If given the choice I'd still choose OSX, but the OS is mostly in the background when doing any actual work and some apps perform better under certain environments. Luckily, most (if not all) apps I work with come with installers for multiple operating systems.
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2013 Mac Pro. Wait or buy now?
- Thread starter IamDario
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If given the choice I'd still choose OSX, but the OS is mostly in the background when doing any actual work and some apps perform better under certain environments. Luckily, most (if not all) apps I work with come with installers for multiple operating systems.
Yeah.
Your screen name screams class.----------
Not really. It just seems my opinions are too much for you to handle. I would report you for name calling like you did me(after you baited me), but something tells me I'm the bigger man here.
LOL, well I guess that does answer my question.MacProCard said:Yeah.
I'm just trying to be friendly here and point out that no one is saying you're not entitled to your opinions, but it would be nice if you could express them without implying that other people participating in the discussion are idiots. I can understand that it's sometimes frustrating when other people don't know as much about something as you, or don't see as clearly as you do your opinions... I sometimes get frustrated too, and I attempt to use it as an opportunity to step back for a moment and get some perspective.MacProCard said:
I'm going to take my own advice. Cheers.
LOL, well I guess that does answer my question.
I'm just trying to be friendly here and point out that no one is saying you're not entitled to your opinions, but it would be nice if you could express them without implying that other people participating in the discussion are idiots. I can understand that it's sometimes frustrating when other people don't know as much about something as you, or don't see as clearly as you do your opinions... I sometimes get frustrated too, and I attempt to use it as an opportunity to step back for a moment and get some perspective.
I'm going to take my own advice. Cheers.
You don't think your first post to me was rude? Instead you see it as friendly and helpful?
. You're the one that needs some insight in your life.My point was quite simple in case you missed it. If the current nMP doesn't fit your needs then buy something else.
For the record, I don't consider MacProCard's opinions in this thread to be rude at all. This is a discussion forum. It would be pretty boring if we all thought the same. I value MacProCard's input on discussions because different viewpoints can be helpful, even though I may not agree.
Having different thoughts and expressing them straightforwardly is not being rude.
What is rude (in my opinion) is sidetracking discussions.
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Not expensive per se. I just have a lot of applications I use and they all add up.
Having different thoughts and expressing them straightforwardly is not being rude.
What is rude (in my opinion) is sidetracking discussions.
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Not expensive per se. I just have a lot of applications I use and they all add up.
Thanks. I guess I am somewhat of a straight shooter. And I've never cared much for that herd mentality...especially when I think it's flawed. I guess at heart I'm more Apple than Microsoft.
I wasn't making fun of your predicament. I've seen small medical practices loose upwards of 100k on terrible billing software.
I've been pretty happy with leasing software lately. Adobe CC and Office 365 specifically. If you're in the market, you should check it out.
I guess I'm just too Old School. I want to own my software. That's why I'm still with CS6 (Master Colection). Other software is for illustration / animation / video stuff. To be honest my use is 75% Illustrator/InDesign/Photoshop/Corel Painter with the rest taking up the final 25%. But when I need 'em, I need 'em.
Anyway, when I DO get around to upgrading to the new Mac Pro (maybe next year), I'll also give serious consideration to upgrading to the software leasing model. I'll do it reluctantly.
Sadly, it seems the way the software market is going.
re: losing the Pro market
I wasn't intending my comments as "threats", if that's what you were implying? I'm just pointing out that Apple, themselves, voluntarily made quite a few decisions in the last decade to slowly withdraw from the professional/high-end market, and focus more on small businesses and typical individual users (with small nods to the educational sector here and there).
The long delay in updating the Mac Pro drove a lot of people to the Windows platform if they needed something more capable (USB 3.0 ports, for example), especially with Windows getting the 8 and 8.1 updates which added some capabilities on that side of the OS fence.
The long delay in updating Final Cut Pro, the discontinuation of Apple Shake, and the discontinuation of any rack mountable server products like the XServe (and lack of any real support for technologies like XGrid) further reinforced the trend.
I think we *may* see a slow reversal under Tim Cook's leadership, as he came from an Enterprise background. This promise of working with IBM to develop Enterprise apps is a good example.
As for the "Cloud"? It's far from dead. It needs a LOT of security issues addressed -- but then, so has the Windows OS since its inception, and that didn't stop its widespread adoption!
