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Wifi 7 - Apple dropping the ball
- Thread starter Kbaegis
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Non-issue for most folks IMHO. How many people out there updated their routers specifically for Wifi7? Seems like a FOMO thing to me. I'm not sure what the cost difference would be between 6e and 7 but why add the cost when the vast majority of routers are probably still 6e or before? Let the tech age another year or so and we will have more routers in the wild.
PS - This should be in the Mac forum.
PS - This should be in the Mac forum.
Can't speak for others; I've been running wifi 7 for 6+ months now.
How expensive are upgraded chipsets? Pennies compared to the cost of a new mac.
How expensive are upgraded chipsets? Pennies compared to the cost of a new mac.
Well, there are certainly some wifi7 routers out there but I would guess that the vast majority of users upgrade only when their router breaks or when their ISP wants to replace them, hence my opinion that 7 compatible routers are certainly in the miniority, I'd venture to say <5% of all in use, maybe 10%.
As far as the cost goes, not pennies but not stupid expensive either:
Fenvi FV-AXE3000 Wi-Fi 6E AX210 PCIe Network Card Bluetooth 5.2 Heat Sink AX 3000Mbps 802.11ax Tri-band 2.4G/5G/6G PCI-E Wireless WiFi Network Adapter Cards for Desktop PC Support Windows 10/11 64-bit - Newegg.com
Buy Fenvi FV-AXE3000 Wi-Fi 6E AX210 PCIe Network Card Bluetooth 5.2 Heat Sink AX 3000Mbps 802.11ax Tri-band 2.4G/5G/6G PCI-E Wireless WiFi Network Adapter Cards for Desktop PC Support Windows 10/11 64-bit with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!
Fenvi WiFi 7 FV-BE8800 Wireless Card 8774Mbps PCIe WiFi Card,Bluetooth 5.4,With Intel WiFi 7 BE200 Chip,Tri-Bands(6GHz/5GHz/2.4GHz) for Gaming PC Desktop,Support Windows 11/10(64Bit),MU-MIMO WiFi 6E - Newegg.com
Buy Fenvi WiFi 7 FV-BE8800 Wireless Card 8774Mbps PCIe WiFi Card,Bluetooth 5.4,With Intel WiFi 7 BE200 Chip,Tri-Bands(6GHz/5GHz/2.4GHz) for Gaming PC Desktop,Support Windows 11/10(64Bit),MU-MIMO WiFi 6E with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!
I'd gladly pay for the latest and greatest too, but I just thought your "dropping the ball" comment was a bit o'hyperbole given the small number of folks that have wifi7 routers. YMMV and obviously does.
Edit: that was a quick and not very well searched pair of wifi cards, I think the more accurate difference was about $5
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Real power users would be on Ethernet, and for everyone else, Wifi 6E is good enough in 2024. 
Seriously though, I imagine a desktop Mac would be one of the last Apple devices to get WiFi 7, just because WiFi 7 is more useful in a place where a LOT of devices are trying to access the Internet at once, like a mall or an airport. An iMac would be used at home (with relatively few devices) or at the office (where there's Ethernet).
New iPhones already have WiFi 7 support, and I imagine the MacBook Pros would be the next ones to follow.
Seriously though, I imagine a desktop Mac would be one of the last Apple devices to get WiFi 7, just because WiFi 7 is more useful in a place where a LOT of devices are trying to access the Internet at once, like a mall or an airport. An iMac would be used at home (with relatively few devices) or at the office (where there's Ethernet).
New iPhones already have WiFi 7 support, and I imagine the MacBook Pros would be the next ones to follow.
My ISP provided Eero Pro 6E only goes up to Wifi 6 but it's plenty fast for what I need.
No Wifi 7...talk about first world problems.
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I, too, have the Eero Pro 6E and it’s more than enough for me at this point in time. It’s stable, fast , easy to manage and it gets frequent updates.
Kbaegis I couldn't agree more, Apple running WiFi 7 on iPhone but not on the Mac range is totally beyond me, M4 Max runs Thunderbolt 5 at 120Gbps and yet no WiFi 7 for these so called 'high end' devices which some go up to $12k in Australia. Local file sharing with NAS (many with 10GbE as standard) and similar media requirements would greatly benefit from WiFi 7.!!! Frankly Apple is kicking goals on some things, but has completely lost their innovation and leading edge in many others . . .
