Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

rm5

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Mar 4, 2022
2,936
3,388
United States
Apple said their transition would last 2 years, and they announced it back in 2020, so do you think they will complete the transition by announcing the Mac Pro and wait until the fall to release the new M2 or whatever it will be called?

I personally think they would be misleading people if they said the transition would last 2 years but it actually would be longer. It also seems likely because the last two Mac Pros have been announced at WWDC - the 2013 and the 2019.

What do you think about this?
 

T'hain Esh Kelch

macrumors 603
Aug 5, 2001
6,447
7,365
Denmark

theluggage

macrumors 604
Jul 29, 2011
7,982
8,399
What about the updated Xeon specs uncovered in the XCode beta last year?
It's not impossible that they'll do another Intel Mac Pro refresh - we're still guessing what form an Apple Silicon Mac will take so it could be a major departure with workflow implications, in which case keeping a viable Intel option for another year or two would make sense. I always feel that part of the problem with the Trashcan was that they'd let the previous "classic chessegrater" model get badly out of date (by then it had been discontinued in the EU for a year because Apple couldn't contrive to tweak it to meet safety regulations that had been in the pipeline for years, and even elsewhere that last update had been widely derided as insignificant). So people desperate for upgrades or replacements were forced onto a radically different design that they weren't ready for).

That said, I'd be deeply sceptical of these "reference to technology X found deep in the source code" rumours - there will inevitably be parts of the MacOS code - drivers etc. - provided by Intel, AMD etc. which may reference products that Apple have no intention of ever using.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tagbert and pc297

pc297

macrumors 6502
Sep 26, 2015
336
207
It's not impossible that they'll do another Intel Mac Pro refresh - we're still guessing what form an Apple Silicon Mac will take so it could be a major departure with workflow implications, in which case keeping a viable Intel option for another year or two would make sense. I always feel that part of the problem with the Trashcan was that they'd let the previous "classic chessegrater" model get badly out of date (by then it had been discontinued in the EU for a year because Apple couldn't contrive to tweak it to meet safety regulations that had been in the pipeline for years, and even elsewhere that last update had been widely derided as insignificant). So people desperate for upgrades or replacements were forced onto a radically different design that they weren't ready for).

That said, I'd be deeply sceptical of these "reference to technology X found deep in the source code" rumours - there will inevitably be parts of the MacOS code - drivers etc. - provided by Intel, AMD etc. which may reference products that Apple have no intention of ever using.

I see, like the Mac Mini that continued to be sold both as Intel and M1
 
  • Like
Reactions: planteater

theluggage

macrumors 604
Jul 29, 2011
7,982
8,399
I think without a single doubt. It will be announced, but actual ship dates might not be immediate.
Like the 2019 Mac Pro, the 2017 iMac Pro and the 2013 Mac Pro Trashcan - announced at WWDC, shipped in Q4 - so there's plenty f precedent for that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tagbert

pc297

macrumors 6502
Sep 26, 2015
336
207
That said, I'd be deeply sceptical of these "reference to technology X found deep in the source code" rumours - there will inevitably be parts of the MacOS code - drivers etc. - provided by Intel, AMD etc. which may reference products that Apple have no intention of ever using.
True, there have been several beta extensions/features that hinted at something that never materialised, e.g. the infamous beta 64-bit GMA 950 extension in the 10.6.2 update that hinted at the breathtaking possibility of Apple developing 64-bit EFI for the MacMini 1,1/2,1 of MacBook 1,1/2,1; or the first 10.6 betas still having ppc support which hinted at Apple planning to release Snow Leopard for G5s, neither of which ever happened :D
 
Last edited:

jav6454

macrumors Core
Nov 14, 2007
22,303
6,263
1 Geostationary Tower Plaza
Apple said their transition would last 2 years, and they announced it back in 2020, so do you think they will complete the transition by announcing the Mac Pro and wait until the fall to release the new M2 or whatever it will be called?

I personally think they would be misleading people if they said the transition would last 2 years but it actually would be longer. It also seems likely because the last two Mac Pros have been announced at WWDC - the 2013 and the 2019.

