2010 vs. 2011 iMac (Buyer's Planning)

[yustas]

Base 21.5"

High-end 27"

Core i7-2600 3.4GHz (3.8GHz with Turbo)
ATI "Blackcomb" (68xxM?)

Released in March-April.

I am also trying to decide whether to buy one now or wait for the next refresh. I am only interested in 27" i7. With the Sandy Bridge, it sounds like the next update is not going to be just a refresh, but a major update. Am I right? Is Sandy Bridge going to be in there for sure?

Also, what are your thoughts on an external design? Is it going to stay the same or can we expect it to be thinner? The current design is getting long in the tooth. No? But I am not sure what they can do to change the current form factor aside from making it thinner.

By the way, is it going to run cooler? I need a new computer, but I do not need a new system right now, at the same time, however, I do not want to wait another 4 moths just to get basically the same system that runs a little faster. It would also suck to spend over $2K now and 3 or 4 months later feel like you are using an outdated hardware. Is it reasonable to expect "big things" from the next update?

Thanks a lot for your help.

 

[Hellhammer]

I am also trying to decide whether to buy one now or wait for the next refresh. I am only interested in 27" i7. With the Sandy Bridge, it sounds like the next update is not going to be just a refresh, but a major update. Am I right? Is Sandy Bridge going to be in there for sure?

Also, what are your thoughts on an external design? Is it going to stay the same or can we expect it to be thinner? The current design is getting long in the tooth. No? But I am not sure what they can do to change the current form factor aside from making it thinner.

By the way, is it going to run cooler? I need a new computer, but I do not need a new system right now, at the same time, however, I do not want to wait another 4 moths just to get basically the same system that runs a little faster. It would also suck to spend over $2K now and 3 or 4 months later feel like you are using an outdated hardware. Is it reasonable to expect "big things" from the next update?

Thanks a lot for your help.

Well, nothing is sure yet but Sandy Bridge is only reasonable upgrade for iMac. I think the main question is what are you going to use it for. I wouldn't say Sandy Bridge will be revolutionary like Oct 2009 update was, just a speed bump though we don't know how big.

I doubt we'll see a redesign. In fact, we just saw one in October 2009. The current design is amazing so at least no big changes.

About the coolness, I doubt there will be a difference. It's likely that Apple will use parts with about the same TDP as before thus the temperatures should be similar.

Of course it all depends on what you think as big.

 

[Mc Kane]

It will obviously be a much bigger update than the small speed bump of 2010 but the real gap should be when Ivy Bridge hits.
While Sandy Bridge will still be using a 32nm process, Ivy Bridge (which is a die shrink of SB) will bring the 22nm process to the table. This should put quad core processors in the 21.5" and octo core processors in the 27". You're looking at theoretically doubling the performance across the line when going from SB to IB (in multithreaded applications of course).

Of course, this is based on the things we know about IB (which is next to nothing) and it's at least a year away from now.

 

[toxic]

I am also trying to decide whether to buy one now or wait for the next refresh. I am only interested in 27" i7. With the Sandy Bridge, it sounds like the next update is not going to be just a refresh, but a major update. Am I right? Is Sandy Bridge going to be in there for sure?

Sandy Bridge is the next Intel microarchitecture, and it's reasonable to assume Apple will use that instead of continuing with Westmere. I wouldn't say it will be a major update...no one made a big deal when iMacs switched from Core 2 last year, and SB isn't anything different.

Also, what are your thoughts on an external design? Is it going to stay the same or can we expect it to be thinner? The current design is getting long in the tooth. No? But I am not sure what they can do to change the current form factor aside from making it thinner.

doubt it.

I need a new computer, but I do not need a new system right now, at the same time, however, I do not want to wait another 4 moths just to get basically the same system that runs a little faster. It would also suck to spend over $2K now and 3 or 4 months later feel like you are using an outdated hardware. Is it reasonable to expect "big things" from the next update?

welcome to technology.

