1st Mac maybe last

[tshrimp]

I need someone to talk me down. I just purchased my new Mac Mini Mid 2011.

Issues so far:

1) Was told 2GB of RAM was like 4GB on a PC....Wrong. If anything it was like 1GB on a PC and not 4GB. I upgraded to 8GB for only $40, so not that big of a deal as it was easy to install.

2) Was told iTunes works so much better on a Mac (I hated it on the PC). Found out it is just as bad. Had an issue with Home Sharing and called tech support (the tech support that is suppose to be top notch) and the 1st guy I got didn't know what Home Sharing was. I was transferred to a person who was more helpful, but he had never owned a Mac before. I was told that this issue has never shown up before and was sorry they couldn't help me and would close the case. (Close the case????? how about fix it).

3) And the most annoying thing so far.....Where is my restore disk? I know I can restore over the web, but I am use to a 15-17 min reinstall when using Windows 7. Now I have to download almost 4Gb when I replace my drive with an SSD or upgrade to a faster drive. If someone has a pointer on how to make my own restore via USB Memory stick I am all ears.

With that said.....I love my new Mac. It is better than I would have thought it would be, and hope to be able to keep on with Apple, but if Mountain Lion does not allow me to create a USB restore then I am done with Mac.

Please someone set me straight before I adopt Windows 8.

 

[simsaladimbamba]

1) Who told you that? Lion is RAM hungry.
2) Don't know about that, but iTunes became quite a resource hog (thus slower) a couple of years ago.
3) OS X Lion: About Lion Recovery + Lion Recovery Disk Assistant

To learn more about Mac OS X: Helpful Information for Any Mac User by GGJstudios​

 

[fa8362]

I need someone to talk me down. I just purchased my new Mac Mini Mid 2011.

Issues so far:

1) Was told 2GB of RAM was like 4GB on a PC....Wrong. If anything it was like 1GB on a PC and not 4GB. I upgraded to 8GB for only $40, so not that big of a deal as it was easy to install.

2) Was told iTunes works so much better on a Mac (I hated it on the PC). Found out it is just as bad. Had an issue with Home Sharing and called tech support (the tech support that is suppose to be top notch) and the 1st guy I got didn't know what Home Sharing was. I was transferred to a person who was more helpful, but he had never owned a Mac before. I was told that this issue has never shown up before and was sorry they couldn't help me and would close the case. (Close the case????? how about fix it).

3) And the most annoying thing so far.....Where is my restore disk? I know I can restore over the web, but I am use to a 15-17 min reinstall when using Windows 7. Now I have to download almost 4Gb when I replace my drive with an SSD or upgrade to a faster drive. If someone has a pointer on how to make my own restore via USB Memory stick I am all ears.

With that said.....I love my new Mac. It is better than I would have thought it would be, and hope to be able to keep on with Apple, but if Mountain Lion does not allow me to create a USB restore then I am done with Mac.

Please someone set me straight before I adopt Windows 8.

Sorry, but in my opinion, you shouldn't blame your own ignorance on the Mac. You should have known or checked about the RAM, restore, iTunes, etc. In other words, know what you're buying or using and don't blame other people or the computer for your lack of knowledge.

 

[jkeekij]

I find it really hard to believe that someone in iTunes tech support doesn't know what Home Sharing is.

 

[Poki]

Okay, so lets start:

1) The RAM-management on OSX IS better than on Windows. It's just that Lion needs more RAM than previous operating systems, so yes, you NEED 4 GB of RAM. That's why Apple made it so easy to swap it.

2) iTunes works fine on a PC and even a bit better and faster on a Mac. All errors I encountered so far (most of my friends hate iTunes 'cos of these "issues") were user fails. Okay, the telephone support for iTunes may not be the best, but the issue is 100% not a iTunes bug.

3) You CAN make a USB restore disk - just google for it. But honestly, why complain about the future? Internet gets faster, and for a 4 GB download you should't need longer than 30 minutes. That's just about the time a average guy needs to find his restore disk.

Yeah, you're a bit ignorant (no offense intended). You could've informed about all these things even on apples own website or the apple support community. Why blame the Mac Mini for your ignorance?

 

[MonkeySee....]

iTunes is better on a Mac. Its quicker and works very well. I never touched it on my windows machine. Now all my videos go through it.

