10.8 Moutain Lion carries 6950/70 fix (and Fermi refinements too) !!!

[MacVidCards]

Where did the "Pro" Go?

4) "Jeez, this guy is kind of a DB."
5) "Wow, look at said DB blow up

Name calling is always a true sign of class.

It's funny that every day a new thread pops up where people lament the fact that the Mac Pro has lost it's "Pro" status due to the iToy Phenomenon.

These boards used to be a place to come and find out about latest Mac Hardware and how to get it running.

When I first needed 8800GT flashing info I came here. Nicely detailed threads where a group of like minded people worked out the mysteries around the EFI32 vs EFI64 versions.

This was the place for serious discourse and discovery.

I came here with info about a new discovery in 10.8 about a GPU that many people were curious about. I expected to get responses from people who had these cards or were ready to experiment with them. I was hoping that I could find some serious people ready to make some discoveries and move the general state of knowledge forward.

I did not expect that it was my personal responsibility to explain all aspects of every detail about all recent card flashing, etc. I honestly do not see that as my responsibility nor will I engage in it. It is very easy to tell questions asked by people who have interest and have done some research versus questions asked by tourists who saw something shiny in the window and decided to ask questions because they had their curiosity piqued as they surfed by.

So while members here bemoan the iToy dumbing down of the OS and their machines, you are now demanding that Pro level experimentation get dumbed down to entry level or you don't want to hear about it.

If I can't explain things so that every possible reader can understand, I am being a "DB". If I don't answer every question, no matter how infantile or foolish, I am being a "DB".

I made a discovery on Feb 16th and posted it on 2 sites. This discovery got posted as news at 3 or 4 sites before it finally got reposted in this very forum as "News" on the 21st. Oddly, nobody grilled the reposter or demanded that he explain in detail.

You want the latest info on Mac GPUs? It can't always be posted with pretty color photos, arrows, and a detailed step-by-step "How To". Sometimes it just gets posted and people who "get it" can do something with it. Sometimes you might even have to think for yourselves and use the search bar and google if you want the information to mean something to you. People who are interested and have motivation will do this and ask questions that show they cared enough to do some of their own research. And those people I will gladly help.

While people daily bemoan how OSX and Macs are getting brought down to a Lowest Common Denominator level for the 14 year old "facebooking from the mall" crowd, here I am getting dragged over the coals because I won't courteously answer any and every question regarding Mac GPUs. You can't have it both ways.

I feel that I am expected to only post GPU info that can be easily broken down into 4 word tweets, understandable by anybody. You can't have it both ways.

I will be happy to restrict my future posts to Netkas and InsanelyMac. You will end up with the same info here, just 5 days later from a reposter who CAN'T answer any questions. I quit posting here before and I'll be happy to do it again.

If this is no longer a place for cutting edge info, I'll be glad to take it elsewhere. If you look back, you'll see that I am not the only "pro" to quit posting here. When any serious discourse gets yelled down by the masses who demand that it gets explained to them until they understand, then nothing gets done here except rehashing reposts from the more serious boards. If that is what you guys want, great.

But for the life of me I can not understand why people can't be expected to avail themselves of things like "google" and the search function. When JimBob Johnson comes here and says he put a 6870 in his 2,1 and it ran his 24" Apple Display with no trouble in 10.6.8, he meant it. He didn't hallucinate, he isn't likely a mole from AMD trying to move an extra 10 boards, and he probably isn't a vicious scoundrel playing tricks upon the Macrumours community. In other words, whenever a member here says they tried something and it worked...IT WORKED FOR THEM AND IT WILL PROABLY WORK FOR YOU TOO.

The reverse of that is that when someone comes on here and says their unlashed 5870 stopped running their DisplayPort monitor when they ran the 10.6.8 update, they didn't suddenly go blind or crazy. So if you have an unlashed 6870, running the 10.6.8 will probably make your DisplayPort Display go black too. You have a tremendous resource here, USE IT !!!

Every time someone asks a question that could easily be answered with some simple research the value of all the past experience here is being tossed in the trash. They are in effect saying, "I don't believe anything anyone has posted in the past, I want an answer custom crafted just for me." This totally devalues the wealth of experience that hundreds of members have had.

All GPU info can't be reduced to something easily readable on an iPhone screen. Aim higher. Do you want cutting edge info posted here by people making discoveries or do you want to rehash some reposts from the "pro" sites?

It is this very "make it accessible to the masses" mentality that is making our OS and machines increasingly geared to the twitter crowd. "Wowie, I can post a picture of me driving Paris Hilton's Bentley !!! Yippity !!! " You can demand more. You can expect people to ask intelligent, researched questions rather than just responding with their emotional response to a cute puppy picture.

