1,1 CPU upgrade

[MagicBoy]

If it's that obvious, give me some hard multitasking stats for a typical workload to prove your assertion.

I'm not arguing the OS X point. Apple's own applications are very much best of breed as they know how to get the best out of the architecture and the APIs. Even the inconspicuous bundled apps like Mail are heavily multithreaded. Until the workload gets to the point that quad 3GHz cores is a limit, you're going feel no difference with an extra four cores available.

IME once you get to quad cores there's very little difference in "feel". My rMBP is currently ticking along on between 5 and 10% per active core at under 1.5GHz, and it's seemingly ignoring hyper threading. That's on Haswell - it's somewhat simpler on a 1,1 as the power saving states and architecture is less advanced.

 

[hwojtek]

If it's that obvious, give me some hard multitasking stats for a typical workload to prove your assertion.

With a single open tab Safari uses over 30 threads. Here's my computer sitting idle.

Please provide me with some evidence that it's better to have processors with less cores but better single-core performance.
A very simple program like mpegstreamclip dating to 2008 or even earlier, is capable of saturating 3 cores of a Mac system (processor usage ~320%). On a 4-core this leaves about 80% of a single core to handle everything else. No matter how good single-core performance of a processor would be, you create a bottleneck. Which would not happen if you had more cores, even if they would perform worse.

Until the workload gets to the point that quad 3GHz cores is a limit, you're going feel no difference with an extra four cores available.

Did you switch from 4-core to 8-core on the otherwise same system, specifically a Mac Pro?

 

[MagicBoy]

With a single open tab Safari uses over 30 threads. Here's my computer sitting idle.

The 20 threads for the open tab are using 3.9% of a single core. Where's the advantage in more cores?

Please provide me with some evidence that it's better to have processors with less cores but better single-core performance.

You posted the original assertion, therefore it's only polite for you to provide some evidence first.

A very simple program like mpegstreamclip dating to 2008 or even earlier, is capable of saturating 3 cores of a Mac system (processor usage ~320%). On a 4-core this leaves about 80% of a single core to handle everything else. No matter how good single-core performance of a processor would be, you create a bottleneck. Which would not happen if you had more cores, even if they would perform worse.

I addressed that in post #24.

Did you switch from 4-core to 8-core on the otherwise same system, specifically a Mac Pro?

I don't use a Mac Pro at home. We have both 4 and 8-core Mac Pros at work. The 8-core was bought specifically for FCP, there was no performance justification for anything more than 4-cores in graphic design work.

 

[F1Mac]

My x5365s arrived yesterday! Today is the big day!! I just need to get the screwdrivers then I dive into my Mac Pro!

 

[F1Mac]

...ok so first step is done, I've successfully upgraded my firmware to 2,1. At first only one of my CPUs was recognized, after resetting the SMC everything was back to normal. This is still on the stock 5160s... Break for lunch, and then it's the big moment

 

[monokakata]

I know the feeling. Post as soon as you can.

 

[F1Mac]

Tadaaaaa!!!!


Before:

...And.....After!!!!


.

[doublepost=1464294671][/doublepost]Here's another before/after with istatsmenu:


With the 5160s:

And now with the 5365s:

...Interestingly, riser B wasn't there on the first report. Never paid attention before.

My only concern right now is that I hope I applied the thermal paste properly - I guess so but still... Geekbench score obvisouly doubled on the multicore tests. Nice!!!!
[doublepost=1464295264][/doublepost]Encoding video right now, just to watch the magic happen ......

Here's what iStatsMenu tells me:

Do you gus find these numbers normal?

oh and sorry about the ºC!! Here it is in ºF:

[doublepost=1464295676][/doublepost]is it normal for the CPU cores to go up to 77.50/78A when the CPUs max out? (I don't remember how it was with the 5160s...)

 

[owbp]

@Morpheo , Congrats one more time, CPU temps look great.
They can go way hotter if you let them work for some time, crunching some Yeses© for instance

yes > /dev/null & yes > /dev/null & yes > /dev/null & yes > /dev/null & yes > /dev/null & yes > /dev/null & yes > /dev/null & yes > /dev/null &

Just don't forget to

killall yes

after you're done with it.

I have to ask you something, seeing that you have same "symptoms".
Highest temp on my PSU was about 41C when doing desktop work, youtube and so on, nothing demanding.
Few days ago i bought 8 more gigs of RAM, Samsung from HP (thin sinks and all), and now i have AMB IC on FBDIMM for the first time in istats, my CPU/Mem and Exhaust Fans are on higher RPM (reving for a minute when waking from sleep) but what worries me most, PSU idle is 50-51C.
So I'm using MacsFanControl to keep it under 40C, but i don't know what PSU temps are in normal range, whats recommended an so on.
Im seeing your temps are in the same range so I'm wondering for how long have they been that way and do you know if they're safe. I would love to turn off MFC and keep my MP quieter, like it was with only 8GB of Kingston big heatsink RAM.