 

[Icaras]

IMO, the iMac Touch will be released either with or shortly after Lion.
Let me explain why I think the iMac Touch could easily be reality :

1) The technology exists. Dell will be selling a 21.5" IPS Multi touch screen in the coming months. It will probably be fitted with LED backlight too, just like the 21.5 current iMac.

So what if the technology exists now? Do you think touch screens are new? Try to remember way back before iPhones even existed. Assuming you've had a bank account during that time, I'm pretty sure you've accessed a touch screen ATM or other service terminal. Touch screen technology is nothing new and have been around for over a decade.

Tablets? Also been around for at least a decade. Smart phones? Same thing.

So going by your logic, we should have already had touch based computers, iPads and iPhones since the 90s. Just because the technology exists, doesn't mean at all that Apple is ready to jump on the wagon.

Please recall Job's iPad story at the last All Things Digital conference. The iPad and multi-touch was conceived in the early 2000s, but it wasn't until 2007 that Apple finally thought the technology was ready to release to consumers in what we all know is the iPhone.

Apple is notorious for entering a established market years later with a revolutionary product. Do you think merely having a touch screen iMac with multi-touch gestures on a traditionally based operating system is enough to shake up the market like they did with the iPad or iPhone?

I clearly don't see how that revolutionizes anything if all you're simply going to do is add touch capabilities to OSX, which is why I think we won't see any touch based Macs until OSXI at the earliest.

2) Lion will clearly be built with multi touch in mind (first bullet point of the unveiling of Lion). What we saw at the preview is only the tip of the iceberg IMO and it already showed that you will be able to do a lot of thing only with multi touch gestures.

Says who? Snow Leopard had multi-touch gestures too. Where was the so called touch screen iMac then? They had two years to do it based on your theory. Multi-touch gestures on OSX are not that new anymore.

3) As said before, Steve Jobs only said that multi touch is dumb when the screen is vertically oriented. With the patent showing how an iMac could transform in a computer with horizontal screen, I think this problem is taken care of.

So, the iPad and iPhone in their natural orientation is dumb? What?

4) I can already see the reveal showing the crappy Acer and HP, with Jobs explaining that it wasn't done right : slow computer, OS which isn't built with multi touch in mind, poor screen, multi touch that suck, etc...

Apple won't show something they truly don't think is ready or perfect for mass market. Again, over 5 years for the iPhone to come to fruition and nearly a decade for the iPad.

5) The whole "Back to the Mac" clearly apply to the hardware as we've seen with the MacBook Air. What's a better way to express that philosophy than a full fledged desktop Mac with a multi touch screen ?

A lot more areas can be emphasized about Macs rather than simply adding touch screen, I can say that for sure.

 

[yustas]

I think the main question is what are you going to use it for.

Web design, audio, video encoding and editing, DVD creation, Photoshop, word processing, and web surfing.

 

[Mc Kane]

So what if the technology exists now? Do you think touch screens are new? Try to remember way back before iPhones even existed. Assuming you've had a bank account during that time, I'm pretty sure you've accessed a touch screen ATM or other service terminal. Touch screen technology is nothing new and have been around for over a decade.

Tablets? Also been around for at least a decade. Smart phones? Same thing.

So going by your logic, we should have already had touch based computers, iPads and iPhones since the 90s. Just because the technology exists, doesn't mean at all that Apple is ready to jump on the wagon.

Please recall Job's iPad story at the last All Things Digital conference. The iPad and multi-touch was conceived in the early 2000s, but it wasn't until 2007 that Apple finally thought the technology was ready to release to consumers in what we all know is the iPhone.

Apple is notorious for entering a established market years later with a revolutionary product. Do you think merely having a touch screen iMac with multi-touch gestures on a traditionally based operating system is enough to shake up the market like they did with the iPad or iPhone?

