will Nokia knock Apple out? With the help of Intel?

[JoshBoy]

US semiconductor giant Intel and Finnish mobile phone maker Nokia have announced that they have entered into a "strategic relationship" to develop futuristic mobile computing devices.

Intel, the world's biggest computer-chip maker, and Nokia, the largest mobile phone manufacturer, said their partnership would seek to "define a new mobile platform beyond today's smartphones, notebooks and netbooks."

The alliance between the leaders in their respective fields would enable "the development of a variety of innovative hardware, software and mobile Internet services," they said in a statement.

Intel dominates the chip market for computers but has had little success in its attempts to break into the mobile phone arena.

The Santa Clara, California-based Intel and Helsinki-based Nokia did not unveil plans for any specific products but said they would collaborate in developing operating systems for the future mobile computing devices using open-source Linux software.

"With the convergence of the internet and mobility as the team's only barrier, I can only imagine the innovation that will come out of our unique relationship with Nokia," said Anand Chandrasekher, a senior vice president at Intel. "The possibilities are endless."

"Today's announcement represents a significant commitment to work together on the future of mobile computing, and we plan to turn our joint research into action," said Kai Oistamo, an executive vice president at Nokia.

"We will explore new ideas in designs, materials and displays that will go far beyond devices and services on the market today," Oistamo said.

Intel's tie-up with Nokia comes slightly more than two weeks after the semiconductor maker announced that it has agreed to buy software company Wind River Systems for $US884 million in a bid get its chips into more devices.

Intel said that its takeover of Wind River is part of its strategy to grow beyond its traditional personal computer and server markets and into mobile handheld devices and other systems

 

[MacDawg]

Competition is a good thing and leads to greater innovation

Woof, Woof - Dawg

 

[liptonlover]

Ok before I laugh at this, I'd like to agree with MacDawg. Competition is good and despite how much I love Apple, I want competition for their own good and for my good as a consumer.

Now.... hahahahahaha!!!

No offense, but it sounds like they want to do exactly what Apple already did just two years ago. They're too late. There hasn't been enough new technology whether in hardware or software that they can make a sudden leap that will come anywhere close to the iPhone, not to mention that while they're revolutionizing a market that just had a revolution, Apple will be hard at work improving the iPhone even more, or if they see fit going in a completely different direction themselves. So, to answer the thread title, no way.

Nate

 

[DiamondMac]

Love it

I hope every company starts introducing ground-breaking phones that push Apple

We end up winning in the end, imo

 

[windywoo]

Nokia already piss on Apple with their marketshare. Apple have something like 1% and Nokia are up there around the 50%.

If we look at Smartphones alone ofc the iPhone is a big name, but lets not forget that Smartphones are only a niche market.

 

[Goona]

Nokia already piss on Apple with their marketshare. Apple have something like 1% and Nokia are up there around the 50%.

If we look at Smartphones alone ofc the iPhone is a big name, but lets not forget that Smartphones are only a niche market.

Who gives a damn, with all that marketshare Apple eats Nokia for lunch in profits.

 

[JNB]

The problem with these announcements (and the inevitable "iPhone Killer" commentary) is that they are already behind the curve. Anyone that has any real understanding of market competitiveness sees this in about a microsecond.

The critical failure for most of these is they start with the iPhone as the baseline. Why this is a failure is twofold: they're tacitly acknowledging the iPhone as the mindshare leader, and in conceptualization and development they're at least a year--likely more--in exactly what these things will be doing over the next few years, because again, they start with the iPhone as the model.

This is where Apple's notorious secretiveness pays off: nobody has a clue what's coming out of Cupertino next month, much less next year and beyond. When did the iPhone begin development? Several years ago, even before some of the technologies it uses were mature enough to implement at the time.

"Knock Apple out?" Hardly. The marketshare argument is a strawman, and not to belabor the point, but Apple does not care about marketshare. Period. The iPhone is still essentially a single model offered at a time, color & capacity notwithstanding, and in just under two years, they have become the leader in what a "smartphone" must be. Nokia (and Moto, Samsung, et al) can have the low-margin business all they want trying to follow that act, because Apple's not after that. If you look at the P&L for each company, I think you'll find the Board's perfectly happy with the way things are, and they're only gonna get better.

 

[clevin]

Who gives a damn, with all that marketshare Apple eats Nokia for lunch in profits.

you are not saying apple's profit is all from smartphone, are you? Last time I checked, Nokia hasn't made PMP or computer yet.

