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1080p Blu-ray isn’t dead
- Thread starter Macalicious2011
- Start date
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If you’re that bothered about waste I hope you don’t buy computers with soldered in ram, non-user replaceable batteries.But dude, it's last decades technology. IMO Blu Ray really filled the HD gap between 2007 - 2010. I truly can see why Steve Jobs discarded BluRay.
It also breaks my heart with all of the landfills spewing out plastic from old DVD BluRay players and DVD BluRay cases. All of that crap which some humans just 'have to buy'.
I put a disc on for the first time the other night whilst working and it seemed horrible hearing the disc spinning in the room. It just seemed so old fashioned. Plus the blurry cases look really really horrible in a house - they are not books!
It fits in with my environmental credentials that when I stream my iTunes film, it is powered by iCloud using 1005 renewables for which my TV is powered by my own solar panels
For me, going the streaming route from 2012 was the best video decision that I ever made.
Personally I can’t stand streaming and only use it for background noise rather than getting the full film treatment. I don’t buy many Blu-rays only the films I know I want.... as I understand many people just buy things they don’t entirely want, I’m more cautious. The image quality is outstanding on Blu-ray but where it shines for me is audio. There’s such a punch from an uncompressed soundtrack. I love it.
And it surely beats the cinema too as I find too many filmgoers are noisy these days.
What I don’t understand is why streaming and download services don’t offer Blu-ray quality options. I’ve got a fast connection so at least give us the option of a 50gb download. That’s all they need to do to compete.
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Indeed. I did enjoy 3D back in the day and I even got to direct one of the first 3DTV projects. I guess the problem was the glasses and drop in quality.
It says
Digital Intermediate (2K) (Master Format)
F65 Raw (4K) (Source Format)
Redcode Raw (5K) (Source Format)
What does that mean? To me, this reads like the movie was shot in 5K and/or 4K, and mastered to disc in 2K (1080p).
Whatever the master in 4k, they can chuck HDR on top of it. The genuine 4K masters are excellent as are the higher resolutions and HDR on a 2K master more than makes up for it, not forgetting the scans coming out now.
Found this handy to check what the masters are as well as the others, get a bit finicky chasing good uns down.
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=270798
Blade Runner in 4K is stunning (scanned from original film etc.). Planet Earth II is off this planet in quality so to speak, 5K involved in that I believe.
However, I keep the bluray player for the films/TV shows that are best seen in their full or I want full fat, see above.
Found this handy to check what the masters are as well as the others, get a bit finicky chasing good uns down.
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=270798
Blade Runner in 4K is stunning (scanned from original film etc.). Planet Earth II is off this planet in quality so to speak, 5K involved in that I believe.
However, I keep the bluray player for the films/TV shows that are best seen in their full or I want full fat, see above.
That's exactly what it means. Many movies are shot in 2.5k, 3.5k, or even higher, but they're then downscaled to 2K for editing, VFX, and grading. The original higher res source is long lost by the time the movie is ready.
But doesn't this also mean that when a movie is reissued on 4K BluRay, the original resolution material can be used for that? Surely they're not throwing away the full-res masters after a DVD or BluRay is issued?
That would require redoing the VFX, editing, and grading. As far as I that's never been done before.
Besides, if Hollywood are perfectly happy to release 2K movies into cinemas then they're not going to be bothered by tiny little TVs. I don't the vast majority of people could see the difference anyway.
Why not? AFAIK, T2 The Judgement Day was fully re-done for UHD - they had to rescan film and do the HDR grading.
Releasing a movie in HDR will almost definitely ask for a regrade, even if you are not interested in increasing the production workflow resolution. But just because of that - there is an opportunity.
T2 is so old it will not have a digital intermediate. The VFX will have been composited optically back onto actual film, which then went into old school physical editing. The first two Harry Potter movies were done this way, whereas the rest were all full digital at 2K.
