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rui no onna

Contributor
Oct 25, 2013
14,920
13,264
I can take a screenshot of anything on my iPhone and it’s perfectly clear... on my Android, it’s unreadable! I’ve never had issues like your stating EVER!
That's kinda the point. If everyone in a group chat had iMessage, they all get high quality pictures and videos. If just one person in the group chat had an Android device, then the group chat gets downgraded to SMS/MMS with a maximum file size limit of 300KB-1MB. That may be tolerable for photos but videos are just going to look like a pixelated mess.

We needed a new cross-platform standard to replace MMS years ago. Right now, available messaging options are locked to either operating system (e.g. iMessage) or specific apps (Facebook, Snapchat, WhatsApp, Line, Viber, etc).
 
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macsforever

macrumors regular
Jun 7, 2014
142
42
That's kinda the point. If everyone in a group chat had iMessage, they all get high quality pictures and videos. If just one person in the group chat had an Android device, then the group chat gets downgraded to SMS/MMS with a maximum file size limit of 300KB-1MB. That may be tolerable for photos but videos are just going to look like a pixelated mess.

We needed a new cross-platform standard to replace MMS years ago. Right now, available messaging options are locked to either operating system (e.g. iMessage) or specific apps (Facebook, Snapchat, WhatsApp, Line, Viber, etc).

That’s not an Apple issue.
 

convergent

macrumors 68040
Original poster
May 6, 2008
3,034
3,083
I can’t leave the garden... it’s just too beautiful to behold! I’ve had nothing but awesome results with my Macs and iPhones... I get done exactly what I’m going for. All my friends and fans LOVE my content and most are Apple bashers just like you!

I'm not an Apple basher. Its clear you either are posting without reading the material, or have some kind of comprehension problem. My entire family uses Apple products that I buy for them. I just bought an iPad Pro. I've never said they don't make some good products.

I can take a screenshot of anything on my iPhone and it’s perfectly clear... on my Android, it’s unreadable! I’ve never had issues like your stating EVER!
I don’t know, all I do here is see Apple basing threads and it’s “Mac Rumors” not “Apple Bashers” he he... go to the Android forums with your rants!

Your response has nothing to do with what I posted. I mentioned nothing about screen shots. I am talking about messaging in a group of people where some have iPhones and some don't. What I stated is factual, so the fact that you never had the issue "EVER", doesn't change the facts.

This is the "Alternatives to iOS and iOS Devices" forum. How amazing that you are seeing threads in this forum about things that are not Apple or pro-Apple. Wow... such a surprise. Nothing I said was a rant... you are the one with exclamation points and all caps. I'm sharing an experience... both with Apple and "alternatives". If you aren't interested in that, why are you in this thread.

That’s not an Apple issue.
Who said it was an Apple issue. Again... stay with me on this one... we are in the ALTERNATIVES TO IOS AND IOS DEVICES forum. Not sure why that is hard to understand.
[doublepost=1515012329][/doublepost]
That's kinda the point. If everyone in a group chat had iMessage, they all get high quality pictures and videos. If just one person in the group chat had an Android device, then the group chat gets downgraded to SMS/MMS with a maximum file size limit of 300KB-1MB. That may be tolerable for photos but videos are just going to look like a pixelated mess.

We needed a new cross-platform standard to replace MMS years ago. Right now, available messaging options are locked to either operating system (e.g. iMessage) or specific apps (Facebook, Snapchat, WhatsApp, Line, Viber, etc).

The replacement for MMS is RCS, and is supported by most carriers, Google, and others. Once they can get on the same page and get it fully out in the wild and working with one another, it will be up to Apple to play along or fight it.
 

5105973

Cancelled
Sep 11, 2014
12,132
19,733
I think you are not understanding what I'm saying. The video quality is not just "not good", its horrible. For a video sent from iPhone 8 to Note 8, I am unable to even tell what the video is of. Its unusable. Photos... pixelated and not much use other than a thumbnail. So if its a picture of a funny sign, OK.