I clearly don't see how that revolutionizes anything if all you're simply going to do is add touch capabilities to OSX, which is why I think we won't see any touch based Macs until OSXI at the earliest.

Are you seriously comparing crappy ATM touch screen to an IPS LED backlit multi touch screen ?
I know touch screen have existed for a long long time, my point was that having the same quality of screen used today in the iMac with the added multi touch is now possible !
That's actually exactly in line with what Steve Jobs said at the ATD Conference, they can now release a computer with the same high quality multi touch that we know without compromising on the screen quality.

Says who? Snow Leopard had multi-touch gestures too. Where was the so called touch screen iMac then? They had two years to do it based on your theory. Multi-touch gestures on OSX are not that new anymore.

There's a difference between having multi touch gesture and thinking your UI for touch screens.
Look at the Launch Pad, why the amount of space between icons ? Look at the iPhoto full screen mode, very few buttons which could be easily operated with a finger. Mission Control would be totally usable with fingers too. The scrollbars disappearance is logical because you don't need them when using your fingers to scroll.
And you're in contradiction with what you said above about Apple waiting for the technology to be ready (a thing that we agree on). During those two years, the technology wasn't available to make a multi touch iMac the way Apple wants it (high quality capacitive multi touch IPS Led backlit screen and OS with multi touch screen built in mind).

So, the iPad and iPhone in their natural orientation is dumb? What?

When I was talking about horizontal and vertical, I was thinking about that.

Apple won't show something they truly don't think is ready or perfect for mass market. Again, over 5 years for the iPhone to come to fruition and nearly a decade for the iPad.

Which is exactly why I said that they would wait for Lion to show up. They need to have an OS built with touch screen in mind and Lion is this OS IMO.
As you said yourself, Apple has a habit of entering markets after almost everyone and crushing them with new ideas. An iMac with great multi touch screen, a transitioning stand, an OS built for multi touch screen and great specs would obliterate the Acer and HP because it would essentially fix all the downsides of those computers.

A lot more areas can be emphasized about Macs rather than simply adding touch screen, I can say that for sure.

Of course there are more things to the Mac but what was the most revolutionizing part of the iPhone ? It wasn't the App Store or the Apps, that came later. It was the whole multi touch screen combined with the UI built for that.



With the transitioning stand patent, the rumors of Apple testing multi touch panels and Lion showing much bigger signs of multi touch gestures/screens integration that SL, I really think we'll see a touch based iMac in the coming months/year.

 

[Icaras]

Are you seriously comparing crappy ATM touch screen to an IPS LED backlit multi touch screen ? I know touch screen have existed for a long long time, my point was that having the same quality of screen used today in the iMac with the added multi touch is now possible !
That's actually exactly in line with what Steve Jobs said at the ATD Conference, they can now release a computer with the same high quality multi touch that we know without compromising on the screen quality.

There are so many more factors here rather than just having a "good quality" display used for touch, I don't even know where to begin. And by the way, yes I was indeed making that comparison with ATM touch screens; and the bottom line is that technology has existed for some time now. Period.

There's a difference between having multi touch gesture and thinking your UI for touch screens.
Look at the Launch Pad, why the amount of space between icons ? Look at the iPhoto full screen mode, very few buttons which could be easily operated with a finger. Mission Control would be totally usable with fingers too. The scrollbars disappearance is logical because you don't need them when using your fingers to scroll.

All valid reasons for having touch screen and I agree Lion is definitely moving into that territory. I'm not disputing that. But it won't happen in OSX. Reasons below.

And you're in contradiction with what you said above about Apple waiting for the technology to be ready (a thing that we agree on). During those two years, the technology wasn't available to make a multi touch iMac the way Apple wants it (high quality capacitive multi touch IPS Led backlit screen and OS with multi touch screen built in mind).