 

[windywoo]

If marketshare is a strawman argument then why are there so many threads about how fast the 3GS sells? And why do all the Apple arse kissers like to quote how badly other smartphones sell in comparison? Apple does care about marketshare, because it needs a large enough chunk of the market for it to make money, huge margins or not. Do you think they would welcome a drop in sales?

 

[JNB]

Considering Apple has made one press release, and everything else you refer to is something by forum members, bloggers, and other media re-reporting the single announcement, I don't see how that's all that extraordinary, nor an indication of the importance Apple places on the sales of a newly-released device compared to every other new device they release.

You're confusing, deliberately or otherwise, the relationship between market share (sales) and press releases (marketing). There is none. They have separate functions and business dictates.

 

[Goona]

you are not saying apple's profit is all from smartphone, are you? Last time I checked, Nokia hasn't made PMP or computer yet.

Nokia made around 100 million euros profit selling around 95 million phones, last time I checked profits from iphone alone for Apple last quarter is more than that and they sold like 1/30 the amount of phones Nokia sold in the quarter. Apple made 1.21 billion dollars in profit last quarter, and they sold 3.79 million iphones. I can bet you the profits from the 3.79 million iphones is more than Nokia took in for profits.

 

[Stella]

Likewise, Nokia have been doing for years what Apple have only just done or not achieved.. i.e,.
* copy and paste,
* effective GPS navigation on cell phone.
* background applications


Additionally, Nokia don't do:
* exclusive carrier crap on the vast majority of their smartphones...
* more than one model of smartphone: one size doesn't fit all

. so Nokia will most probably always have a higher market share than Apple, simply due to these whilst Apple choose to go down their current path.

No offense, but it sounds like they want to do exactly what Apple already did just two years ago. They're too late. There hasn't been enough new technology whether in hardware or software that they can make a sudden leap that will come anywhere close to the iPhone, not to mention that while they're revolutionizing a market that just had a revolution, Apple will be hard at work improving the iPhone even more, or if they see fit going in a completely different direction themselves. So, to answer the thread title, no way.

Nate

 

[Goona]

Likewise, Nokia have been doing for years what Apple have only just done or not achieved.. i.e,.
* copy and paste,
* effective GPS navigation on cell phone.
* background applications


Additionally, Nokia don't do:
* exclusive carrier crap on the vast majority of their smartphones...
* more than one model of smartphone: one size doesn't fit all

. so Nokia will most probably always have a higher market share than Apple, simply due to these whilst Apple choose to go down their current path.

Where was their app store, despite being such a big player they still couldn't muster up an app store after all these years. Had to come and take a young entrant in Apple to show them how it's done. Meanwhile how is the Ovi store going?

 

[Consultant]

Nokia Market Drop

Nokia ships 19% fewer phones, loses share in Q1
http://www.electronista.com/articles/09/04/16/nokia.q1.2009.results/

 

[Stella]

Where was their app store, despite being such a big player they still couldn't muster up an app store after all these years. Had to come and take a young entrant in Apple to show them how it's done. Meanwhile how is the Ovi store going?

Nokia have had a download site of their own for years, installed on most nokia smartphones. Nokia just didn't use it effectively.

You could apply your argument for Nokia positives against Apple too - why did it take so long for basic functionality, i.e,. cut and paste, or, why doesn't iphone support multi-tasking? Why is the iPhone so artificially crippled? Why can't iPhone developers write whatever applications they like instead of having regulations imposed on them, that seem to change daily on Apple's whim? Why did the Commodore emulator get rejected - pretty stupid reason, really, lets face it! Let the user decide what to install on their phone.

Reality is, unless Apple frees the iPhones of exclusivity, the iPhone will not get a significant market share - ie., 30 to 40% of smartphone market. WorldWide, that is.

 

[Goona]

Nokia have had a download site of their own for years, installed on most nokia smartphones. Nokia just didn't use it effectively.

You could apply your argument for Nokia positives against Apple too - why did it take so long for basic functionality, i.e,. cut and paste, or, why doesn't iphone support multi-tasking? Why is the iPhone so artificially crippled? Why can't iPhone developers write whatever applications they like instead of having regulations imposed on them, that seem to change daily on Apple's whim? Why did the Commodore emulator get rejected - pretty stupid reason, really, lets face it! Let the user decide what to install on their phone.