This is the great irony of modern movie making. Old movies shot on actual film have much more resolution in them than modern movies with their 2K digital intermediates. They can therefore be scanned at 4K for UHD BD and have new HDR passes created for them.
There are some movies which use 4K DIs of course, such as Blade Runner 2049 and the recent Star Wars movies. They're the exception though.
I was in a supermarket today and they had a corner with discs on display - DVD, BluRay even one or two 4K BluRay at £25 each. I found the whole thing comical, old fashioned and if anything, tatty looking. It looked so out of place seeing plastic disc cases on display in 2018. Being honest, I was quite shocked, it was like a trip back to 1999
Later, I arrived home on my skateboard, opened up my lil chic MacBook, went to the iTunes store and voila, nearly every film I could imagine read to buy or rent or simply watch its trailer. All with a beautifully graphic designed interface. What a difference!
It shocks me some people in the UK (maybe traditionalists) still buy DVDs that do not even play at the correct speed!!! and have that horrible one second pause in them as it changes the layer! And don't even mention fingerprints :'(
Later, I arrived home on my skateboard, opened up my lil chic MacBook, went to the iTunes store and voila, nearly every film I could imagine read to buy or rent or simply watch its trailer. All with a beautifully graphic designed interface. What a difference!
It shocks me some people in the UK (maybe traditionalists) still buy DVDs that do not even play at the correct speed!!! and have that horrible one second pause in them as it changes the layer! And don't even mention fingerprints :'(
That's why i prefer Blue-ray disc as well. Audio is mostly compressed i think when streaming, so i think on psychical disc always gonna sound better. since streaming services wanna keep bandwidth averaged as well. Video isn't the only thing that takes up file size.
People like the choice, just like they just the choice of HD or SD. so why not have the same with audio as well ?
other times you may not have that choice depends what equipment your using. eg.. Dolby based movies will only be downmixed to stereo on a HD TV (AppleTV does that, or the TV) using internal speakers, yet it will be output as DTS when AppleTV is connected to a 5.1 surround sound.
I don't think this is how it was. I remember Silicon Graphics even use T2 in their marketing to brag about the VFX performed on them.
http://www.obsolyte.com/sgi_iris/
PS the UHD-scan and HDR release of T2 looks spectacular! Too bad he did not have time to remix audio into Atmos or DTS:X
I was in a supermarket today and they had a corner with discs on display - DVD, BluRay even one or two 4K BluRay at £25 each. I found the whole thing comical, old fashioned and if anything, tatty looking. It looked so out of place seeing plastic disc cases on display in 2018. Being honest, I was quite shocked, it was like a trip back to 1999
Later, I arrived home on my skateboard, opened up my lil chic MacBook, went to the iTunes store and voila, nearly every film I could imagine read to buy or rent or simply watch its trailer. All with a beautifully graphic designed interface. What a difference!
It shocks me some people in the UK (maybe traditionalists) still buy DVDs that do not even play at the correct speed!!! and have that horrible one second pause in them as it changes the layer! And don't even mention fingerprints :'(
Supermarket DVD displays have been shocking for a number of years now. The choice is also very small. However, if you want the best picture and best sound then a physical disc cannot be bettered. If you are happy to settle for 2nd best then itunes downloads are the way to go.
I've been on a bit of a 4K DVD buying spree lately and each of them come with a digital download code so you end up with the best of both worlds. Physical disc for the best home movie experience, and digital code for sticking the film onto the iPad when travelling.
That's the thing - picture wise, I really don't believe that iTunes is second best. Also don't forget that most of the world doesn't spend £3K upwards on a OLED 65" TV were you may notice a difference if you do a A to B comparison. Looking at basic LG 4K TVs etc on sale, I doubt very much that these sub £1K TVs would highlight any difference between a 4K iTunes film and a 4K BluRay - mind you no films of my choice are on 4K BluRay.
