Will Apple Go Back to Allowing User Upgrades/Repairs?

[TechRunner]

I found this article on The Verge interesting:

Dell’s Luna laptop concept is all about repairability

The keyboard and screen pop right off, no screwdrivers needed.

www.theverge.com

I wonder if the industry is swinging back this way, and if Apple will follow. Their iFixit scores, as you well know, are pretty bad at the moment.

Is change for Apple in the air? (pun intended)

 

[wonderings]

I think it will take them being forced to do that. The Apple community really only has itself to blame for this, applauding and cheering on each step away from the brilliance of Jobs and the balance of function and form. Apple is back peddling on a lot of things now, mag safe, ports, etc. Personally I have trouble recommending Apple computers anymore as they are so locked down, not even RAM or hard drive updates anymore. If Apple would stop patting themselves on the back as they tell everyone how great they are they might see they are not really helping anyone, save the people who can afford the high price tag for an Apple computer.

I think at very minimum we should be able to replace/upgrade RAM and hard drives with relative ease.

 

[TechRunner]

I think at very minimum we should be able to replace/upgrade RAM and hard drives with relative ease.

I totally agree.

 

[opeter]

Is change for Apple in the air? (pun intended)

Hopefully, yes.

I also have to admit, that if the Mac mini (2014), that I am using, dies, I probably wont to invest in an Apple computer in the future, because these things are more and more locked down...

 

[fwmireault]

I don’t think apple will ever be the leader in reparability because of their integrated hardware and all the money they are making from that. But I also don’t think they will go back to their decision to create their repair program, it would be a controversial decision. I just think that the program will expand slower than competition, and will be more limited at least for the near future

 

[theluggage]

I found this article on The Verge interesting:

We'll see whether that ever sees the light of day - but there's also the Framework Laptop which you can actually buy (er, subject to availability...). That looks rather nice - except the I/O is a bit limited (only 4 ports and no Thunderbolt/USB4).

There's also Apple's new Self-Repair Program which is supposedly rolling out to Macs real soon now.

These things all depend on the price and availability of parts and tools, of course. Laptops are never going to be like PC Desktops with truly interchangeable components from multiple sources - especially if people don't want them as thick as a brick... although standard SSD blades (as in the framework and some other laptops) are a start.

I think at very minimum we should be able to replace/upgrade RAM and hard drives with relative ease.

In the case of RAM, the limitation is that LPDDR RAM is only available in surface-mount chip form - there's no equivalent of the standard plug-in DIMM - for good reasons, because the data lines to the CPU need to be kept as short as possible to achieve high speed at low power. With the M1, having the RAM integrated in the SoC package gives a performance advantage. In the case of RAM, Apple's problem is the ridiculous prices they charge for BTO RAM upgrades, encouraging people to cut corners: it's 2021 and having 16 (consumer) or 32 (pro) GB of RAM on a premium laptop shouldn't be an expensive luxury.

Soldered-in SSDs are harder to defend (unless you're talking about mobile/tablet devices) - maybe they get some speed/power advantage from surface mounting, but the the read/write speed of the medium itself is still an order of magnitude slower than RAM so that's not obvious. Also, SSD still has a limited number of write cycles - so not making it replaceable is just potty (let alone using 'because security' as an excuse for making it non-replaceable). OK, the expected lifetime of SSD "under normal conditions" may compare favourably with the MTBF of mechanical HDs, but, then, mechanical HDs are typical replaceable... and it's quite conceivable for a software bug or malware (or excessive swapping because Apple made you nickel-and-dime yourself on RAM) to cause an abnormal level of SSD writes...

 

[Madhatter32]

Apple clearly has adopted the disposable appliance model, which is clearly not consumer friendly -- not to mention bad for the environment. Until it, at minimum, allows consumers to conduct their own battery replacement (with OEM parts) and RAM upgrades, then it should not claim to be a environmentally customer focused company. I hope change is in the air but I am not optimistic.

 

[wonderings]

We'll see whether that ever sees the light of day - but there's also the Framework Laptop which you can actually buy (er, subject to availability...). That looks rather nice - except the I/O is a bit limited (only 4 ports and no Thunderbolt/USB4).

There's also Apple's new Self-Repair Program which is supposedly rolling out to Macs real soon now.

These things all depend on the price and availability of parts and tools, of course. Laptops are never going to be like PC Desktops with truly interchangeable components from multiple sources - especially if people don't want them as thick as a brick... although standard SSD blades (as in the framework and some other laptops) are a start.



In the case of RAM, the limitation is that LPDDR RAM is only available in surface-mount chip form - there's no equivalent of the standard plug-in DIMM - for good reasons, because the data lines to the CPU need to be kept as short as possible to achieve high speed at low power. With the M1, having the RAM integrated in the SoC package gives a performance advantage. In the case of RAM, Apple's problem is the ridiculous prices they charge for BTO RAM upgrades, encouraging people to cut corners: it's 2021 and having 16 (consumer) or 32 (pro) GB of RAM on a premium laptop shouldn't be an expensive luxury.

Soldered-in SSDs are harder to defend (unless you're talking about mobile/tablet devices) - maybe they get some speed/power advantage from surface mounting, but the the read/write speed of the medium itself is still an order of magnitude slower than RAM so that's not obvious. Also, SSD still has a limited number of write cycles - so not making it replaceable is just potty (let alone using 'because security' as an excuse for making it non-replaceable). OK, the expected lifetime of SSD "under normal conditions" may compare favourably with the MTBF of mechanical HDs, but, then, mechanical HDs are typical replaceable... and it's quite conceivable for a software bug or malware (or excessive swapping because Apple made you nickel-and-dime yourself on RAM) to cause an abnormal level of SSD writes...

