Why so many tech support people (and non-tech support people) are incapable but they have a job?

[hajime]

Hi, I noticed that a lot of support agents are not capable of answering questions about their products. Today I tried to get some issues resolved. First guy had not idea what went wrong. The second lady told me something and the opposite thing later. Then, she got confused and apologized. Then, she told me things that are obviously wrong. Then I tried again few hours later and a guy picked up my chat. I know this guy is also incompetent so I asked him to transfer me to two other guys. He said that they were not around. Then, I gave him a final chance and he told me to read the manual and see if I could find out what went wrong. I told him that he is the support guy and he is supposed to help customer rather than asking customer to read the manual. Even at Apple, there are people who don't know what they are talking about.

Why there are so many this kind of people? How did they get the job?

 

[cmaier]

Hi, I noticed that a lot of support agents are not capable of answering questions about their products. Today I tried to get some issues resolved. First guy had not idea what went wrong. The second lady told me something and the opposite thing later. Then, she got confused and apologized. Then, she told me things that are obviously wrong. Then I tried again few hours later and a guy picked up my chat. I know this guy is also incompetent so I asked him to transfer me to two other guys. He said that they were not around. Then, I gave him a final chance and he told me to read the manual and see if I could find out what went wrong. I told him that he is the support guy and he is supposed to help customer rather than asking customer to read the manual. Even at Apple, there are people who don't know what they are talking about.

Why there are so many this kind of people? How did they get the job?

By phone? Most of the “first level” folks have no technical expertise, and just look up your problem and respond with pre-scripted steps. If you can get to the next level of support, you usually get someone who knows more.

 

[hajime]

By phone? Most of the “first level” folks have no technical expertise, and just look up your problem and respond with pre-scripted steps. If you can get to the next level of support, you usually get someone who knows more.

By online chat. I have dealt with over 15 agents in that company over the year. Two of them are excellent. Three others are acceptable. The rest can be replaced by anybody. Problem is they don't have a fixed schedule. One of them hinted to me that it is for "fairness". I even told the 3rd guy I chatted with today that knowing he cannot answer any question is the reason why every time he picked up my chat, I asked him if somebody else is around.

Some companies also list one generic support email address that I guess all support agents can read. One time I specifically asked to forward my questions to a guy whom I know could answer my questions. Then, somebody else replied. Followed his advice which was wrong and wasted two days.

Even a high level support agent from Apple made mistakes. She also promised that she would get back to me with a solution but no follow up.

 

[hajime]

I found that other industries are the same. For example, local banks always change people and sometimes there are people who don't know that they are doing and made mistakes. One of them told me that they only got 3 weeks of training and the bank sent them to local banks to learn while dealing with customers. Does this happen to your local banks?

 

[0128672]

An awful lot of it can be attributed to poor initial and ongoing training, lack of more senior resources when needed for a consultation, and time constraints imposed by management.

"We see that you resolved the customer's issue but it took you 10 ten minutes. We expect you to resolve issues in 45 seconds and under. We expect your call time to improve within 7 days or ...."

 

[hajime]

A bank manager even told me that they all got their jobs via personal connections. Each of them is a friend or relative of somebody already working there!

 

[hajime]

An awful lot of it can be attributed to poor initial and ongoing training, lack of more senior resources when needed for a consultation, and time constraints imposed by management.

"We see that you resolved the customer's issue but it took you 10 ten minutes. We expect you to resolve issues in 45 seconds and under. We expect your call time to improve within 7 days or ...."

By phone? Most of the “first level” folks have no technical expertise, and just look up your problem and respond with pre-scripted steps. If you can get to the next level of support, you usually get someone who knows more.

Sometimes those "first level" folks pretended to know things and gave customers wrong answers. Then at the end of the chat, the system asks us to give a rating of good or bad. Last year as I was new to the product, I clicked good but now I know they gave me the wrong information.

Recently I have some issues. Only that top agent knows the answers. However, some of these first level folks do not want to transfer me to him and tried to answer themselves. After waiting for a few days for this top guy to be available today, a first level folk picked up the chat. I asked him to transfer me to this top guy and he said he is on vacation for 2 weeks. This is a lie as this guy just had a long vacation and another agent told me yesterday that this top guy would be available for chat today. I complained and told this first level folk to transfer me to another agent. He refused. I terminated and tried to chat with other agents 3 times and he on purpose continued to pick up my chat request. If they are not well trained, they should not really be there and waste customer's time.

 

[hajime]

Due to the pandemic, we are supposed to make an appointment at IKEA for returns. I had an appointment at 9am yesterday. A staff came out before that to check with customers. When I told him that I had an appointment at 9am, he said that there was no 9am appointment. I showed him a SMS from the booking system and then he had nothing to say and walked away. Is he crazy? If no 9am appointment, why he came out to check with customers? This guy also opened the door for returns 10 minutes later than the main door while staff inside were waiting for us to enter the room for returns.

