Windows phone - state of the platform

[maflynn]

I've been thinking about this lately.
What is the current state of the platform?

• Microsoft appears to be intent on providing services and software on iOS and Android, thus reducing advantages of the the windows phone.
• They also have been focusing on rolling out low end phones with some success, but at the risk of cheapening the brand.
• Some major developers have dropped them or refuse to produce their apps for the platform.
• Nadella seems less inclined to grow the phone
• Rumors of the platform may run Android and/or be dual boot

While marketshare in Europe appears to be better, the picture is not rosy.

I picked up a used Lumia on swappa, partly for my kids and partly to play with windows 10. I like the phones, the UI and what the OS brings.

I think if the rumors are true about the running Android or worse dual booting, that will only hasten the death spiral. Why should developers create windows programs when it can run Android apps?

Odd coincidence, Microsoft used this argument to marginalize OS/2 over windows back in the day and now they're potentially falling into the same trap.

 

[sracer]

It's a radical thought, but I think Microsoft's is trying to sunset Windows Phone OS. There may be some contractual obligations that require them to do certain things (and that might explain their seemingly odd treatment of WP OS), but they don't appear to be "all in".

It's a shame. They've done some terrific things with Windows Phone 8 and beyond... excellent performance on extremely low-end hardware. Battery life on my Lumia 520 far exceeds every other smartphone I own.

 

[spinedoc77]

I think them unifying development for windows and windows phone together will help out a lot. With the surface 3 and surface PRO lines selling lots developers will come back, and benefit from only having to develop apps once.

I hear very sparse rumors here and there about a surface phone, with Microsoft hardware pedigree apparent in the surface line I think a surface phone would be incredible, but PLEASE don't make it look like a Nokia. Put a digitizer and stylus in it and I'd switch back to MS in a second. Spartan web browser, unified development, the very nice tile based system, etc really make me look forward to windows phone, BUT they haven't made me want to switch yet.

 

[MRU]

To me the fundamental problem as ever with windows phone is a lack of apps especially Google service apps and local content such as banks etc.

Despite windows 10 I don't envision that situation changing sadly.

 

[maflynn]

To me the fundamental problem as ever with windows phone is a lack of apps especially Google service apps and local content such as banks etc.

Despite windows 10 I don't envision that situation changing sadly.

Apps is a major issue, but I think the carriers are doing just as much damage. Its been my experience that salesmen/saleswoman steer people aware from the windows phone. I've been in VZW and ATT stores and they push the android phones over the windows phone. ITs hard to grow the market share when the people charged with actual selling push people away.

 

[holydude]

Apps is a major issue, but I think the carriers are doing just as much damage. Its been my experience that salesmen/saleswoman steer people aware from the windows phone. I've been in VZW and ATT stores and they push the android phones over the windows phone. ITs hard to grow the market share when the people charged with actual selling push people away.

I like windows phone OS. It's amazing.

But i doubt Microsoft can make it successful. It simply can't provide the developers what they want 1) marketshare 2) exciting new platform / programming language / ecosystem 3) profitability


It's too much locked to the Microsoft world.

 

[Savor]

For me, it is all about the apps and services which clearly Google surpasses Microsoft in.

I actually like Windows Phone myself. The Nokia Lumia 635 has had less issues with me as of late and might have the best battery life I ever experienced on a smartphone. Phone Arena's 9 hrs and 35 min might be closer to the truth. Best secondary and budget phone at the $50 price range.

But what I am starting to like more is Windows 8.1 for desktops/tablets. Swipe gestures are really cool especially to go back, close, or multi-window. I know alot of people hated Windows 8 but like my Stepfather said, he eventually started liking it once he got used to it. Alot of people have stuck to 7 but 8.1 is pretty great after awhile. It has its quirks like trying to be two OSes in one and lacks consistency but seems way more useful than ChromeOS. Can't wait when Windows 10 arrives. I am a fan more of Windows for desktops and tablets over smartphones though. I will stick to Android for mobile.

 

[roadbloc]

Windows Phone is one of my favourite mobile OSs. I imagine this may be the case for many people as Windows 10 rolls out with its cross-platform apps. It'll be invaluable to both user and developer alike if it works as advertised.

 

[Savor]

With Windows 8.1 for tablets, apps like Netflix works much better than for smartphones. I also like how the OS can work well switching from portrait to landscape. This is why Windows 8.1 works better for me on tablets if used mainly for media consumption where not many apps are needed like on phones. So far, Windows Phone just isn't there and may never will be because app development is lagging compared to the other two. But Windows for desktops/tablets is fine because I don't tend to download so many specific apps/programs for them.

 

[maflynn]

Here's an interesting article and it certainly paints a bleak picture
http://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-loses-12-cents-on-every-phone-sold

The salient portion imo is this

A filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission highlights just how bad things have become. Microsoft acquired Nokia back in 2013 for around $7.2 billion (a figure which has since risen to over $9 billion, according to the filing) and the division, named "Phone Hardware", brought in $1.4 billion in Q3 2015 with the cost of revenue exceeding that figure by $4 million. This means that Microsoft lost around 12 cents per phone, even before R&D costs, among other expenses, are applied, despite exceptional unit sales.

