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It's from 1080p does matter, by Carlton Bale. The author makes a pretty good argument to support his conclusion: "I want to set the record straight once and for all: if you are serious about properly setting up your viewing room, you will definitely benefit from 1080p."

That's very interesting. Pity it stops at 120", but I guess I can always extrapolate since they're linear progressions. I am in the "unfortunate" predicament of having a 1080p 46" LCD and a 720p projector (18' approx) in my living room, so I'm constantly having to decide whether resolution or picture size suits what I'm watching most. I know, I know, there are worse dilemmas life can throw at you... :D
 
This reminds me of what the camera industry is doing in convincing people that they need a lot of megapixels to take good photos. I used to work in a retailer that sold cameras along with other audio and TV appliances, and the amount of ignorant customers who would come in and tell me I was talking rubbish because I told them that having an 8 megapixel camera is useless to them for what they want it for.

I ended up pulling out six A4 printouts, each taken with: 800k, 1 megapixel, 2, 4, 6, 8. Each printout was the same photo, and a high quality photo printer was used.

And they could barely even tell the difference between 800k and 1 megapixel, let alone anything in 8 megapixels.

They were only going to be printing off 6x4" photos, yet demanded such high megapixels.

1080p this, 1080p that. As said already, unless you have the optimum setup, then you are hardly going to notice any difference between 720p and 1080p.
 
Well this thread is interesting, but besides debating the finer points of someone's charting ability, how do people who actually have ATV feel and a larger screen [say 46 inch and above] HDTV feel about the image quality? Would you slip in a dvd if you had it or watch on ATV:confused:?

I watch my ATV over a 50" Panasonic Plasma. It looks absolutely gorgeous. Now, since most of my content gets imported from DVDs, obviously a DVD would have slightly higher quality... but the ATV menu and the ability to have hundreds of movies (not to mention TV shows, YouTube, Podcasts, etc.) right at my finger tips makes it worth while.

I use the ATV preset in Handbrake. I think most people would struggle to see a difference between my files and a DVD. The ATV does not disappoint. However, if you are buying all of your SD content over the iTunes store... you will notice a decent amount of difference between that and DVD. It was formatted to play on an iPod, so it won't be nearly as clear as a full DVD source. The iTunes HD content is good though.



Take it easy, seriously. You're going to hurt yourself

I was accused of plagiarizing and 'spreading false information.' Since they tried to make me look like a fool, I felt it necessary to return the favor. It was quite easy since the truth was on my side the whole time.

Sorry if I got a little riled up. Just don't like it when people get on here and spout pure nonsense in attempt to make someone look bad... especially when they have nothing backing up their argument.
 
That's very interesting. Pity it stops at 120", but I guess I can always extrapolate since they're linear progressions. I am in the "unfortunate" predicament of having a 1080p 46" LCD and a 720p projector (18' approx) in my living room, so I'm constantly having to decide whether resolution or picture size suits what I'm watching most. I know, I know, there are worse dilemmas life can throw at you... :D

Poor guy. ;)



This reminds me of what the camera industry is doing in convincing people that they need a lot of megapixels to take good photos. I used to work in a retailer that sold cameras along with other audio and TV appliances, and the amount of ignorant customers who would come in and tell me I was talking rubbish because I told them that having an 8 megapixel camera is useless to them for what they want it for.

I ended up pulling out six A4 printouts, each taken with: 800k, 1 megapixel, 2, 4, 6, 8. Each printout was the same photo, and a high quality photo printer was used.

And they could barely even tell the difference between 800k and 1 megapixel, let alone anything in 8 megapixels.

They were only going to be printing off 6x4" photos, yet demanded such high megapixels.

1080p this, 1080p that. As said already, unless you have the optimum setup, then you are hardly going to notice any difference between 720p and 1080p.

Exactly. I made the same point in the other thread, here.
 
Well this thread is interesting, but besides debating the finer points of someone's charting ability, how do people who actually have ATV feel and a larger screen [say 46 inch and above] HDTV feel about the image quality? Would you slip in a dvd if you had it or watch on ATV:confused:?

I have a 57" Samsung HDTV 1080p and cannot see any meaningful difference between a DVD and a Handbrake-encoded, Two-pass, AppleTV preset encode.

My optical media is growing mold.
 
The Apple tv might get a hardware upgrade with Atom at the event next month or at MWSF 2009. MWSF 2009 seems more likely because there are a lot of products rumored for at or near the September event. I'd say 1080p support will come at that time too, either new Apple tv-only (if it's hardware limited) or as a software upgrade (if it's software limited).