I wasn't intending my comments as "threats", if that's what you were implying? I'm just pointing out that Apple, themselves, voluntarily made quite a few decisions in the last decade to slowly withdraw from the professional/high-end market, and focus more on small businesses and typical individual users (with small nods to the educational sector here and there).
The long delay in updating the Mac Pro drove a lot of people to the Windows platform if they needed something more capable (USB 3.0 ports, for example), especially with Windows getting the 8 and 8.1 updates which added some capabilities on that side of the OS fence.
The long delay in updating Final Cut Pro, the discontinuation of Apple Shake, and the discontinuation of any rack mountable server products like the XServe (and lack of any real support for technologies like XGrid) further reinforced the trend.
I think we *may* see a slow reversal under Tim Cook's leadership, as he came from an Enterprise background. This promise of working with IBM to develop Enterprise apps is a good example.
As for the "Cloud"? It's far from dead. It needs a LOT of security issues addressed -- but then, so has the Windows OS since its inception, and that didn't stop its widespread adoption!
On top of Thunderbolt v2 being too fresh out of the gate there are techinical issues coupled to infrastructure and Intel's roadmaps.
Thunderbolt v3 is (and extremely likely still is) is coupled to the arrival of Intel's v6 (Skylake) micro-architecture generation (that is after v5 ( Broadwell ) which is after v3 Haswell (which the 2014-15 Mac Pro would be candidate for) . Given the general Broadwell parts aren't coming any time soon ( most of the consummer line up coming in 2015) puts Skylake into 2016 (except for the tablet stuff which isn't getting TB anything ).
TB v3 pragmatically requires a new updated DMI interface between CPU package and the PCH chipset. (i.e., finally moving the PCH chipset's PCIe lanes to PCIe v3)
Haswell and Broadwell are on same tick-tock cycle so not gong to get major DMI/PCH changes. So that nukes TB v3 for most of the Mac product line up.
The Mac Pro's TB controllers sitting on a swtich coupled to a PCIe v3 bus doesn't help for two major reasons.
a. it is a odd-ball, relatively extremely low volume configuration. The Mac Pro has Thunderbolt far more so because the rest of the Mac line up has Thunderbolt; not the other way around.
b. very similar bandwidth issues. If controllers go to 4x PCI-e v3 path then three controllers ( 12x ) sharing just 8x is going to run into a wall. E5 v3 and v4 CPU packages are stuck at 40 lanes. It would be at least Skylake before that goes up (or switches to PCIe v4 ). Once again have to jump into another tick-tock cycle to get a major change in bandwidth.
The current TB v3 leaks and rumors are largely a counterweight to the USB 3.1 leaks and rumors. It is far more a marketing/spin thing now that of practical concern for short term systems planning.
It isn't going to be "as affordable as DDR3", but not particularly crazy high either. [ Note this is DDR4 targeted for overclockers and not ECC ]
http://anandtech.com/show/8326/crucial-ddr4-available-for-preorder-at-overclockersuk
Apple's prices going to be higher since their 30-100% mark-up on already expensive stuff tends to drive things higher still.
The Xeon E5 likely don't top DDR4-2133
http://www.cpu-world.com/news_2014/2014072901_Partial_specifications_of_Xeon_E5-2600_v3_CPUs.html
So even after adjusting for ECC (additional capacity embedded for parity and lower unit volumes ) the increment increase shouldn't be huge.
There is no additional bandwidth for a second one. Adding a switch and diluting the bandwidth is possible..... but to what end? Unless Intel comes out with a new C610 PCH chipset variant that drops SATA bandwidth for PCIe bandwidth, the next gen ( Xeon E5 v3 + 610 series chip ) has the same PCIe bandwidth.
When the PCH chipset goes v3 then two 2x PCIe SSDs could share x4 PCIe lanes quite peacefully.
I wasn't talking about you specifically. Just an observation I had with these buy now/wait later threads. What is a pro market anyways?(it's just a marketing tag) I'm a software developer and it doesn't get more pro than that imo. And I've never had to have a special machine to get my work done because it's all software based anyways. Either the software runs or it doesn't.
The nMP is tightly coupled with FCPX. It's even included in the marketing material on the website. They've created the first video editing CAN. Just like some PCs have created gaming rigs. They've specialized this CAN for the growing FXCP market. Why try to compete with the high-end PC market when you can become the only player in the specialized video editing market?
Just last week the cloud was estimated to lose 50-60 billion because of the Snowden leaks. And imo you're a fool to hand over all your data to a corporation for storage. It's less safe than if it was on your machine.