You can always make an appointment at the Apple store for a one on one with iTunes. Or you can tells us what wrong. I use homesharing and have zero issue with it.

 

[tshrimp]

Sorry, but in my opinion, you shouldn't blame your own ignorance on the Mac. You should have known or checked about the RAM, restore, iTunes, etc. In other words, know what you're buying or using and don't blame other people or the computer for your lack of knowledge.

I am not blaming anyone. The info I posted was from doing research. Every post I made asking about about RAM, iTunes, restore etc. as well as talking with people at work and at the Apple store mentioned that Less Ram was needed, iTunes stinks on Windows but is great on Mac, and that Macs come with recovery disks.

Your post also moves me away from Apple as I make a post and am called ignorant.

 

[fa8362]

I am not blaming anyone. The info I posted was from doing research. Every post I made asking about about RAM, iTunes, restore etc. as well as talking with people at work and at the Apple store mentioned that Less Ram was needed, iTunes stinks on Windows but is great on Mac, and that Macs come with recovery disks.

Your post also moves me away from Apple as I make a post and am called ignorant.

Sorry, but you are ignorant about your Mac.

Seriously, who would believe that less RAM is better than more? Also, who would believe that a Mac without an optical disc drive would come with recovery discs?

 

[Poki]

I am not blaming anyone. The info I posted was from doing research. Every post I made asking about about RAM, iTunes, restore etc. as well as talking with people at work and at the Apple store mentioned that Less Ram was needed, iTunes stinks on Windows but is great on Mac, and that Macs come with recovery disks.

Your post also moves me away from Apple as I make a post and am called ignorant.

Macs are used to come with restore disks, but that's no longer needed. iTunes is faster on a Mac, but there are the same "problems" - if you don't have well sorted ID3-tags and if you don't know how functions like home sharing exactly work, it's not iTunes' fault. For the iTunes-problem: just ask somewhere here in the forum, somebody can help you for sure.

And like I said Macs used to need less RAM, Lion changed that. But it was a worthy change - you got Auto Save, Resume, Mission Control, etc.

 

[SvP]

It sounds like you got your hopes up high, way high.

"Someone" told you wrong about the RAM. He's an ass. I do know what he meant tho (RAM works more efficiently in macs) but i think windows got better and lion got more hungry, thus minimizing the difference.
Salespeople sell. Their main goal is getting your money. Do not trust!

About lion: you got some links, that'll help you out.
PS: get a HDD and turn on Time Machine, asap.

Mac's are a different breed. Give it a chance to grow on you, in a few weeks, you will think different(ly) ;-)

Good luck!
(i know how you feel. If i get disappointed that way, i sometimes cry. Esp. when people tell me stuff that isn't true in hindsight.)

 

[jdiamond]

Hang in there - I understand...

The Mac has bloated out quite a bit since Tiger (OS-X 10.4) when you could run fine in a few hundred megabytes, and the entire OS disk was under a gigabyte. Also, the OS is going through a major transition resulting in a lot of the Mac community holding back with Snow Leopard - which still has a DVD, so it's a bit like the XP situation on Windows. The no-physical-OS-disk thing is ridiculous - but there are ways to create your own. I still use Snow Leopard on a CD, but when it's time to move to Mountain Lion I'll pay extra for the USB version.

When I switched to the Mac after a dozen years of using Windows, the initial months were not fun - I didn't know how to do things "the mac way" and was quite homesick. But there were two benefits so large I noticed them right away (and ever since): *** I do not in any way want to start a thread war comparing OS-X and Windows ***- I just want to give my transition story:

-> So much built in functionality/software. On Windows, I literally need to install almost 100 pieces of software to get my daily routine going, so reinstalling the OS (which I did a lot) easily took a week. On the Mac, at first I really didn't feel like I needed to buy any software, although now I've amassed a bit...

-> Much, much, MUCH greater stability and ease of use. It's the kind of thing you don't notice consciously, but every time I switched back to Windows, I'd start cursing at it, getting frustrated. The Mac OS itself has just about never crashed, and something that amazes me, even to this day, is that if a Mac application hangs, Force Quit always works!