What do you think about this?
Highly likely. It's Apple's last remaining Intel based Mac.
 

rm5

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Mar 4, 2022
2,936
3,388
United States
I see, like the Mac Mini that continued to be sold both as Intel and M1
Yep that’s true - there is still the Intel Mac mini. Good point, maybe they will keep the Intel Mac Pro around…

But I don’t agree with all the speculation about Apple announcing an M2 chip, because that would be weird to do at WWDC. Kind of like last year when people were saying that there would be an “M1X” launch at WWDC, which obviously didn’t happen.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pc297

pc297

macrumors 6502
Sep 26, 2015
336
207
Highly likely. It's Apple's last remaining Intel based Mac.
I don't know, Intel's latest chips including the i9 outperforms M1 and possibly M2, however these only make sense in a performance environment such as the Mac Pro, not in a laptop/compact/desktop power-limited environment such as the Mac Pro, Mac Mini and iMac. So I wouldn't be too surprised if they announce both an M1 Mac Pro and an updated Intel Mac Pro just in case, although this would be a major departure from previous transitions.
 

loby

macrumors 68000
Jul 1, 2010
1,879
1,507
Not sure if Apple DID say exactly that they will "replace" ALL Intel CPU's with Apple Silicon within two years (please correct me if I am incorrect), but said "we would transition within two years...".

Unfortunately, Apple likes to play with words carefully and will say various things loosely to cover themselves (understandable) or leave people questioning...

A "Transition" would be product lines moving from their current offerings to the next design. For consumers it is ok (they don't care), but for corporate or production houses etc., not "ok".

It may be possible that Apple continues Mac Pro with Intel CPUs because there is a market for it still. Many "Pros" went to Microsoft and Intel CPUs provided the best of both worlds if you are forced to use both platforms and apps for business and production. Mac Pro Intel is still a serious power house when you pay premium for it, so it may still be around for some time.

With the release of Mac Pro in 2019, Apple gave the impression that the new concept of expansion (2019 Mac Pro modular) would continue for some years after. From a business sense, it would not create confidence again for corporate users (after just two-three years) to klll off Mac Pro Intels after a "big" redesign and release in 2019 after Mac Pro 2013...especially in Production houses where they project a few years ahead and assume longevity for support. If you look again at the Mac Pro 2019 release...you don't get the impression that it is a temporary solution UNTIL Apple Silicon comes out (iMac Pro clearly was), but probably an "also" offering along with Silicone M series chips at least for a few more years.

But again...only time will tell. We will "see" in a week...
 

theluggage

macrumors 604
Jul 29, 2011
7,982
8,399
Not sure if Apple DID say exactly that they will "replace" ALL Intel CPU's with Apple Silicon within two years (please correct me if I am incorrect), but said "we would transition within two years...".

June 22 2020: "Apple plans to ship the first Mac with Apple silicon by the end of the year and complete the transition in about two years. Apple will continue to support and release new versions of macOS for Intel-based Macs for years to come, and has exciting new Intel-based Macs in development."
...so there's definitely no hard deadline about to expire on the 6th, you could argue that the two years will be the 2nd anniversary of the Air/Mini launch in November 2020 and there have been one or two little unforeseeable road bumps since then which give Apple a pretty good excuse for being late.

...and at the Mac Studio launch in March, Apple said that "there was just one more product to go" - Mac Pro, which was "for another day". I think Apple usually choose their words very carefully and while you could twist that into "we're going to announce, another day, the Mac Pro is staying with Intel" I think that's stretching credibility. Note, though, that Apple are still selling Intel Mac Minis so saying that a product has "transitioned" doesn't mean "we've stopped selling the Intel version".

From a business sense, it would not create confidence again for corporate users (after just two-three years) to klll off Mac Pro Intels after a "big" redesign and release in 2019 after Mac Pro 2013.

Yeah, I think that's more significant than what Apple may or may not have said about a 2 year transition. Pro users who may currently be thinking about specifying Mac Pro for an upcoming product are currently in limbo, with no clue as to what an Apple Silicon Mac Pro may comprise or how long the Intel version will continue for. Maybe the really top-tier customers have been given more info under NDA, but who knows?

