Will it be farewell OS 9 on the 24th?? Just want to know what you guys think and whether you can live without OS 9 at the moment...
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Will it be farewell OS 9 on the 24th?
- Thread starter j763
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it will happen at some point. and probably sooner than we all will expect. but gonna say no. classic will be around for awhile.ive read some rumors (maybe here) that classic will eventually be changed into more of an app that one can not boot into but will only function as classic. frankly i dont buy it, but it was interesting to hear.
i think osx just has far too many bugs to not allow users the option of booting into os9.
first thing most users do ive found is go to startup disk switch to os9 and nevr think about osx again. its just too slow too buggy for most people.
app are no longer the problem for most people. especially once ps is shipping and macromedia ware is shipping.
i think we have many more months with the osx/os9 duality.
everyone ive known we installs osx now who hasnt ever used it before has major troubles and keeps commenting on all the bugs and things they cant do.
we will have os9 as long as:
1) apple's processors are playing catchup with the osx
2) there are still blatant bugs in the GUI
bugs elsewhere are tolerable because low level users dont notice them. and once apple makes a mac that can run osx smoothly osx wont be painful anymore.
hey maybe 10.2 will speed things up enough and fix enough bugs to fulfill both of these things though...
Nice thought, but I'm gonna agree with 'Lemon.
There are still far too many apps that don't run natively in OS X for Apple to drop Classic.
And the OS performance factor we've all been discussing lately is still a major issue.
There are still far too many apps that don't run natively in OS X for Apple to drop Classic.
And the OS performance factor we've all been discussing lately is still a major issue.
typoit should read like this:
everyone ive known who installs osx now, who hasnt ever used it before, has major troubles and keeps commenting on all the bugs and things they cant do.
My OS 9 is screwed up so basically I can only use X. After using it for 4 months straight the only "major" problem I have is VPC. Its so darn slow! What I like with OS X is that if one app is busy I can move onto another.. etc... OS X is pretty usefull for me, once you learn how to live with it, you can deal with it.
Maybe you guys don't have 867 quicksilvers so OS X is extremely slow (I know what it feels like, I have a iBook 366mhz), but running X on a Quicksilver makes it really quite snappy. Especially if you turn it into 1024x768 it becomes like 9. The only problem is my 17" Studio Display doesn't look nice when its crancked down to 1024x768 and I have to stay with 1280x1024 which makes X turn a little slower but don't worry it's handellbable(?) it!
All of you who own "Dual 800's & dual 1000's" I envy you!
Maybe you guys don't have 867 quicksilvers so OS X is extremely slow (I know what it feels like, I have a iBook 366mhz), but running X on a Quicksilver makes it really quite snappy. Especially if you turn it into 1024x768 it becomes like 9. The only problem is my 17" Studio Display doesn't look nice when its crancked down to 1024x768 and I have to stay with 1280x1024 which makes X turn a little slower but don't worry it's handellbable(?) it!
All of you who own "Dual 800's & dual 1000's" I envy you!
handellbable???
While I don't share AmbitiousLemon's OS X bugginess experiences (not since 10.1 anyway), I have to agree that OS 9 will be around for some time yet. I don't see any real need on Apple's part to rush to get rid of it. I think the advantages of X as it becomes a more mature OS will take care of the migration of users to X over the next year.
Maybe a year from now, Apple will stop including 9, but for those who feel they need it, Apple will allow you to mail a card in to get a "free" copy for $19.95.
While I don't share AmbitiousLemon's OS X bugginess experiences (not since 10.1 anyway), I have to agree that OS 9 will be around for some time yet. I don't see any real need on Apple's part to rush to get rid of it. I think the advantages of X as it becomes a more mature OS will take care of the migration of users to X over the next year.
Maybe a year from now, Apple will stop including 9, but for those who feel they need it, Apple will allow you to mail a card in to get a "free" copy for $19.95.
not a chance in hell
for one thing, its been rumored (or mentioned, I dont remember) that theyll be getting up to 9.3 or 9.4 or something before they leave classic
also, some major audio apps are yet to move over, and there are a *lot* of gadgets still not supported (like my printer, flash card reader, my other printer >_<)
not to mention apple employees themselves still use 9 to "get the dirty work done" (or at least so says a guy I know who works in the apple store design/decoration dept.)
for one thing, its been rumored (or mentioned, I dont remember) that theyll be getting up to 9.3 or 9.4 or something before they leave classic
also, some major audio apps are yet to move over, and there are a *lot* of gadgets still not supported (like my printer, flash card reader, my other printer >_<)
not to mention apple employees themselves still use 9 to "get the dirty work done" (or at least so says a guy I know who works in the apple store design/decoration dept.)
