2012 12-core Constantly Shutting Down

[pastrychef]

I'm pretty much the same. I only go to Apple when there are hardware failures due to no fault of my own. Swollen battery damaging the trackpad on my old MacBook was not my fault. I ended up having to buy parts to repair it myself. In the case of the GPU issue on my old iBook, I ended up reballing it myself when Apple refused to take responsibility.

The only time I had an issue with a desktop Mac was when the Radeon X1900 died in one of my Mac Pros and Apple was replacing them with Nvidia 8800 GTs. They wanted me to haul my entire Mac Pro in when I knew what was wrong and I refused. Eventually, they conceded.

Whenever I've had to go to them, I go in knowing exactly what's wrong. Unfortunately, more often than not, they haven't taken responsibility.

As you can see, over the years, ATI/AMD GPUs have given me considerable grief. That's why I haven't used them in my systems in years and avoided laptops which uses them. It has helped me avoid having to go to the Genius Bar.

 

[filmbufs]

I assume you are able to get a refund on any Apple repairs for this problem?...

Her mac was a few months out of warranty when this all started (naturally.) So far, every step towards a resolution so far has been free of charge. Which is very nice. That said, it almost seems like this issue won't ever be resolved because far too man people are experiencing this and no solution, or even the primary cause, has been found.

 

[Larry-K]

Ya think Apple would notice that those are not genuine Apple-supplied CPUs?

You do know, they're not really geniuses, don't you?

Don't recall seeing any Apple Happy-Face crap on intel processors.

 

[Prince134]

In case anyone was keeping score, my 2.4 CPUs arrived along with hex wrench, chemical cleaners and thermal paste:

1) Removed the front CPU (left side when looking into open case) and booted up without it. Still crashes when going into deep sleep.

2) Installed the replacement front CPU and removed the rear CPU (right side when looking into open case) and it would not boot; blinking power button LED. I didn't track the pattern or frequency. FYI, I had kept all 8 RAM modules installed.

3) Installed replacement rear CPU, bringing total CPUs back to two. Computer boots...

But now it shuts down constantly, more so than it ever did: during the boot cycle, after it boots, during a short AHT test. Speaking of the AHT test, it now seems to "pause" while testing memory and eventually shuts down. Before, I was able to always complete the short AHT test; it was only the long test where it would shut down roughly 5-10 minutes into the process.

Reseting SMC and PRAM has no effect to the shut downs. Both 2.4 CPUs are detected and do seem to be running fine as far as I can tell.

As I had tested the RAM modules a couple weeks ago, swapping in only a random pair at a time with no effect to shut downs, I still don't think they're the cause of the issue, but it does make me wonder why AHT seems to get stuck testing memory now and shuts down; there is the possibility a module(s) got damaged during the troubleshooting and hardware swaps. But with 8 of them, I can deal with that later.

Regardless, it's now pretty much a forgone conclusion that it's not CPU related.

I'm beginning to lean towards a power supply issue as the frequency of shut downs has been increasing since the initial symptoms of just when it went into deep sleep.

So my next step is scheduling a Genius Bar appointment; that will probably have to wait until April.

Have you tried change memory modules? You have 8. It's easy to get one failure. Also in my experience, the best memory voltage is 1.5V model. You can't mix with 1.33v. Even if all same, as long as one defect, it will have symptoms like that. Try to put fewer modules possible. For example have you tried put one memory module per CPU?

 

[Auggie]

You do know, they're not really geniuses, don't you?

Don't recall seeing any Apple Happy-Face crap on intel processors.

Why thank you Larry! You are such a GENIUS yourself with this true nugget of wisdom! I really wouldn't have figured out anything without you're insightful knowledge; where have you been all my life?

Have you tried change memory modules? You have 8. It's easy to get one failure. Also in my experience, the best memory voltage is 1.5V model. You can't mix with 1.33v. Even if all same, as long as one defect, it will have symptoms like that. Try to put fewer modules possible. For example have you tried put one memory module per CPU?

Yes, I removed all 8 then tested a different random pair until all 8 had been cycled through and problem persisted. Apple had also tried brand new RAM and it didn't resolve the issue they were experiencing.

 

[nft]

Just want to say thanks for all the information Auggie-it's so helpful to know what you've tried and been through. I have to say I've also have had excellent service from Apple repair.

