Yosemite new design seems lazy

[colonel179]

I didn't like iOS 7 new look at all when it was announced. Then after trying the beta, I liked it even less. However, even though I didn't like Yosemite new look, I liked it a little better than iOS 7.

However, after seeing several screenshots, I am actually liking it a lot, and it looks cleaner and more elegant. (somehow, I still don't like iOS7/8 at all.

The only thing I just don't like at all, and it's something that made me not like it in iOS, is that they are being lazy when it comes to the design. They are just "transforming" everything into 2D, and they are not even being consistent about it.

What I mean is for example. When you want to select the time for an alarm clock in iOS 7, you still have a "wheel" and it still look like 3D. So they are trying to go for a 2D, plane look, but they are not doing it everywhere, and so it looks bad and inconsistent. In this example, the scrolling should look up and down, and not like a wheel.

Another thing about the inconsistency about 3D and 2D is the icons. While they have been doing a redesign for several icons in iOS that look 100% plane and go with the new style, like iWork, for Yosemite, they are just removing the 3D in the icons, and so it looks horrible (in most of the icons), and some of them, still have 3D traces like the Mail icon and the trash icon.

What they SHOULD do, is do a complete overhaul of the icons to make it consistent with the look they want to achieve. For me that is just being lazy, to just remove the 3D affect an call it the day.

Other things I don't like is the inconsistency (again) about the transparency. It's like they don't know where to put it, and they put it just for the sake of it, and not because they really have a reason to. There are some applications that have it, and others that don't, even though there should be (according to the ones that have it).

All in all, the OS looks nice, and it seems to be going back to pre-Leopard style. There are really good things about the new look, but sadly, there are a lot of things that don't match.

I don't know what's going on at Apple, but lately, they like to released things half-done. Ever since they released the disaster that was Maps, they just said "screw it" and kept releasing applications that are incomplete. The most recent one was iWork 5.

If releasing an OS yearly, will be the cause of having it in "beta" state every time, I wish they would still take several years to release an OS. I know it's free, and that's a good counter argument, but it's just not Apple-like. i became a fan of Apple, and I have loved them ever since i purchased my first MacBook Pro when Leopard released. I loved their perfectionism, now they like to settle for less.

 

[swindlenz]

Oh. For. The. Love. Of. God.

Here we go again, around and around and around and around...

Yosemite is currently in Developer Preview stage. Do you know what this means? Like, do you really know what this means? Think about it before you answer, should you choose too.

 

[pickaxe]

Wow, I agree wholeheartedly. I've been saying this a lot - the big issues I have with iOS 7 and Yosemite are not that they're different or that they're flat, it's that a lot of the changes are poorly done.

 

[notrack]

Style and usability indeed seem to go south on both OS. Hoping for better days rather sooner than later.

 

[crashoverride77]

Style and usability indeed seem to go south on both OS. Hoping for better days rather sooner than later.

Subjective comment.
Style and usability is finally coming back. Hoping for the old days to die sooner rather than later. See what I did there....

 

[Rogifan]

MacRumors needs one mega thread where everyone who hates Apple moving away from 3D can go complain. Newsflash: Apple software wasn't always consistent (or well liked) before these redesigns. I'm sure any one of us could point out something in iOS 6 & prior or Mavericks & prior that could be considered poorly implemented/unfinished/inconsistent/lazy.

 

[tkermit]

Apple software wasn't always consistent (or well liked) before these redesigns.

Remember the Brushed Metal vs. Aqua debate...?

 

[colourfastt]

Remember the Brushed Metal vs. Aqua debate...?

The brushed metal look I can get behind; it's much better than the translucency Apple is pushing now. Also, it would be nice if Apple would bring back the coloured icons in the Finder Sidebar.

 

[SarcasticJoe]

Somebody sure seems to think their opinions are important...

Seriously thou, this is an internet forum, not your blog, so keep the blog posts to your blog and if you actually want to express your opinion, write it into your blog or one of the half dozen other threads already bitching about the new design.

