https://thestack.com/iot/2016/02/05/intel-william-holt-moores-law-slower-energy-efficient-chips/ Welcome in the future of Internet of Things.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
2016 nMP
- Thread starter ManuelGomes
- Start date
-
- Tags
- nmp
- Sort by reaction score
- Status
You should have directly linked to the URL you find when following the second link:
http://ext3h.makegames.de/DX12_Compute.html
This is an interesting, though rather technical article. If you are not so much into technical details, read at least the conclusion. Calling the current situation a complete mess seem like an adequate description. ;-)
Here is an easy way to expose a biased Apple apologist.
I did a simple search and replace.
"CUDA" became "OSX"
"Nvidia" becomes "Apple"
"AMD" becomes "PC"
"OpenCl" becomes "Windows"
"Compute" becomes "Operating System"
Funny how if Nvidia does it is is BAD, but if Apple does it it is "keeping open standards" or some similar hogwash.
Prepare for a good laugh whilst exposing some serious bias.
The internet isn't sprawling with complaints because people don't know better. If you can't run OSX applications, Apple could ship absolutely anything for Operating System, and the Apple crowd would be singing it's praises even if it was complete garbage because you can't run OSX on PC gear.
The whole reason the OSX crowd can pretend they have better performance is because Apple has created a situation where no one can bench against them. That's why when you bench Windows on Apple hardware, they get creamed. They're shipping an inferior Operating System product, but they're locking the market into that inferior product with OSX, and creating a situation in which they can't actually be benched against PC.
It doesn't matter if Apple is actually shipping worse hardware. The people in this thread will still buy Apple because they're locked into OSX, and they'll be saying "please" and "thank you" the whole way.
It's going to look really bad for Apple if PC's OSX -> Windows converter ends up producing faster output on PC gear, and I think that's actually likely to happen
Last edited:
Who could it be ...???? .... LMBO ??? You can bet nVidia will KILL off any chance we have being able to buy them or ....
But ... No one is off the hook here especially us the consumers. AMD, APPLE, SAMSUNG, were all just human and these HUGE Groups of people. If you want Choice ... better speak up now. We all need to be cheering on Apple to Bring on their own GPU. We need to HOPE Metal takes advantage of ALL Platforms. We need also to be hoping AMD brings it with their new platforms. I watched these last 30 something years as some GREAT's died because they just didn't get it on some level (SGI, SUN, DEC, ....).
[doublepost=1454942302][/doublepost]
I have to agree on some level here with you guys but how does "Everyone Else is doing it" excuse nVidia or Microsoft. But the biggest question of all for me is ...
What the %#%%^^&#@ are you and Tuxon doing here on this forum? Is there NO Windows / nVidia forums out there ...LOL
Try MaximumPC ... it's a Great site.
Last edited:
Actually Most of AMDs technology is open source on the software side, so singling out Apple is just semantics. Even Nvidia uses AMD's open source in games so it will run smoother. Not so much the other way around.
Switching words around does not make it look any more true, just more desperate.
Last edited:
nVidia is pumping out Drivers because they REFUSE to cooperate with anyone but Microsoft. Linus said it all recently when he shot them the Bird. AMD just works as far as I can see without having to ADD Drivers. Why Because Apple did it for us. Why Doesn't Apple just add nVidia Drivers? All this fighting even among us really gets us no where. We need all these companies to have Healthy competition. There needs to be a balance. We NEED each company to have advantages but NOT at the cost of us ... the Consumer. Not an easy task for sure but they all Apple included do a better Job. Let's hope for ALL our Sakes in APPLE Land nVidia not only supports Metal or whatever Apple chooses but that they provide an option in the NEW Mac Pro which I thought was what this was all supposed to be about anyway.
[doublepost=1454943591][/doublepost]Must agree h
Must agree here ... "Desperatly seeking Susan" .. woops ... I mean Susan's approval. Apploval to run nVidia. Approval to Run Windows or something else. Approval to HATE Apple and APPLE Users.
First 2 are easy .... More power to you ... please be Happy. Last 2 .... not so much.
It would be nice if any actual points were contributed here instead another MacStrawMan post about people defending Apple's closed practices.
[doublepost=1454977076][/doublepost]
I'm sure Linus was just annoyed at how the drivers Nvidia was shipping for Linux were just too good and too up to date with the latest standards.
Nvidia's Mac support has always been troublesome. If you think their driver issues are because Apple is handicapping them, just remember who the one signing their web drivers is.
I'm sorry that you didn't understand my post.
It requires a little "outside the box" thinking. By switching the listed words, you can see a funny parallel ebtween your dismissal of Nvidia and overly generous support of Apple. Let me know if I can clarify it for you.