 

[Auggie]

Just want to say thanks for all the information Auggie-it's so helpful to know what you've tried and been through. I have to say I've also have had excellent service from Apple repair.

I wish I had a favorable report to share at this time, but alas, the machine has now succumbed to its previous completely unusable state in which it now shuts down almost constantly; usually during boot, but if not then shortly thereafter reaching the desktop while I attempt some semblance of usage.

So per my last update, I have to get a new machine, probably sometime next week. After that, it will be a slow, methodical process of component-by-component swapping, after first switching backplane boards, processor boards, processors, RAM, and video cards (all cables will remain with their respective original cases initially). Hopefully this extremely detailed diagnostic procedure will eventually led me to the offending culprit.

 

[s-hatland]

wow! what a journey - thanks for sharing. hope you get it running smooth soon.

reminds me of our old powermac 6100/60. it would boot, be on for exactly 21 minutes, then shut down. mac repair shop gave up on that one as well. after returning home with our "dead" computer, dad and i decided to tear it apart, just to see what was inside. that's when we found the dustbunny-from-hell. weird that the mac tech didn't even open the case. now i dust my macs/computers bi-monthly. i know that's not the cure for yours, but reminded me of my first case opening. anyways, thanks again, keep us updated and good luck!

 

[Auggie]

reminds me of our old powermac 6100/60. it would boot, be on for exactly 21 minutes, then shut down. mac repair shop gave up on that one as well. after returning home with our "dead" computer, dad and i decided to tear it apart, just to see what was inside. that's when we found the dustbunny-from-hell. weird that the mac tech didn't even open the case. now i dust my macs/computers bi-monthly. i know that's not the cure for yours, but reminded me of my first case opening. anyways, thanks again, keep us updated and good luck!

It is IMMACULATE inside, now that Apple has replaced all the major innards; I just tore it partially down to get to the Airport card to remove it to transplant into a 2008 Mac Pro running Sierra in which it's OEM Airport card is not supported by Sierra. I've now fully confirmed that all aforementioned parts are indeed brand new (small victory). Even before these travails, it was clean inside and devoid of any appreciable dust.

But a new chapter is being written: I happened across a Mac parts online store (MacPartsOnline.com, heh) and while chatting with a representative about enclosures and ancillary components, he asked why I was so interested in these parts. After explaining the history of Apple's repair attempts and all the brand new parts they left inside for free, he wanted me to call him directly in order to offer to repair the machine free of charge. He thinks he knows exactly what the problem is. Skeptical am I, but I have nothing to lose as the machine is completely unusable and sitting dead on my desk, I just packed and shipped it off to the company.

Stay tuned...

 

[Prince134]

...@@...

I want to know the detail after they fix it.

 

[Auggie]

I want to know the detail after they fix it.

And it will be duly reported here, of course.

What's intriguing about this development is that he's in the perfect position to locate the fault since he has immediate access to genuine, brand new Apple parts, including brand new enclosures (these were the reason I first noticed their website and decided to contact them). The local Apple Store is at a disadvantage here because it has to order and wait for all 5,1 replacement parts, so they are not equipped to handle an unknown fault situation that went beyond Apples published troubleshooting procedures and guidelines. In addition, he also has access to untold used 5,1 parts as well; in fact, during the early part of our conversation, he was willing to send out any used parts to assist in my troubleshooting (FYI, a power button is $112 new, $60 used; an enclosure is $500 new, $250 used but with more components already included), returning them for full refunds if they didn't resolve the problem. The conversation quickly turned to simply having me ship the entire computer to him so he could repair it himself. Perhaps the challenge to fix this where Apple failed appealed to him. Or maybe he truly knows what ails my computer.

Regardless, I wait in anticipation for the final diagnosis and cure...

 

[rpmurray]

I'm placing my bet on the power button.

 

[ActionableMango]

I'm placing my bet on the power button.

Anyways, their only other educated guess is that it has something to do with the organic components included with the physical case: power switch, cables, USB/Firewire/Ethernet/Headphone/Mic/Toslink ports, and the rat's ness of wires.

Auggie, I have a 2010 5,1 front I/O board assembly and cable that you can have for free. That's the piece in front that handles power, audio jack, USB, and FW. If you would like it, just PM me your address.