Can you please explain to me what a "high quality capacitive multi touch IPS Led backlit screen" is?Sounds like you're trying to take a clever stab at marketing. Is that the technology we need for touch screen computers? So Dell and HP have those types of displays already in their touch screen computers? Sorry, but touch screen or not, Apple's displays already kick the butt out of their competition in terms of quality and build. I refuse to believe the technology wasn't yet "available" to Apple for the last two years. If they can do it on the iPad, they can do it on a Mac display.

But going back to what you said... Mac displays are already IPS and already LED. That just leaves the "high quality capacitive multi touch" part of it. So please, could you elaborate on this?

When I was talking about horizontal and vertical, I was thinking about that.

Thanks for clarifying.

Which is exactly why I said that they would wait for Lion to show up. They need to have an OS built with touch screen in mind and Lion is this OS IMO.

But it's not 100% built with touch screen in mind. As much as you will argue about launch pad and mission control being touch friendly, I can just as much argue back that you still have closely spaced icons on the dock, hierarchy trees, menus, and several other UI elements that still NEED the precision of a cursor, all of which seem to be more or less satisfied by the current Magic Mouse and Trackpad's precision and multi-touch gesture capabilities.

So with a half-assed touch friendly OS, my argument is that it's still premature to imagine touch based Macs using OSX when obvious UI elements still don't play well with fingers. However, once Lion has run it's course, we do begin Apple's next generation of OS when they will eventually introduce OSXI. Here, they can at least write the code from the ground up to satisfy touch screen computing. The operating system and it's code is far more important than just a "high capacitive multi touch LED screen".

As you said yourself, Apple has a habit of entering markets after almost everyone and crushing them with new ideas. An iMac with great multi touch screen, a transitioning stand, an OS built for multi touch screen and great specs would obliterate the Acer and HP because it would essentially fix all the downsides of those computers.

Again, OSX was never primarily built for touch. Only some elements here and there have been introduced in Lion to be more touch friendly. A lot of the expose stuff and means of moving around your apps and windows is definitely gearing for a more tactile experience, and though you can argue that iPhoto may be headed into that direction as well, what about iMovie, or garageband even? Hell, please don't say I need to control those small UI elements in garageband with my finger. And that's just Apple. What about the rest of the industry and 3rd party vendors who will need to rewrite their apps to satisfy both mouse/kb and multi-touch?

So the rest of the OSX experience? All mouse and keyboard still. There's much more to this game than just having Launchpad, Mission Control, and an iPhoto with super large thumbnails.

Of course there are more things to the Mac but what was the most revolutionizing part of the iPhone ? It wasn't the App Store or the Apps, that came later. It was the whole multi touch screen combined with the UI built for that.

Yes, a UI 100% completely built from the ground up to do nothing but touch based interfacing. OSX is NOT that. iOS is. It's really as simple as that. That's why they'll have their chance in OSXI, which I'm sure they've probably been developing way under the radar for god knows how long now.

With the transitioning stand patent, the rumors of Apple testing multi touch panels and Lion showing much bigger signs of multi touch gestures/screens integration that SL, I really think we'll see a touch based iMac in the coming months/year.

Patents can be a sign of things to come, but that doesn't automatically make them green lit for commercial release. Many get scrapped anyway because sometimes they just don't work well. I'm not saying it's not a possibility, but jeez, how long has Apple's tablet computer patent been around before the iPad finally came to be?

Only time will tell but I really wouldn't hold my breath, especially if you're thinking as soon as 2011. Just don't be so disappointed when Apple delivers and it's not what you expect. That lesson has been learned and chastised to MR users on these forums too many times now.

 

[jlyanks85]

Hopefully they don't update the imacs anytime soon since I just bought one today. I desperately needed a new computer though, just couldn't wait any longer. If I keep playing the waiting game with technology I'll never buy a computer lol. I've been using a 2006 hp ready to hit the graveyard, so it was necessary for me to get one.

 

[Hellhammer]

Web design, audio, video encoding and editing, DVD creation, Photoshop, word processing, and web surfing.