I would also expect a slight redesign of the Apple tv to match the new designs from Apple.
 
As said already, unless you have the optimum setup, then you are hardly going to notice any difference between 720p and 1080p.

And my question is "Why wouldn't you try to have the optimum setup?" It's a question of a handful of factors easily within your control: TV size, resolution, and placement. The rest of the analysis that accompanied the chart explains that if you want to sit at the "optimum" distance, you'll benefit from 1080p. And it makes it pretty easy to match up the parameters.

I just don't see why bringing up 1080p gives rise to the argument "Since I'm happy with my nonoptimal setup, most people don't and shouldn't care about optimizing their setup. 720p ought to be enough for anyone."

Analogy: Let's say you just browse the web. Then, an 8-core Mac Pro with dual 30" Cinema Displays is overkill and a waste of money. That says nothing to denigrate the value of either of them. It just says your values and needs suggest you should get an iMac.

Analogy 2: Let's say someone (i.e. me) comes in wanting to print 8x10"s on a 200 lpi printer. You'd be doing me a disservice to say that that I'd be fine with a 3 MP camera. And what if I want to crop my photos because I didn't have enough zoom to fill the frame with my subject? I'm going to need a sensor with sufficient resolution to do what I want it to do. (Even we scale back to the layman, you're going to have a hard time convincing me that 100 dpi (A4 at 1 MP) is sufficient for printing a high-quality image. That's approaching screen resolution.)

Now, of course, there's the issue of effective resolution and that jamming more pixels onto a tiny sensor doesn't do you any good. The point is, these are all considerations to make with access to the right information. I'll try to optimize my camera for my photography needs, just like I'd do with a TV.

But 1080p is not the equivalent of a 1/2.3", 12.1 MP sensor being used to print 4"x6" photos. The crimes of the digital photography industry are far worse.

I was accused of plagiarizing and 'spreading false information.' Since they tried to make me look like a fool, I felt it necessary to return the favor. It was quite easy since the truth was on my side the whole time.

Sorry if I got a little riled up. Just don't like it when people get on here and spout pure nonsense in attempt to make someone look bad... especially when they have nothing backing up their argument.

No, taking it easy is absolutely right. I (and presumably others) didn't set out to make you look like a fool. I just said what was on my mind at the time, in addition to disputing your assumptions. It's nothing personal. I'm just some guy on the internet who throws words around.
 
I have a 57" Samsung HDTV 1080p and cannot see any meaningful difference between a DVD and a Handbrake-encoded, Two-pass, AppleTV preset encode.

Since you said DVD, I'm going to assume you're talking about a DVD and not, say, Blu-ray. Of course you can't see the difference. A DVD is NTSC resolution. It's being unconverted to 1080p. By the time it goes through all that conversion, it doesn't matter if you started with a DVD or handbrake. Garbage in, garbage out.
 
And my question is "Why wouldn't you try to have the optimum setup?" It's a question of a handful of factors easily within your control: TV size, resolution, and placement. The rest of the analysis that accompanied the chart explains that if you want to sit at the "optimum" distance, you'll benefit from 1080p. And it makes it pretty easy to match up the parameters.

I just don't see why bringing up 1080p gives rise to the argument "Since I'm happy with my nonoptimal setup, most people don't and shouldn't care about optimizing their setup. 720p ought to be enough for anyone."

The problem with your argument is that "optimal setup" is referring to a ultra super sweet theatre setup. Most people don't want that kind of experience when they're in their basic living room. Heck, many people think any TV larger than 42" is an eye-sore.

Would you buy a $3000 mountain bike to ride to the grocery store every day? No, because you would never utilize its abilities.

Would you buy a $300k house for your dog? No, because it would be just as happy in a small kennel.

Would you spend $2000 on a new Nikon 12mp camera with expensive lenses if you never print photos over a 4x6? No, because at that size, 2MP looks exactly like 12.

The fact of the matter is that most people, with normal TV setups will never see any benefit from higher resolutions. Not everybody is building home theaters... in fact, an extremely few are. I don't understand why this is so hard for people to 'get'.
 
Or would you buy an "8-core Mac Pro with dual 30" Cinema Display" to browse the internet... So we're on the same page there. Thanks for adding additional examples.

Our only dispute, what "most" people think, is a circular argument. I don't have any data on most people. You don't have any data on most people. The argument is a wash. We could go back and forth with "Nah uh" "Yeah huh" all day long.