In my opinion the new design is "lazy" in the same way Apple's hardware is. It's what I'd call "minimalist" or "simply grown up". No need for bright neon colors, all kinds of obnoxious visual clues to queue what something does even for those with ADD and most importantly, less of the 3D effects they like showing into 2D UI's these days.

 

[scottsjack]

Somebody sure seems to think their opinions are important...

Seriously thou, this is an internet forum, not your blog, so keep the blog posts to your blog and if you actually want to express your opinion, write it into your blog or one of the half dozen other threads already bitching about the new design.

In my opinion the new design is "lazy" in the same way Apple's hardware is. It's what I'd call "minimalist" or "simply grown up". No need for bright neon colors, all kinds of obnoxious visual clues to queue what something does even for those with ADD and most importantly, less of the 3D effects they like showing into 2D UI's these days.

Not quite. "Minimalist" in design it certainly is. "Simply grown up" it is not. My reasoning for that is that grownups have expectations in computers that Apple does not address like upgradeability, a useful number of ports and backward compatibility.

 

[Rogifan]

Remember the Brushed Metal vs. Aqua debate...?

Yes, exactly. If Apple released something like Aqua now people would be screaming that it's fugly and Steve Jobs would never have approved it. Point is design is completely subjective (I happen to like the translucency) and whatever Apple does someone isn't going to like it and will claim Steve wouldn't have approved anything they don't like.

 

[hamis92]

Yes, exactly. If Apple released something like Aqua now people would be screaming that it's fugly and Steve Jobs would never have approved it. Point is design is completely subjective (I happen to like the translucency) and whatever Apple does someone isn't going to like it and will claim Steve wouldn't have approved anything they don't like.

People use the word 'design' carelessly.

Aesthetics are a matter of opinion. Whilst aesthetics are a part of a design, 'design' is really about how something works, which for the most part is not subjective. It's important to not confuse aesthetics and styling, something that's superficial, with 'design'. If we look at design, there aren't many things in Yosemite that are different from Mavericks and earlier – what's new and what most people are getting upset about is the new direction in styling, the looks.

 

[haravikk]

Yosemite is currently in Developer Preview stage. Do you know what this means? Like, do you really know what this means? Think about it before you answer, should you choose too.

Will people please stop with this "developer preview" generic response to everything already? It doesn't add anything to the discussion whatsoever, and the way people keep parroting it doesn't even mean anything more, it may as well be trolling.

If what you meant to say was "since it's in developer preview, the UI may not be final yet" then sure, that's relevant, and Apple is almost certainly still working to refine consistency and to properly replace 3d elements with 2d ones in as many places as they can.

But the discussion includes coverage of iOS 7, which had the same issue with consistency when moving away from skeumorphism, presumably because Apple is now stuck on short timescales which makes it hard to do a fully consistent overhaul in time, which is the OP's point. I don't agree that Apple are being "lazy", but it does seem unlikely that they're going to be able to overhaul everything in a single pass. Take Mavericks as an example as well; many apps did away with the old skeumorphic interfaces, but ended up being somewhat ugly as they didn't get a proper redesign in the process.

When you look at it more closely, this is partly why Yosemite doesn't have any more major UI changes; the UI isn't actually that different from Mavericks in terms of functionality, only looks. This is presumably because Apple need to focus on just changing the appearance first, because they won't have time to do a lot else in terms of the UI, which means 10.11 may be the release that starts adding more functional UI changes.

So anyway, I do see the OP's point, and I do think it'll be a while before even Apple's own apps all fully conform to the new Yosemite style of UI, as there's a lot of work to be done. That's not to mention all the apps by other developers that take time to be updated to conform. So even a year or two later Yosemite is still going to be somewhat inconsistent!

 

[Rogifan]

People use the word 'design' carelessly.