Most of the time, I'll watch a bit of a film on my MacBook. Sadly, I've a 5 minute attention span for TV before I need to be outdoors doing something
Fact. On a large screen Blu-ray 1080p looks better than AppleTV 4K movie. UHD on a big screen is glorious. Tried ATV 4K so I didn’t have to get up and change the disc, but it’s just not there yet. Plex rips look pretty good, but nothing beats physical media right now.
Considering Kalaidescape. I’m told it’s the only thing equal to physical media, but it costs a hell a lot of money.
On a sub 50” TV it’s fine, but the step in picture quality is still obvious.
Now if we can just get Disney to take the Star Wars prequels and run them through modern cgi to get rid of the cartoon look to everything... ugh. Totally unwatchable on disc or other, nevermidn they suck. But still.
Oh and Dolby Atmos and DTS:X. At least try Apple...
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Unwatchable on a larger screen.
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My kids will be watching by Blu-ray collection long after I’m gone. They’ll also be watching my iTunes collection... oh wait...
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Have to agree with this. If someone wants to see the difference, pop in a Disney flick and just watch the Disney trailer with the castle. It’s even obvious on a small screen. The castle pops on BD. Not so much streaming.
Considering Kalaidescape. I’m told it’s the only thing equal to physical media, but it costs a hell a lot of money.
On a sub 50” TV it’s fine, but the step in picture quality is still obvious.
Now if we can just get Disney to take the Star Wars prequels and run them through modern cgi to get rid of the cartoon look to everything... ugh. Totally unwatchable on disc or other, nevermidn they suck. But still.
Oh and Dolby Atmos and DTS:X. At least try Apple...
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Unwatchable on a larger screen.
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But dude, it's last decades technology. IMO Blu Ray really filled the HD gap between 2007 - 2010. I truly can see why Steve Jobs discarded BluRay.
It also breaks my heart with all of the landfills spewing out plastic from old DVD BluRay players and DVD BluRay cases. All of that crap which some humans just 'have to buy'.
I put a disc on for the first time the other night whilst working and it seemed horrible hearing the disc spinning in the room. It just seemed so old fashioned. Plus the blurry cases look really really horrible in a house - they are not books!
It fits in with my environmental credentials that when I stream my iTunes film, it is powered by iCloud using 1005 renewables for which my TV is powered by my own solar panels
For me, going the streaming route from 2012 was the best video decision that I ever made.
My kids will be watching by Blu-ray collection long after I’m gone. They’ll also be watching my iTunes collection... oh wait...
[doublepost=1517924081][/doublepost]
Have to agree with this. If someone wants to see the difference, pop in a Disney flick and just watch the Disney trailer with the castle. It’s even obvious on a small screen. The castle pops on BD. Not so much streaming.
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IME sound is what gave the biggest leap from jumping from compressed DVD to gorgeous Blue Ray. From a distance I can happily watch a badly compressed aka streaming movie but sound you can tell the difference no matter what.
However I suspect all these streaming services.... all this “rent stuff instead of buying because we want to pay more in the end as we fall for marketing” hoohaw that sucks in people.... I don’t think they care for quality. I think they’re watching movies in teeny tiny phone screens instead of TVs.
Oh come on! When you were their age weren't you watching analogue TV on a 21" TV from a VHS recorder in hissy mono sound?
Seriously, please don't talk about quality today. We've never had it so good! iTunes 4K Dolby Vision now compared to DVD 10 years ago, VHS on mono CRT TVs 20 years ago! Seriously!
I also buy favourite films and own certain ones on VHS then DVD then DVD again as it got scratched then BLURAY (but the seller sold me a rip off pirate one which ruined it for me) and then iTunes HD.
I think young people DO care about quality, it's just that they have better things to do with their lives than to watch TV and films on a TV. They are the generation that travel more, spend their money on experiences and are not buying TVs, BluRay etc - it's a different generation - they've been born into the iPhone, MacBook, iPad life - everything is there on one device. How stress free - compare that to a separate TV, Disc player, coffin like speakers in an old room? No thank you!
I watch a HD film on my iPhone X whilst travelling and my God, the picture quality is outstanding!