The other OEMs and carriers need to align on combating it, because otherwise these groups of low tech "moms" (sorry, not meaning to be sexist... just a use case it applies) are going to push other products vs. iPhones out of the equation and it will be too late. That type of user is not going to take on trying to get all the others to change or install some other app.

There is a solution to this. Most US carriers are starting to roll out RCS - with AT&T its Advanced Messaging. It works from AT&T to AT&T phones that support it. Apple doesn't support it... big surprise. The OEMs and carriers need to quickly align for the use of RCS and put pressure on Apple to add support for it as the drop back for green bubbles instead of MMS. That would alleviate the whole issue and allow iPhone users to continue to use Apple Messages, and communicate with non Apple users who can use whatever messaging app they want and not have the quality issues.

Apple has zero incentive to do this. Everyone else needs to do this in a united way to force Apple to support it.
You describe perfectly the “mom to mom/dad situation” I find myself in. And since these are precious moments shared of our kids lives, like when my daughter is on a ski trip with her friends, the picture and video quality is very important to me. And to the other parents. And there is definitely resistance from these other parents to use any other messaging apps. Even a few parents are not on Facebook due to having security clearances or something that precludes them from having social media accounts, so that leaves FB messaging out, too.

Anyway, I appreciate your post. It’s kind of maddening that using such a stubbornly closed and proprietary communication method works in Apple’s favor. Usually trying to cling to a closed proprietary standard vs more open standards works against the prospects of a company. But Apple is a special case.
[doublepost=1515015900][/doublepost]
I can take a screenshot of anything on my iPhone and it’s perfectly clear... on my Android, it’s unreadable! I’ve never had issues like your stating EVER!
I don’t know, all I do here is see Apple basing threads and it’s “Mac Rumors” not “Apple Bashers” he he... go to the Android forums with your rants!
Eh, we are on an Android section forum. o_O MacRumors is very comprehensive in scope and very accommodating to people who use platforms in addition to those made by Apple.

And the opening post of this thread very clearly indicated we are not here to bash, but to discuss the alternatives to Apple with fellow Apple product owners and explain a bit why we ventured beyond Apple. We are ALL fans/dedicated users of at least one Apple product or we would not be here at all to begin with. But Apple isn’t flawless and has failed to meet SOME of our needs or wants so we’ve had to try alternatives. Which we are discussing. Here in the Alternatives to IOS section of the most excellent MR forum. ;):D
[doublepost=1515016039][/doublepost]
Afaik, no one on this thread is bashing Apple for iMessage. Just pointing out that it's a hurdle to switching to another platform if majority of one's friends and family use iOS devices.
Exactly. iMessage is awesome. It just isn’t designed to play well with Android alternatives. And vice versa.
 

apolloa

Suspended
Oct 21, 2008
12,318
7,802
Time, because it rules EVERYTHING!
Interesting thread, I got my series 1 Apple watch for a Christmas and love it! So kinda tied in with the iPhone, which is alright for me as it works alright.
Tablets we just have iPads, probably the best thing next to the Apple Watch they make IMO, 2 9.7” Pro’s.

I got an Echo Dot 2 for Christmas too and it’s really cool, unfortunately here in the U.K. it doesn’t do as much. I have a Fire TV which I also love but at present, unlike in the US the Dot can’t control it :(

For our routers we have the BT supplied one at the mo, but my Xbox One S doesn’t detect IPV6 all the time, I do have an Orbi system in the cupboard, so may get a decent modem and connect that back up.

I have a PS4 that I don’t use much, an Xbox One S I use a lot and plan on getting a Nintendo Switch.

So I use Amazon for my streaming and Netflix now and then, we also have Sky Q in our house so haven’t cut the cord, I would if I could but a house member loves tennis so no choice at the mo. But the Q system is pretty cool and uses the wireless MESH system built in it for satellite boxes.

Moving forward I may look at some Hues stuff, I’m also hoping the Echo will be able to control my Fire TV at some point.

As for my computer, well it’s a 2010 MacBook Pro that’s a lil knackered, I do plan on getting a new computer but really like the Surface Studio. I don’t think I’ll buy a Mac again, their massive price rise is kinda ridiculous, and yes I know the Surface Studio is silly money.