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The majority of users don't use WiFi 7. I have 5 gig internet and my desktop is connected via ethernet. The only device in my home that uses WiFi 7 is my 16 Pro Max. I have 9 Echos, 3 HomePod, 4 Samsung Smart TVs, a stove, microwave and refrigerator that all use WiFi. According to DigiTimes WiFi 7 adoption rate for 2024 is 6.4% and not expected to be wide spread until 2026. Apple has never been leading edge. They tend to make sure what they release is top of the market if not best. Apple Computer not the first for GUI but by far the best. iPod not the first music player but the best. iPad not the first tablet but the best. Apple wasn't the first to remove headphone jacks, have touch screen, have a desktop class mobile operating system, the list goes on. You also must remember the average internet speed in the US is around 200 Mbps, a far cry from needing WiFi 7. My favorite Steve Jobs quote is him quoting (and say this how Apple will always operate)Wayne Gretzky "Skate to where the puck is going, not where it has been". I think you are also forgetting Apple is currently working on its on WiFi 7 chip. Lastly High End is what consumer says it is. The cost of anything is only valued at the price a person is willing to pay. The $12k is at that price because people will pay it. Make that same devices with everything identical and charge lets say $24k. Sure some might buy it, but I'm willing to bet the majority of people that would and could spend that type of money wouldn't. Okay that's my rant and 5 cents lol. Have a great day.
I went with the $100 10g Ethernet upgrade on the Mac mini, as I can later hook up a WiFi 7 (or probably eventually a future wifi 8 or 9) bridge as they become cheaper and more available.
Obviously, I would have preferred the latest wifi 7 included (and I do actually own a wifi 7 router already) but at least for a desktop mac there is an upgrade path available in the future.
I own several older video game consoles, and use wired ethernet hooked to a bridge vs the much slower obsolete built in wifi as well.
One day hopefully I can actually Ethernet wire my house, but the existing router and locations don’t lend themselves to a easy diy install, (bad router location, insulated exterior walls, and other difficult wiring challenges.)
Obviously, I would have preferred the latest wifi 7 included (and I do actually own a wifi 7 router already) but at least for a desktop mac there is an upgrade path available in the future.
I own several older video game consoles, and use wired ethernet hooked to a bridge vs the much slower obsolete built in wifi as well.
One day hopefully I can actually Ethernet wire my house, but the existing router and locations don’t lend themselves to a easy diy install, (bad router location, insulated exterior walls, and other difficult wiring challenges.)
I'd disagree with that statement. They were the first mainstream computer company to ship 802.11b. They were also aggressive with 802.11g and 802.11n, even shipping the later with an unfinished version of the standard.
Since they've killed AirPort (why Apple? why?), it does seem to have slowed down.
Thanks, but it's not so relevant talking about 'the way they've always done it' when they HAVE NOW just done it with iPhone. I lived in Singapore for 6yrs and (because it's tiny) even back then 10Gb internet was common, today in Australia now 1Gb is the norm and it makes the need for fast WiFi untethered internet even higher. I run Ubiquiti and rather than a router upgrade just change the access point.
I suppose I was only referencing Mac specific to iPhone saying it was strange to adopt it for the least useful device, especially for LAN based media, why shouldn't Mac with Thunderbolt 5 and an M4 Max have WiFi 7 now when it's adoption in 3-4yrs time (which is pretty much the useful laptop life anyway) will be massively higher - and these are top of market devices.
Anyhow, just saying that's all . . .
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I love the idea of Wifi 7 devices. But show me first all the Routers that do Wifi 7 at a decent price that most can afford? Bottom line is - 6e is for many a better fit. For me, Wifi 7 would be great in a two router scenario with WiFi 7 being the back haul and having as much of my devices connected by 2.5 gig ethernet or 10 gig ethernet.
Ubiquiti (ui.com) are excellent value, fast and reliable - and I have no affiliation either.
The US$189 AP7 can be setup in a limited fashion standalone without the router, many of which when added give multi-wan (from 1Gb all the way to 2x 25Gb) out of the box.
As a +20yr Cisco CCNA frankly speaking, the UI value proposition is a no-brainer . . .
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I am glad you mentioned one option..but as stated "all the routers" as in options. It is limited on the lower cost spectrum (for now). Again most will be more than happy with the Wifi 6e specs and certainly costs whether single router, pair bridged, or mesh.