Hmm, then you would benefit off more CPU power. It's only 1.5 months till Sandy Bridge is released so if you can wait, do it. We should be getting some reviews and benchmarks in the very beginning of January.

 

[Locker]

I purchased a 27" i7 yesterday with a 2TB HDD. It's been almost exactly 3 years since I got my first mac (2007 iMac) and I wanted to upgrade. This is how I saw it:

• I love my current iMac. I just wanted a speed bump and larger HDD.
• I don't really game so I don't need to worry about graphic card updates too much.
• I'm not interested in USB 3.0 as it's only really useful for external HDDs (which even then are limited in speed unless they're SSD), and I'll have a large 2TB one in the new machine anyway.
• I figure that in another 3 years time when I look to refresh again, SSD's will have fallen in to my price range - that I think will make the biggest difference.

The current i7 is fast and its power isn't even utilised by most software, so I'm more than confident that it'll last me the next three years and hold good re-sale value to boot!

I say, if you're thinking about it but don't know whether to wait. Just go out and get one - you won't regret it

 

[henrikrox]

No, it's been since almost 4 months since last update:

https://www.macrumors.com/2010/07/2...s-with-upgraded-ati-radeon-hd-graphics-cards/

And yes, I believe it will happen soon...by Feb/March, like many here have proposed. We're already halfway in an iMac's usual refresh cycle.

The iMac is Apple's flagship desktop line, which means frequent updates.

Sorry to disappoint, but the refresh isnt happening anytime soon. I know for a fact it wont be out before early summer

 

[capebud1]

Sorry to disappoint, but the refresh isnt happening anytime soon. I know for a fact it wont be out before early summer

Curious why you think that is? Trends show that Apple's iMac release cycles are typically in the 9-10 month time frames. If they release in February (for example), that gives them ample time to refresh in time for the Lion release. In fact, the earlier they release, the more in sync they will be with current trends. Again, this is all speculation!

 

[Nishi100]

Curious why you think that is? Trends show that Apple's iMac release cycles are typically in the 9-10 month time frames. If they release in February (for example), that gives them ample time to refresh in time for the Lion release. In fact, the earlier they release, the more in sync they will be with current trends. Again, this is all speculation!

I think that they will "miss" the expected release date (Feb - March) and release it at WWDC 2011, with lion these iMacs:

iMac 21.5
iMac 27
iMac *22* touch


I agree with Hellhammer's prediction, for the specs.

Base 21.5"

Core i3-2100 3.1GHz
ATI 5670 (aka 5730M) or ATI "Seymor" (66xxM?)

High-end 21.5"

Core i3-2120 3.3GHz [option for Core i5-2400S or Core i5-2500S (quad cores)]
ATI "Whistler" (67xxM?)

Base 27"

Core i5-2400 3.1GHz (3.4GHz with Turbo) or Core i5-2500 3.3GHz (3.7GHz with Turbo) [quad cores]
ATI "Whistler"

High-end 27"

Core i7-2600 3.4GHz (3.8GHz with Turbo)
ATI "Blackcomb" (68xxM?)

and I think they will add:
HDMI or Lightpeak,
USB 3.0 if it is implemented in to Sandy Bridge,
Express-card slot or microSD.

The touch iMac, will have specs as the 21.5 inch iMac.

Again, all speculation; Apple could release an update for the iMac's in March, then release a Touch iMac at WWDC or wait for September, for the next next iMac's to release the Touch iMac.

I think the Touch iMac will be a different product from the iMac.

 

[peskaa]

I agree with Hellhammer's prediction, for the specs.

and I think they will add:
HDMI or Lightpeak,
USB 3.0 if it is implemented in to Sandy Bridge,
Express-card slot or microSD.

Don't expect LightPeak on iMacs just yet. I'm expecting them to hit the next round of Mac Pros (which is also more in line with when I'm expecting the technology to be consumer-ready) first, marketed as a high end professional connection technology. Only then will it trickle down to iMacs and the laptops, so I would expect it in 2011 or even 2012.