I only have music on iTunes but don’t use it at all for my TV, I’ll stick to Apple for my iOS devices only I think going forward.

I think I’ll get a iPhone X, but with the recent throttling being announced its knocked my confidence, but I want its camera.

I haven’t used my Time Capsule for years, funnily enough that had to be replaced due to a known issue a few years back, plus I had the power board fail on my first Mac laptop, known issue, then the Nvidia GPU in my current Mac, known issue so a motherboard replacement.
Yeah Apples known issues can get a bit tiring..
 

Makayla

macrumors 6502
Dec 20, 2016
278
300
I have been following this thread with keen interest. Fascinating to see how everyone organizes and gets the best uses out of their smart devices.

Even though I like iPhones and have only ever owned iPhones I have always resisted going too deep into Apple ecosystems. Hubby and I have always had one iPhone and one other between us.

Phone: currently I have an iPhone 8 plus and hubby has an flagship Android. His last phone was a Windows phone which still works and it's fun for me to play with windows mobile OS. . His old Androids are all too old they barely boot up. I still have my old iPhone 4 that I jailbroke and have it running ios 6. I am keeping it as a backup.

Tablets: iPad 3, iPad Pro, a couple of inexpensive Android tablets and a Surface. The only one that gets any significant use is the oldest of the bunch, my iPad 3. I am planning on jailbreaking it but then I am not sure which iOS to bring it to.

Computer: we each have a Lenovo laptop for work. Mine runs Windows 10 and his is running Windows 7. We skipped 8 for good. Used to have a home built desktop but it is now totally obsolete.

Router: Linksys wrt 1900 AC connected to a printer and an external HDD.

Amazon TV: Prime and some free contents. Don't really watch much tv except sports.

Home automation: none

Watch: I don't wear watches. Hubby wears an old fashioned water proof sports watch.

Music: Spotify (free version) and Prime.

Car: no car play or android auto. Old fashioned radio is all we need.


The rest of our families have iPads plus a bit of everything but we all use independent apps that run on all systems. Skype, Facebook, etc. iMessage has no impact on us.
 
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macsforever

macrumors regular
Jun 7, 2014
142
42
I'm not an Apple basher. Its clear you either are posting without reading the material, or have some kind of comprehension problem. My entire family uses Apple products that I buy for them. I just bought an iPad Pro. I've never said they don't make some good products.



Your response has nothing to do with what I posted. I mentioned nothing about screen shots. I am talking about messaging in a group of people where some have iPhones and some don't. What I stated is factual, so the fact that you never had the issue "EVER", doesn't change the facts.

This is the "Alternatives to iOS and iOS Devices" forum. How amazing that you are seeing threads in this forum about things that are not Apple or pro-Apple. Wow... such a surprise. Nothing I said was a rant... you are the one with exclamation points and all caps. I'm sharing an experience... both with Apple and "alternatives". If you aren't interested in that, why are you in this thread.

Who said it was an Apple issue. Again... stay with me on this one... we are in the ALTERNATIVES TO IOS AND IOS DEVICES forum. Not sure why that is hard to understand.
[doublepost=1515012329][/doublepost]

The replacement for MMS is RCS, and is supported by most carriers, Google, and others. Once they can get on the same page and get it fully out in the wild and working with one another, it will be up to Apple to play along or fight it.

You’re not understanding the issues...
 

convergent

macrumors 68040
Original poster
May 6, 2008
3,034
3,083
You describe perfectly the “mom to mom/dad situation” I find myself in.

Thank you!

You’re not understanding the issues...

Really... others disagree.

You are making no sense, other than to disrupt a thread for which you have nothing to add, and no reason to even be in the discussion.
 