Reality is, unless Apple frees the iPhones of exclusivity, the iPhone will not get a significant market share - ie., 30 to 40% of smartphone market. WorldWide, that is.

If their download site was so perfect, why would they launch the Ovi Store. This is a company that has been in the game so long but they just launched their first touchscreen devices. Apple can't implement every feature in the book, they include features as they move along and they seem to be doing a good job. Apple just came in the game 2 years ago and yet they have one of the most sought after phones. Nokia on the other hand has been making phones for years but just thought of the idea of bringing a touchscreen phone. Did the first Nokia phones have copy and paste.

Even with all those so called problems you listed about the app store, you have developers lining up to develop for the iphone. Apple never promised that every app would be accepted, there were bound to be some rejections. Around something like 96% of apps are accepted which is good enough. Nokia can keep on selling their 400 million phones a year mostly made up cheap dumphones. Apple will keep on selling less phones while making more profits on them. People are so obsessed with marketshare, they think it's the end of the world. Companies are here to make profits, if I can make more profits selling less phones than you, why the heck do I care how many phones you sell. It's not like Apple is losing developers to Nokia because of Nokia's selling more phones or mindshare.

 

[Stella]

RE: Download App

Like I said
"Nokia have had a download site of their own for years, installed on most nokia smartphones. Nokia just didn't use it effectively.".

Download app was well known to be crap. So what, Nokia tried again with OVI Store - OVI is an integration of several services and products.


Apple is interested in market share too... at the start of every conference SJ is up there stating the marketshare of iTunes, iPod, iPhones etc etc. It only suites Apple to acknowledge market share when it is to the benefit of them.

No market share means no support for your product, like we saw with Apple computers.. since Apple have had increasing market share in their computers, so vendors have started to offer more support for Apple's products, once again. When Apple's market share for their PCs was decreasing, so 3rd party support dropped off.

No 3rd party support for the likes of computers, operating systems and smartphones is a real turn off for consumers.

Additionally, the more marketshare, the more sales - so better economy of sales for production, which means lower costs for production costs and potential lower consumer price tag - which results in a competitive advantage over your competition.

The more popular your product, the more leverage a company can apply to resellers, service providers etc. You think that Apple could dictate terms to the record companies if iTunes had 5% marketshare? Or, iPhone having exclusivity / profit sharing ( with 1st generation ) with service providers if the iPhone had tanked or just performed averagely?

Yes, marketshare is very important to Apple.

Nokia is in the cell phone business, they offer a range of phones to suite a wide market, so it is in their interest to cell lots of cheap feature phones, and as many high end phones as possible. Apple are in one market: the smartphone market. As it stands, Nokia sells more smartphones in a quarter than Apple do in a year.

If their download site was so perfect, why would they launch the Ovi Store. This is a company that has been in the game so long but they just launched their first touchscreen devices. Apple can't implement every feature in the book, they include features as they move along and they seem to be doing a good job. Apple just came in the game 2 years ago and yet they have one of the most sought after phones. Nokia on the other hand has been making phones for years but just thought of the idea of bringing a touchscreen phone. Did the first Nokia phones have copy and paste.

Even with all those so called problems you listed about the app store, you have developers lining up to develop for the iphone. Apple never promised that every app would be accepted, there were bound to be some rejections. Around something like 96% of apps are accepted which is good enough. Nokia can keep on selling their 400 million phones a year mostly made up cheap dumphones. Apple will keep on selling less phones while making more profits on them. People are so obsessed with marketshare, they think it's the end of the world. Companies are here to make profits, if I can make more profits selling less phones than you, why the heck do I care how many phones you sell. It's not like Apple is losing developers to Nokia because of Nokia's selling more phones or mindshare.

 

[JoshBoy]

I think people have to remember that there is no limit to what is possible, Nokia may come out with a device that has no screen, that projects 3D images or bio technology etc. Nokia is the largest producer of mobile phones in the world, i would not doubt that they will be placing a lot of focus to deliver something that has not been seen before. In relation to their current phones the N97 looks pretty sweet, anyone used it yet?
Don't take this as I would go back to them either, I now have 2 iphone 3g phones going on ebay to be replaced with 2 3gs iphones but it is pretty exciting to consider what might just come out (then apple will bring out the ibrain, integrated into your nervous system powered by muscle movement LOL)