Aesthetics are a matter of opinion. Whilst aesthetics are a part of a design, 'design' is really about how something works, which for the most part is not subjective. It's important to not confuse aesthetics and styling, something that's superficial, with 'design'. If we look at design, there aren't many things in Yosemite that are different from Mavericks and earlier – what's new and what most people are getting upset about is the new direction in styling, the looks.

Exactly. Also not really fair to compare a new design to something that has been around and refined for years. Let's see what the new iOS and OSX design language looks like after it's been around for 5 years. I fully expect it to be refined and rough edges smoothed out. But I don think that means going back to heavy skeuomorphism and 3D.

----------

When you look at it more closely, this is partly why Yosemite doesn't have any more major UI changes; the UI isn't actually that different from Mavericks in terms of functionality, only looks. This is presumably because Apple need to focus on just changing the appearance first, because they won't have time to do a lot else in terms of the UI, which means 10.11 may be the release that starts adding more functional UI changes.

Apple saw what happened with Microsoft and Windows 8. They won't make any radical changes to functionality unless there's a very good reason for doing so or some huge paradigm shift in modern computing.

 

[SarcasticJoe]

Not quite. "Minimalist" in design it certainly is. "Simply grown up" it is not. My reasoning for that is that grownups have expectations in computers that Apple does not address like upgradeability, a useful number of ports and backward compatibility.

So your basic argument against the software being "grown up" is in the hardware? That's like saying Canadian healthcare isn't good because the U.S spends too much of "defense". It's a completely retarded comeback.

 

[mmomega]

Not quite. "Minimalist" in design it certainly is. "Simply grown up" it is not. My reasoning for that is that grownups have expectations in computers that Apple does not address like upgradeability, a useful number of ports and backward compatibility.

I would remove the entire grown up term from this. it has nothing to do with the conversation.
The expectations you mention are because someone has had an experience on a different machine which had those options.
Now that same someone buys a computer that does not have those options and being upset or irritated that it doesn't.
This is not the fault of the computer or the manufacturer because there are options out there.
The first being, listing what is important to you as an end user and buying a computer that meets those important needs. Now, there is not need to be irritated anymore.

Just stop expecting something to conform to your wants, buy what you want/need. Again if it doesn't fulfill those needs, don't buy it. It is quite simple.

It would be like me saying a swimming pool if very very important to me when I buy a house because my past houses have always had swimming pools. Then I go buy a house with no pool and start complaining to everyone that it does not have a pool. If we want to use the term though then "Grown ups" would say, either find a way to get that pool installed or find another house if it is that important.

 

[AQUADock]

The brushed metal look I can get behind; it's much better than the translucency Apple is pushing now. Also, it would be nice if Apple would bring back the coloured icons in the Finder Sidebar.

You can turn off translucency in both mavericks and ios 7.

 

[MacRobert10]

Regarding Yosemite, there are too many fairly serious complaints by too many people on too many web sites to be ignored, but complaining on a web site will do nothing. Here is some contact information for Apple if anyone really wants to take action:


https://www.apple.com/feedback/macosx.html

If you would prefer to write a complaint, here's the address for that too:

Apple, Inc.
1 Infinite Loop
Cupertino, CA 95014

It's the people that complain that will help Apple. Some people notice every little nuance, some people never notice anything.

I'll probably re-post this on other "complaint" threads too.

 

[KoolAid-Drink]

Which is exactly why Apple should move back to a 2-year release cycle for OS X, to give them more time to refine the UI/squash bugs.

Will people please stop with this "developer preview" generic response to everything already? It doesn't add anything to the discussion whatsoever, and the way people keep parroting it doesn't even mean anything more, it may as well be trolling.

If what you meant to say was "since it's in developer preview, the UI may not be final yet" then sure, that's relevant, and Apple is almost certainly still working to refine consistency and to properly replace 3d elements with 2d ones in as many places as they can.