They are your words, nothing more and nothing less. Just WHO they point at has been changed. Very telling actually.
Nvidia has been delivering cutting edge GPUs and OSX compatible drivers.
Apple meanwhile has allowed the nMP fruit to wither on the vine. The Nvidia drivers haven't gained a single new GPU since 10.8.5. 10.8.5
Please explain why Apple deserves a big "High Five" for the rather embarrassing state of affairs? I realize that some folks here are beholden to AMD and Apple and have to praise AMD's "SpaceHeater Deluxe" line of GPUs, but I think the truth stands by itself.
Yes, I know, "Asynchronous Compute" will alter the Earth's spin on it's axis and make us all live happier, healthier lives. But for those of us living in TODAY and NOW, what of Apple's recent GPU moves would you be able to defend as "Good for the consumer"? Beyond the AMD /Apple fan echo chamber and mutual appreciation society, this glowing praise doesn't exist. You guys can keep patting each other on the back all you like, has no effect on the reality.
Don't know if you noticed, Apple just admitted that the Tahiti Space Heaters in nMP are faulty and tend to burn out. Good thing they offered a super duper long recall for them. Can't wait to see the 100C iMac program, can't be far behind. (Now we know why they are the "Red" team, literally glowing from heat)
Apple meanwhile has allowed the nMP fruit to wither on the vine. The Nvidia drivers haven't gained a single new GPU since 10.8.5. 10.8.5
Please explain why Apple deserves a big "High Five" for the rather embarrassing state of affairs? I realize that some folks here are beholden to AMD and Apple and have to praise AMD's "SpaceHeater Deluxe" line of GPUs, but I think the truth stands by itself.
Yes, I know, "Asynchronous Compute" will alter the Earth's spin on it's axis and make us all live happier, healthier lives. But for those of us living in TODAY and NOW, what of Apple's recent GPU moves would you be able to defend as "Good for the consumer"? Beyond the AMD /Apple fan echo chamber and mutual appreciation society, this glowing praise doesn't exist. You guys can keep patting each other on the back all you like, has no effect on the reality.
Don't know if you noticed, Apple just admitted that the Tahiti Space Heaters in nMP are faulty and tend to burn out. Good thing they offered a super duper long recall for them. Can't wait to see the 100C iMac program, can't be far behind. (Now we know why they are the "Red" team, literally glowing from heat)
Sure. Cutting edge. If you don't count important things like stability. Or completeness. But yeah, we'll call them cutting edge.
I, for one, am certainly enjoying less kernel panics since switching to AMD.
Huh? Why is it Apple's job to bundle drivers for cards they never made? No one else bundles the Nvidia drivers with their OSs, but suddenly it's Apple's job to bundle the drivers with their OS?
It's not Apple's job to worry about shipping an OS update and breaking the 900 series GeForce cards. Nvidia's track record with OS updates on the cards Apple did ship was not so great.
If Apple bundles something like the 900 series GeForce drivers with the OS, they take support duty for them because it comes packaged with the OS. They don't want to do that, and I don't blame them.
Being able to use new cards is more or less a byproduct of Nvidia driver updates. One other issue is the bugs in the current (ancient) drivers.
Remember this?
The message from Apple is clear: Forget about upgrading your Macs. In fact, forget about using older Macs, even. We won't bother providing modern drivers for them. Chuck 'em in the dumpster and buy a new one like you do with iPhones every year.
Remember this?
The message from Apple is clear: Forget about upgrading your Macs. In fact, forget about using older Macs, even. We won't bother providing modern drivers for them. Chuck 'em in the dumpster and buy a new one like you do with iPhones every year.
Then why are they signing NVidias web drivers?
We keep circling this thing where supposedly Apple doesn't want Mac Pro owners to upgrade their cards. Yet they're signing Nvidia's web drivers that are using a ton of private API. If they didn't want to do that, they don't have to sign them.
No new devices has nothing to do with Apple trying to block anything. They just don't want to be directly responsible for support for drivers for PC cards during OS upgrades. If Nvidia wants to take on that support (which they are) then they're totally welcome to it.
If there is this vast conspiracy to get Mac Pro owners to throw out their machines then Apple is doing a really incompetent job managing it.
Last edited:
And yet you continue posting things which don't match reality. Doesn't that bother you? Posting things which any sane person can compare to reality and see massive differences?
We don't need any more "AMD has great stuff right around the corner", you guys have been posting it for months (years) now. Why not just wait until they have an actual product?
I would like to point out, for the same and rational, that (and I am not making this up) THE LAST MAC PRO GPU FROM APPLE WAS INTRODUCED IN 2011.
So while we have the Glimmer Twins spouting off about the joys of asynchronous compute and the wonders of AMD yadda yadda, THE LAST MAC PRO GPU WAS INTRODUCED IN 2011.