Neverbepeace

macrumors 6502a
Jan 14, 2009
794
255
New York
I like the title “walled garden”. I understand all the point of views in this thread. I venture out to android here and there. I always tend to not last much longer then a month before I’m reaching for the iPhone again. I flirted with the Note 8 last month. While I enjoyed most things about it, there were something’s that I didn’t like. Most people who are use to a platform are afraid of change. Once they experience their first “issue” or “difference” that their not use to, they write it off quickly like a bad debt. In essence, they already come in to the situation with a pre determined mind that they are not going to like or accept the change and is waiting on that one “difference” or “issue” to justify switching back over to comfortability. It’s a terrible outlook to have.

The iMessage debate is pretty funny. Mostly everybody I communicate with has iMessage. It does make everything easier. A few days ago, i was in a group chat with 6 people. Somebody had a non iPhone in the group causing it to be the dreaded “green bubble” . Some videos were sent and I’m like . My first response was “who shot this video and what year in the 80’s was it shot in?!?!” It was so dam bad. Now, the people I talk to do not have WhatsApp nor am I willing to convince them to use WhatsApp. Our group chats consist of mostly photos and rarely videos. But the times those videos do pop up occasionally, it is dreadful.

I’m always going to try android. Hell, I’m debating on ordering the 5T in white on the 9th. Both platforms have pros and cons. It comes down to which platforms checks off most on the “pro” list .

P.S

Check out the “dreadful” video quality I am talking about.

F511FCF3-EC4E-4DC4-8C4B-9A4C50D4492B.jpeg
 

The Game 161

macrumors Nehalem
Dec 15, 2010
30,980
20,169
UK
I like the title “walled garden”. I understand all the point of views in this thread. I venture out to android here and there. I always tend to not last much longer then a month before I’m reaching for the iPhone again. I flirted with the Note 8 last month. While I enjoyed most things about it, there were something’s that I didn’t like. Most people who are use to a platform are afraid of change. Once they experience their first “issue” or “difference” that their not use to, they write it off quickly like a bad debt. In essence, they already come in to the situation with a pre determined mind that they are not going to like or accept the change and is waiting on that one “difference” or “issue” to justify switching back over to comfortability. It’s a terrible outlook to have.

The iMessage debate is pretty funny. Mostly everybody I communicate with has iMessage. It does make everything easier. A few days ago, i was in a group chat with 6 people. Somebody had a non iPhone in the group causing it to be the dreaded “green bubble” . Some videos were sent and I’m like . My first response was “who shot this video and what year in the 80’s was it shot in?!?!” It was so dam bad. Now, the people I talk to do not have WhatsApp nor am I willing to convince them to use WhatsApp. Our group chats consist of mostly photos and rarely videos. But the times those videos do pop up occasionally, it is dreadful.

I’m always going to try android. Hell, I’m debating on ordering the 5T in white on the 9th. Both platforms have pros and cons. It comes down to which platforms checks off most on the “pro” list .

P.S

Check out the “dreadful” video quality I am talking about.

View attachment 745651
iMessage really is great.

I’ve gone from mainly using WhatsApp to now pretty much everybody I text has iMessage and being able to message on just my iPad is part of the great ecosystem. Nice not needing my iPhone by me to text. Same with my MacBook. Just nice using these devices together. What makes it the only option for me.
 
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DoctorDoctor

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Jul 14, 2016
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iMessage really is great.

I’ve gone from mainly using WhatsApp to now pretty much everybody I text has iMessage and being able to message on just my iPad is part of the great ecosystem. Nice not needing my iPhone by me to text. Same with my MacBook. Just nice using these devices together. What makes it the only option for me.

Exactly. The way everything works together is unmatched and makes it hard to change. I have tried Android and do every so often but in the end always come back to Apple. And I am not necessarily happy about it either...lol. But it just works so well together. Messages and Find My Friends (for my kids) are 2 services that I miss dearly every time I try Android.
 
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bopajuice

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Mar 22, 2016
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Dark side of the moon
I've been heavily using Apple products for much of the last 10 years, but over the last few years I found that my needs and the direction of Apple diverged. I believe this has a lot to do with Apple's current leadership, but that is just my opinion. The bottom line is that I discovered that its dangerous to be to "all in" with one company to the point of being trapped and at their mercy for your tech future. I got more and more unhappy with each keynote, and each trip to the Apple Store, and during 2017 finally did something about it. At the beginning of 2017 my MacRumors signature was all Apple... a year later its almost all not Apple.