 

[F1Mac]

I have to ask you something, seeing that you have same "symptoms".
Highest temp on my PSU was about 41C when doing desktop work, youtube and so on, nothing demanding.
Few days ago i bought 8 more gigs of RAM, Samsung from HP (thin sinks and all), and now i have AMB IC on FBDIMM for the first time in istats, my CPU/Mem and Exhaust Fans are on higher RPM (reving for a minute when waking from sleep) but what worries me most, PSU idle is 50-51C.
So I'm using MacsFanControl to keep it under 40C, but i don't know what PSU temps are in normal range, whats recommended an so on.

hmm to be honest I never really checked them before. Given I had the stock CPUs and the Mac has been rock solid for nearly 10 years now... After about one hour of handbrake encoding with the new CPUs (HD file with AppleTV3 preset), my PSUs are sitting at 61ºC (supply 1) and 84ºC (supply 2). I notice the PSU fan is still going at its defaut rpm (600 rpm or so) so *I guess* going as high as 84 isn't worrying otherwise the fan would have kicked in already. When my encoding is done I'll check again (45mn to go - which would have taken 4 hours yesterday )

I'm curious to hear what the others have to say regarding the PSU temps.

 

[owbp]

Ive noticed that too, encoding or gaming in bootcamp PSU temps will go freakishly high with fans still at stock speed.
I know that 1,1-3,1 have much higher PSU temps than 4,1-5,1 and mine 1,1 is working rock solid, just wondering what is considered safe and not taking too much of the life span from capacitors.

I'm curious to hear what the others have to say regarding the PSU temps.

+1

 

[F1Mac]

Ive noticed that too, encoding or gaming in bootcamp PSU temps will go freakishly high with fans still at stock speed.

Encode is finished, and my PSU temps have gone down quite a bit now:

FYI I'm still letting them run at their default speed.

I'm assuming these temps are normal - but a confirmation wouldn't hurt either

 

[owbp]

I'm assuming these temps are normal - but a confirmation wouldn't hurt either

Yes, our temperatures are almost the same. As you said, just one or two more confirmations and i'll uninstall MFC and stop obsessing.

 

[Ultracyclist]

My cMP runs at the same temps, TBH I never questioned it at all.

 

[F1Mac]

Another check this morning... The Mac stayed on all night but completely idle, PSU 1&2 is now at 51/53º. Another thing I noticed since yesterday (could it be because I removed quite a bit of dust while I doing the installation?) is that my CPU fan and Exhaust fan are now running about 200 rpm slower when the computer is idle (by idle I mean either totally idle or when I write this with Mail and iTunes in the background...)

So far for less than $200 bucks I am super happy with this upgrade

 

[Surrat]

Remember that although those x5365 are cool running when idling, or light use, they are rated for 150 watts.
The original 5160 3ghz is 80 watt. So at max load they are throwing out almost double the heat of the 5160.

Just keep an eye on temps if you ever load all 8 cores down to max.

The real mac pro 2,1 that the x5365 came with, does not use the same heatsinks as the 1,1. It uses 3 full length heat pipes per heatsink, the 1,1 mac pro uses two half length heat pipes. So, the 2,1 and 3,1 both have 3x the heat pipes of the 1,1, because they run hotter cpu's. From the 3,1 I have worked on, and the real 2,1 I have here, I'm about 95% sure the 3,1 heatsinks will work fine on a 1,1 to give it the proper cooling for an x5365.

 

[F1Mac]

Remember that although those x5365 are cool running when idling, or light use, they are rated for 150 watts.
The original 5160 3ghz is 80 watt. So at max load they are throwing out almost double the heat of the 5160.

Just keep an eye on temps if you ever load all 8 cores down to max.

The real mac pro 2,1 that the x5365 came with, does not use the same heatsinks as the 1,1. It uses 3 full length heat pipes per heatsink, the 1,1 mac pro uses two half length heat pipes. So, the 2,1 and 3,1 both have 3x the heat pipes of the 1,1, because they run hotter cpu's. From the 3,1 I have worked on, and the real 2,1 I have here, I'm about 95% sure the 3,1 heatsinks will work fine on a 1,1 to give it the proper cooling for an x5365.

Thanks for these infos Surrat.


I'm also considering removing the superdrives (I have two) as they're pretty much useless these days, *and* I have an external Blu-ray drive as well. I'm not sure how much of a difference it would make for the PSU but I guess a little more air in there can't hurt?

 

[Wharfedaler]

Go for it, I did and am very happy about it!

Thanks for the sight of your specs. One question, which I am very curious about. I flight sim on x-plane, and since they went 64bit my mac3.1 , now with 32gb ram and the mac verssion of the radeon HD7950 with 3 gb vram can have all the settings turned up full and works like a dream. I was worried, however, about upgrading my 1.1 now 2.1 mac pro with a hot graphics card. The reason I am concerned is thatthe 1.1 only has a pcie slot at 1.1. At a pinch adding my mac edition hd7950 with pcie 2.0 might work but anything else will bottleneck on the pcie 1.1 slot. Ok, i modded the 1.1/2.1 to now be 64 bit and with 32 gb ram the 64 bit x-plane will start using ram if the pcie bottlenecks the vram, but i have noticed i have to significantly reduce my settings to get un- juddery graphics. Anyone know of a good grahics card that has lots vram and copes with a pcie 1.1slot. Nb , i currently use the hd 5770.