Why Panic Nova didn't get the popularity that Coda had?

[I WAS the one]

I'm a Coda user. I remember the hype when it launched and the fan base that grow with the app as well, Coda was a game changer and still is one of the HTML editors many people use today. Not only that, but I don't understand why Panic Nova is not even mentioned on the HTML editors reviews on youtube or blogs, I thought it was going to be soemtyhing big as Coda or a Coda on steroids but now it seems I will need to look for another alternative since the hype is over and obviously it didnt became the tool people needed. Can someone explain what happened?

 

[thomasjpr]

I'd say the market for these types of editors has shifted dramatically since Code first came on the scene. There are lots of powerful alternatives on the market right now that are extremely popular and have active communities surrounding them. Sublime Text, Atom, Visual Studio Code are massive (and two of them are free.) To say nothing of stalwarts like BBEdit or VIM.

I never cared much for the heavy UI of Coda, though I really love Nova. It's clean, tastefully designed, and fast. Unfortunately, it's just a really difficult market to penetrate. If it ever sees much growth, it's going to be a very slow burn. I think a solid foundation is in place, but it needs a more active plugin community to form around it before you really start to see it grow.

 

[drumcat]

To date, no one seems to be able to explain how Nova is better than VSCode?

Now add to that they want $99/year for Nova, and you have a question of how much you really want something.

 

[Stella]

There are better paid for web development tools at or around the same price. There are also free alternatives that get the job done, but keeping in mind, free isn't always better.

Panic isn't well known out of the Apple world, so this also will be an uphill battle, people are far more likely to use more well known products.

Why would I want to use Nova when there are better alternatives, with better community support ( multiplatform solutions make a lot of difference)

 

[thomasjpr]

I think Panic just wanted to make a text editor that they (as longtime Mac users) would want to use. There's definitely a market for that sort of boutique/artisan, Mac-assed text editor, though it's debatably how big that market is. It's why I've been a BBEdit user since about 1997 -- it's fast, it's rock solid stable, and it behaves as I would expect a Mac app to work.

I've dallied with Sublime Text and VSCode over the years, and they offer tremendous value from their communities that no true Mac app will ever be able to replicate. They ultimately aren't for me in my use case or taste, but I absolutely get the appeal. I don't think anyone is making the argument that Coda is better than these other apps; it's pretty inferior in a lot of ways (probably in almost all of the ways that matter to how most people use text editors in 2022.) But I'm glad it exists as an alternative. The text editor ecosystem has probably never been healthier or more diverse.

 

[Starfia]

I was tempted by Coda 2 when it launched on sale – and really excited by the prospect of Nova – but didn't go for either, and I'm glad in retrospect. In its way, Nova seems really cool and has a great deal of care and soul, but it also seems hyper-focused. It seems largely designed to be "Xcode for the web" (and for PlayDate). If my taste were precisely in sync with Panic's, then I'd be perpetually dazzled, and if I were making tons of money from web development every day, then it might easily be worth the initial cost (and the ongoing cost for future upgrades).

But I've tried the Nova trials a few times, and my taste seems to veer slightly in too many ways. Xcode is intended for industrial-grade, commercial projects, and I've always thought of the spirit of the web as something more money-free and fueled by labours of whimsy, good will and enthusiasm wherever possible. Honouring some of the efforts of people who have worked on providing openly-available tools which are in many respects equally good – and even more amenable to users' taste – just kind of feels right.

Another aspect: Nova also seems super-supportive of people who want to make extensions, dedicating a whole sub-site to developing and releasing them. But it's been a year and a half, and nobody has come up with an extension for extensive treatment or debugging of Stylus or CoffeeScript, two popular preprocessors I'm never without. (Nova advertises built-in support for CoffeeScript, but that seems to amount to quite basic syntax highlighting.) I could invest a little time and write an extension, I'm sure, but if I'm paying so much for this tool, I feel like it's reasonable to expect this all to be there already, and better than the free apps. Meanwhile, one VS Code extension does everything I want and more, and all I had to do was learn how to search for and install an existing extension. That's just one little thing, and for me, there are at least a half-dozen similar things.

Following its heart has always been a mark of Panic. That means a smaller audience, I applaud their success having stuck to that, and I wouldn't dare change it.

 

[chikorita157]

I have a copy of Nova and it’s alright and normally use it for editing text files. I only use it as a text editor when I transitioned to M1. I refuse to use something like VS Code since it uses Electron garbage and is a memory hog. I just hate Electron apps and would rather avoid using them.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

I'd say the market for these types of editors has shifted dramatically since Code first came on the scene. There are lots of powerful alternatives on the market right now that are extremely popular and have active communities surrounding them. Sublime Text, Atom, Visual Studio Code are massive (and two of them are free.) To say nothing of stalwarts like BBEdit or VIM.

Exactly. I just use Visual Studio Code for HTML, etc., and it is free.