What I still don't quite see is how Apple Silicon is going to work for something like the current Mac Pro. The M1 Ultra already delivers the raw performance, but the MP is also about supporting massive amounts of RAM and PCIe expansion, including discrete GPUs, afterburners etc. There are other uses for PCIe slots - e.g. specialist A/V input output cards - but they generally don't need all those resource-hungry 16-lane MPX slots. By contrast, many of Apple Silicon's strong points come from having everything, including GPUs and the rough equivalent of Afterburner, on-package if not on-die (and those also play a role in it's low power consumption). So while I don't know of any technical reason why Apple couldn't build a Xeon-killer chip with the necessary RAM and PCIe capacity, would there really be any big advantage, apart from scoring points against the x86 instruction set? Machines like the M1 Max MBP and the M1 Ultra Studio are what Apple Silicon is really good at.

Any new chip just for the Mac Pro - probably Apple's smallest-volume Mac - would be awfully expensive, too. And even if some sort of "quad" M1 Max chip did have the necessary RAM capacity, boy is it gonna cost, and producing different packages for every reasonable step from 128GB to 1.5TB would be cumbersome...

Really, this is an opportunity for Apple to do something "courageous" with the new Mac Pro, while keeping the reasonably-up-to-date Intel Mac Pro on the books for a while.

I'm going to stick with two wild, mad guesses for an Apple Silicon Mac Pro:

Option 1: Basically a rackmount M1 Ultra Studio (maybe with a couple of extra TB ports - if the M1 Max can support 4 then the Ultra ought to be able to support 8) - that can be paired with a (possibly 3rd party) TB to PCIe enclosure (which you wouldn't be expected to use for GPUs).

Option 2: M1 Max or Ultra on a MPX card - with a new "Mac Pro" that is basically just a MPX backplane but also compatible with existing Intel MPs. MPX would make sense for this as it adds extra power, thunderbolt and video connections to basic PCIe.

...both of those with a side-order of xGrid 2 to support cluster computing. No, that's not the same as more CPU/GPU cores, RAM or proper multi-processor architecture but the alternative is making that expensive, low volume custom ARM CPU.
 

loby

macrumors 68000
Jul 1, 2010
1,879
1,507
...so there's definitely no hard deadline about to expire on the 6th, you could argue that the two years will be the 2nd anniversary of the Air/Mini launch in November 2020 and there have been one or two little unforeseeable road bumps since then which give Apple a pretty good excuse for being late.

...and at the Mac Studio launch in March, Apple said that "there was just one more product to go" - Mac Pro, which was "for another day". I think Apple usually choose their words very carefully and while you could twist that into "we're going to announce, another day, the Mac Pro is staying with Intel" I think that's stretching credibility. Note, though, that Apple are still selling Intel Mac Minis so saying that a product has "transitioned" doesn't mean "we've stopped selling the Intel version".



Yeah, I think that's more significant than what Apple may or may not have said about a 2 year transition. Pro users who may currently be thinking about specifying Mac Pro for an upcoming product are currently in limbo, with no clue as to what an Apple Silicon Mac Pro may comprise or how long the Intel version will continue for. Maybe the really top-tier customers have been given more info under NDA, but who knows?

What I still don't quite see is how Apple Silicon is going to work for something like the current Mac Pro. The M1 Ultra already delivers the raw performance, but the MP is also about supporting massive amounts of RAM and PCIe expansion, including discrete GPUs, afterburners etc. There are other uses for PCIe slots - e.g. specialist A/V input output cards - but they generally don't need all those resource-hungry 16-lane MPX slots. By contrast, many of Apple Silicon's strong points come from having everything, including GPUs and the rough equivalent of Afterburner, on-package if not on-die (and those also play a role in it's low power consumption). So while I don't know of any technical reason why Apple couldn't build a Xeon-killer chip with the necessary RAM and PCIe capacity, would there really be any big advantage, apart from scoring points against the x86 instruction set? Machines like the M1 Max MBP and the M1 Ultra Studio are what Apple Silicon is really good at.