So, while I would rather post info about the latest discoveries on Mac GPUs in latest Mac OS versions I could always just post pictures of me hanging out at The Playboy Mansion that I took with my iPhone.

Frankly my dear, I don't give a darn. If you guys prefer a simpler, friendlier board geared down so that nobody gets left out, great. I'll be happy to post elsewhere. If I post here, it will be latest info for the latest cards in latest OS. If not, fine. I'm not going to post dumbed down versions for the iToys "short attention span" crowd.

 

[highdefw]

jesus, i just want to know if these cards work or not so I can run Starcraft at higher frame rates. Just these massive all of texts are all I see

 

[MacVidCards]

jesus, i just want to know if these cards work or not so I can run Starcraft at higher frame rates. Just these massive all of texts are all I see

these cards work

 

[Cindori]

69xx card inserted in any Mac Pro with ML will behave like this:

• No bootscreen
• Problems with some apps like itunes, chess (this was fixed for 10.7.x so netkas can probably fix for these drivers too)
• Awesome performance
• Works out of the box

all you need to know really.
the big question is whether we can port these drivers back to 10.7.3 and get support today.

 

[Inconsequential]

Google and the "Search" bar up on right corner are your friends. Feel free to use them when you have a break from analyzing other people's lives.

I REFUSE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS THAT HAVE BEEN ANSWERED AT LEAST A DOZEN TIMES BEFORE. IF YOU DON'T LIKE THAT DON'T COME POSTING IN A THREAD I STARTED !!!

I'm sure that you are doing a grand service standing up for the rights of the Lowest Common Denominator, please just do it in someone else's thread.

And yet again you assumed that I haven't done all this.

I have. BUT there are hundreds of conflicting reports, let alone getting the 'right' card (typically ATi designs seem to work best).

As Cindori put above, that is the answer I would have liked for the 6800 series of cards.

However given that netkas, etc work magic and now have 10.8 to work with then 6900 could very well be on the cards as well.

If I could make a suggestion: Perhaps start a thread answering every possible question anyone could ask about using PC cards in a mac. I did this years ago on how to overclock R520 and people found it very useful.

 

[Cindori]

If I could make a suggestion: Perhaps start a thread answering every possible question anyone could ask about using PC cards in a mac. I did this years ago on how to overclock R520 and people found it very useful.

there is one, the Golden Guide, but things change so fast that it's hard to keep a guide like that up to date :/

 

[MacVidCards]

If I could make a suggestion: Perhaps start a thread answering every possible question anyone could ask about using PC cards in a mac. I did this years ago on how to overclock R520 and people found it very useful.

This is exactly and precisely what I just said I would not do.

I can't guys. I really can't.

Here is your chance, or Mr. Psychologist-in-training's chance to make a HUGE contribution. Start the thread. Answer "every possible question anyone could ask about using PC cards in a Mac". I personally look forward to it.

 

[Inconsequential]

there is one, the Golden Guide, but things change so fast that it's hard to keep a guide like that up to date :/

Heh. I forgot about that thread.

As you said it is quite out of date. I know Lion and ML has brought more to the table.

This is exactly and precisely what I just said I would not do.

I can't guys. I really can't.

Here is your chance, or Mr. Psychologist-in-training's chance to make a HUGE contribution. Start the thread. Answer "every possible question anyone could ask about using PC cards in a Mac". I personally look forward to it.

I've done my contribution to hardware forums over the years, nor am I in ANY sort of position to start a thread on a subject I don't comprehensively understand.

The R520 I understood because I spent weeks messing about with three cards. I haven't touched a GPU since the 4870 and haven't flashed anything GPU related since the R520. (Flashed a BR drive tho).

Guides on how to flash, how to modify roms and all that is quite easily available and I have done it myself.

What the END RESULT of me EFI'ing a 6 series card is where I am puzzled.

 

[wonderspark]

...I expected to get responses from people who had these cards or were ready to experiment with them. I was hoping that I could find some serious people ready to make some discoveries and move the general state of knowledge forward.

It would have made a lot more sense to indicate that you were even looking for people willing to experiment with cards, then. Your first post didn't say that at all. You forgot to add a sentence such as, "Anyone want to help us port these drivers back to 10.7.3 and get support today?"

