different from f/5.6 that kit lens offers at 50mm.

 

[ChrisA]

OK, so perhaps there's not as much demand as I thought. But like I said, that Canon lens sells really well among amateur shooters, so I don't see why the Nikon crowd would be much different. I suppose you're correct in pointing out that the % of Nikon's lineup that requires lens-based AF motors is pretty small right now (just the three models I think...D40, D40x, D60), but from what I've heard this is the beginning of a full-blown transition so that one day all Nikons will just use AF-S. Didn't Canon go through something similar at some point, a transition from body- to lens-based AF motors?

No, All Canon EOS lenses from day one use in-lens motors. When AF came out canon complete re-designed their lensmount. Nikon kept the F-mount so that AF and MF lenses and bodies woud work together.

You can only guess how upset Canon shooters were at this.

Still one day, years from now Nikon will have converted all it's lenses over to AF-S or whatever they are calling ultrasonic ring motors by then. But Nikon moves slowly

 

[SLC Flyfishing]

Nikon moves slowly

And unfortunately for me, Pentax moves even slower! But I'm willing to wait I suppose.

SLC

 

[RaceTripper]

But Nikon moves slowly

That may be, but when they do finally come out with new pro glass it really kicks butt.

Canon also seem to be ahead for in-lens stabilization (IS, VR). Nikon still only uses it in their telephoto (zoom and prime) lenses for the most part

 

[SolracSelbor]

And unfortunately for me, Pentax moves even slower! But I'm willing to wait I suppose.

SLC

Tell me about it....

Hey do you know if pentax will come out with a image stabilization enabled telephoto lens? I doubt the new *DA 300mm will benefit much from the build in stabilization.

 

[Abstract]

Another way to look at it is, the only reason the market exists for the Canon 50mm f/1.8 lens is because it is so cheap. It wouldbe interesting to see how well it would do as a $250 lens.

Exactly. It's a nice lens for $75 to $100, but it's not a great lens. It's sharp, but not as sharp as it can be, the contrast is very low (but that's characteristic of almost all really wide primes, no?) and the bokeh is horrid on the 50 mm f/1.8, and just average on the f/1.4. Also, on a DSLR, the lens has a 75 mm focal length (by 35 mm film standards), which isn't particularly useful for many people.

It's still fantastic for the price, so please don't get me wrong. However, if the price of a fast, short-to-mid focal length prime was not an issue, I'd personally want a 28 mm and 60 mm f/1.8 or f/1.4 prime in my bag. Too bad nobody makes a 60 mm f/1.4 or f/1.8 prime. I have a Sigma 30 mm f/1.4, which is perfect. I also want a Nikon 135 mm f/2 prime, but only if Nikon makes a new one. I don't really care about Defocus Control. I just want something that focuses at a decent speed.