That's the thing - picture wise, I really don't believe that iTunes is second best. Also don't forget that most of the world doesn't spend £3K upwards on a OLED 65" TV were you may notice a difference if you do a A to B comparison. Looking at basic LG 4K TVs etc on sale, I doubt very much that these sub £1K TVs would highlight any difference between a 4K iTunes film and a 4K BluRay - mind you no films of my choice are on 4K BluRay.
Most of the time, I'll watch a bit of a film on my MacBook. Sadly, I've a 5 minute attention span for TV before I need to be outdoors doing something
A good 4K bluray will destroy iTunes on every front. An iTunes 4K stream will top out at around 28mbit. A 4K bluray can hit 110mbit. On the audio front you have 1.5mbit Dolby Digital Plus on iTunes vs 18mbit Dolby True HD on the 4K disc.
That said, with so many movies using 2K digital intermediates a lot of the benefits of 4K BD's bitrate are lost in the blur.
It depends. The world has changed. Its always changing and you have to adapt or you become stale. People travel more (they see the world, their minds become open, they spend more time getting an education & doing things and spend less time watching TV (outside of the US). Like me, I can't put a disc in my iPhone X, or watch it on my chic MacBook in bed on a Saturday morning with an espresso. In fact, a disc case is larger than my iPhone X which stores 50+ HD films
Having a old box that really hasn't changed in looks since a 1983 CD player in a room that plays a certain disc to me is pure crazy. It's like how music travels with you and adapts to your lifestyle. I remember in the olden days when a person would put a record on their HiFi and then sit down in a chair to listen to it. How crazy is that??? A bit sad isn't it? Whilst the world evolves
I completed a bachelors degree and a graduate diploma, went on my OE and I’m into HiFi and home cinema. They aren’t mutually exclusive. As for that “old box that really hasn’t changed in looks since a 1983CD player”, I don’t care as I’m not looking at it, I’m too busy looking at and listening to the superior AV quality that it affords over all other formats including streaming.
Not sure why you think valuing high fidelity audio is “a bit sad”. People have different hobbies.
I'd say picture wise that 1. 4K DV iTunes is FAR better than the same film from a Blu-Ray. 2. An iTunes file of Meet Joe Black that I have is FAR FAR FAR superior to an old disc that I own - when compared, the old disc had been so poorly mastered that Brad Pitts skin was the orange colour of Trump. The iTunes copy that I bought in 2012 was natural! 3. The iTunes files are constantly updated. 4. I can download the file to my iPhone X to watch in Dolby Vision HD on the Eurostar, stream from the iCloud the film from my MacBook therefore taking up zero storage space and watch it in glorious 4K DV on my ATV.
Crazy to think that you think that your old disc with older technology is better than newer technology with better quality
4K DV iTunes is not far better quality than Blu Ray. For one, BluRay supports the likes of DTS-HD Master Audio at up to 24 mbps vs iTunes with Dolby Digital Plus at about 1.5 mbps. If you care about a high fidelity experience, iTunes just doesn’t compare.
The other problem is that while 4K has many more pixels, it loses quality from dithering due to the high compression of iTunes. That compression is to lower the file sizes of the 4K iTunes movies (15 gig) vs about 50 gig for Blu Ray and 100 gig for UHD Blu Ray. The compression uses an effect called dithering - it’s when there’s two similar coloured pixels right next to each other, one of them is changed to be the same colour as the one next to it. Doing this means less data is used and the more agressive the compression the more pixels are replaced with identical colours. Ever noticed on an iTunes or Netflix film in a very dark scene, it’s really blocky? That’s dithering at work and too many of the pixels have been replaced with the same dark colour. So that’s extreme dithering but every frame of a streamed film has dithering. You are losing detail and contrast. That’s why people say 1080p Blu Ray still looks superior to 4K iTunes. Yeah there’s more pixels but who cares when so many of those close proximity pixels are displaying identical colours to save data for streaming? It seems your “young, healthy eyes” aren’t as good as you thought they were.