For someone that wrote an insanely long post about the Bentley-driving, puppy-loving Twitter crowd being the lowest common denominator with a short attention span, it sure seems hypocritical to accuse anyone but yourself of being lazy. If you're ripping into someone, you write like a hero... but to answer a question is too much for you, because you have the idea that asking a question is akin to throwing "the value of all the past experience here ... in the trash..." as if that makes any sense.

Perhaps you haven't noticed, but crying your eyes out about how dumb everyone else is just pollutes any search results with your nonsense, rather than provide info to be found. It would have taken 1/10th as much effort to repeat something short and meaningful. Instead, you've created the opposite effect you desire, and watered down the information with your tantrums.

Sincere thanks to people like Cindori and others who actually care about sharing information and encouraging the spread of knowledge.

 

[wallysb01]

Name calling is always a true sign of class.
.
.
.

Frankly my dear, I don't give a darn. If you guys prefer a simpler, friendlier board geared down so that nobody gets left out, great. I'll be happy to post elsewhere. If I post here, it will be latest info for the latest cards in latest OS. If not, fine. I'm not going to post dumbed down versions for the iToys "short attention span" crowd.

Jesus, man. I'm glad you spent all that time to write this rant, because I sure didn't read it. I did however copy it into Word, and you just wrote over 1000 words after complaining about not wanting to answer simple questions, which you could have have just posted links to. Instead of doing such thing, you've now spent probably several orders of magnitude more time twisting about, getting your panties in knot.

Second, I love it when people make some long rant to and end with some variation of "I don't give a darn". Obviously you do, otherwise why did you just write out some 1000+ word directed towards me?

Third, I'm not terribly interested in what the guy acting like a douche thinks is class. Obviously, his perspective is a little off, or has rules for others, but not himself. Either way, its the internet, man. I'll call a spade a spade, even if it offends your delicate sensibilities.

Anyway, thanks for the info. But quite seriously, you should probably reconsider some of your behaviors, hopefully you don't actually act this way in your "real" life....

 

[ActionableMango]

Macvidcards has spent a tremendous amount of work on getting PC cards to work in OS X. This has been a great benefit to a great many people with Mac Pros in particular.

Hundreds of times over the years people have asked how to do get a PC card working without even bothering to look at the many existing threads and resources. Many, many, times these people get direct and custom answers. What I have personally read over the years is that some of the experts get tired of being tier 1 support.

They are already doing so much for us by getting the damn stuff working in the first place, spending their own money on cards they have no idea will work or not, having to constantly backup and start over with a fresh OS, trying every new OS, trying every single update to an OS, each one of these on multiple cards over and over, writing programs to assist people, writing directions to assist people, writing drivers, modifying EFI, even doing hardware mods to cards.

So when, for the thousandth time, yet another person wants personal answers for their specific scenario, hasn't bothered to spend 5 minutes looking first, asking about a card that this thread isn't about, and then, WORST OF ALL, declaring that anything short of perfection "is NOT solution"... well, I for one can understand why Macvidcards got mad.

This thread has devolved into personal attacks of character, probably everyone involved would be better off just letting it go. There are no winners in an Internet argument.

 

[gpzjock]

Ok. Time out everybody... and breathe.

Normally folks arguing about arguing on a forum that is built for ... er.. arguing about Mac stuff is... well... exactly what the forum exists for.
This thread started out with a piece of news which is basically very good for the Mac Pro User community.
Somehow the subtle use of CAPITALS and short tempers has turned an otherwise good message about GFX card developments into a slanging match over temperament and expectations.

So I'm going to ask all the verbal combatants here to lay down their pitchforks and play nice please. I'm asking nicely folks so try to type it polite and mature like adults from now on, if you want to keep the respect of the community at large. If someone antagonizes you by being rude or stupid or lazy then the Thumper's Mum philosophy should be overriding all the hot headed fighting talk your testosterone is fueling.
"If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.".

Excellent news about the 6900 series btw MVCs. I sincerely wish all at netkas.org the very best in their research and discoveries, I await the next big breakthrough with interest.

 

[-hh]

Macvidcards has spent a tremendous amount of work on getting PC cards to work in OS X. This has been a great benefit to a great many people with Mac Pros in particular.

That very well may be true, but unfortunately, the content of the original post was very much like walking in to the middle of someone's conversation. Since this is just the "Mac Pro" forum and not the "Mac Pro Graphics Card Hacks" subforum, there were assumptions which created large contextual shortcomings that can pretty much predict that some percentage of readers were going to be immediately lost...

Hundreds of times over the years people have asked how to do get a PC card working without even bothering to look at the many existing threads and resources. Many, many, times these people get direct and custom answers. What I have personally read over the years is that some of the experts get tired of being tier 1 support.

