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ouat789

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Original poster
Feb 9, 2024
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Rumors suggest that...
"iOS 18 will bring the company's new LLM to millions of existing devices by using cloud-based AI, while new on-device AI features will likely remain exclusive to the iPhone 16." (MacRumors article)

If new on-device AI features require an upgraded A-series chip (A18), this sounds to me like they could also require an upgraded M-series chip (M4).

Do you think that after we finally get a new design and displays, the new iPad Pros will miss out on such a crucial upgrade?
 

chabig

macrumors G4
Sep 6, 2002
11,460
9,326
Nobody knows. But suppose the on-device AI does require the A18 chip, iPads don't have A18s and there is no M4 yet, so come to your own conclusion. I say yes, the new (Spring '24) iPads won't have what it takes to support an on-device LLM.
 
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erikkfi

macrumors 68000
May 19, 2017
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It seems like this would be a weird limitation for a brand-new top-level device that’s likely to be on sale for a year if not longer. I doubt they’ll draw the line at M4 but may indeed require A18 in an iPhone.
 
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JPack

macrumors G5
Mar 27, 2017
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In general, Apple lags behind the AI stuff. This will be Apple's first major attempt. While M2 to M3 only improved neural engine slightly, I doubt iPad OS 18 will be too hardware dependent
 

EtherealMAC

macrumors member
Jan 26, 2011
59
20
I think the 8GB of ram would be more limiting than the actual M3, or M2 even in the case of the new iPad Airs. The reason being that generative AI and LLMs and such are much more dependent on neural engines and GPU cores, not CPU cores. If you compare an A17 with an M2, technically speaking and in theory, the M2 is vastly superior on those two departments.

In fact, if u look how the latest AAA iOS/iPadOS games ( namely, RE and Death Stranding) run ion a A17 vs on a M1 iPad, the M1 is still superior. What does a gaming comparison have to do with in-device AI you ask? Well because AI, just like gamibg, depends a lot on GPU cores, so if A18 will be able run AI tasks that the A17 can't , it is reasonable to assume that the M1 might be able to run those too at a similar performance, meaning M2 and M3 will be better at it than the A18.

Which leaves the question of RAM . For you to run smoothly "your own GPT" in say, a modern Mac, an M2 and M3 are pretty ok actually, but the more ram you get the better. We are talking of about 24 GB)m minimum , (better 32) . I doubt they'll put more than 8GB on the base versions of the 2024 iPad and iPhones. Which leads me to believe that most AI features on them are not gonna be ran by the SoC in itself; it would be instead get to offloaded to Apple Servers.

We'll see.
 

Macalway

macrumors 601
Aug 7, 2013
4,191
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You just need to plan to trade-in or sell you stuff if you need to, like with new features that you want.

Apple has great resell value. Almost like future proofing. Anyway, AI is wait and see as far as I'm concerned.
 
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Rafterman

Contributor
Apr 23, 2010
7,267
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Honestly I could care less about AI. Its actually not true AI. Companies want you to think it is, but its not, AI is still just computers and software that are wrong a lot of the time. AI might handle repetitive tasks, write you some code, and write a simple proposal or term paper. But anything that requires true thinking - its just better software than we are used to right now.
 

Macalway

macrumors 601
Aug 7, 2013
4,191
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Well I for one am very grateful for AI. Just the idea of It is creating huge wealth in markets, just to take it away with a bubble.
 
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max2

macrumors 603
May 31, 2015
6,421
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Honestly I could care less about AI. Its actually not true AI. Companies want you to think it is, but its not, AI is still just computers and software that are wrong a lot of the time. AI might handle repetitive tasks, write you some code, and write a simple proposal or term paper. But anything that requires true thinking - its just better software than we are used to right now.

Yep i agree.
 
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Royksöpp

macrumors 68020
Nov 4, 2013
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Historically speaking, iPads are never introduced with new features built into the OS. It always comes later like iOS 11 and iPadOS 16. Anything introduced at WWDC is pretty much guaranteed to run on the M3. It’s everything before that is at risk of being left behind. There has to be some kind of software differentiator between the Air and Pro.
 

EugW

macrumors G5
Jun 18, 2017
14,976
12,939
I also don't give a chit at all about on-device AI.

BTW, I tend to be a guy who waits a long time before upgrades, and because of that I will wait for key feature upgrades.

eg.
iPad Air 2 - 2 GB RAM
2017 Macs - Hardware 10-bit h.265 HEVC
2024 iPad Pro - OLED

AI isn't even on my radar.
 