But the discussion includes coverage of iOS 7, which had the same issue with consistency when moving away from skeumorphism, presumably because Apple is now stuck on short timescales which makes it hard to do a fully consistent overhaul in time, which is the OP's point. I don't agree that Apple are being "lazy", but it does seem unlikely that they're going to be able to overhaul everything in a single pass. Take Mavericks as an example as well; many apps did away with the old skeumorphic interfaces, but ended up being somewhat ugly as they didn't get a proper redesign in the process.

When you look at it more closely, this is partly why Yosemite doesn't have any more major UI changes; the UI isn't actually that different from Mavericks in terms of functionality, only looks. This is presumably because Apple need to focus on just changing the appearance first, because they won't have time to do a lot else in terms of the UI, which means 10.11 may be the release that starts adding more functional UI changes.

So anyway, I do see the OP's point, and I do think it'll be a while before even Apple's own apps all fully conform to the new Yosemite style of UI, as there's a lot of work to be done. That's not to mention all the apps by other developers that take time to be updated to conform. So even a year or two later Yosemite is still going to be somewhat inconsistent!

 

[Charcoalwerks]

Am I alone in wishing brushed metal was still an option? I always thought that looked slick.

 

[age234]

Remember the Brushed Metal vs. Aqua debate...?

That UI certainly looks dated by today's standards, and by no means should it be resurrected per se, but it looks like it has a soul. It makes me happy to look at it. Same with the spherical iMac.

That's what is missing now, I think. Yosemite looks cool and sleek (mostly), but it evokes no feeling. It's really kind of bland. Cool, but bland. I just don't get anything out of Jony Ive's kind of minimalist design.

Some would say that's a good thing, but I never had problems doing real work on a Mac that still had some playful intrigue to it.

 

[VirtualRain]

Another thing about the inconsistency about 3D and 2D is the icons. While they have been doing a redesign for several icons in iOS that look 100% plane and go with the new style, like iWork, for Yosemite, they are just removing the 3D in the icons, and so it looks horrible (in most of the icons), and some of them, still have 3D traces like the Mail icon and the trash icon.

What they SHOULD do, is do a complete overhaul of the icons to make it consistent with the look they want to achieve. For me that is just being lazy, to just remove the 3D affect an call it the day.

Other things I don't like is the inconsistency (again) about the transparency. It's like they don't know where to put it, and they put it just for the sake of it, and not because they really have a reason to. There are some applications that have it, and others that don't, even though there should be (according to the ones that have it).

Agree. The icons are a mess. And the third party ones even worse of course because Apple essentially has no style guide of their own, so how can anyone else be expected to design to it?!

In regards to transparency, I really like it because in a way it customizes the pallet of some parts of apps to match your desktop wallpaper. If you have a bright green wallpaper, you'll end up with slight shades of green in apps that support transparency. However, I'm not sure it's inconsistent is it? I only really notice it in sidebars and chrome (tool bars) on windows with scrolling content. Is it in other places too?

In my mind, ideally there should be sliders in system preferences to adjust transparency system wide for chrome, sidebars, and even the content area. There's no reason in my mind that finders folders and files area can't offer some transparency to allow some colour through from the desktop wallpaper.

Also "Dark Mode" is very half-assed implemented as well... It only changes the characteristics of the menu bar and dock... All the other UI elements are a stark white that looks very jarring in dark mode.

I don't know what's going on at Apple, but lately, they like to released things half-done. Ever since they released the disaster that was Maps, they just said "screw it" and kept releasing applications that are incomplete. The most recent one was iWork 5.

I agree. It's confounding, because it's not like they don't have the money or resources to do nearly anything they want. They are not a resource constrained company walking a thin financial line. Yet they appear incapable of doing any software properly, completely, and without issue or compromise these days which is in stark contrast to the past and one of the attributes that made Apple great and so adored. The amount of half-baked or languishing software products at Apple continues to reach new highs every year.