I initially ran Windows in VMWare - largely because I was homesick - I even would uselessly reinstall Windows in the emulator just for fun, 'cause after so long, how can you give it up? Almost all I did in Windows was continually reinstall it. But as time went on, I realized that most of the software I found on the Mac was better and I just didn't need Windows at all anymore. And I'm MUCH happier with Mac hardware. I don't regret that for a second. Even if you just install Windows on it, it's just awesome. All the Mac hardware I've had were tanks in the league of old Thinkpads - they never say die, and do everything you need, even if their raw specs can be a little out done.

The one thing that was a much harder transition was programming. XCode has come a long way, but it still has simple issues compared to Visual Studio.

Anyway, it's just a Mac Mini - no big investment. I'd say give it some time. Don't make rash decisions or get put off by finding something should be a certain way. Heck - I hear Mountain Lion finally lets you resize windows from any edge. Now, if someone can just make a first rate "create new file in this directory" program, we're covered. (And if you miss "forward delete", there's good programs for that one, too.)

- Jeff

 

[tshrimp]

Okay, so lets start:

1) The RAM-management on OSX IS better than on Windows. It's just that Lion needs more RAM than previous operating systems, so yes, you NEED 4 GB of RAM. That's why Apple made it so easy to swap it.

2) iTunes works fine on a PC and even a bit better and faster on a Mac. All errors I encountered so far (most of my friends hate iTunes 'cos of these "issues") were user fails. Okay, the telephone support for iTunes may not be the best, but the issue is 100% not a iTunes bug.

3) You CAN make a USB restore disk - just google for it. But honestly, why complain about the future? Internet gets faster, and for a 4 GB download you should't need longer than 30 minutes. That's just about the time a average guy needs to find his restore disk.

Yeah, you're a bit ignorant (no offense intended). You could've informed about all these things even on apples own website or the apple support community. Why blame the Mac Mini for your ignorance?

Wow. Well I have never posted on a forum before and been called ignorant so many times. I did hear that the Mac community didn't like when negative things were said, but I didn't expect this. I was excited about being a part of the mac community, but thought I would get more acceptance than this.

Please explain how I am ignorant?

1) Was told by Apple store that 2GB of ram is like 4GB. Searches on the web confirmed.
2) Was told by Apple store that iTunes was much better on Mac than on Windows. Searches on web confirmed.
3) Was told by Apple store that making a restore USB was doable. Coworker said same thing.

----------

It sounds like you got your hopes up high, way high.

"Someone" told you wrong about the RAM. He's an ass. I do know what he meant tho (RAM works more efficiently in macs) but i think windows got better and lion got more hungry, thus minimizing the difference.
Salespeople sell. Their main goal is getting your money. Do not trust!

About lion: you got some links, that'll help you out.
PS: get a HDD and turn on Time Machine, asap.

Mac's are a different breed. Give it a chance to grow on you, in a few weeks, you will think different(ly) ;-)

Good luck!
(i know how you feel. If i get disappointed that way, i sometimes cry. Esp. when people tell me stuff that isn't true in hindsight.)

I want to thank you and the others who gave me constructive information and didn't call me ignorant.

I am loving my Mac, and am excited about learning a new OS. I am doing as you said on Time Machine. I am moving files from one HD to another and will use this to try drive for Time Machine. I was thinking about partitioning it so I can use with Windows and Mac. it is a 500GB drive. How much space will I need for Time Machine?

Thanks again for everyones help.

Also I am liking Safari, but is there a better browser that is used by the mac community. I like Chrome (used on PC), but don't like the privacy policy.

 

[Poki]

Wow. Well I have never posted on a forum before and been called ignorant so many times. I did hear that the Mac community didn't like when negative things were said, but I didn't expect this. I was excited about being a part of the mac community, but thought I would get more acceptance than this.

Please explain how I am ignorant?

1) Was told by Apple store that 2GB of ram is like 4GB. Searches on the web confirmed.
2) Was told by Apple store that iTunes was much better on Mac than on Windows. Searches on web confirmed.
3) Was told by Apple store that making a restore USB was doable. Coworker said same thing.

1) Well... don't trust sales staff. However, RAM-upgrades are cheap and no one on this forum (for example) would have told you that 2GB are enough.

2) Again, you never told us what problem you exactly have. How should we help you when you don't tell us what you don't like about iTunes?

3) Yeah, Apple told the truth. It's easily doable.