no. dvdsp an apple product wont run in classic. needs a reboot into 9.
i must be on drugs. os x appears to run fast and without fault for me.
no crashes, freezes or looping clocks. fcp can have apps set as external editors, eg after effects can be set as an external editor. you want to change some compositing. ae opens while fcp is open, change the composite, render. go back to working with fcp while ae render is happening. same story with photoshop, (opens in classic). i have to buy the upgrade for ps to 7 and wait for apple to release an os x dvdsp, then 9 goes in the trash. goodbye to the past.
tmw could see dvdsp for x. with or without spruce technology.
i must be on drugs. os x appears to run fast and without fault for me.
no crashes, freezes or looping clocks. fcp can have apps set as external editors, eg after effects can be set as an external editor. you want to change some compositing. ae opens while fcp is open, change the composite, render. go back to working with fcp while ae render is happening. same story with photoshop, (opens in classic). i have to buy the upgrade for ps to 7 and wait for apple to release an os x dvdsp, then 9 goes in the trash. goodbye to the past.
tmw could see dvdsp for x. with or without spruce technology.
what are all you complaining about? The only bugs I have found is when using a dialup modem!! Annoying but will be sorted out soon. Window resizing needs to be sped up, but apart from that I really like OSX. The only reason I go into classic is to use my scanning software. Of course all OSX speed improvements are welcome but its not really that bad at all.
A challenge for OS9 users, use OSX full time for 2 weeks + then tell me you want to go back to OS9!! I found that using OSX for the first time was a struggle until I got used it, but now I would not use OS9 unless I could help it. GIVE IT A CHANCE and stop complaining.
I reckon OS9 will be around until september / october!!! By this time, all major apps will be here and apple will want to push the transition along.
A challenge for OS9 users, use OSX full time for 2 weeks + then tell me you want to go back to OS9!! I found that using OSX for the first time was a struggle until I got used it, but now I would not use OS9 unless I could help it. GIVE IT A CHANCE and stop complaining.
I reckon OS9 will be around until september / october!!! By this time, all major apps will be here and apple will want to push the transition along.
Re: Classic 9.3
The last time I checked (which was in 2001) www.macosrumors.com had this report of an update to Classic 9.3, which can stand alone and operate in a computer without OS X. Classic 9.4 and 9.5 must run with OS X.
Apparently, I need Classic. I have a $40 Graphing Calculator program, which I want to update to Version 3, but the guys at Pacific Tech say that they are not going to support OS X.
Originally posted by Choppaface
not a chance in hell
for one thing, its been rumored (or mentioned, I dont remember) that theyll be getting up to 9.3 or 9.4 or something before they leave classic
The last time I checked (which was in 2001) www.macosrumors.com had this report of an update to Classic 9.3, which can stand alone and operate in a computer without OS X. Classic 9.4 and 9.5 must run with OS X.
Apparently, I need Classic. I have a $40 Graphing Calculator program, which I want to update to Version 3, but the guys at Pacific Tech say that they are not going to support OS X.
9.3-9.4-9.5
I think that classic will be updated to 9.5 or so. And you will be able to run it without MacOS X, but the updates from now on will only be updates which will make classic better to use in osx but when you run it without os x : it will stay the same as 9.1.
So for the more classic people : no problem, when 9.5 is no longer accesseble without osx, you can still crawl back to your good old beige with 7.6.1.
I think that classic will be updated to 9.5 or so. And you will be able to run it without MacOS X, but the updates from now on will only be updates which will make classic better to use in osx but when you run it without os x : it will stay the same as 9.1.
So for the more classic people : no problem, when 9.5 is no longer accesseble without osx, you can still crawl back to your good old beige with 7.6.1.
and just to let all you guys know, all school are still running 9 with many of them not even having 10 on the hard drive at all.
10.1.3 works beautifully. Classic will be around for some time I'm sure, but let's face it, OS 9 is already dead.
Good riddance to bad rubbish - OS 9 was not so much an operating system, more an application launcher, and a bad one at that! The original Mac OS was brilliant in the 80s, dated in the 90s and is exctinct in the new millennium!
Time to move on - OS X is the future, and Apple's last and only hope.
Good riddance to bad rubbish - OS 9 was not so much an operating system, more an application launcher, and a bad one at that! The original Mac OS was brilliant in the 80s, dated in the 90s and is exctinct in the new millennium!
Time to move on - OS X is the future, and Apple's last and only hope.
9 is still essential
I find that for some odd reason or another, I still need to boot 9 about once a week. Often times it's becaue OSX won't let me put files where I want to (sometimes this even includes the trash can.) I still need 9, but each month I use it less and less.