While 12 cents doesn't seem like much, 10 million phones equates to losing 1.2 million dollars instead of actually making a profit. There are other factors to be considered as the article states, i.e., R&D and what not, so the per phone lose could be steeper.

 

[ucfgrad93]

To me the fundamental problem as ever with windows phone is a lack of apps especially Google service apps and local content such as banks etc.

Despite windows 10 I don't envision that situation changing sadly.

I think this is spot on.

 

[AppleRobert]

No development for platform with little interest or little interest for a platform with no development?

Chicken/egg.

 

[ryankul]

I agree on the App ecosystem. I've never used a platform before that was loosing apps instead of gaining them. I did a restore on my 635 and went to re-download my apps and some were no longer available.. So I do some digging and find the devolopers pulled the apps to focus on other platforms. One was my banking app recently (Chase) + (Bank of America) and the other a weather app I really enjoyed. Not to mention Snap Chat and them going after any companies that try to make an alternative app. Just kinda nuts. They definitely need better app support to grow.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

I think it's the best OS, and with the convergence of Windows Phone and Windows, you'll see a lot more cross-development, which will be healthy for Windows as a whole - both mobile and desktop.

Having said that, the lack of apps is a killer. I'm not a very big "app" person. I have an android tablet and my girlfriends' iPhone that i can steal if I want. I hardly ever use apps, and I wish the app situation was better.

 

[maflynn]

you'll see a lot more cross-development, which will be healthy for Windows as a whole

I hope because right now, I only see developers fleeing the platform. I agree, the OS is great and so much untapped potential. Yet, as a platform, its becoming less and less of a viable alternative.

 

[spinedoc77]

Here's an interesting article and it certainly paints a bleak picture
http://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-loses-12-cents-on-every-phone-sold

The salient portion imo is this


While 12 cents doesn't seem like much, 10 million phones equates to losing 1.2 million dollars instead of actually making a profit. There are other factors to be considered as the article states, i.e., R&D and what not, so the per phone lose could be steeper.

I never understood why the hell they bought Nokia. If it was brand recognition you don't get much more brand recognition than Microsoft. If a Microsoft surface phone was released I think it would be great, that is even more true today because the surface line is starting to take off so well. Microsoft could even think out side of the box and provide a digitizer and stylus on it (although they did this 20 years ago). Heck throw on a kickstand onto a phablet style surface phone and I'm sold.

I can only assume they wanted Nokia's patents, otherwise I don't know why they wasted the money.

 

[spinedoc77]

I hope because right now, I only see developers fleeing the platform. I agree, the OS is great and so much untapped potential. Yet, as a platform, its becoming less and less of a viable alternative.

Lots of devs will want to write for windows desktop as the vast majority of the world runs on that. Of course that means Microsoft has to convince the vast majority of the world to upgrade from Windows XP, they should have made the free Win10 upgrade apply to XP as well IMO then they could market all their subscription services, although a lot of that is cloud based as well and separate from the OS.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

I can only assume they wanted Nokia's patents, otherwise I don't know why they wasted the money.

The board didn't know why either, which is why Ballmer is no longer CEO

 

[Vegastouch]

Id still like to get a windows phone and anlother part of the reason they dont sell more is because their best phones like the 930 have been exclusive to Verizon and the 830 isnt making the rounds either. T-Mobile still doesnt have it.

But i agree about the Apps. By far the biggest reason they arent doing as well. Cant believe they dont have the apps yet to compete more and even some they have that are basic apps like eBay and Gmail arent as good as they should be. The Gmail app sucks and i just go to the URL instead.

 

[AppleRobert]

I will check out the 640, I rather have the bigger one but I doubt I would go for that one. I think the latter would probably be around $200.

 

[dsnort]

I think Windows Phone just got a boost

 

[spinedoc77]

Wow I can't believe how fast the state of WP changed since this morning. iOS/android working on MS phones/tablets and the incredible continuum turning your freaking phone into a full PC. Man it's going to be an exciting year with this kind of innovation. Innovation we haven't seen in years.

 

[maflynn]

Microsoft certainly pulled one out of the hat so to speak. I think this definitely rejuvenates the platform. I hope this translates into tangible apps and better phones.

 

[jamezr]

Honestly I don't know if this is going to help. It won't change the basic UI changes that need to happen. If you port more apps to WP will they function the same as on IOS/Android? If they do not then it will lead to even more dissatisfied customers leaving the WP platform. If you have a favorite app like Swiftkey for example on Android. Now try it on IOS. Its not the same user experience. This will happen a lot when apps get ported over to WP.

 

[maflynn]

Honestly I don't know if this is going to help. It won't change the basic UI changes that need to happen

Have you used windows 10 on a phone? They've been updating and making changes to the UI. I like windows phones, and wp8 is a solid mobile OS, though the UI decisions they've made haven't been that well received. Based on that feedback, they've made quite a bit of alterations to the UI.

I had to revert back to win8 because the latest build was too unstable to be used unfortunately.