No one will call you ignorant if you explain what exactly bothers you. Point 1 and 3 are closed, I think, but in order to sound less angry and more interested in the "other side" of computers you should tell us more about your problem(s) with iTunes and not just say it's not better or even worse than on a PC (although I think iTunes works great on a PC).

Edit: As for the Browser, I for myself love Opera on the Mac. Its fast as hell, has some nice features and a cool interface. Just try it out, it's free.

 

[Zendokan]

This won't be your last Mac:

Wait until you restore OSX Lion or upgrade to OSX Mountain Lion and you find out that you don't need to restore any of your applications, they stay working.

You will never experience the performance drop when your antivirus software starts to autoscan again, because there's absolute no need for installing antivirus software.

A start-up just takes 10 seconds tops, even faster if you use a SSD.

Buy Apple software: iWorks is a lot cheaper than MS Office for Mac...and it are the 3 same programs. (€54/€79 vs €140/€250/€380)/


Just for these little things that make your life easier, you won't co back to Wintel systems...if you give the Mactel a chance ;-)



Signed,
An ex-Microsoft hardliner.

 

[tshrimp]

Sorry, but you are ignorant about your Mac.

Seriously, who would believe that less RAM is better than more? Also, who would believe that a Mac without an optical disc drive would come with recovery discs?

1st...Thank your for calling me names. It is making me feel young again. I was told that I could create a USB recovery. I used the "Restore Disk" as a general term as that is usually the accepted term to state a restore media of some kind.

But maybe you are correct I should have notice that it looks like Apple might have made a restore usb option for people upgrading to Lion, but not ones who's computer came with it. I trusted the Apple store and guess I should't have as this obviously makes me ignorant.

Edit:

I noticed a post that stated the Apple store was correct on creating the USB restore disk. Please send me a link if you could please. I did search and found a restore usb that still goes to the web, and the other I found was USB created by downloading from the Mac App store (but this will cost me $30).

BTW....If I came across as angry in my 1st post (as someone said) I am sorry. Maybe a little frustrated but not angry. Most people have posted good stuff for me, and I thank you very much.

 

[MonkeySee....]

I want to thank you and the others who gave me constructive information and didn't call me ignorant.

I am loving my Mac, and am excited about learning a new OS. I am doing as you said on Time Machine. I am moving files from one HD to another and will use this to try drive for Time Machine. I was thinking about partitioning it so I can use with Windows and Mac. it is a 500GB drive. How much space will I need for Time Machine?

Thanks again for everyones help.

Also I am liking Safari, but is there a better browser that is used by the mac community. I like Chrome (used on PC), but don't like the privacy policy.

Safari is very good on osx. Did you get a trackpad? Gestures are immense.

 

[Poki]

Now you sound like you aren't too angry anymore. So now no one will call you ignorant anymore and everybody will try to help you. See how this game works?

 

[MrNomNoms]

1) Was told 2GB of RAM was like 4GB on a PC....Wrong. If anything it was like 1GB on a PC and not 4GB. I upgraded to 8GB for only $40, so not that big of a deal as it was easy to install.

So you listened to some ignorant fanboy about the memory requirements of Mac OS X and apparently it is the fault of Apple? Throw as much memory at the problem as you can - the more memory the better. I have 8GB on both my iMac and MacBook Pro without any regrets. Btw, Mac OS X isn't some how magically 'more efficient', Windows Vista was a dog but it had less to do with memory consumption and more to do with underpowered machines, GDI not being hardware accelerated and the increase in memory consumption due to WDDM 1.0 sorely lacking what was later added to Windows 7. If you're purchasing a Mac simply in the belief that you're going to enjoy some magical voodoo then sorry to be the deliverer of bad news - Mac's are not some magical super computer.

2) Was told iTunes works so much better on a Mac (I hated it on the PC). Found out it is just as bad. Had an issue with Home Sharing and called tech support (the tech support that is suppose to be top notch) and the 1st guy I got didn't know what Home Sharing was. I was transferred to a person who was more helpful, but he had never owned a Mac before. I was told that this issue has never shown up before and was sorry they couldn't help me and would close the case. (Close the case????? how about fix it).

Home Sharing is easy, load up iTunes, click on iTunes then Preferences, enable it then accept the disclaimer and then it should appear on all your other devices as well. The only issue I had was with iOS devices that require one to use their AppleID but that was easily resolved.