USB 3? Maybe, but Intel seem to be wary of it, and hence Apple. Steve probably doesn't see it offering any real advantage.

ExpressCard...why? It's not like you need to put a 3G modem in an iMac that often is it?

Basically, I expect the next iMacs to just be a spec bump, as usual. No new features or technologies.

 

[Icaras]

Curious why you think that is?

Because he says so. Can't argue with that!

 

[Nishi100]

Sorry to disappoint, but the refresh isnt happening anytime soon. I know for a fact it wont be out before early summer

Really; how do you know that? Are you Steve Jobs?

I've fixed it for you:

Sorry to possibly disappoint you, but the refresh may not happen in the near future. I think it wont come out before early summer

 

[Jolt]

I think that they will "miss" the expected release date (Feb - March) and release it at WWDC 2011, with lion these iMacs:

iMac 21.5
iMac 27
iMac *22* touch

I agree with Hellhammer's prediction, for the specs.

and I think they will add:
HDMI or Lightpeak,
USB 3.0 if it is implemented in to Sandy Bridge,
Express-card slot or microSD.

The touch iMac, will have specs as the 21.5 inch iMac.

Again, all speculation; Apple could release an update for the iMac's in March, then release a Touch iMac at WWDC or wait for September, for the next next iMac's to release the Touch iMac.

I think the Touch iMac will be a different product from the iMac.

Touch iMac? Unlikely. What's the point?

HDMI? On a desktop computer? Why?

USB3? Maybe, but what's the rush?

Express-card/mSD? Why add it to the machine when you can easily get this functionality from USB peripherals.

 

[Nishi100]

Touch iMac? Unlikely. What's the point? Why not?

HDMI? On a desktop computer? Why? To connect an PS3 to play games on it? And, for connecting blu ray drives to watch REAL HD content on the "beyond HD screen"

USB3? Maybe, but what's the rush? External Drives have already come out, that support USB 3.0; however, I think Apple are supporting Light Peak rather than USB 3.0; but, having a few USB 3.0 ports it better than using an USB 3.0 to Light Peak Adapter

Express-card/mSD? Why add it to the machine when you can easily get this functionality from USB peripherals. Convenient, why pay for an adapter?

Boom; comments in bold.

 

[peskaa]

Boom; comments in bold.

You've clearly not been buying Apple for long.

1) Apple don't want you plugging a PS3 or anything akin to one in to an iMac. We can only do so currently on the 27" models via expensive upscalers and adapters. Apple won't ever support this officially. Ergo, no point them providing HDMI - and if they have a choice over which video output source to support, between MDP and HDMI they'll pick MDP every time (mainly because it's more flexible, runs at higher resolution and can be adapted to DVI, VGA and HDMI).

Apple don't care about BluRay. They want you to purchase HD Movies off iTMS.

2) I agree Apple will be supporting LightPeak, and most likely at the expense of USB 3.0, however, LightPeak isn't due to hit until Q2 2011 at the earliest, and it'll go to the pro machines first not iMacs.

3) Apple never have installed an expansion slot in their desktops. Hell, they've even removed them from the 15" MacBook Pros. People simply don't use ExpressCard devices - I see loads of Apple laptops on a daily basis, and they all have either no slot, or an empty one.

 

[khollister]

My guesses, er well reasoned predictions:

1. Sandy Bridge as a speed bump
2. Lightpeak in 2012
3. No USB 3
4. No Expresscard (they have removed it from the 15" MBP's)
5. Would be nice to get eSATA, but I doubt that will happen. Lightpeak will be the high speed expansion solution for iMac
6. Faster graphics for the game crowd
7. Still 16 GB RAM max

 

[Nishi100]

You've clearly not been buying Apple for long.

