MP 1,1-5,1 Would you buy a turnkey, non-destructive Pixlas Mod? (poll)

[mattspace]

Hi Folks,

Just wondering what percentage of peeps here have / have not done a Pixlas mod on their machines, and if anyone would be interested in a non-destructive solution.

I'm in early discussions with a custom fab shop to design and build a passthrough plug that would sit between the power cable and the motherboard, and provide one or two 8 pin molex connectors, with the goal that you can take your ModDIY (or whoever) extension, crimp contacts onto it, thread that through the chassis, then assemble the male molex on the end, and plug in.

The goal is a zero-solder solution. It would be an expensive mod for me to do as a one-off with all the R&D, buuuut I'm not going to trust my destructive-modification skills, soldering, vampire clipping etc on my own machine, and with spare parts becoming rare in the longer term I'd rather make something that doesn't alter the original parts & can be used by others, than pay an electrical engineer to do a one-off soldering job on my machine alone.

Anyone interested, and have any feedback, or suggestions for what you'd pay for it, please let me know.

Cheers.

 

[northernmunky]

At this stage, nah.
When I did have to modify some Mac Pro 5,1's to keep them alive a bit longer I managed to find a custom 4pin cable that draws power from the DVD drive power port which apparently delivers 150w. So that combined with the 2x 75w GPU power connectors gave me 300w to work with. Enough to drive a Vega 56 but not a Vega 64 as it turned out, but for my purposes a Vega 56 worked out just fine.

 

[aclarubicin]

At this stage, nah.
When I did have to modify some Mac Pro 5,1's to keep them alive a bit longer I managed to find a custom 4pin cable that draws power from the DVD drive power port which apparently delivers 150w. So that combined with the 2x 75w GPU power connectors gave me 300w to work with. Enough to drive a Vega 56 but not a Vega 64 as it turned out, but for my purposes a Vega 56 worked out just fine.

got a source for that 4pin cable?

 

[weckart]

I think people may have jumped on this a few years ago but with Apple's development concentration on AS to the detriment of legacy Intel hardware and the ridiculous cost of GPUs these days, the potential market for this must be dwindling away. I did the mod. It's perfectly reversible if I ever tire of it, as the original mod didn't need any soldering.

I wish you well with this anyway. It's an interesting addition to the hardware hacks on this forum.

 

[mode11]

It would only really be relevant for someone about to buy a 6800XT or 6900XT. The 6600XT is as fast as any previous gen GPU (granted the VII is faster for compute) and isn't expensive; the 6800 would spank all of them. Neither require more power than the MB can supply, though I guess it would give reassurance to 6800 owners, and avoid the 'need' for a PowerLink (though those are cheap anyway).

Anyone who is already running a powerful older GPU must have already done the Pixlas. About the only customers in that market would be Vega 56 owners who could then flip their BIOS from low power to high power, and perhaps flash the 64 firmware.

 

[northernmunky]

got a source for that 4pin cable?

This was a while back now when i was at a different company otherwise I'd dig out the source, I cant seem to find it at the moment. Long story short, you plug it into this port, which means you lose the CD drive, but gain 150w when thats split out into a single 8pin.

Worked a treat for Vega 56, but when I tried it on a Vega 64 I discovered it was drawing way more than the TDP it was advertised at (500w+)so the machine kept shutting itself off.

 

[mattspace]

I think people may have jumped on this a few years ago but with Apple's development concentration on AS to the detriment of legacy Intel hardware and the ridiculous cost of GPUs these days, the potential market for this must be dwindling away. I did the mod. It's perfectly reversible if I ever tire of it, as the original mod didn't need any soldering.

I wish you well with this anyway. It's an interesting addition to the hardware hacks on this forum.

I agree the potential market is uncertain, however let's not kid ourselves, the "AS Mac Pro" is not going to cost any less than the current Intel one - it will probably cost more on current trends. So a machine with decent graphics, and more than 64gb of ram, your option is still a 4,1/5,1 or a 2019 (and in my part of the world, there are a grand total of 3 on eBay, the cheapest of which is AUD$13k / USD$8600), or compromise on the graphics / storage / intel support and buy a studio.

It would only really be relevant for someone about to buy a 6800XT or 6900XT. The 6600XT is as fast as any previous gen GPU (granted the VII is faster for compute) and isn't expensive; the 6800 would spank all of them. Neither require more power than the MB can supply, though I guess it would give reassurance to 6800 owners, and avoid the 'need' for a PowerLink (though those are cheap anyway).