3) And the most annoying thing so far.....Where is my restore disk? I know I can restore over the web, but I am use to a 15-17 min reinstall when using Windows 7. Now I have to download almost 4Gb when I replace my drive with an SSD or upgrade to a faster drive. If someone has a pointer on how to make my own restore via USB Memory stick I am all ears.

Why didn't you buy a 8GB stick, download Lion from the AppStore and write the DMG (found inside the *.app downloaded off the AppStore) to the 8GB stick and voila you'd have installation media? There have been so many articles written on how to do this - you claimed in your reply to Poki that you had searched - well quite frankly by your ignorance being displayed on the topic you either didn't search or didn't search well enough.

 

[tshrimp]

Safari is very good on osx. Did you get a trackpad? Gestures are immense.

I did not. You might laugh at this, but I had an old wireless PC mouse and keyboard by Logitech. My son had some white stickers and I made the mac keys by drawing on the stickers and putting them on my Keyboard.

I thought about getting the mac keyboard and mouse as they are very nice, but I like a number pad and the wireless keyboard didn't have the number pad on it (only the usb keyboard did).

Is the the track pad easy to get use to, and is it worth the money? Also does the Mac keyboard feel good to type on?

Thanks

----------

So you listened to some ignorant fanboy about the memory requirements of Mac OS X and apparently it is the fault of Apple? Throw as much memory at the problem as you can - the more memory the better. I have 8GB on both my iMac and MacBook Pro without any regrets. Btw, Mac OS X isn't some how magically 'more efficient', Windows Vista was a dog but it had less to do with memory consumption and more to do with underpowered machines, GDI not being hardware accelerated and the increase in memory consumption due to WDDM 1.0 sorely lacking what was later added to Windows 7. If you're purchasing a Mac simply in the belief that you're going to enjoy some magical voodoo then sorry to be the deliverer of bad news - Mac's are not some magical super computer.




Home Sharing is easy, load up iTunes, click on iTunes then Preferences, enable it then accept the disclaimer and then it should appear on all your other devices as well. The only issue I had was with iOS devices that require one to use their AppleID but that was easily resolved.



Why didn't you buy a 8GB stick, download Lion from the AppStore and write the DMG (found inside the *.app downloaded off the AppStore) to the 8GB stick and voila you'd have installation media? There have been so many articles written on how to do this - you claimed in your reply to Poki that you had searched - well quite frankly by your ignorance being displayed on the topic you either didn't search or didn't search well enough.

Forgive my ignorance. If there is a way to download Lion from the Appstore without having to fork over $30 please let me know how. Thanks for your post.

 

[philipma1957]

I need someone to talk me down. I just purchased my new Mac Mini Mid 2011.

Issues so far:

1) Was told 2GB of RAM was like 4GB on a PC....Wrong. If anything it was like 1GB on a PC and not 4GB. I upgraded to 8GB for only $40, so not that big of a deal as it was easy to install.

THE PERSON THAT TOLD YOU THAT IS A LIAR AT WORST or JUST PLAIN IGNORANT AT BEST


2) Was told iTunes works so much better on a Mac (I hated it on the PC). Found out it is just as bad. Had an issue with Home Sharing and called tech support (the tech support that is suppose to be top notch) and the 1st guy I got didn't know what Home Sharing was. I was transferred to a person who was more helpful, but he had never owned a Mac before. I was told that this issue has never shown up before and was sorry they couldn't help me and would close the case. (Close the case????? how about fix it).



You have Applecare sounds like you did not call them. How on earth would Applecare say I never had a mac?

3) And the most annoying thing so far.....Where is my restore disk? I know I can restore over the web, but I am use to a 15-17 min reinstall when using Windows 7. Now I have to download almost 4Gb when I replace my drive with an SSD or upgrade to a faster drive. If someone has a pointer on how to make my own restore via USB Memory stick I am all ears.

With that said.....I love my new Mac. It is better than I would have thought it would be, and hope to be able to keep on with Apple, but if Mountain Lion does not allow me to create a USB restore then I am done with Mac.

Please someone set me straight before I adopt Windows 8.

While I like restore disks and find this really annoying. I bit the bullet and made 4 hdds with osx on them 2 are used to clone the internal on wed and on sunday. 2 are just fresh installs with only osx on them.

 

[tshrimp]

Now you sound like you aren't too angry anymore. So now no one will call you ignorant anymore and everybody will try to help you. See how this game works?