1) Apple don't want you plugging a PS3 or anything akin to one in to an iMac. We can only do so currently on the 27" models via expensive upscalers and adapters. Apple won't ever support this officially. Ergo, no point them providing HDMI - and if they have a choice over which video output source to support, between MDP and HDMI they'll pick MDP every time (mainly because it's more flexible, runs at higher resolution and can be adapted to DVI, VGA and HDMI).

Apple don't care about BluRay. They want you to purchase HD Movies off iTMS.

2) I agree Apple will be supporting LightPeak, and most likely at the expense of USB 3.0, however, LightPeak isn't due to hit until Q2 2011 at the earliest, and it'll go to the pro machines first not iMacs.

3) Apple never have installed an expansion slot in their desktops. Hell, they've even removed them from the 15" MacBook Pros. People simply don't use ExpressCard devices - I see loads of Apple laptops on a daily basis, and they all have either no slot, or an empty one.

Apple doesn't have a choice: if they put Light Peak in the next iMac, then users can buy: LP to USB 3.0 adapter, LP to HDMI adapter, LP to any other connector.

Apple won't put HDMI, blu ray, express-card slot; but, as a result of putting LP in their iMac, it is inevitable that - if not Apple - some other company will manufacture converters.

Light Peak coming in 2011, Apple will want to have it before anyone else; considering, it could have - and probably was - their idea.

 

[peskaa]

Apple doesn't have a choice: if they put Light Peak in the next iMac, then users can buy: LP to USB 3.0 adapter, LP to HDMI adapter, LP to any other connector.

Apple won't put HDMI, blu ray, express-card slot; but, as a result of putting LP in their iMac, it is inevitable that - if not Apple - some other company will manufacture converters.

Light Peak coming in 2011, Apple will want to have it before anyone else; considering, it could have - and probably was - their idea.

You're not reading what I'm saying. Note that we're talking about the next iMac refresh, some time in Q1 2011.

Apple will be getting LightPeak. We know this, I said this. However, that Q2 target window is going to be after the next iMac refresh, and in addition, Apple will put it in the Mac Pro first, and then trickle it down the range. In other words, the absolute earliest it could be in an iMac is going to be the Late 2011 models, but it is far more likely to be in the Early 2012.

Apple will also initially only be using LightPeak as a replacement for USB. We've only just transitioned over to MiniDisplayPort, and the 27" ACD is basically brand new - they won't move to LightPeak displays for a while.

Finally, don't expect adapters fast. LightPeak is going to be a niche, Mac only product for a while. Only when the PC market starts using it will there be an explosion in devices available.

Also, what on earth is the point of an ExpressCard to LightPeak adapter? That's just nonsense.

In regards to HDMI to LP input? Yeah, don't expect anything. The limitation on the 27" ACD and iMac is actually that it only accepts 720p or 1440p inputs, not the standard 1080p. Still need an expensive scaler.

 

[Nishi100]

You're not reading what I'm saying. Note that we're talking about the next iMac refresh, some time in Q1 2011.

I am actually reading very carefully what you are saying. Look how long they "missed" the predicted release date with the last the Mac Pro and MBA.

Apple will be getting LightPeak. We know this, I said this. However, that Q2 target window is going to be after the next iMac refresh, and in addition, Apple will put it in the Mac Pro first, and then trickle it down the range. In other words, the absolute earliest it could be in an iMac is going to be the Late 2011 models, but it is far more likely to be in the Early 2012.

How do you know it will be released in Q1 2011, isn't it possible that they could wait for WWDC 2011? Which, then, will be a few months after Light Peak's release. Why can't they release the Mac Pro and iMac at the same time?

Apple will also initially only be using LightPeak as a replacement for USB. We've only just transitioned over to MiniDisplayPort, and the 27" ACD is basically brand new - they won't move to LightPeak displays for a while.

How do you know that? Steve Jobs had said he dislikes USB 3.0; they would want to find a replacement; however, they will need to push it, not just as a USB replacement, but as a universal connector, that supports everything (with an adapter.)