I don't know if we're still talking about a new Mac Pro update or not, but I agree with the this statement.
It pretty much says it all. There will always be a faster machine coming around the corner, one that is faster by only a margin. The current Mac Pro is the fastest Mac you'll ever be able to buy until the new one comes.
If you need the speed now, get it. If you can and want to hold out, then hold out.
If it's a business expense then you can buy it and upgrade in a year or even lease the machine from a 3rd party.
Actually, it is save for the DDR4 RAM. Going from 12 to 18 cores is welcomed, but even high end heavy iron machines don't max on 6 cores most of the time. Having that many cores helps with virtualization and crunching numbers, and really only helps with shaving off the length of time needed to complete a task.
If the OP is asking us if s/he should upgrade now or wait I doubt there's a need for 12 or even 18 cores.
Storage is welcomed, but has been an ever decreasing concern.
Not to say that none of those improvements are welcomed, just that it shouldn't hold up someone's purchase of a new system.
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To be fair, it's not the first video editing can. Unless you mean 'trashcan' like in design. That's not a slight against the nMP though, I think it's nicely designed.
Avid has had preconfigured rigs for Media Composer, ProTools, and Symphony for decades.
As for the Cloud, I agree, but most laypersons don't have information that's so sensitive that it doesn't need to be in the cloud. That, or it's already there.
I urge most people to keep as much backed up as possible in more than one place. That usually leads me to how they should get two HDDs, and that leads to the price.
Dumping it in some cloud service is far more convenient, and when they object because of security reasons I remind them that banks and credit card companies don't keep their banking and transaction information on one USB2.0 connected Western Digital hard drive connected to an iMac.
It pretty much says it all. There will always be a faster machine coming around the corner, one that is faster by only a margin. The current Mac Pro is the fastest Mac you'll ever be able to buy until the new one comes.
If you need the speed now, get it. If you can and want to hold out, then hold out.
If it's a business expense then you can buy it and upgrade in a year or even lease the machine from a 3rd party.
Actually, it is save for the DDR4 RAM. Going from 12 to 18 cores is welcomed, but even high end heavy iron machines don't max on 6 cores most of the time. Having that many cores helps with virtualization and crunching numbers, and really only helps with shaving off the length of time needed to complete a task.
If the OP is asking us if s/he should upgrade now or wait I doubt there's a need for 12 or even 18 cores.
Storage is welcomed, but has been an ever decreasing concern.
Not to say that none of those improvements are welcomed, just that it shouldn't hold up someone's purchase of a new system.
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To be fair, it's not the first video editing can. Unless you mean 'trashcan' like in design. That's not a slight against the nMP though, I think it's nicely designed.
Avid has had preconfigured rigs for Media Composer, ProTools, and Symphony for decades.
As for the Cloud, I agree, but most laypersons don't have information that's so sensitive that it doesn't need to be in the cloud. That, or it's already there.
I urge most people to keep as much backed up as possible in more than one place. That usually leads me to how they should get two HDDs, and that leads to the price.
Dumping it in some cloud service is far more convenient, and when they object because of security reasons I remind them that banks and credit card companies don't keep their banking and transaction information on one USB2.0 connected Western Digital hard drive connected to an iMac.
To be more fair, the design of the CAN is the most important factor here in it's success. Sure there have been others. Just none with the the likes of Apple backing it.
I disagree on your assessment about the average users data. That information can be scrubbed and profiled. And what they do it with it from there is anybody's guess.
Actual corporate data is far less secure than an individuals. I've seen banking software stored and ran on severs in a residential garage as late as 2005. If shareholders knew about some of the shenanigans I've seen...lol
I've not been about thanks to working my backside off for ages now - is there a more cast iron release date for the haswell e and chipset yet?
It is extremely likely Mac Pro won't use Haswell E. -EP yes , -E no.
Cast in stone? No. If looking for an event where much more info is likely to drop then the other event in on Sept. 9th besides the iPhone dog-and-pony show.
Intel Developers Forum San Francisco '14
http://www.intel.com/content/www/us...an-francisco/2014/idf-2014-san-francisco.html
if not shipping there will be demo boards and talks. That is all probably substantially decoupled from Apple announcing and shipping though.
Especially since the "cast iron" release date for Haswell-E is June 2013. They've been in volume shipment for over a year.