Why are we being subjected to Appologists claiming that a 2011 GPU is good enough for Apple's "Pro" machine? Can anyone here think for themselves? I hope so.
It's not just the supported cards, Apples drivers are completely outdated. Kepler-based cards profit enormously (performance wise) from the latest web drivers, but Apple never bothered to include them into an OS X update.
Last time I checked e.g. Metro: Redux was completely unplayable on stock Nvidia drivers (even a $3000 2013 iMac would produce a slideshow). Install Nvidia Web Drivers and BOOM, everything smooth, even on a $100 GTX 760.
Of course this applies to other games and serious applications as well.
You could think so, but that's not true. Apple supports the computers they sell (kinda, see above), not any upgrades you install, which might have some basic OS X support. They have lots of GPUs in their drivers they never sold. Some run fine, others don't, none of them are officially supported. Simple as that.
Apple has introduced (buggy) drivers for GCN 1.1 cards in Yosemite (HD 7790, R9 290X, R9 390X, all cards they never sold). Go ahead and file a support ticket because your card is crashing/artefacting. Tell them that they're supposed to fix your issues because the presens of the drivers clearly shows that they want to support them. Would love to see their response.
First of all, I have pinpointed how you act here, in Apple vs Nvidia, and when I did this you posted another post that praises Nvidia, bashes Apple for nMP and AMD for their GPUs. Hmmm.
Like has been said before. AMD hardware is few years ahead of Nvidia. Software on the other side is few years back. The problem is. What can catch up faster? Hardware or software? By the looks of things and few last moths it looks like software and software initiatives from AMD catches up extremely fast.
Pinpoint exact features on hardware level that make Nvidia GPUs cutting edge. All of them.
Maybe that is because they do not want Nvidia hardware on their platform. If you will read Beyond3D forums where GAME DEVELOPERS talked about how Nvidia GPUs are not capable of handling DX12, and are worse than AMD in compute you would change your mind.
Because AMD hardware is few years ahead from Nvidia. DX12 will only extract performance from that hardware, as is seen on Ashes benchmark. And it is without any compute added to the engine. With compute performance of Nvidia cards, because it cannot handle context switching between graphics and compute in Asynchronous Compute Engines will tank even more. If you enjoy slideshows on your green branded graphics with MVC ticket on them - go for them.
Do you even know what role plays asynchronous compute, and how can we benefit from it?
Are you sure the GPUs in Mac Pro are burning, or it fits your agenda?
Like has been said before. AMD hardware is few years ahead of Nvidia. Software on the other side is few years back. The problem is. What can catch up faster? Hardware or software? By the looks of things and few last moths it looks like software and software initiatives from AMD catches up extremely fast.
This is both good and bad news. The bad part is that we may not see an updated nMP until the middle or late in the year. Maybe Apple is getting early access to some too this tech, but I would be very, very surprised if we seen anything other than something that is thinner-and-faster but not a Mac Pro in March. So, maybe June and shipping in August?
http://www.anandtech.com/show/9836/amd-unveils-2016-vistech-roadmap
http://www.anandtech.com/show/9886/amd-reveals-polaris-gpu-architecture
http://www.anandtech.com/show/9836/amd-unveils-2016-vistech-roadmap
http://www.anandtech.com/show/9886/amd-reveals-polaris-gpu-architecture
I hate to say it but given Apple's indifference to anything not related to the iPhone or iPad I would not be surprised if we did not see anything until the summer.
I expect we'll hear something about the MP a WWDC but they can't wait for Polaris to hit the shelves before they do something. I'd imagine that since Apple is getting custom boards they'll be able to swing getting them before they hit the shelves. AMD needs cash bad and Apple has a lot of it
We won't see anything before early summer at WWDC. Intel is coming out with Broadwell-EP early summer and AMD is coming out with polaris over the summer. At this point Apple might as well wait for them. Whats another few months after 2 years without an update, especially if launching an updated version now meant we would be stuck with the current gen technologies for another 2 years.
Apple may get first dibs at AMD's new GPU but don't expect them to have exclusive access. Its too high profile of a part for Apple to get all of them. I don't think this will be too much of a problem though since the mac pro probably doesn't sell in high enough quantities to require that sort of deal. Best case is the new mac pro hits shelves around the same time as the retail version of the graphics card.
If there is any reason for optimism its that AMD has been receiving engineering samples of its new Polaris architecture since last summer with recent rumors pointing towards more production ready samples in the last couple months. It shouldn't be too long before we start getting launch date rumors if they really are that close. It also wouldn't surprise me if we saw polaris show up in the 15" macbook pro first, potentially before summer.
- Status