Will Apple change the Macbook's form factor / design for ARM laptops and add touchscreen support?

[hungryghosty]

This is something I've been wondering about regarding the design of the upcoming ARM laptops? Specifically I'm curious whether we'll see any design changes to the devices.

We know from WWDC that ARM Macbook will be able to natively run iPad IOS apps but many of these will be unusuable without a touchscreen. I know they've said in the past they won't but they've added keyboard and mouse/trackpad support to IOS so it doesn't seem like much of a leap to assume MacOS will get touchscreen support.

However I'd agree that touchscreens on laptops can generally be pretty uncomfortable to use in their standard form factor with the screen so far away. So that make me think perhaps they'll go with something like the Microsoft Surface with a detachable/retractable fold out keyboard. Or possibly a 360 degree hinge so it can be folded back on itself like some of the lenovo devices. Maybe even something similar to the current keyboard add-on for the iPad Pro?

Also, will they retain the controversial Touchbar which has featured on MacBook Pro's for the last few years given it's never really appealed to many users. The fact it never made it's way onto a Macbook Air or a Mac Pro standalone keyboard makes me think Apple are getting ready to drop it in the near future.

What are your thoughts on the design and form factor for the upcoming ARM Macbooks? Will we see more convergence between MacOS / iPadOS as time goes by.

 

[leman]

Touchscreen: no, there are no changes to API that indicate touch support on desktop. They are going sidecar route instead. No changes evident for the Touch Bar. Don’t think they will drop it. A laptop needs multimedia controls of some kind and physical keys are suboptimal for this.

 

[hungryghosty]

Your might be right but it just seems ubelievable that Apple would simply replace the CPU with an ARM one and change nothing else given how dated the current MacBook designs are. If they wanted to introduce something to differentiate current Intel devices from newer ones this switchover is the perfect opportunity.

Seems likely they'll add FaceID to any new MacBook IMO. Everyone complains about the 720p webcam in the current lineup so you'd assume that'll also be replaced with something better off the iPad lineup to allow FaceID to work.

 

[KPOM]

It is unlikely to happen right away, but I do see Apple eventually adding touch support to macOS. While iOS/iPadOS apps will “run” on Macs with Apple Silicon, without a touchscreen the experience will be less than ideal, and not every developer will port them to Macs using Catalyst.

But I can see Apple eventually releasing a 13-14” iPad/Mac hybrid. iPadOS has added trackpad support, and Big Sur is increasing the space between menu items and harmonizing the UI. Apple tends to think long-term, and a new generation is entering the workforce and has only ever known touch-centric computing devices.

 

[boss.king]

I see a touchscreen Mac being inevitable. They’ve already allowed iPads to be used as displays with sidecar, and now the iOSification of MacOS just makes it all the more likely.

All I hope is that it happens sooner rather than later and when it does they put the touchbar in the bin, where it belongs.

 

[HowardEv]

I hope the “new form factor“ we heard about incorporates the new wireless display technology that was prototypes for the “stationary base” VR goggles. So the new form factor for Mac would be a base station with battery that can wirelessly connect to display.
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[psingh01]

I don’t know about the macbook, but I imagine future Mac minis to be much smaller.

 

[2984839]

A touchscreen is the worst input method ever devised. I detest the one on my phone, refuse to buy a tablet because of it, and genuinely don't have any use at all for one on a laptop, and I have had a touchscreen laptop for years.

 

[Moonjumper]

Having separated iPadOS from iOS, I don’t think any OS unification is on the cards. Touchscreen still doesn’t suit macOS. But we might see a thinner MacBook. The Pro could stay the same thickness, but with much more power, differentiating the models more.

 

[leman]

and now the iOSification of MacOS just makes it all the more likely

What "iOSification"? People have been claiming this for ten years, but somehow iOS and macOS are still separate.

 

[1221320]

The only thing I really want in a redesign is a better screen-to-body ratio, with reduced bezels. Some PC laptops have absolutely microscopic bezels. Macbooks look so dated in comparison.

 

[boss.king]

What "iOSification"? People have been claiming this for ten years, but somehow iOS and macOS are still separate.

Did you miss the UI changes they made in Big Sur? MacOS now has a control center for toggles that is pretty similar to the one you get on an iPhone, the dock and icons more closely match those on iOS, and that's not even mentioning the fact that ARM Macs will be able to install and run iOS apps.

There are obviously still differences, but they're moving down paths that will converge at some point in the future.