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jjDevt

macrumors member
Jun 7, 2020
35
39
think this question has gotten more relevance now with the rumors about the Mac line-up starting to being updated this fall with M4 chips. I am certainly thinking about it as the iPad will be the last product to be updated to the M4 next year, even though I was pretty sure to buy the new Pro as soon as it comes out.
 

ThatsMeRight

macrumors 68020
Sep 12, 2009
2,377
412
They will announce the new iPadOS in June.

My theory? They want the new iPads out before June, because the new spring iPads will be the only ones supporting the AI functionalities.

So no worries there!

Same for iPhone: at least iPhone 15 will be supported. They’re not going to announce a new AI-featured iOS for iPhones that aren’t out yet.

Apple’s M- and A-chips have had dedicated machine learning units for years now. Current-gen devices will be ready.
 

DaPhox

macrumors 6502
Oct 23, 2019
292
442
Rumors suggest that...


If new on-device AI features require an upgraded A-series chip (A18), this sounds to me like they could also require an upgraded M-series chip (M4).

Do you think that after we finally get a new design and displays, the new iPad Pros will miss out on such a crucial upgrade?
I hope so...
 

jjDevt

macrumors member
Jun 7, 2020
35
39
They will announce the new iPadOS in June.

My theory? They want the new iPads out before June, because the new spring iPads will be the only ones supporting the AI functionalities.

So no worries there!

Same for iPhone: at least iPhone 15 will be supported. They’re not going to announce a new AI-featured iOS for iPhones that aren’t out yet.

Apple’s M- and A-chips have had dedicated machine learning units for years now. Current-gen devices will be ready.
I would actually say the opposite. From the rumors it seems the M3 is vastly inferior to the M4 when it comes to the AI functionality. Apple will try to get the iPads out before WWDC because otherwise nobody would be buying them this late in the chip cycle (M4 coming out five months later for the Mac). I expect the iPad Pro to be updated again in March next year with the M4.
 

ThatsMeRight

macrumors 68020
Sep 12, 2009
2,377
412
I would actually say the opposite. From the rumors it seems the M3 is vastly inferior to the M4 when it comes to the AI functionality. Apple will try to get the iPads out before WWDC because otherwise nobody would be buying them this late in the chip cycle (M4 coming out five months later for the Mac). I expect the iPad Pro to be updated again in March next year with the M4 of they do what you’re saying, than there would be no AI iPadOS features.
But if they do what you’re saying, than there would be no AI iPadOS features this year. Unlikely, looking at the suggestions Apple execs have made.

Additionally, there are no rumours that indicate that the M4 is “vastly inferior” to M3.

The only rumour is the one of today, which says, and I quote, “the M4 chip will be focused on improving performance for artificial intelligence capabilities”.
 

MegaBlue

macrumors 6502
Sep 19, 2022
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Tennessee, United States
There might be a feature or two that only an A18 or M4 device can run, but much like the AI- and ML-based features that get added every year, the large majority of them work just fine on the most recent device, and often the most recent device minus 1, even minus 2.

The vast majority (if not all) the AI features coming to iOS/iPadOS will be available on all the current newest devices. The neural engine in the A17 Pro and M3, and even the A16, are more than equipped for a lot of these tasks. They still beat out some of these chipsets that are "designed" for AI at local AI/ML tasks.
 

Torty

macrumors 65816
Oct 16, 2013
1,239
945
Additionally, there are no rumours that indicate that the M4 is “vastly inferior” to M3.
The A17 is already almost 2x faster M3 regarding neuronal engine. So according rumors there will be a big step A18 vs A17 we can assume that M4 will be vastly better than M3, even if it gets the NE cores from the A17.
 

Fraserpatty

macrumors 6502
Mar 5, 2015
452
390
Rumors suggest that...


If new on-device AI features require an upgraded A-series chip (A18), this sounds to me like they could also require an upgraded M-series chip (M4).

Do you think that after we finally get a new design and displays, the new iPad Pros will miss out on such a crucial upgrade?
The Vision Pro is Apple’s most recent darling. And it’s most expensive. I’m hoping that since it contains the M2 chip Apple won’t desert that chip for an obligatory M4 when it comes to the AI features.
 

Jackbequickly

macrumors 68040
Aug 6, 2022
3,188
3,278
The M4 is coming in fall. What it will do is still up in the air. I still think that meaningful AI is a few years down the road. If it is tied to Google, I don’t want anything to do with it. I think it will be late 2025 or 2026 before we get an M4 in an iPad Pro.

I would just be happy if they gave Siri some brains. It is unable to do the most simple things.
 
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