 

[Auggie]

Auggie, I have a 2010 5,1 front I/O board assembly and cable that you can have for free. That's the piece in front that handles power, audio jack, USB, and FW. If you would like it, just PM me your address.

Thanks for the offer! The machine is en route to the company, so no point in collecting parts just yet.

What's interesting is that when I started conversing with the rep about my and Apple's suspicion of case components and I was going to focus first on the power button/front panel board/front-panel-board to main-board cable assembly, the rep kept suggesting the fault lies with the main board, even as I told him several times that Apple had already replaced it. I said it was time to "think outside the box" and look elsewhere past the obvious components that had already been replaced.

He was still confident that he would get it fixed the day he receives it (this Friday). We shall see...

 

[William Payne]

Its nice to know that you can still get parts from apple.

 

[filmbufs]

Very excited to hear the upcoming results, @Auggie

 

[Auggie]

I've let the machine run for almost a month now since receiving it back and thus far, all issues have been resolved!

I didn't want to prematurely report the status (again) until I was confident the problems had been fixed.

In a nutshell: it was the power supply.

Now, you (as well as I had) maybe scratching your head as that component was supposedly already tested by Apple. It definitely still had the original PS in it; it was not a new one.

As a reminder, the original repair by Apple was to replace the PS, but they said it didn't resolve the issue and they subsequently reinstalled the old one and went on to replace the backplane board. Although that initially resolved the constant barrage of shutdowns temporarily, the symptoms eventually came back. After which Apple replaced all processors, video card, and processor board to no avail. They kept all those new components installed and refunded all previous repair costs.

What I think happened was that there were multiple failures of at least two different components such that simply replacing the PS on the first go around didn't fix the most obvious symptom of the incessant shutting down. Subsequent attempts at resolving the issue, Apple techs did not revisit replacing the PS with a new one again. Perhaps they no longer had the new replacement on-hand so it was not something they could have immediately tried anyways. And this is where MacPartsOnline, with all the possible replacement parts at their fingertips, had the advantage.

MacPartsOnline first replaced the processor board and RAM to no effect. They were then going to replace the mainboard first thing the next day, but instead decided to replace the power supply: immediate results were realized, and after letting it run through a weekend, deemed the issue resolved and shipped it back to me.

A month later of "normal" operations, I've confirmed its resolution.

Although this headache took several months to work out, in the end I now have an almost entirely new computer internally so this should easily carry me through until the new "modular" Mac Pro is released.

 

[filmbufs]

I've let the machine run for almost a month now since receiving it back and thus far, all issues have been resolved!

I didn't want to prematurely report the status (again) until I was confident the problems had been fixed.

In a nutshell: it was the power supply.

Now, you (as well as I had) maybe scratching your head as that component was supposedly already tested by Apple. It definitely still had the original PS in it; it was not a new one.

As a reminder, the original repair by Apple was to replace the PS, but they said it didn't resolve the issue and they subsequently reinstalled the old one and went on to replace the backplane board. Although that initially resolved the constant barrage of shutdowns temporarily, the symptoms eventually came back. After which Apple replaced all processors, video card, and processor board to no avail. They kept all those new components installed and refunded all previous repair costs.

What I think happened was that there were multiple failures of at least two different components such that simply replacing the PS on the first go around didn't fix the most obvious symptom of the incessant shutting down. Subsequent attempts at resolving the issue, Apple techs did not revisit replacing the PS with a new one again. Perhaps they no longer had the new replacement on-hand so it was not something they could have immediately tried anyways. And this is where MacPartsOnline, with all the possible replacement parts at their fingertips, had the advantage.

MacPartsOnline first replaced the processor board and RAM to no effect. They were then going to replace the mainboard first thing the next day, but instead decided to replace the power supply: immediate results were realized, and after letting it run through a weekend, deemed the issue resolved and shipped it back to me.

A month later of "normal" operations, I've confirmed its resolution.

Although this headache took several months to work out, in the end I now have an almost entirely new computer internally so this should easily carry me through until the new "modular" Mac Pro is released.

Wow, this is AWESOME! Thanks so much, @Auggie for posting the results and being so darn thorough in all of your adventures to get this resolved! You've earned Hero Status in my book. I think we will have to contact MacPartsOnline and set up a repair schedule. Do you mind if I ask what they charged you?