 

[mw360]

I still use Coda 2. It’s a nice lightweight entry into web development, with barely any learning curve, and everything a part-timer would need in one app - embedded browser, CSS editing etc. I still like it, it feels fun to use.

I didn’t switch because it seemed like the embedded browser preview was gone, and the new stuff was stuff I hadn’t graduated up to needing.

It was the same story with CSSEdit which I loved, and its follow-up, Espresso, which sacrificed it’s core competence in favour of maturing up into a market it couldn’t excel in.

To date, no one seems to be able to explain how Nova is better than VSCode?

Now add to that they want $99/year for Nova, and you have a question of how much you really want something.

I was also deterred by the price increase because I make nothing off of web development, but FYI, it’s not a subscription. I think it used to be, right? It’s a one time purchase with optional annual support. It’s also $50 on sale right now, which I’m considering. Support is $49 per year, and supposedly you can cancel and resume at will.

 

[I WAS the one]

It’s also $50 on sale right now, which I’m considering. Support is $49 per year, and supposedly you can cancel and resume at will.

$50?? That's great! I will download it now to see if powerful enough for my workflow. I'm still using Espresso, and it seems I am very attached to the CSS tools and features.

 

[drumcat]

I still use Coda 2. It’s a nice lightweight entry into web development, with barely any learning curve, and everything a part-timer would need in one app - embedded browser, CSS editing etc. I still like it, it feels fun to use.

I didn’t switch because it seemed like the embedded browser preview was gone, and the new stuff was stuff I hadn’t graduated up to needing.

It was the same story with CSSEdit which I loved, and its follow-up, Espresso, which sacrificed it’s core competence in favour of maturing up into a market it couldn’t excel in.


I was also deterred by the price increase because I make nothing off of web development, but FYI, it’s not a subscription. I think it used to be, right? It’s a one time purchase with optional annual support. It’s also $50 on sale right now, which I’m considering. Support is $49 per year, and supposedly you can cancel and resume at will.

OK, so it's $49/year.

The only drawback I see is that VSCode is Electron. Fair enough; it's not native. If you're bothered by Electron *that* much, the cost of entry to Nova is going to be easy to swallow.

If you can take the Electron part out, and frankly I don't care, I still see the $0 version of VSCode as a better product. If my CPU runs at 6% instead of 4%, I'm not bothered.

I used Coda for a very long time as well. It is an excellent product for its era. If you do what Nova does, go for it. It really just doesn't feel that flexible when I've used it. I find the text editing better in almost any other editor. Markdown included.

 

[mw360]

OK, so it's $49/year.

Argh, thanks for reminding me I forgot to purchase while it’s on sale ?

But it’s $0 per year to use, just so that’s clear. Also, just correcting my misinformation above, Nova does (now) have an embedded browser like Coda.

 

[I WAS the one]

I use the trial and to be honest I still can use Espresso, and I'm fine. No need for Nova in my workflow. There's also free editors that are well done too. I didn't get the feeling of innovation or "This is the one!" vibe. I was doing the same thing I do with my old text editor.

 

[randolorian]

I want Nova to be the one so badly. It looks and feels great, but VS Code is good enough, it's free and has a large extension library. I just can't justify spending money on Nova. Even if it were free, I would probably still use Code because of all of the extensions I rely on.

 

[sundevil671]

I know it's a long shot - and if no one knows the answer, maybe someone can point me to a discussion forum where this under appreciated and still my favorite code editor is actively discussed?

I've lost access to ALL of my Coda 2 preferences after accidentally clicking the presumably defunct "Sync" option. My original goal was to re-load an old code sweeper plugin (I'd recently reinstalled Coda 2 after a forced update to Monterey), but now every time I load the preference panel, I get stuck on the spinning beachball indefinitely until I force-quit the application. I'm really not in a hurry to reinstall the whole application, as I remember it being a pain to migrate over my site FTP settings & much more. Is that really the only option here? Thank you.

 

[Knocks]

I have tried Nova and hated it. This might sound trivial but I really dislike that they put their branding, including a bright logo and the word "Nova" right there in the title bar next to the maximize button. It's distracting and in poor taste, and I find it baffling how any UI person would think it would be a good idea to use that area for branding. No other editor does that.

I also found it very slow. BBEdit, CotEditor, and others launch instantly but this one definitely takes its time. Even VS Code (someone was criticizing Electron earlier) feels faster.

 

[mho]

I also tried Nova and deleted it after a few tries. I don't understand why Panic claims that it is "lightning fast". It was way slower than Coda, and I have a 2019 MacBookPro. I can't even remember all of the things that Nova couldn't do but Coda2 can. I will continue to use Coda2 as long as it will run on the new OS-X versions to come (I know, they now call it MacOS, but I grew up on OS-X and still call it that)

 

[drumcat]

You're going to have to make the switch, so search for "Coda" on VSC plug-ins.

 

[jdb8167]

I love Nova. I use it every day. It’s $49/yr after the first year for updates.