Why there are so many people who don't know what they are doing are having a job while some of my friends who are technically accomplished and have advanced degrees from top universities unemployed?

 

[grandM]

Due to the pandemic, we are supposed to make an appointment at IKEA for returns. I had an appointment at 9am yesterday. A staff came out before that to check with customers. When I told him that I had an appointment at 9am, he said that there was no 9am appointment. I showed him a SMS from the booking system and then he had nothing to say and walked away. Is he crazy? If no 9am appointment, why he came out to check with customers? This guy also opened the door for returns 10 minutes later than the main door while staff inside were waiting for us to enter the room for returns.

Why there are so many people who don't know what they are doing are having a job while some of my friends who are technically accomplished and have advanced degrees from top universities unemployed?

This takes me back in time. I could tell you a story about a major bank of which the HR was confronted with ten or eleven people with a financial master degree. There was another candidate who was still studying aerospace abroad (everyone else had graduated). In private he admitted having like no interest at all in finance nor banks. His father told him to apply for the management program. He was the best-looking person from the bunch. HR, exclusively composed out of women, sent everyone home but this guy.

You do know about the Challenger I suppose? During subprime this major bank crashed and burnt. When their bankruptcy was filed for I smirked.

Reading your posts it's clear they've returned to business as usual. Maybe even the day after.
By the way another huge bank still asks to fill out the candidate's parents' occupation on their application form.

 

[TSE]

How about you stop judging and worry about yourself?

 

[hajime]

Went to Microsoft Store to ask about Office 2021. That so-called Microsoft "Specialist" argued with me saying that there is no Office 2021 but 2019 is the latest version. He insisted on his believe and asked me to send him a link to prove that I am right. He also said he searched and did not see Office 2021 in the store. I sent him the product link from his store and he just said "Oh cool!" Not even an apology. Today is a big day for the release of Windows 11 and Office 2021 yet he had no idea about it. Then I asked him if I could run it on a Mac or a PC one at a time and he kept on saying rubbish. Should be fired! Why so many of that kind of people got hired?

 

[svenmany]

People have limitations and inflexible egos. You're encountering that in the support people you talk to and yourself.

When a person gains competence, they'll likely look for jobs that don't have them interacting with the public. Usually interacting with the public is painful; you are constantly exposed to people who think you should be fired and that you're an idiot.

I've had the best luck with first-tier support when I've dropped the negative attitude, treated the person with respect, and approached the problem as a shared effort. A little bit of compassion can go a long way towards motivating an under-paid person to really want to help you.

 

[3SQ Machine]

If these jobs paid $100K+ they would be staffed accordingly.

 

[hajime]

Yesterday I was chatting with an Apple guy. I asked about M1 Max 32GB 1TB base model and he said that 1TB is not a base model for M1 Max but 512GB is. As a result, it is never sold in stores. I told him to check the product page. There is no 512GB configuration. 1TB is the base model. Even at Apple, some of these people don't know what they are selling.

 

[tpfang56]

Yesterday I was chatting with an Apple guy. I asked about M1 Max 32GB 1TB base model and he said that 1TB is not a base model for M1 Max but 512GB is. As a result, it is never sold in stores. I told him to check the product page. There is no 512GB configuration. 1TB is the base model. Even at Apple, some of these people don't know what they are selling.

🤔

 

[hajime]

I double checked again. 16" M1 Max which I discussed with the guy has no 512GB SSD option. 1TB is the minimum.

 

[MBAir2010]

Yesterday I was chatting with an Apple guy. I asked about M1 Max 32GB 1TB base model and he said that 1TB is not a base model for M1 Max but 512GB is. As a result, it is never sold in stores. I told him to check the product page. There is no 512GB configuration. 1TB is the base model. Even at Apple, some of these people don't know what they are selling.

and they are clueless over OS,
i showed an apple salesperson my MBair 2010 running mojave,
they did to bat an eye.

in 2005 i worked as an temp stocking an apple store, the managers were impressed with my work ethic, stamina
and communications skills. they were not efficient and planned o double work instead of the better way.
when they hire employees, i was left out.
apple does not want those with a soul or troubleshooting skills
simply because there are too many apple customers who will digest anything apple over-sells them.
i seen this first hand way too many times.
and other companies are using this tactic as a platform for their company.

oh well....

 

[TSE]

and they are clueless over OS,
i showed an apple salesperson my MBair 2010 running mojave,
they did to bat an eye.

in 2005 i worked as an temp stocking an apple store, the managers were impressed with my work ethic, stamina
and communications skills. they were not efficient and planned o double work instead of the better way.
when they hire employees, i was left out.
apple does not want those with a soul or troubleshooting skills
simply because there are too many apple customers who will digest anything apple over-sells them.
i seen this first hand way too many times.
and other companies are using this tactic as a platform for their company.

oh well....