I'll simply say that for you and me, Wi-Fi 7 or more cutting-edge options are attractive options, and for those wanting very fast, they'll drop cable/fiber instead, such as rendering farms.
David, I can appreciate IT related certs and degrees given I have BSIT and 9 certs but unsure if they add value here in this conversation.
802.11be has lower latency, simultaneous TX/RX (separate bands), and way more throughput. Those are all huge.
Once I found a provider that was selling wifi 7 APs with 20Gb wired backhaul, I pulled the trigger. $1k got me 3 of them.
Recommend not getting anything still using 1/2.5 gig. It's a waste of the technologies capabilities.
Once I found a provider that was selling wifi 7 APs with 20Gb wired backhaul, I pulled the trigger. $1k got me 3 of them.
Recommend not getting anything still using 1/2.5 gig. It's a waste of the technologies capabilities.
I'm eagerly waiting for my preferred router manufacturer to release their Wi-Fi 7 router. Once it's out, I'll be all over it. ✌️
Who is your preferred manufacturer? Looking at triple or quad band??
Seems there are a few good Wifi 7 routers out there...with of course the better ones being at a well, "Apple price."
I’ve had good luck with the Alien router from Amplify. With Spectrum I’m averaging 650 Mbps living here in Lizard Spit 🦎 Arizona. That’s about the best 💰 you can get right now in these parts. 💁♂️
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Do most of your devices handle WiFi 7 or do you plan to use it for just backhaul or???
I have 6e pair of routers in bridge mode for my specific needs. Works very well as I have a computer oriented area and then a home entertainment area. If all my devices had WiFi 7, I would no longer use bridge mode as WiFi would be fast enough for all devices. However, if I had Wifi 7 now, I would continue with bridge mode as it serves up the fastest speeds in my situation.
Yes, I’m running a similar setup in bridge mode. I’m not sure when AmpliFi will roll out their Wi-Fi 7, but I’m guessing it’ll be sometime after the first of the year. 🛜
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The lack of WiFi 7 is a joke for those exact reasons... On a handheld these are indeed rather irrelevant, but in the Mac it's a major difference. It was OK that the M3 came with 6E only, but the M4 devices... that is the opposite of future proofing.
I understand your take...but then again, will Wifi 7 ready devices work with Wifi 6e routers? Will Wifi 6/6e devices work with Wifi7 routers? YES/YES. The question is would all those buying Minis and iMacs etc. run out and spend a few hundred on Wifi 7 now? Apple things not likely. YOU* and I might. Many people have already invested in WiFI6 and not even 6e mesh systems. If one wanted today to take advantage of of WiFi7 at some level, they might simply set up a system for the backhaul and connected devices, if able, via cable to the nodes in the network whether it is mesh or bridge etc. Perhaps on the next major bump we'll see more WiFi 7 devices. I would welcome them.
How they have done it is especially relevant if you are commenting on how they do it now. My favorite thing to emphasize when comparing how to countries do thing is size. Singapore is the size of Rhode Island. Building a 10gb infrastructure there compared to the US isn't comparable. New York City has a need and desire for high speed internet well before Fort Colins, CO. While I can definitely agree with you from a consumer standpoint on having WiFi 7, expecting Apple to be among the first to implement it through out their devices, even high end isn't something we've seen nor are likely to see from Apple in the next decade. Tim Cook isn't the type to take too many chances on unproven tech, especially if the cost basis doesn't show a major upside. If we take the base Mac Mini for example, the value proposition is pretty much better than or equal to any equivalent PC. However it's when you started to upgrade especially storage that prices become ridiculous, which has been the case since the release of iCloud storage. Singapore continues to be at the forefront of internet speed (and a lot of tech in general), which makes sense they are considered the Wall Street of Asia. What we are finding with the cell phone market is that consumers are actively seeking faster WiFi speeds and those numbers are out pacing that of the PC market. The most ironic fact about Apple is while they aren't the first to implement, they do support their devices longer than a competitor, by a good margin. My personal opinion is that Apple is waiting until it has its own WiFi chip to make a move into WiFi 7. However only time will tell on that matter. At the end of the day Apple is going to do something that make consumers happy and others that make shareholders happy. I personally think Tim has done an amazing job balancing the two.