Any new chip just for the Mac Pro - probably Apple's smallest-volume Mac - would be awfully expensive, too. And even if some sort of "quad" M1 Max chip did have the necessary RAM capacity, boy is it gonna cost, and producing different packages for every reasonable step from 128GB to 1.5TB would be cumbersome...

Really, this is an opportunity for Apple to do something "courageous" with the new Mac Pro, while keeping the reasonably-up-to-date Intel Mac Pro on the books for a while.

I'm going to stick with two wild, mad guesses for an Apple Silicon Mac Pro:

Option 1: Basically a rackmount M1 Ultra Studio (maybe with a couple of extra TB ports - if the M1 Max can support 4 then the Ultra ought to be able to support 8) - that can be paired with a (possibly 3rd party) TB to PCIe enclosure (which you wouldn't be expected to use for GPUs).

Option 2: M1 Max or Ultra on a MPX card - with a new "Mac Pro" that is basically just a MPX backplane but also compatible with existing Intel MPs. MPX would make sense for this as it adds extra power, thunderbolt and video connections to basic PCIe.

...both of those with a side-order of xGrid 2 to support cluster computing. No, that's not the same as more CPU/GPU cores, RAM or proper multi-processor architecture but the alternative is making that expensive, low volume custom ARM CPU.
Option 3: Hybrid ? Probably not..

This is why a New Mac Pro is something that may be for the first time in a LONG TIME...something that will truly amaze the world. There has been no leaks so far about the new Mac Pro. If it is showcased next week...it might blow everyone's mind if it is something "totally New".

So far it seems that Apple Silicon works well if everything is contained with no expansion options or user service upgrades etc. Unless we see something "totally different"...then probably just an updated "all-in-one" option again, similar to Mac Studio but a power performance beast that is eye-watering in price...!
 

theluggage

macrumors 604
Jul 29, 2011
7,982
8,399
then probably just an updated "all-in-one" option again, similar to Mac Studio but a power performance beast that is eye-watering in price...!
Yeah... don't see the point in that when Apple are already claiming that the Studio Ultra outperforms the top-end 28 core Mac Pro. Just stitching together more and more M1 Max dies is going to give diminishing returns outside of very specialised applications and will be very expensive. Also, releasing what is effectively a Mac Studio Even-more-Ultra-er so soon is really going to tick off Studio Ultra owners.

USP of the current/classic Mac Pro is internal expansion and high-end AMD GPUs. If Apple want to try the Trashcan route again... well, that's basically what the Mac Studio is already. If you meant a new "iMac Pro" then I really don't see enough distinction between that and a Mac Studio Max or Ultra with your display of choice (Studio, XDR or third party).
 

pc297

macrumors 6502
Sep 26, 2015
336
207
The M1 Ultra already delivers the raw performance, but the MP is also about supporting massive amounts of RAM and PCIe expansion, including discrete GPUs, afterburners etc. There are other uses for PCIe slots - e.g. specialist A/V input output cards - but they generally don't need all those resource-hungry 16-lane MPX slots. By contrast, many of Apple Silicon's strong points come from having everything, including GPUs and the rough equivalent of Afterburner, on-package if not on-die (and those also play a role in it's low power consumption). So while I don't know of any technical reason why Apple couldn't build a Xeon-killer chip with the necessary RAM and PCIe capacity, would there really be any big advantage, apart from scoring points against the x86 instruction set? Machines like the M1 Max MBP and the M1 Ultra Studio are what Apple Silicon is really good at.
Good point, especially given that this supporting those on the M1 could likely require Apple to (finally) release eGPU extensions for Apple Silicon (another thing where we were left down). But given that there are already several ARM systems with PCIe GPU support out there, this shouldn't be too difficult.
 

jav6454

macrumors Core
Nov 14, 2007
22,303
6,263
1 Geostationary Tower Plaza
I don't know, Intel's latest chips including the i9 outperforms M1 and possibly M2, however these only make sense in a performance environment such as the Mac Pro, not in a laptop/compact/desktop power-limited environment such as the Mac Pro, Mac Mini and iMac. So I wouldn't be too surprised if they announce both an M1 Mac Pro and an updated Intel Mac Pro just in case, although this would be a major departure from previous transitions.
Have you not learned anything from Apple's design mantra? They like to tout overall General Purpose computing gains, but in the end, the M1 family is more towards enabling Macs to do what Macs are known for much better, media creation.