What is the real benefit of getting slimmer than we are now or were before? It looks cool sure, but this is the sacrifice of function to form. Weight can still go down while maintaining options. As for hard drives I am sure Apple could make something super simple and no longer are SSD's required, M.2 drives are amazing and super small. My PC that I built only uses a 1 TB M.2 mounted right on the mother board with an option for one other M.2 drive plus traditional drives. These are serious space savers and not expensive. We are stuck with Apples proprietary hardware that I don't think is really worth the lack of options and upgradeability anymore. Apple can make amazing hardware that is easy to work on and stylish at the same time, they have done this in the past many many times. From the beginnings of the iMac with easy change RAM to the PowerMac G4's which I still think is a super slick setup with the case opening up on the side and having full an easy access to everything. The list goes on till they moved towards being thinner was more important then the ability to do the most basic of upgrades. You can't even pay Apple to upgrade your RAM on a MacBook now, once you buy it that is it. Not sure why anyone (myself included) settles for this. I won't be buying new Mac's till some serious changes to their lineup happens.

 

[TiggrToo]

Given the move to the M1 SoC design, not sure how viable any of this is.

There's apparently a price to be paid for power efficiency and speed.

Pick two: efficiency & speed, upgradabilty, cost. You can't have all three.

 

[TechRunner]

Given the move to the M1 SoC design, not sure how viable any of this is.

That's why I found what Dell is considering so interesting.

 

[TiggrToo]

That's why I found what Dell is considering so interesting.

“But by 2030, he would “certainly expect” many of these design concepts to be implemented.”

An awful amount can change between now and then. And remember Dell’s announcement is just a concept release - there’s nothing tangible about any of it and they could easily find technical limitations that curtail their aspirations.

 

[TechRunner]

“But by 2030, he would “certainly expect” many of these design concepts to be implemented.”

An awful amount can change between now and then. And remember Dell’s announcement is just a concept release - there’s nothing tangible about any of it and they could easily find technical limitations that curtail their aspirations.

Exactly. But I'm wondering if they're hearing some noise from the marketplace which is leading them to consider messing around with concepts like these. Lots of people on these forums have been vocal about the subject, for sure!

And you're spot on: 2030 is a long time away in technology time!

 

[wonderings]

Given the move to the M1 SoC design, not sure how viable any of this is.

There's apparently a price to be paid for power efficiency and speed.

Pick two: efficiency & speed, upgradabilty, cost. You can't have all three.

Is there though? Or is this only the case because of the route Apple has chosen to go?

 

[TiggrToo]

Is there though? Or is this only the case because of the route Apple has chosen to go?

System on Chip architecture is always going to be faster and more efficient.

The laws of physics state as much.

 

[ouimetnick]

Soldered ram is fine since there is a performance increase having the memory as close to the CPU as possible. I don't like SSDs being soldered though. If the logic board fails, your data is gone (if you didn't backup) Unfortunately many people don't back up their data, so they are screwed when they spill a beverage on their computer.

 

[BreakYurAnkles]

Soldered ram is fine since there is a performance increase having the memory as close to the CPU as possible. I don't like SSDs being soldered though. If the logic board fails, your data is gone (if you didn't backup) Unfortunately many people don't back up their data, so they are screwed when they spill a beverage on their computer.

Apple USED TO have a "lifeboat" connection to recover data.

then went on to screw every MacBook user with their data recovery.

and a definitive NO on user repair and upgradeability.

that kills profits and helps apple kill the environment.

 

[MBAir2010]

2012 was the last year someone could replace or upgrade vital components their MacBook, mini and maybe iMac.
which was soon, 10 years ago, and they profit big time since then.

 

[NT1440]

Hopefully, yes.

I also have to admit, that if the Mac mini (2014), that I am using, dies, I probably wont to invest in an Apple computer in the future, because these things are more and more locked down...

The 2014 Mac mini doesn’t have upgradeable RAM. What exactly did you upgrade in the last 7 years? I put an SSD in the one I have at work, but yours is still in use 7 years later? What’s different about the current gen from your usage of the 2014?

 

[opeter]

I did also upgrade the internal HDD to an SATA SSD.

I am using it as a "scanning workstation", that has been connected to an older A/3 scanner (Umax Powerlook 2100 XL).

Saldy, it seems, that I will soon have to say fareweel to the scanner, because I simply canot get the spare parts for it.

The light unit was replaced three times in the past 20 years. I've had luck and got another scanner about 6 years ago from the same series so that I could combine the good parts from the two into one, but now I am out of ideas.

 

[emmab2006]

Sorry.. let me pick my self up, Apple Reverse a Hardware Decesion like that which brings them more money?…No. i dont think so, as much as we would all like it, apple are set in there ways, I’m having to save 3 grand to get a MacBook Pro 16 m1 max to be screwed on the SSD storage

 

[BreakYurAnkles]

Sorry.. let me pick my self up, Apple Reverse a Hardware Decesion like that which brings them more money?…No. i dont think so, as much as we would all like it, apple are set in there ways, I’m having to save 3 grand to get a MacBook Pro 16 m1 max to be screwed on the SSD storage

capitalism at its finest.