 

[leman]

Did you miss the UI changes they made in Big Sur? MacOS now has a control center for toggles that is pretty similar to the one you get on an iPhone, the dock and icons more closely match those on iOS, and that's not even mentioning the fact that ARM Macs will be able to install and run iOS apps.

There are obviously still differences, but they're moving down paths that will converge at some point in the future.

No, I didn’t miss them,I’ve been using Big Sur as a main system for couple of days now. The control center is a useful new addition, and it’s about time they unified the visual language for their platforms - it simplifies software development and improves the user experience.

You are getting lost in cosmetics. The difference between macOS and iOS is not how they look, but what functionality they offer. Big Sur does not take any of the desktop features away, it just adds some of the useful features first introduced on mobile.

 

[Takuro]

I think this fall we'll see a MacBook Pro that's identical or nearly identical to the current one from a looks perspective, but with an ARM chip and possibly USB 4. I think we'll see a final spec bumped Intel iMac soon. Both will get more radical redesigns in 2021 in a dedicated hardware event. The big hardware focus at the end of this year will be the iPhone 12 with 5G, so that timeline would help space apart the more major hardware announcements showcasing the next gen Mac design language.

 

[boss.king]

No, I didn’t miss them,I’ve been using Big Sur as a main system for couple of days now. The control center is a useful new addition, and it’s about time they unified the visual language for their platforms - it simplifies software development and improves the user experience.

You are getting lost in cosmetics. The difference between macOS and iOS is not how they look, but what functionality they offer. Big Sur does not take any of the desktop features away, it just adds some of the useful features first introduced on mobile.

I'm not getting lost in anything, you just misunderstood what I said. The topic was whether or not touchscreens would come to ARM Macs. The move of MacOS UI to something that more closely resembles iOS (a touch-based interface) is a massive indicator that touch is on the way. I never said anything about taking away desktop features.

 

[leman]

I'm not getting lost in anything, you just misunderstood what I said. The topic was whether or not touchscreens would come to ARM Macs. The move of MacOS UI to something that more closely resembles iOS (a touch-based interface) is a massive indicator that touch is on the way. I never said anything about taking away desktop features.

Ah, I see, sorry, I misunderstood. Too many people talking about Apple abandoning desktop, I suppose it triggers me ?

Anyway, I don’t see any evidence that the new interface is more touch friendly. It has just been cosmetically uplifted to look more in line with iOS. But the controls etc. they are still pretty much designed with a pointer in mind.

 

[boss.king]

Ah, I see, sorry, I misunderstood. Too many people talking about Apple abandoning desktop, I suppose it triggers me ?

Anyway, I don’t see any evidence that the new interface is more touch friendly. It has just been cosmetically uplifted to look more in line with iOS. But the controls etc. they are still pretty much designed with a pointer in mind.

No problem, it happens to us all.

I think they're obviously trying to strike a balance between being mouse and finger-friendly, and that's always going to be tough. I just can't see how the Big Sur control center would be the optimal design if they weren't intending for people to eventually have the option to use their finger. And similarly, they're going to run into real problems with iOS apps running on the Mac if the trackpad is the only touch interface you get.

 

[KoolAid-Drink]

What "iOSification"? People have been claiming this for ten years, but somehow iOS and macOS are still separate.

iOSification officially started as a trend with Mac OS X v10.7 Lion, according to many, with the UI changes such as iCal, etc., at the time, and with OS X v10.10 Yosemite, with the newer, iOS 7-inspired UI. However, I think iOSification of the Mac started way before that. Examples:

• Mac OS X v10.4 Tiger (2005)'s Dashboards were iOS-sized widgets, along with the grey "linen" pattern background when customizing a widget.
• Mac OS X v10.5 Leopard (2007)'s Time Machine system preferences UI included the sliding "bar" button, straight from iOS, to turn on/off Time Machine backups.
• Mac OS X v10.6 Snow Leopard (2009)'s "no new features" release was thought to contain no new features, because the focus was on the iPad/iOS then, and to optimize the system code, which was focused mostly on mobile optimizations such as Grand Central.
• Language referring to software programs were widely referenced to as "applications" in the Mac OS system, from all the way back in System 1. Starting in Mac OS X v10.2 Jaguar (2002), evidenced by going to DigitalColor Meter, then clicking Preferences, you could see the term "apps" there ("Float windows above other apps"). This use of the term "app(s)" was very rare back then, as the longer "application(s)" term was used otherwise. Starting around Mac OS X v10.8 Mountain Lion (2012), "app(s)" became more commonly used in lieu of "application(s)", on the Mac side. Nowadays, it's very rare to see the full "application(s)" term anywhere in iOS, iPadOS, and macOS, with a few exceptions. Side note: I very much prefer the fully spelled out "application(s)". It feels more thoughtful and less 'dumbed down', if that makes any sense.
• One could argue that Mac OS 9 (1999)'s architecture resembled iOS a bit more than Mac OS X, given how more "locked down" it was and more opaque (vague file system/structure, no Console, etc.).