I'm afraid what they will do with their reinvention of the "Photos" app? How long will it take to have a fully functioning app there? 2? 3? 5? Years?!

 

[paris18m]

Seriously guys, you talk like 80 year old ladies that got used on how their washing machine looked for 40 years and could not bare getting to use a shiny new one!

Aesthetically OS X 10 is much more polished and refined than previous version in all directions, when I installed the developer beta on my main machine a few weeks ago it was like night and day. OS X 10 Looks so fresh and so refined in every single place that it was like getting a new Mac! ( update: yet for free )

 

[phrozend]

Regarding Yosemite, there are too many fairly serious complaints by too many people on too many web sites to be ignored, but complaining on a web site will do nothing. [...]

I'm willing to bet you're wrong on this one. Not saying you don't have a valid point, though, I just want to point out that people who are satisfied with something are much less likely to share their views. In reality, its almost impossible to gauge how many are satisfied with Yosemite contra how many are dissatisfied. At least not by reading this forum. I guess you could get a better estimate by checking out how many % of the beta-testers have reverted back to Mavericks and I'm sure Apple got those numbers and are analyzing them.

I would also be willing to say that the average problems people got with Yosemite - other than bugs - are mostly regarding esthetics, not functionality or anything serious in that sense.

Again, I get your point, though, I just wanted to add my worthless two cents to it.

[...] but it's just not Apple-like. i became a fan of Apple, and I have loved them ever since i purchased my first MacBook Pro when Leopard released. I loved their perfectionism, now they like to settle for less.

If I was an employee at Apple, I would actually recommend you to move to another platform. I know thats a d!ck-thing to say, but I'm not sure I would want you as a customer because you got this idea about "the essence of Apple" that more and more people seem to get wrong. Its become a part of the zeitgeist and it really annoys me. I advice you to really do some self-reflection and go back in time and think about that MacBook Pro Leopard-era some more. That was not perfection. You're just thinking it was because you've got these sentimental, nostalgic memories. I get why people have a connection to, lets say, the first car they bought, but man... seriously... Get with it.

That is not to say I don't agree with some of your points, but you ruin your arguments by doing that "this is not Apple", "they used to be about perfection" rubbish. Go find a company that suits you and your needs better. Good riddance. I know it might seem like I'm beating up on you, but I'm speaking generally to anyone with a complaint like this.

 

[kappaknight]

So your basic argument against the software being "grown up" is in the hardware? That's like saying Canadian healthcare isn't good because the U.S spends too much of "defense". It's a completely retarded comeback.

It's not the best comparison, but it does have merit. Apple designs both the hardware and software - and the two should line up somewhat. Had OS X move more towards iOS 6 designs, I'd expect new MacBooks to look like hardcover books when I buy them.

Which is exactly why Apple should move back to a 2-year release cycle for OS X, to give them more time to refine the UI/squash bugs.

Not possible. In this "post PC" era, OS X is no longer the main event. It needs to pair and keep up with iOS in terms of development, and the mobile space moves too quickly for Apple to sit in a two year development cycle.

On another note, aesthetics aside, have you guys actually tried focusing on your work flow to see how the new changes have either increased or decreased your productivity or enjoyment of the device? Sure, we can sit back and scrutinize every pixel on the device and of icons if we want to, but ultimately, that isn't what makes an OS great. Maybe 500 people will do so a few times a year, but the rest of the users are using OS X because it flows well, not because icons in System Preferences look a certain way better than other OS'es.

I for one can say I really like Yosemite because the new changes are nice. The UI/UX changes are different enough from Mavericks to feel new, but minimizing the top bars on several of the windows so we can focus on content is also welcomed. If you work in web, you may be irked that Safari now only shows the domain name by default, (I am), but at the same time, showing only the domain for most of the users provides them just the info they need to do what they need to do. Consumers just want to know where they're at, not necessarily what part of the building they're in - and it's touches like this that boost productivity just a lil bit for people that I appreciate.