Router - I have used Airport routers for years, and always had good luck. Over the last several years with no updates and the world advancing without Apple, I found that more and more my iDevices were not switching from one Airport to the other and I was getting crap wireless even though I recently had put in gigabit fiber to our house. This prompted me to do testing and discover how bad things were. I ended up replacing the Airports with a Netgear Orbi, and was also able to eliminate a MoCA backbone network due to the fast backhaul wireless on the Orbi. I now get very fast an reliable WiFi in the house and even in most of my yard.

Computer - About 5 years ago my job change took me from using a MacBook Air as my daily driver to having work on Microsoft's platform and home / small biz on a Mac. The MacBook Air got passed down to my daughter and I maxed out a Mac Mini with a Thunderbolt Display on one side of my desk, and my Dell laptop was tied to a similar display on the other side. This worked OK for a while, but when I finally got to Windows 10, and saw that Apple had abandoned my two favorite machines - MacBook Air and Mac Mini, I decided to explore converging. I had always believed touch on a laptop was dumb, but I more and more was intrigued with using a pen for notes in OneNote. Midway through 2017 I jumped in with both feet and got the new Surface Pro to replace my Mac Mini and Dell laptop. The Mac Mini was retired to just backing up my wife's iPhone and iPad. I've really liked the Surface Pro... pen based notes, and a very compact package for travel. My travel backpack weight was cut by about half.

Phone and Watch - My last iPhone was a 6S+ and also an Apple Watch S0 that I used together for 2 years. I waited to see what was to be the iPhone X and wasn't happy with what was announced... no plus size, no FPS, and that notch... and also the headphone jack which caused me to not upgrade the 6S+. Alternatively, there was the 8+, but boring to me as it didn't much new for that much money. I decided to give the Note 8 a try, having only ever tried Android once before (Galaxy S5) and I really hated it. I gave it 6 months and was truly miserable. But with good deals from AT&T on the Note 8 and Gear S3, I decided I had nothing to lose to try it. Other than a little messaging friction with my all iOS family members, I have loved the Note 8, and especially the Gear S3. I was shocked actually that I liked the S3 better than Apple Watch.

Music - With the Gear S3, brought the problem of Apple Music not working with it. A switch to Spotify Family solved this problem and I've found that for discovery and interoperability with all my devices it works great.

Car - Now both of our cars have Car Play and Android Auto. I suppose they both give about the same service, but my wife and I can coexist ... she with iOS and me with Android. But any time there is traffic, Waze is the only way to roll. We both use Spotify for music, so that is roughly the same.

Home Automation - From Black Friday through New Years, I've jumped into home automation with Amazon Echo, Philips Hues, Smart Things Hub, GE Z-wave switches, TPLink Kasa outlets, Nest Protect fire alarms, and we already had a Ring doorbell and stick up camera. What I found so far is interoperability is really important. All that I have I can use on iOS or Android. Had I gone down the path with HomeKit, I'd be locked in.

TV - And over the last week the final piece to the puzzle came into place. I still had an Apple TV latest generation on our main Family Room TV and used an old Harmony One remote. After getting some more Amazon Echos and enjoying multi-room music with Spotify, I bought a Harmony Hub and Elite to replace the One. I experimented with Chromecast, FireTV, Roku, and Apple TV. With Apple TV, the only thing I could control from Echo was just turning it on and off. FireTV was nice, but way to "biased" to Amazon content. The closest to the Apple TV unified search was Roku, and its the more mature of the alternatives. So now the Apple TV is retired until we get a newer TV with an extra HDMI port. We have 3 Rokus, and when on sale again will also had ChromeCasts to each TV as well.