So, yeah, "iOSification" of the Mac has been in the works for a long, long, long time now. This has been a long-term plan, methinks. Mac OS X actually turned the tide from Mac OS 9 to be a more open, Unix-style system, but the pendulum has been slowly swinging backwards since around 10.6 or so, despite a few smaller hints in earlier versions of the Mac OS.

My two cents, and yes, I know, a bit long-winded.

 

[dgdosen]

I see a touchscreen Mac being inevitable.

This is now completely obvious to me. It's noted in this article: https://sixcolors.com/post/2020/07/what-changes-might-be-coming-to-new-mac-hardware/ and on the 7/9 ATP podcast.

I've only played with Big Sur a bit - but yes, the UI is touchable... So it's just a matter of time.

I also agree with ATP - in that it makes no sense to have a TouchBar and touchscreen. That is just wrong. So Apple will have to figure that out before they go full touch.

 

[boss.king]

This is now completely obvious to me. It's noted in this article: https://sixcolors.com/post/2020/07/what-changes-might-be-coming-to-new-mac-hardware/ and on the 7/9 ATP podcast.

I've only played with Big Sur a bit - but yes, the UI is touchable... So it's just a matter of time.

I agree with ATP - in that it makes no sense to have a TouchBar and touchscreen. That is just wrong. So Apple will have to figure that out before they go full touch.

Yeah, I've found that ATP echoes a lot of my own thoughts regarding the direction that the Mac is headed in.

 

[awesomedeluxe]

All I hope is that it happens sooner rather than later and when it does they put the touchbar in the bin, where it belongs.

I also agree with ATP - in that it makes no sense to have a TouchBar and touchscreen. That is just wrong. So Apple will have to figure that out before they go full touch.

Well, maybe. If it's just a Mac with a touchscreen.

But if it's a Surface Book the touchbar could be kind of useful. The GPU in the book has to go way up near the hinge to talk to the CPU in the tablet. So it would be under the touchbar now. You could give the keyboard keys a little more travel since there's just a battery under there now and there's also a battery up behind the screen.

I think this fall we'll see a MacBook Pro that's identical or nearly identical to the current one from a looks perspective, but with an ARM chip and possibly USB 4. I think we'll see a final spec bumped Intel iMac soon. Both will get more radical redesigns in 2021 in a dedicated hardware event. The big hardware focus at the end of this year will be the iPhone 12 with 5G, so that timeline would help space apart the more major hardware announcements showcasing the next gen Mac design language.

If we get a laptop this year with an older chassis, I'd choose the Air. The Air is already designed around a 10W processor which is kind of perfect for an Apple SoC.

The MBP 13 chassis maybe works without modification if you wanna make an SoC with like, 8 perf cores and 16 graphics cores. I'd bin the MBP 16 chassis ASAP though.

 

[Jmausmuc]

Many laptops have touchscreens these days but I hardly ever see somebody use them.
A few years ago they gave everybody at my company Microsoft Surface Books (the one with the detachable screen). Horrible, top heavy machines with tons of issues.

everybody just used them like regular laptops and only used the touchscreen very rarely.
I think it would be the same with Macs.

 

[Spungoflex]

I'm hoping for a return of the 12" Macbook. I have to think Apple really liked that form factor but had to ditch it after being let down by Intel.

 

[MacDaddyPanda]

I would Imagine Ipads and Macbooks sort of merging to become the same device? Replacing MacMini, Macbook, MacbookAir? While the Macbook Pros and Mac Pro will still use INtel CPUs unless you all think ARM can compete with those platforms performance wise?

 

[Spungoflex]

I would Imagine Ipads and Macbooks sort of merging to become the same device? Replacing MacMini, Macbook, MacbookAir? While the Macbook Pros and Mac Pro will still use INtel CPUs unless you all think ARM can compete with those platforms performance wise?

They are transitioning all products away from Intel within 2 years.