Sorry Poki. I guess I am not a very tactful typist. I tend not to sugar coat stuff, but if I made anyone upset I am sorry. It was not angry at all. I wish I would have come here 1st instead of going to the apple store. Most here seem to be more honest, as I no one here is trying to sell me anything.

 

[GGJstudios]

Please someone set me straight before I adopt Windows 8.

I didn't read all the responses, so if I repeat something that's already been said, that's why. It seems you can't throw a stick anywhere without hitting someone who thinks they're a "computer expert".

• Don't believe everything you read on the internet, especially if it's in a blog.
• Don't believe ANYTHING that a sales rep tells you.
• Don't believe anything that a Windows-only user tells you about Macs.
• Don't believe everything in advertising copy or "news articles".
• As far as Apple reps, it's important to remember than "Genius" is only their job title, and not necessarily an indication of their knowledge, experience or expertise. Some are new on the job and still learning.

A more reliable source of information is the Apple support website.

You'll also find a lot of help and good information in this forum. Pay attention to what people post and if you're uncertain about something posted, get confirmation from several others. The forum polices itself pretty well, so if someone posts misinformation, usually someone else catches it and corrects them. There are always exceptions, but you're generally safer getting advice from those who have been active in the forum for a while, rather than someone with only a handful of posts or who just joined. While many join with a wealth of knowledge and experience, it takes a while to get to know if their posts are generally reliable.

Take a deep breath. Relax. Now "reset" your expectations. A Mac is a computer. Just like every other computer, it's not flawless. However, if you give it time to learn your way around Mac OS X, you'll likely find you prefer it over Windows. Open your mind to the Mac way of doing things. In many cases, you may find it far more efficient than Windows. In some cases, you won't. It takes a bit of getting used to, but in my opinion, it's well worth the effort! Like many here, I can't imagine going back to Windows!

Helpful Information for Any Mac User
Mac Pro & Mac mini Fast Start: The new user's guide to the Mac

And while "ignorant" sounds pretty harsh, it simply means "uninformed".

 

[MonkeySee....]

I did not. You might laugh at this, but I had an old wireless PC mouse and keyboard by Logitech. My son had some white stickers and I made the mac keys by drawing on the stickers and putting them on my Keyboard.

I thought about getting the mac keyboard and mouse as they are very nice, but I like a number pad and the wireless keyboard didn't have the number pad on it (only the usb keyboard did).

Is the the track pad easy to get use to, and is it worth the money? Also does the Mac keyboard feel good to type on?

Thanks

Thats pretty funny but a good way to adapt.

I've replaced the mouse with the trackpad because of the gestures. two finger swipe left/right and you can move back and forward a page. You can work spaces etc with it also.

I like the Apple keyboard as i like chiclet keyboards but they aren't for everyone.

 

[drsox]

I'm throwing my lot in with tshrimp. It's hard to ask some questions on these forums without getting some smart**** making the inevitable comment. BUT however, if you can learn to phrase questions in the right way then it's worth persevering. After a while you may even be able to help someone else who's even less experienced. I do find that some people's experience of stuff is limited by only what Apple offers. e.g in networking and NASs. So these are areas where an OSX newbie can be extra helpful to others.

To the point however, I'm a 6 month convert to OSX from Win7 and Linux. OSX is much more stable and easier/faster to use. e.g. I've had SSDs for more than 4 years but the SSD/OSX combination on my MBA is more responsive than the SSD/Win7 I used to have (even though the geekbench score is much the same).

I also suggest you invest in a copy of MSOffice for OSX. Yes, it's more than Pages etc and much more than OpenOffice etc. But, the quality of the result is worth it. It also means you can continue with Outlook (better than Mail IMO). I intended to run MSOffice in Parallels but it's better in OSX. Parallels now only gets used for dedicated apps.

I'm going to be getting my 2nd Mac in a few months but as yet undecided between a MBP, Mini or iMac. If that works then I'll get another Mini and replace the last native Win7 PC.

Don't give up - it's worth the initial strangeness.

PS The keyboard and trackpad are first-class.

 

[MonkeySee....]

Why do I smell a troll? I think you should go back to Windows and tell us how much better it is.

You must have voted your own post up because only an idiot would find you post helpful.

If you've got nothing helpful to add, stay out the thread. Easy