That “old disc with older technology” isn’t so old. That Dolby Digital codec that iTunes is using is over 20 years old...iTunes is using really old tech. Those Dolby Atmos and DTS:X codecs on the Blu Ray and UHD Blu Ray are far newer and better. UHD Blu Ray still has the latest technology that iTunes has such Dolby Vision and HDR 10.
I was in a supermarket today and they had a corner with discs on display - DVD, BluRay even one or two 4K BluRay at £25 each. I found the whole thing comical, old fashioned and if anything, tatty looking. It looked so out of place seeing plastic disc cases on display in 2018. Being honest, I was quite shocked, it was like a trip back to 1999
Later, I arrived home on my skateboard, opened up my lil chic MacBook, went to the iTunes store and voila, nearly every film I could imagine read to buy or rent or simply watch its trailer. All with a beautifully graphic designed interface. What a difference!
It shocks me some people in the UK (maybe traditionalists) still buy DVDs that do not even play at the correct speed!!! and have that horrible one second pause in them as it changes the layer! And don't even mention fingerprints :'(
So what if you think the sight of some Blu Ray discs is comical to you. Some people are proper videophiles and prefer to have the highest quality possible, which iTunes just doesn’t offer.
People are allowed to prefer a less convenient disc-based format in the pursuit of quality, just as you are entitled to prefer the more convenient streaming format. Streaming is still pretty damn good quality and I use both formats depending on the situation. Streaming is obviously the future but if you want to experience the best quality home cinema experience today, then BluRay is the only way to go.
I’m fairly young. I went to university, went travelling and started my career working for a (shock, horror!) streaming company and work with various AV partners. Young people usually aren’t buying this stuff simply because they can’t afford it. People older than myself tell me how in the 80’s and 90’s after getting their first real job, they would purchase a hi fi system. They tell me that that was what you would spend your hard earned cash on because there weren’t as many options like there are now. Young people have a lot more choice. Instead of spending their pay checks on a hifi system, they’re spending thousands of dollars to purchase that iPhone X and that “chic MacBook”. That’s where you’ve decided to put your limited resources. As people progress in their career, they start earning more money and can afford nice things like a bigger TV and a dedicated home theatre system. I myself used a trusty laptop as my sole source of media entertainment (as well as an iPod for music) until I was 25, when I purchased my first tv - a 32 inch. Now I own a 50 inch TV as well. I also have a Sonos Playbar, Sub and a couple of other Sonos speakers. I’ve progressed from only listening to an iPod through headphones to being able to stream music around my house. Purchasing this stuff didn’t stop me from travelling to Thailand, Vietnam and Singapore last year. Experience and hobbies aren’t mutually exclusive. My appreciation for video and audio has grown and I will likely build my home theatre by investing in a larger 65 inch 4K OLED and a Dolby Atmos/DTS-HD 7.1 setup. I’ve decided to do this by keeping my iPhone 6s rather than upgrading to iPhone X and replacing my MacBook Pro with one of the new “chic” models. I imagine those “crazy” people buying large TV’s and Blu Ray players have different values than you do. They choose to spend their funds on those types of items as opposed to updating to the latest iPhone and MacBook.
I’ve also noticed a theme - you prefer to watch movies on iPhones and MacBooks. With the tiny screens and tiny speakers, you probably can’t discern the difference between iTunes and Blu Ray. With those devices, iTunes will be the most appropriate tool for the job. The Blu Ray player is the most appropriate tool for the cinemaphile who has a quality 7.1 setup.
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Neither do they own a home to put it in.
Coming out of university, a qualified job and mortgage isn't guaranteed like it was 20 years ago. Up until 2016 I lived in London for 8 years. The only people I knew under the age of 40 who had owned their own place were engaged or married couples. Everyone else were renting a room or flat sharing.