Hey Apple, if you're listening "LET ME PUT MY FILES WHERE I WANT TO, AND DO WHAT I WANT WITH THEM!!!!! I'M NOT A WINBLOWS USER, I'M INTELLIGENT, I CAN TAKE CARE OF MYSELF AND MY COMPUTER!!!!"
I find that for some odd reason or another, I still need to boot 9 about once a week. Often times it's becaue OSX won't let me put files where I want to (sometimes this even includes the trash can.) I still need 9, but each month I use it less and less.
Hey Apple, if you're listening "LET ME PUT MY FILES WHERE I WANT TO, AND DO WHAT I WANT WITH THEM!!!!! I'M NOT A WINBLOWS USER, I'M INTELLIGENT, I CAN TAKE CARE OF MYSELF AND MY COMPUTER!!!!"
Why get rid of OS9?
Most of you that are replying are doing so based on personal usage and experience. Also many aren't differentiating between OS9 and Classic.
Apple invested a ton of resources into Classic. I don't see any reason as to why they would "kill" classic now. It would be one thing if developers weren't migrating to OSX, but there is substantial development for OSX.
Continuing to include Classic doesn't really cost anything, and continuing to upgrade OS9 (solely to recognize new Macs) doesn't cost much at all.
Continuing to offer OS9 and Classic allows users to upgrade hardware without being forced to upgrade software at the same time. This gives users an additional incentive to buy another Mac.
I don't see Apple dumping OS9 or Classic until after the potential loss of hardware upgraders is less than the cost of including OS9 or Classic.
Considering the low cost of including OS9 and Classic, I don't see them dumping either for a very long time.
Most of you that are replying are doing so based on personal usage and experience. Also many aren't differentiating between OS9 and Classic.
Apple invested a ton of resources into Classic. I don't see any reason as to why they would "kill" classic now. It would be one thing if developers weren't migrating to OSX, but there is substantial development for OSX.
Continuing to include Classic doesn't really cost anything, and continuing to upgrade OS9 (solely to recognize new Macs) doesn't cost much at all.
Continuing to offer OS9 and Classic allows users to upgrade hardware without being forced to upgrade software at the same time. This gives users an additional incentive to buy another Mac.
I don't see Apple dumping OS9 or Classic until after the potential loss of hardware upgraders is less than the cost of including OS9 or Classic.
Considering the low cost of including OS9 and Classic, I don't see them dumping either for a very long time.
The cost to Apple of including OS 9 is one of support. Whilst I agree that there will be nothing to stop someone booting into OS 9 if they insist, the fact is that Apple will soon no longer support it. No more updates, not more patches, no more application development (as evidenced already by iPhoto).
Microsoft finally stopped supporting Windows 95 at the end of last year. At the end of this year, they're no longer supporting NT 4.0 either. I suspect we will also see support for OS 9 as a stand alone operating system also end by the end of this year.
Interesting issue raised by this... what will Apple do about Firmware updates? They're still currently being done using OS 9 because OS X, as a multi-tasking operating system is not suitable for the task. Hmmm - a few things to solve before they scrap 9 altogether I guess...
Microsoft finally stopped supporting Windows 95 at the end of last year. At the end of this year, they're no longer supporting NT 4.0 either. I suspect we will also see support for OS 9 as a stand alone operating system also end by the end of this year.
Interesting issue raised by this... what will Apple do about Firmware updates? They're still currently being done using OS 9 because OS X, as a multi-tasking operating system is not suitable for the task. Hmmm - a few things to solve before they scrap 9 altogether I guess...
ok all you blind people have made me do it. im whippin out the list. no bugs in osx. what a joke. osx has more bugs than any public beta ive ever used. so here is my short list of bugs compiled wit the help of YOU guys:
Bug Fixes:
Window Bugs:
windows should not open behind the dock, just as windows do not open behind the menubar.
all windows should remember their size and icon arrangement. this seems simple. perhaps a "save window position" like in omniweb could be used to save a certain window position and size.
the green button should function properly. currently when the "keep arranged by.." option is chosen the right side of the window crops the window too close forcing the icons along the edge to move to th next row. when the "snap to grid" option is chosen there is too much room at the top of a window. when none of these is checked then things crop properly to the right and bottom but it does not crop the left or top of a window.
when navigating windows with the "always open folders in a new window" preference turned off the new window should open in its saved state, not in the state of the window that was previously open. in other words it should function much like opening a folding while holding down the option key, but retain the history in the back button.
from cleo- when the "scroll to here" option is checked all applications should exhibit this behavior cocoa AND carbon applications.
windows with a large number of files/apps should open in a reasonable amount of time.
scrolling in windows needs to be accelerated
scrolling in pdf documents needs to accelerated
all windows should by default be set to global (this is what global means). one can then change all of one's windows by adjusting the global options. if one wants things different in a particular window then one uses the "this window only" option.
classic windows should be just as aware of the dock and menubar as aqua windows.