Haswell-EP chips are up for preorder from at least one retailer:
http://www.cpu-world.com/news_2014/2014080502_Xeon_E5-2600_v3_CPUs_are_available_for_pre-order.html
Newegg has DDR4 ECC RAM newly listed on their site as well.
Also, at least one motherboard manufacturer has shown off a new board with the chipset, expected release is the end of August.
You may be confusing "Haswell-E" with the "Xeon E" line CPUs. Haswell-E is a "platform" while Xeon E is just a model.
E.g. the Haswell Xeon E3-12xx v3 CPU you're referring to is not compatible with Haswell-E (which includes the i7 "E" and Xeon "EP", "EN", "EX"). The current nMP uses the EP version of the Ivy Bridge-E platform of course.
We're still waiting for the September release of the Haswell-E platform.
re: Pro market
"Pro" started out as a marketing tag on Apple's part.... a designator to tell you it was one of the more expensive, higher-configuration systems they sold.
EG. Macbook Pro vs. Macbook
I think most people using the term around here, though, have a fairly good general idea of what it means to them. A "pro" user is the same as a "power user" .... someone who does things with their machine that push the limits of cheaper, lesser configured systems.
Software developers are certainly computer professionals, but at the same time? I know plenty of developers who write code targeting embedded systems or older hardware, so aren't in a situation where having a high-end machine is a factor. (In fact, they often desire something older and slower to test their code against, to get a feel of how it will run on the systems they're aiming it at - vs. it running quite well on a new, high-spec computer.)
In my mind, "Pro user" as the term is used on these forums, is typically someone who can cost-justify spending a premium for the best performance possible, because he/she can turn around work faster with it and earn more pay from it. It may also be people in scientific research fields where the task(s) at hand are so processor-intensive, they take painfully long to complete no matter what personal computer is crunching the data.
"Pro" started out as a marketing tag on Apple's part.... a designator to tell you it was one of the more expensive, higher-configuration systems they sold.
EG. Macbook Pro vs. Macbook
I think most people using the term around here, though, have a fairly good general idea of what it means to them. A "pro" user is the same as a "power user" .... someone who does things with their machine that push the limits of cheaper, lesser configured systems.
Software developers are certainly computer professionals, but at the same time? I know plenty of developers who write code targeting embedded systems or older hardware, so aren't in a situation where having a high-end machine is a factor. (In fact, they often desire something older and slower to test their code against, to get a feel of how it will run on the systems they're aiming it at - vs. it running quite well on a new, high-spec computer.)
In my mind, "Pro user" as the term is used on these forums, is typically someone who can cost-justify spending a premium for the best performance possible, because he/she can turn around work faster with it and earn more pay from it. It may also be people in scientific research fields where the task(s) at hand are so processor-intensive, they take painfully long to complete no matter what personal computer is crunching the data.
Cough. I'm not talking about website builders...or your version of a software developer. Besides, by your account any old gamer is a pro.
Real software developers run on high-end systems usually with servers/compilers/ and Databases(DBs) instances all at once. Sometimes multiples DBs instances depending on the data structure/testing environments etc. Some very complex object oriented architecture can be very taxing alone by itself. And none of this takes into account complex data queries that pushes everything to the max and brings the most robust servers to their knees.
Who do you think they build these servers for anyways!? Photoshop!?
Why would you ever want to compile software on an older machine anyways? Do you really mean testing older version of browsers/performance? Either way .Net tackled most of that problem many moons ago.
I may be biased but I doubt many can justify a powerful machine more than a software developer.
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I agree about the can design, I thought you were talking more about having a machine built specifically for FCPX.
It is the first machine custom built for Apple pro apps. Even the older Mac Pros didn't have the luxury.
It's a page they've from Avid and Adobe and HP and it's very welcomed.
That's sad about the data security from other companies.
Glad you here for some insight.
I think it was a brilliant idea from a business perspective. It opens sales to all FCPX users.
It happens. For the longest time IT has had their hands bound by corporate politics and bean counters. You get what you pay for in this field. So I can't complain about it too much because I've made a nice living fixing messes left by others.
It's great that it's optimized for their own software, but I'm not sure the FCPX market alone can sustain sales for a machine like this. Especially when I'd guess the majority of FCPX users are on iMacs or Macbook Pros. I realize they have other apps as well (logic, motion), but they're really going to have to get 3rd party developers on board as well for any sort of longevity.
I bet they've already ran the numbers. All they do is assume (x) percent of all FCPX sales will purchase. Then (x) percent that will after the fact do to design.