Without the stability of your own home you are not going to invest in expensive AV equipment that you might not have space for if you move to another flat share. Furthermore can you even make the most of such equipment if the lounge/ living room is communal? Unlikely.
This is why wireless Bluetooth speakers have become the new boom box and the HomePod is a reincarnation of the Apple HiFi but easier to fit into people's lifestyle.
The sound quality of blu-ray and 4K blu-ray shouldn't be underestimated. Anyone with a good home cinema setup will be able to hear the difference immediately. Compressed audio, as on iTunes, Netflix, Amazon etc is fine, but it doesn't sound real. A good TrueHD or DTS HD soundtrack through good speakers sounds like the orchestra or sound effects are in the room with you.
I was in a supermarket today and they had a corner with discs on display - DVD, BluRay even one or two 4K BluRay at £25 each. I found the whole thing comical, old fashioned and if anything, tatty looking. It looked so out of place seeing plastic disc cases on display in 2018. Being honest, I was quite shocked, it was like a trip back to 1999
Later, I arrived home on my skateboard, opened up my lil chic MacBook, went to the iTunes store and voila, nearly every film I could imagine read to buy or rent or simply watch its trailer. All with a beautifully graphic designed interface. What a difference!
It shocks me some people in the UK (maybe traditionalists) still buy DVDs that do not even play at the correct speed!!! and have that horrible one second pause in them as it changes the layer! And don't even mention fingerprints :'(
First, Blu-Rays did not come out until a few years later, sorry. As far as your second comment, if anything (chic MacBook aside), your impression of disks seems to indicate that you are the one stuck in the past.
For the streaming crowd, the convenience to be able to stream a movie to your device is undeniable, but to compare that to the benefits a Blu-Ray disk offers is not a fair comparison. The sound quality of a Blu-Ray cannot be matched by streaming. I can understand if audio quality is not your main concern, but still an unfair comparison. If your main concern with Blu-Rays is environmental waste, sound quality is probably not too high on your list of requirements.
I enjoy a Blu-Ray disk and see it as an alternative to going to the movies. I specifically invested in a high quality home theater system in order to immerse myself in a movie. I don't have to deal with people texting, making noise, or crunching their pop corn while I am watching a movie. The cost of a Blu-Ray is the equivalent of going to the movies with my wife, and we can watch it again any time we choose. Best part is we can still go to the movies if we want.
I like to have Blu-Rays on hand if it is a blockbuster type movie. The audio options on Blu-Ray cannot be matched by streaming and make the movie so much more enjoyable. The audio options provided by Blu-Ray disks are far superior to any streamed movie. Having a 80" TV also helps.
If you have never watched a movie with lossless audio, using multiple channels and DTS-HD High Resolution Audio, DTS-HD Master Audio, or Dolby TrueHD (found on Blu-Rays disks) you are not going to know what I am talking about.
Also, If you have a quality player you are not going to hear the spinning disk, have any lag, or pauses. Your chic MacBook cannot compare to the quality of sound coming from this:
https://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-udp-205/
Not to mention many Blu-Rays are released with a digital copy. That way I can also stream the movie on other devices if I choose. I feel people here are comparing apples and oranges.
Finally, I do not display my disks as novels. They are stored away until I want to view one. Clean and tidy. But to be fair some movies I only stream. It really comes down to a person's needs and their preferred method of enjoying entertainment.
This also does not mean I don't invest in current technology. I have several iPhones, MacBooks, iPads, and desktops, and regularly stream media, create music, and manage a website. I have a vast music library on my home NAS, I use Plex to serve content to my devices, and can stream my content remotely to any device, anywhere I choose.
Best part is I can watch a movie and still get outdoors like you mentioned. We mountain bike, hike, and kayak just about every weekend. As well as enjoying a movie at home. I'm in my 50's but still manage to get down to my local skate park and pull off a few old school grinds on the half pipe every now and then. The young kids who think they have it all figured out look at me like I'm an alien. Kind of amusing.
There really is more than one way to look at something.
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