Fair enough, and we all do get grumpy at times too. However, if one isn't going to be willing to follow-up with any amount of helpfulness, then it begs why then make the effort to initiate the thread in the first place? For someone cold coming in and reading ... and scrolling past four (yes, 4) "push back" responses before an IMO reasonable explanation was offered makes it unfortunately all too obvious that something basic was being overlooked upfront.

So when, for the thousandth time, yet another person wants personal answers for their specific scenario, hasn't bothered to spend 5 minutes looking first, asking about a card that this thread isn't about, and then, WORST OF ALL, declaring that anything short of perfection "is NOT solution"... well, I for one can understand why Macvidcards got mad.

Sorry, but we all have different levels of being users.

So while some of us may be quite willing to go jump through whatever sequence of flaming hoops to get a particular capability, that's not everybody...there's also others of us who surely would like more, but it comes with the caveat that the hassle factors also need to be pretty low. If this were in a specialized subforum, it would make sense to be a bit impatient or terse, but we're not so it doesn't.


- -

In any case, if I've read correctly, this new card (straight from the box) form running 10.8 has two shortcomings:

(a) No boot screens displayed
(b) Instability running iTunes

Next, a flash of the card can resolve (a), but it appears that (b) doesn't yet have a fix (but appears to be capable of being solved TBD soon).

- -
(56 word summary, BTW)

This thread has devolved into personal attacks of character, probably everyone involved would be better off just letting it go. There are no winners in an Internet argument.

True, although not initially. The lesson is that a very little additional effort upfront .. such as actually mentioning that iTunes bug .. probably would have averted a lot of the resulting confusion that stemmed from the diversity of MR readership community, where not everyone is a GPU hacker.

Quite frankly, the reason why I read this thread was because it appeared to be illustrating a new Mac Pro graphics card development within ML which could be foreshadowing a (hopefully soon) new Mac Pro hardware release.


-hh

 

[Garamond]

7970 still not going yet in 10.8

Damn. But do you think it will be implemented before 10.8 goes gold?

 

[jayhawk11]

This thread is a complete disaster.


Good tidbit about expanded support in 10.8 DP1, though. Hopefully it gets fleshed out more as we move closer to a GM and release.

 

[palmharbor]

All esoteric issues

I don't think anyone is complaining about this new capability of OSX. I think a few people were a little confused by the OP's few posts, asks some question, and the OP reacted poorly to them. Why get your panties in knot when someone unfamiliar with this kind of capability or is simply confused by word choices starts asking some questions? This is a forum to TALK right. The OP seems to think he's here to make some grand announcement and we're all just supposed to "get it" right off the bat.

To someone like me, who's happy to do anything short of recompiling the kernel, this was something I wasn't aware of. As such the OP's first few posts had me a little confused as well. A lot of people read these posts that have a large diversity of familiarity with computing. Plus, this is a computer forum, so its quite off-putting when someone behaves like the OP and essentially acts annoyed when asked to, you know, talk on a forum he posted to. But hey, I'm not trying to enforce some code of conduct here. I'm just saying my basic went something like this as reading down the post:

1) "Mac Pro's running 10.8 can use the better XXXX graphic cards, neat."
2) "Wait, not exactly, you need this EFI64 ROM and BIOS for the card too?"
3) "Oh ok, that doesn't sound too hard, I've done plenty of stuff similar to that. Anyway, too bad I don't care about GPUs"
4) "Jeez, this guy is kind of a DB."
5) "Wow, look at said DB blow up at the guy who asked the same questions I would have had I not being doing other things."

SNOW LEOPARD DOES NOT DO THE BASICS RIGHT. MOST USERS do not care about the esoteric issues 10.8 may deal with.
The calendar seems like a Microsoft App...
Apple Mail, killed bounce, uses icons in B & W and in the smallest fonts possible, does not delete a message easily.
Address book, does not permit color, tiny font is not adjustable
so get out your magnify glass.
I think the team who designed WIN 95 were hired to put Lion together. IT IS NOT INTUITIVE.

 

[Dzokayi]

Been a long time since I posted...

MacVidCards,

Thank you for the service you provide to this community. I don't tinker with hardware as much as I used to, so I enjoy the broad overview of the current state of video cards found here. Netkas is a bit bleeding edge for me now, so I hope you continue to post here.

Folks, seriously, expend a bit of effort and read the threads before demanding to be spoon-fed.

As a compromise, perhaps we can post the breaking news, and then provide a concise summary of exactly what behavior to expect with the various card / OS combinations. Would keep most people happy, I imagine.

[lurk]