M1s crush Intel in that aspect and do it at a fraction of the power hit. Sure, M1s outperform better in certain tasks (multi-threads) and suck at others (single threaded), but it's Apple's software that makes it better.

A Mac Pro tuned in with the power of the M1 would be exceedingly powerful.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pc297

dgdosen

macrumors 68030
Dec 13, 2003
2,817
1,463
Seattle
Highly likely. It's Apple's last remaining Intel based Mac.
There's still that Mac and the "high-end mac mini":

I'd expect both updates to be announced at WWDC (maybe not shipping until later in the year). Apple will be able to show a slide noting the "two-year Intel transition is complete".
 
  • Like
Reactions: loby

jav6454

macrumors Core
Nov 14, 2007
22,303
6,263
1 Geostationary Tower Plaza
There's still that Mac and the "high-end mac mini":

I'd expect both updates to be announced at WWDC (maybe not shipping until later in the year). Apple will be able to show a slide noting the "two-year Intel transition is complete".
The "high-end" Mac mini will probably be discontinued as one could argue the Mac Studio now fulfills that role.
 

Tagbert

macrumors 603
Jun 22, 2011
6,234
7,270
Seattle
Yep that’s true - there is still the Intel Mac mini. Good point, maybe they will keep the Intel Mac Pro around…

But I don’t agree with all the speculation about Apple announcing an M2 chip, because that would be weird to do at WWDC. Kind of like last year when people were saying that there would be an “M1X” launch at WWDC, which obviously didn’t happen.
Of course they did announce Apple Silicon at WWDC in 2020. Apple has often announced hardware at the conference. Usually the hardware has some "professional" connection but sometimes it's just a HomePod.
 

pc297

macrumors 6502
Sep 26, 2015
336
207
Have you not learned anything from Apple's design mantra? They like to tout overall General Purpose computing gains, but in the end, the M1 family is more towards enabling Macs to do what Macs are known for much better, media creation.

M1s crush Intel in that aspect and do it at a fraction of the power hit. Sure, M1s outperform better in certain tasks (multi-threads) and suck at others (single threaded), but it's Apple's software that makes it better.

A Mac Pro tuned in with the power of the M1 would be exceedingly powerful.
Very true. A bit like let's say gaming consoles that have always used inferior CPUs compared to PCs that have more than at times produced a gaming experience far ahead of what one could get on the PC.

Apple has always managed to make macs more powerful than PCs with CPUs always lagging behind in raw power and MHz, notably the in the entire m68k and powerpc series, then all-the-more powerful using the same CPUs, and now even more so with better CPUs than Intel :) So better for both raw power AND media creation.
 

Bodhitree

macrumors 68020
Apr 5, 2021
2,068
2,200
Netherlands
Apple has always managed to make macs more powerful than PCs with CPUs always lagging behind in raw power and MHz, notably the in the entire m68k and powerpc series, then all-the-more powerful using the same CPUs, and now even more so with better CPUs than Intel :) So better for both raw power AND media creation.

I recall seeing some like-for-like tests which showed that Windows 11 was faster than MacOS Monterey, given the same hardware and compiler suite. I remember thinking, that’s an interesting data point, but didn’t save the article.
 

jav6454

macrumors Core
Nov 14, 2007
22,303
6,263
1 Geostationary Tower Plaza
Very true. A bit like let's say gaming consoles that have always used inferior CPUs compared to PCs that have more than at times produced a gaming experience far ahead of what one could get on the PC.

Apple has always managed to make macs more powerful than PCs with CPUs always lagging behind in raw power and MHz, notably the in the entire m68k and powerpc series, then all-the-more powerful using the same CPUs, and now even more so with better CPUs than Intel :) So better for both raw power AND media creation.
With consoles, the hardware is dedicated to games. There are no other backend processes running except those required to make the game work. Also, software is written to take into account one specific hardware set and hence it is made to run efficiently at it.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.