Yeah, I'm thinking more and more about my machine as something like a vintage car, and I think with all the interesting projects that have come along in the last year, be it internal USB hubs for the bluetooth, or alternate / expanded boot roms that this could be a nice "restomod" to add a safety factor to the continued running life of the machines.

The powerlink is cheapish, but listed as discontinued with every retailer here, and becoming more expensive on Amazon. I expect the supply to be exhausted eventually.

 

[tsialex]

The real hurdle will be the cost, if it's something reasonable people will choose it over a classic Pixla's mod.

Many people still need to run High Sierra/Mojave for audio applications/Adobe CS5/32bit etc and VEGA cards are still in high demand as the cost/performance ratio is very acceptable whereas Radeon VII is extremely expensive and requires Mojave. For people who don't need to boot previous versions of macOS, the RX 6600/6600XT is a much better option.

There is a market for a Pixla's mod plug and play solution, the real question is whether there are enough people to mass produce the bespoke connector and make it cheap enough. Chicken and egg situation.

 

[mattspace]

The real hurdle will be the cost, if it's something reasonable people will choose it over a classic Pixla's mod.

For comparison, an EVGA Powerlink costs AUD$40 from Amazon. I'm thinking closer to that, than to a replacement power supply if someone is worried about messing up the cables during a modification.

Many people still need to run High Sierra/Mojave for audio applications/Adobe CS5/32bit etc and VEGA cards are still in high demand as the cost/performance ratio is very acceptable whereas Radeon VII is extremely expensive and requires Mojave. For people who don't need to boot previous versions of macOS, the RX 6600/6600XT is a much better option.

The people I'm working with have prior experience in this sort of thing - adding reversible modifications to existing vintage systems in a non-destructive fashion. Their prior work includes adding inline strobe systems to the headlights of emergency responder vehicles, so basically the same sort of thing, a passthrough power modifier.

There is a market for a Pixla's mod plug and play solution, the real question is whether there are enough people to mass produce the bespoke connector and make it cheap enough. Chicken and egg situation.

Absolutely. The development cost is something I'm prepared to eat if it gets me a couple of working examples, and never sells a customer unit (again, because my choice is this, or many thousands of dollars for a Studio or 10's of thousands for a 2019+ Mac Pro). For a production run I'm toying with the idea of of a presale / reserve to start with.

 

[mode11]

because my choice is this, or many thousands of dollars for a Studio

How long do you intend to keep running your Mac Pro? Much as I love mine, I think I've got my money's worth by now. I'm waiting to see what Apple's intentions are regarding their higher-end desktops, and depending on that will likely buy a Studio. Or possibly a PC tower. Like many here though, I'm kinda getting sick of waiting for Apple to show their hand.

 

[mattspace]

How long do you intend to keep running your Mac Pro? Much as I love mine, I think I've got my money's worth by now. I'm waiting to see what Apple's intentions are regarding their higher-end desktops, and depending on that will likely buy a Studio. Or possibly a PC tower. Like many here though, I'm kinda getting sick of waiting for Apple to show their hand.

Well I don't need more power than my current Mac Pro, I don't really want to do more than it currently does, but I refuse to give Apple workstation money for an iPad appliance paradigm, so maybe I'll go to a Mini for non-serious work, and a Linux workstation for heavy lifting. Though, I'm also looking to see how much of my computing, especially all the data housing I can move to a Synology.

 

[Apple Fan 2008]

I don’t need it yet. I only have a 580 in mine.

 

[avro707]

I said yes, it would be useful, but the problem we have is that compatible video cards are dwindling as they get older.

Using something like a W6800 Radeon Pro would be fantastic.

 

[nathan_reilly]

I like the concept but I think the 580 is as far as I will take any of my 5,1 machines. When it is time, I will have to switch to PC. I thought the 2019 model would suffice but I don't see it as a long term solution for my shop.

 

[Stevenyo]

At this stage, nah.
When I did have to modify some Mac Pro 5,1's to keep them alive a bit longer I managed to find a custom 4pin cable that draws power from the DVD drive power port which apparently delivers 150w. So that combined with the 2x 75w GPU power connectors gave me 300w to work with. Enough to drive a Vega 56 but not a Vega 64 as it turned out, but for my purposes a Vega 56 worked out just fine.

You can run a Vega56 off just the original 2x mini 6pin PCIe connectors. I did for years. As long as you go 2x mini 6 pin -> single 8 pin -> 2x 8pin to distribute the load properly. The total power draw isn't a concern, but the peak to a single connector can be. I did have the system cut out on me 2 or three times when gaming in windows, but never in MacOS.