It's easier to look outward than inward. The truth is somewhere in the middle. That was sixteen years ago, let it go and be free!

hajime, you are wonderful. This thread really helped me. Thank you.

 

[K two]

The competent get promoted only to waste their time in meetings. Which is why working remote is so much more productive and efficient.

 

[TinyMito]

Because someone at that competent level, they usually work in the higher up and behind the scene rather the front line dealing with phone calls.

Front line jobs aren't paying six figures, sorry.

 

[iHorseHead]

I used to work in Service Desk for many different companies and often we had no information available or very limited information + awful training.
The most important thing in help desk, service desk jobs is that you'd take the chat or a phone call and escalate it to the right team.
Even if you do know how to do stuff (For example you know how to use Azure AD and you could easily create credentials or unlock accounts or whatever) you do not always have sufficient permissions to do that.

People don't have sufficient privileges to do everything and you cannot tell to the customer: "I can't do that because I don't have privileges to do that" etc.

Also, many service desk jobs / support agent jobs are 12h shifts and as mean as that sounds, you're supposed to get 'rid' of the customer as fast as possible (I'm not joking) and answer another call.
If someone asks you to download Microsoft Office 365 and install it all the support agent is supposed to do is open a ticket and escalate it, because it takes 45min-1h to do that.

It's very easy to judge others and how incapable people are, but we often forget that those employees are often overworked, with little to no breaks.

Joshua Fluke did a video on this as well once and I've worked at such places as well. It often starts with the management and how things are organised. You cannot judge people like that and sometimes you just aren't allowed to help people. What you're supposed to do is open the ticket and escalate it to the correct team and that's it. Also, in most places they look at everything what you've been doing and I've gotten into trouble for installing Microsoft Office at a customer's PC, because that's not my job (and it took me an hour). I was also 'punished' for it and the management asked me every day for 2 months why I did that + they cut my salary as a punishment. So yes, please don't judge people like that.

 

[iHorseHead]

Usually interacting with the public is painful; you are constantly exposed to people who think you should be fired and that you're an idiot.

Having done such jobs, I highly appreciate people like you. (See my post above) + Also, a lot of patient in hospitals, nursing homes think that nurses are idiots and should be fired etc. Such attitude is extremely exhausting. We are all trying to make living.
I've never latched out at customer service or IT Support and I always rate their service with 10 if they ask for my feedback (Usually when they open a ticket you receive an email asking how pleased you were) and no matter what I always give 10, because it's the least I can do to cheer someone up.

 

[iHorseHead]

By phone? Most of the “first level” folks have no technical expertise, and just look up your problem and respond with pre-scripted steps. If you can get to the next level of support, you usually get someone who knows more.

(Sorry for spamming)
And in Service Desk there are different teams as well. Trust me, OP. People do the best they can to help you. I'd actually challenge you to work at a Help Desk job or Service Desk job and see how it is. You won't be asking such questions anymore.
I already brought you an example with Azure AD or sometimes a help desk person isn't allowed to touch your credentials on AD (Active Directory) to unlock your account and you can't tell to a customer: "Yes, I don't have sufficient permissions to unlock your account". It's absolutely forbidden to talk like that to a customer. So I don't know. Whatever the case, please be understanding.

I once booked plane tickets and I didn't receive my tickets. I waited on a phone for two hours. The person at help desk did the best he could to help me. It took them two four hours for them to send tickets to me. Why should I be mad or complain about the people at help desk? It's not their fault at all.

 

[grandM]

and they are clueless over OS,
i showed an apple salesperson my MBair 2010 running mojave,
they did to bat an eye.

in 2005 i worked as an temp stocking an apple store, the managers were impressed with my work ethic, stamina
and communications skills. they were not efficient and planned o double work instead of the better way.
when they hire employees, i was left out.
apple does not want those with a soul or troubleshooting skills
simply because there are too many apple customers who will digest anything apple over-sells them.
i seen this first hand way too many times.
and other companies are using this tactic as a platform for their company.

oh well....

HR tends to ignore competence.

 

[ericwn]

Due to the pandemic, we are supposed to make an appointment at IKEA for returns. I had an appointment at 9am yesterday. A staff came out before that to check with customers. When I told him that I had an appointment at 9am, he said that there was no 9am appointment. I showed him a SMS from the booking system and then he had nothing to say and walked away. Is he crazy? If no 9am appointment, why he came out to check with customers? This guy also opened the door for returns 10 minutes later than the main door while staff inside were waiting for us to enter the room for returns.

Why there are so many people who don't know what they are doing are having a job while some of my friends who are technically accomplished and have advanced degrees from top universities unemployed?

Apple support has a fairly good reputation. IKEA on the other hand seemed utterly unprepared for COVID or any prolonged customer interaction.