Other:
When emptying the trash using contexual menus and having the warn before emptying option checked a warning should be displayed.
fix iDisk slow down in OSX.
From OldMac - Stickies Notes should be multiple monitor aware. They should not jump back to the main monitor on restart.
Bug Fixes:
Window Bugs:
windows should not open behind the dock, just as windows do not open behind the menubar.
all windows should remember their size and icon arrangement. this seems simple. perhaps a "save window position" like in omniweb could be used to save a certain window position and size.
the green button should function properly. currently when the "keep arranged by.." option is chosen the right side of the window crops the window too close forcing the icons along the edge to move to th next row. when the "snap to grid" option is chosen there is too much room at the top of a window. when none of these is checked then things crop properly to the right and bottom but it does not crop the left or top of a window.
when navigating windows with the "always open folders in a new window" preference turned off the new window should open in its saved state, not in the state of the window that was previously open. in other words it should function much like opening a folding while holding down the option key, but retain the history in the back button.
from cleo- when the "scroll to here" option is checked all applications should exhibit this behavior cocoa AND carbon applications.
windows with a large number of files/apps should open in a reasonable amount of time.
scrolling in windows needs to be accelerated
scrolling in pdf documents needs to accelerated
all windows should by default be set to global (this is what global means). one can then change all of one's windows by adjusting the global options. if one wants things different in a particular window then one uses the "this window only" option.
classic windows should be just as aware of the dock and menubar as aqua windows.
Other:
When emptying the trash using contexual menus and having the warn before emptying option checked a warning should be displayed.
fix iDisk slow down in OSX.
From OldMac - Stickies Notes should be multiple monitor aware. They should not jump back to the main monitor on restart.
besides all the speed issues. the one that bothers me the most is the green button. i hate how that thing doesnt work. i cant believe we have had so many updates to osx and apple still cant make a functioning resize button.
Re: 9 is still essential
If this were true, you would realize that via several GUI apps, and the command line, you can move or delete any file on any OSX partition, sometimes with disasterous effects.
What OSX has done is save Apple from supporting Grandma when she deletes her core services folder, and phones for help. Grandma can't figure out how to delete it in the first place.
If you know enough about what you're doing to enable your root user, and use root with caution, you can do any damn thing you want, and ceratinly without booting into 9.
I've had my new Quicksilver for 6 weeks now, and havn't even seen the 9 installation's desktop.
If this were true, you would realize that via several GUI apps, and the command line, you can move or delete any file on any OSX partition, sometimes with disasterous effects.
What OSX has done is save Apple from supporting Grandma when she deletes her core services folder, and phones for help. Grandma can't figure out how to delete it in the first place.
If you know enough about what you're doing to enable your root user, and use root with caution, you can do any damn thing you want, and ceratinly without booting into 9.
I've had my new Quicksilver for 6 weeks now, and havn't even seen the 9 installation's desktop.
Well, active development is EXPENSIVE, as is support. So there is an extra effort on Apple's part to maintain and upgrade 9/Classic.
Truly no effort things (like HFS) mean development is frozen, no new dollars are being spent, and support is negligible.
Keeping Classic around for more than two years is pouring money down a hole. No new commercial software will be developed for Classic by then, and within that time frame, all current software will be Carbonized, with much being pure Cocoa.
Classic will be like NuBUS in 3 years time. You remember what it is, but you don't use it cause all the bits are way too old.
Re: 9 is still essential
If this were true, you would realize that via several GUI apps, and the command line, you can move or delete any file on any OSX partition, sometimes with disasterous effects.
What OSX has done is save Apple from supporting Grandma when she deletes her core services folder, and phones for help. Grandma can't figure out how to delete it in the first place.
If you know enough about what you're doing to enable your root user, and use root with caution, you can do any damn thing you want, and ceratinly without booting into 9.
I've had my new Quicksilver for 6 weeks now, and havn't even seen the 9 installation's desktop.
If this were true, you would realize that via several GUI apps, and the command line, you can move or delete any file on any OSX partition, sometimes with disasterous effects.
What OSX has done is save Apple from supporting Grandma when she deletes her core services folder, and phones for help. Grandma can't figure out how to delete it in the first place.
If you know enough about what you're doing to enable your root user, and use root with caution, you can do any damn thing you want, and ceratinly without booting into 9.
I've had my new Quicksilver for 6 weeks now, and havn't even seen the 9 installation's desktop.