 

[Stevenyo]

It's a cool idea, I do have to agree with other posters it kinda seems too late for there to be a big market though. Most people who want to put super high end GPUs in their MacPros already have, and those who haven't would be perfectly well served by GPUs that don't need extra power -- if you're really benefitting from a GPU faster than an RX 6800 (which has been shown to work with un-modded systems, I believe), then you're likely not still running system that was discontinued a decade ago.

Of course, I'd probably buy one if it was affordable, would be fun to chuck my 680XT in there to say I did (it currently lives in a PC tower usually, my MacPro has been on back bench duty with an RX460 ever since I got bough an M1 Max MBP largely by selling off most of my GPU collection in 2021), but I don't want to modify the machine permanently for what's little more than a gag upgrade to me.

 

[Macschrauber]

I really doubt that the ODD Power socket delivers 150 Watt without burning. Its a 4 pin plug, so it has to deliver 3.3, 5 and 12 Volts plus GND of course. So 1 pin for 150 Watts is way too much.

 

[prefuse07]

I voted NO as I did Pixlas on my cMP and it was really easy to do, like. really. easy. I don't understand why people cry and run away, it's not a hard mod to do, not at all, just a little time consuming. No soldering required.

Also think this idea would have been better maybe 3-4 years ago when the market for the cMP was in a stronger state and big navi had just come out.

However, I do highly applaud you for continuing to support the cMP and increasing upgradeability access for others (that for whatever reason are scared of doing Pixlas).

 

[Apple Fan 2008]

I really doubt that the ODD Power socket delivers 150 Watt without burning. Its a 4 pin plug, so it has to deliver 3.3, 5 and 12 Volts plus GND of course. So 1 pin for 150 Watts is way too much.

Sorry, I had to 😂

 

[mattspace]

I said yes, it would be useful, but the problem we have is that compatible video cards are dwindling as they get older.

Using something like a W6800 Radeon Pro would be fantastic.

Yes, we're being rapidly squeezed between lack of drivers for new cards, and lack of production of cards for existing drivers - but again, I think that like in the vintage car world, lots of them are running off cleaned up salvaged parts.

At this stage, my projected R&D to get a working prototype, PLUS buying a W6800 at full retail, is less than a Mac Studio with as much RAM as my Mac Pro, and my Mac Pro can run all my old app workflows (Aperture etc.). That's pretty much my context for thinking about it.

 

[MisterAndrew]

I don’t think there is much reason to need Pixlas mod anymore. If you need faster performance than RX 6600 XT get a 7,1. Also, presumably, macOS 13.5 should include Radeon 7000 series drivers. There will be a new GPU that is fast and lower power, such as RX 7700 XT.

 

[mattspace]

I don’t think there is much reason to need Pixlas mod anymore. If you need faster performance than RX 6600 XT get a 7,1. Also, presumably, macOS 13.5 should include Radeon 7000 series drivers. There will be a new GPU that is fast and lower power, such as RX 7700 XT.

I admit my venn diagram for the target may be small (maybe just me), but here in Australia we still have people doing custom 5,1 builds that are around AU$2k as a business, because Apple never puts Mac Pros on refurb here, and the cheapest Mac that equals or exceeds the 5,1's RAM capacity is over AU$10k, and the lowest possible 2019 config from Apple is more than that.

Whether Ventura will ever work reliably to provide 7000 series drivers on the 5,1 🤷‍♂️

 

[MisterAndrew]

I admit my venn diagram for the target may be small (maybe just me), but here in Australia we still have people doing custom 5,1 builds that are around AU$2k as a business, because Apple never puts Mac Pros on refurb here, and the cheapest Mac that equals or exceeds the 5,1's RAM capacity is over AU$10k, and the lowest possible 2019 config from Apple is more than that.

Whether Ventura will ever work reliably to provide 7000 series drivers on the 5,1 🤷‍♂️

If they add the drivers to 13.5 then they'll probably add them to 12.6.7 also, but hard to say.

 

[avro707]

If they add the drivers to 13.5 then they'll probably add them to 12.6.7 also, but hard to say.

I hope so, but they might just make them ASI specific knowing Apple. I think they are going down a dead end.

I see 12.6.6 is available at the moment so 12.6.7 won't be too far away.

 

[grahf604]

I would be interested in this "pixlas cable" - if I understood correctly that it would cost around $40, that seems pretty reasonable for a custom made part.
I hear y'all that the DIY mod is "easy," but not for everybody. Also, as the MP 5,1 ages, the stock of unmodified and still working PSUs is shrinking.