Not that the value of 1080p ever had anything to do with the original question: Will we see 1080p this year? Inquiring minds would like to know.
 
okay, time for a newb question. Is it just upconverting when I choose the 1080p option with my apple TV?
 
If you want the truth, I'd rather have more fps (60) than 1080p (I'm talking in general here, not just the Apple TV).

More detail is great, but unless it is silky smooth, then I'd much rather have something lower resolution that is actually smooth when played.
 
Nobody's disputing the chart, as far as I know. I'm disputing that the assumption that 90% and/or 99% of the population sits outside of the 1080p range.

I would say it's between 90-95%. Most people I know who have a 1080p set think that my 720p Samsung is a 1080p version. There's not that many people who can actually tell the difference from a reasonable viewing distance. My 40" set is above the fireplace anywhere from 12-18' to the seats. I can see everything just fine. It looks the same as my friends 52" 1080p which is essentially the same viewing distance/angles.

People just buy into the sales hype and think the have to get the higher resolution to keep up with their buddies. I can tell the difference between the resolutions when I get within 8-10 feet, but there's no way I'm sitting that close to my set.
 
Since you said DVD, I'm going to assume you're talking about a DVD and not, say, Blu-ray. Of course you can't see the difference. A DVD is NTSC resolution. It's being unconverted to 1080p. By the time it goes through all that conversion, it doesn't matter if you started with a DVD or handbrake. Garbage in, garbage out.

It would help if you read the original question before responding --

Originally Posted by Wakakanada
Well this thread is interesting, but besides debating the finer points of someone's charting ability, how do people who actually have ATV feel and a larger screen [say 46 inch and above] HDTV feel about the image quality? Would you slip in a dvd if you had it or watch on ATV?

DVD. Assume what you like, but read before you respond. This poster was curious about whether the Apple TV performed as well as a DVD player on a larger TV.

He didn't ask if Blu-Ray was better than cream cheese.
 
All your points that 720p looks the same as 1080p are all moot since Apple's 720p is not full 720p. Full 720p does look the same on a regular TV (50") but 1080p sure as hell looks better on my projector. Have you ever seen the Apple HD files? Blu-Ray smacks them left and right when it comes to picture quality. And sorry, not everyone who uses a projector needs a showroom... :rolleyes:
 
Gotta love the BS. WOW!

I have 1080p content
I have atv
I have a 1080p TV

(I use HDMI - reguired for the tv to except 1080p? HDCP?)



Can this be viewed using atv in it's original resolution?

Screw the viewing distance and if my bionic eye is focused properly. Can this be done? Is so I do not know how? Please explain.
 
Apple TV won't be able to play 1080p content.

You can select 1080p as the output resolution, but the quality has to be 720p.
 
I have 1080p content
I have atv
I have a 1080p TV

(I use HDMI - reguired for the tv to except 1080p? HDCP?)



Can this be viewed using atv in it's original resolution?

Screw the viewing distance and if my bionic eye is focused properly. Can this be done? Is so I do not know how? Please explain.

No.

"Video formats supported:
H.264 and protected H.264 (from iTunes Store): Up to 5 Mbps, Progressive Main Profile (CAVLC) with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps (maximum resolution: 1280 by 720 pixels at 24 fps, 960 by 540 pixels at 30 fps) in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats"
 
Glad to see this thread still going.:rolleyes:

I'm not sure why Apple hasn't gone to 1080p quite yet. Maybe they're waiting to update all the products at once, or at least start the trickle down effect. There's probably good reasons on their part, but they haven't done a great job of explaining themselves. I hope it's coming soon. Maybe the fact that they've been so mum on the project means it's right around the corner. Who knows?

And for anyone reading this thread that's trying to decide between 1080p and 720p, I feel for you. There's a lot of "opinions" here and you know what they say about opinions, "everyone has them and most of them stink." Stick to what your eyes and guts tell you. Don't go by "most people," decide for yourself what looks best and fits your budget.:)
 
And for anyone reading this thread that's trying to decide between 1080p and 720p, I feel for you. There's a lot of "opinions" here and you know what they say about opinions, "everyone has them and most of them stink." Stick to what your eyes and guts tell you. Don't go by "most people," decide for yourself what looks best and fits your budget.:)

Now that is a statement I can agree with! Good advice to all. Here is what I said on the first page:

Don't take my word for it folks... go to your local best buy or whatever store you want. Find two identical TVS (same base model) with the only difference being resolution. Start 20 ft from the TV, and walk forward until you can see a difference. On a normal 50" TV, most won't see a difference until about 6 or 7ft. Much closer than the normal person sits from a 50" set.
 
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