 

[Auggie]

Wow, this is AWESOME! Thanks so much, @Auggie for posting the results and being so darn thorough in all of your adventures to get this resolved! You've earned Hero Status in my book. I think we will have to contact MacPartsOnline and set up a repair schedule. Do you mind if I ask what they charged you?

With the $150 insured FedEx shipping round-trip using original Apple Mac Pro box, it came out to a total just under $500; so $350 for the PS replacement. Significantly cheaper than my alternative route of purchasing another complete 2012 Mac Pro dually outright and methodically swapping individual parts one at a time and letting it run for weeks.

Again, I think what tripped everyone up, including myself, was a failure across multiple components; all of us were focusing on just one component. I think Apple started along the right track by not removing new components when it didn't fix the problem before focusing on a different component, but they never doubled-back to the power supply.

MacPartsOnline told me there are only 4 main components of the Mac Pro that failure may cause the symptoms exhibited: main board, processor board, video card, and power supply.

FYI, they are willing to send out individual parts for replacement for DIY repairs, and if it doesn't resolve the issues, a full refund would be provided upon return of the still functional and undamaged part.

Anywho, I'm going to reinstall the 3.46 GHz CPUs next week along with the connecting Bluetooth to the newer Airport/Bluetooth combo board (just the WiFi side is connected presently) and see how that fares for a month. That will thoroughly test the configuration that I had it last at before the headaches began.

 

[filmbufs]

With the $150 insured FedEx shipping round-trip using original Apple Mac Pro box, it came out to a total just under $500; so $350 for the PS replacement. Significantly cheaper than my alternative route of purchasing another complete 2012 Mac Pro dually outright and methodically swapping individual parts one at a time and letting it run for weeks.

Again, I think what tripped everyone up, including myself, was a failure across multiple components; all of us were focusing on just one component. I think Apple started along the right track by not removing new components when it didn't fix the problem before focusing on a different component, but they never doubled-back to the power supply.

MacPartsOnline told me there are only 4 main components of the Mac Pro that failure may cause the symptoms exhibited: main board, processor board, video card, and power supply.

FYI, they are willing to send out individual parts for replacement for DIY repairs, and if it doesn't resolve the issues, a full refund would be provided upon return of the still functional and undamaged part.

Anywho, I'm going to reinstall the 3.46 GHz CPUs next week along with the connecting Bluetooth to the newer Airport/Bluetooth combo board (just the WiFi side is connected presently) and see how that fares for a month. That will thoroughly test the configuration that I had it last at before the headaches began.

Thanks for this information as well, @Auggie . It might be worth having them ship the part our way and see what can be done from here. Do you have any kind of name or part ID we can refer to? Also, do you think it wise to wait until your testing is complete with your the install of your CPUs next week before we attempt to replace the power supply?

 

[Auggie]

That really is dependent upon your own immediate needs, whether you can wait the few weeks or so for me to fully test out the machine with 3.46's.

I'll be out of town for a week come the weekend, hence the reason why it'll be the following weekend before I perform the CPU R&R.

 

[Blakehoo]

That really is dependent upon your own immediate needs, whether you can wait the few weeks or so for me to fully test out the machine with 3.46's.

I'll be out of town for a week come the weekend, hence the reason why it'll be the following weekend before I perform the CPU R&R.

I have the identical cMP...
What happened?

 

[Auggie]

I have the identical cMP...
What happened?

Regarding the 3.46 swap or the relentless shutdowns?

For the former, I've now had the 3.46's in for about 1.5 months and it's purring like a kitten!

That should also address the latter: ever since the PSU was replaced with a brand new one, it's been trouble-free!

 

[Blakehoo]

Regarding the 3.46 swap or the relentless shutdowns?

For the former, I've now had the 3.46's in for about 1.5 months and it's purring like a kitten!

That should also address the latter: ever since the PSU was replaced with a brand new one, it's been trouble-free!

Thanks! Glad everything is fine...

 

[haralds]

Although it could be a CPU issue, I don't think it's heat related because after being shutdown all night or all day and I turn it, it may still shutdown after a few minutes after boot up.

If there is a component failure causing heat issues, it can overheat in a few seconds.