Finally, don't expect adapters fast. LightPeak is going to be a niche, Mac only product for a while. Only when the PC market starts using it will there be an explosion in devices available.

I wasn't talking about products that a specifically made for LP, I was talking about the adapters that will probably be sold separate, by Apple.

Also, what on earth is the point of an ExpressCard to LightPeak adapter? That's just nonsense.

Ha, your not reading carefully what I am saying, I didn't put LP to express-card slot or express-card slot to LP, did I?

In regards to HDMI to LP input? Yeah, don't expect anything. The limitation on the 27" ACD and iMac is actually that it only accepts 720p or 1440p inputs, not the standard 1080p. Still need an expensive scaler.

OK

BTW: How do you know if you put a LP, to HDMI, to a PS3 it wont work? Is it because you think that MDP to HDMI doesn't work, so LP to HDMI won't work?

 

[peskaa]

How do you know it will be released in Q1 2011, isn't it possible that they could wait for WWDC 2011? Which, then, will be a few months after Light Peak's release. Why can't they release the Mac Pro and iMac at the same time?

Because Apple always, always, always release in cycles, no matter what state the technology is in. This means we can expect a new iMac in early 2011, another in late 2011, and a new Mac Pro roughly around Q3. If Apple don't release a spec bump in early 2011, it'll throw the whole thing off. Hence LightPeak will get its first chance in late 2011 at the absolute earliest, if not 2012.

How do you know that? Steve Jobs had said he dislikes USB 3.0; they would want to find a replacement; however, they will need to push it, not just as a USB replacement, but as a universal connector, that supports everything (with an adapter.)

Of course, and this is why they will go down the LightPeak route. However, Steve will say USB 2.0 is fine for now, there's no need to rush...in addition, moving to LightPeak as a single connector is going to require a redesign of basically everything Apple sell - computers, displays, iPods, iPhones, iPads...the list goes on. It is not going to be a quick transition - we'll be seeing LightPeak being used along with "legacy" ports for a while.

I wasn't talking about products that a specifically made for LP, I was talking about the adapters that will probably be sold separate, by Apple.

Apple don't even make a HDMI adapter right now. Shows how much they care. Apple will simply make a handful of adapters (DVI, MiniDisplayPort) and that's it. Everything else will be third party, same as it has always been.

Ha, your not reading carefully what I am saying, I didn't put LP to express-card slot, did I?

Apple won't put HDMI, blu ray, express-card slot; but, as a result of putting LP in their iMac, it is inevitable that - if not Apple - some other company will manufacture converters.
That is what you wrote.
You originally said that Apple will put ExpressCard in the next iMac, further back in the topic. Then you move on to talking about "convertors" from 3rd party, and you mentioned ExpressCard. Sorry, that's a LP to ExpressCard adapter right there...which will never happen.

BTW: How do you know if you put a LP, to HDMI, to a PS3 it wont work? Is it because you think that MDP to HDMI doesn't work, so LP to HDMI won't work?

HDMI to LightPeak (ie: acting as an input) will be pushing out a 1080p signal, right? Apple's 27" displays won't accept 1080p, so you can't just plug an adapter in and go - there's a load of topics in here about doing this right now using MDP. The limitation is due to the screen Apple have used, and the lack of any inbuilt scaling chip.

Now, technically, LightPeak will probably be able to convert HDMI to LP without problem (as long as you have the correct adapter). The problem is more with Apple - they won't magically enable 1080p input on their screens. Instead, you have to go spend $280 on a scaling hardware box to convert to 1440p, and only then can you convert to LP (or MDP as it is now). Essentially the problem is Apple, and what they don't want you doing.


And yes, back in the day Apple were leading the hardware race. First with USB, Firewire etc. Now we don't get BluRay, USB 3 in a timely fashion, eSATA...it's crap.