So here's the deal. Nothing wrong with someone wanting to do all of this with just Apple stuff. If you want to go all in on Apple, I'm not going to tell you that you are wrong. But, if you go too far into some of these areas, you are literally locked. A heavy investment into HomeKit automation, or Movie/TV content, and it would very difficult to move. I'm now investing more in open and interoperable stuff. The rest of my family uses iPhones and iPads. For computers, one has a Mac, one has a Chromebook, and one has Windows. We are all so far getting along OK and I think they realize I'm not changing back any time soon.

Hopefully this thread doesn't digress into a bashing and flaming thread like so many, with a few Apple fans trying to take the discussion off on futile tangents. I posted this to share my experience with this transition, to provide info for anyone else considering it, and to hear from others that have done similar.

My exact experience in so many ways. I too started to ween myself off Apple with a better router. I too feel my Mac mini and MacBook Air are starting to show their age.

I use Amazon for my music and movie rentals. Photos is a joke at this point, but I don't know where else to go. You can't transfer your Photos library to a NAS and continue to use it. Photos does not play well with any other program. This is a great example of Apple locking you into their platform. I would have to export 1000's and 1000's of photos to use other platforms or programs.

My next phone will most likely be a OnePlus or Note.

I use a Garmin Fenix 3 watch and it works fine for getting texts, emails, GPS, and tracking my fitness. No need for an Apple Watch at this point. Not to mention my watch is waterproof, not water resistant. If your Apple Watch gets water in it you are at the mercy of Apple's interpretation of their misleading warranty. No thanks.

There is life outside of Apple for those who can look past brand loyalty.
 
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Roadstar

macrumors 68000
Sep 24, 2006
1,723
2,190
Vantaa, Finland
iMessage really is great.

I’ve gone from mainly using WhatsApp to now pretty much everybody I text has iMessage and being able to message on just my iPad is part of the great ecosystem. Nice not needing my iPhone by me to text. Same with my MacBook. Just nice using these devices together. What makes it the only option for me.

For me it's quite the opposite. I used to use iMessage back in the day when Apple's European prices weren't totally out of control and many people I know actually had iPhones. Now I've seen much more traffic away from the iPhone compared to people switching to it, so the mass just isn't there compared to WhatsApp, which doesn't care about which platform you're on. Of course there was also the case of me and my wife switching our communication from iMessage to FB Messenger as by the time of the switch iMessage had some reliability and delay issues and for an instant messaging solution it's quite crucial that the messages get delivered instantly instead of hours late. They're most likely fixed by now as that was years ago, but there hasn't been a compelling reason to switch back to iMessage, especially when I'm moving between iOS and Android.

For any kind of group communication over here WhatsApp is more or less the de facto choice unless it's for an Apple enthusiasts group. Just too many people with Androids (and also Windows Phones back when it was still a thing) around to make it sensible to use an Apple-exclusive solution despite the integration advantages it brings to iPhone users.
 

DoctorDoctor

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Jul 14, 2016
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My exact experience in so many ways. I too started to ween myself off Apple with a better router. I too feel my Mac mini and MacBook Air are starting to show their age.

I use Amazon for my music and movie rentals. Photos is a joke at this point, but I don't know where else to go. You can't transfer your Photos library to a NAS and continue to use it. Photos does not play well with any other program. This is a great example of Apple locking you into their platform. I would have to export 1000's and 1000's of photos to use other platforms or programs.

My next phone will most likely be a OnePlus or Note.

I use a Garmin Fenix 3 watch and it works fine for getting texts, emails, GPS, and tracking my fitness. No need for an Apple Watch at this point. Not to mention my watch is waterproof, not water resistant. If your Apple Watch gets water in it you are at the mercy of Apple's interpretation of their misleading warranty. No thanks.

There is life outside of Apple for those who can look past brand loyalty.

Maybe I do not understand what you mean but in what way does Apple Photos not work with other apps ? I use other apps all the time with both the iOS and MacOS versions of Photos.
 

rui no onna

Contributor
Oct 25, 2013
14,920
13,264
For me it's quite the opposite. I used to use iMessage back in the day when Apple's European prices weren't totally out of control and many people I know actually had iPhones. Now I've seen much more traffic away from the iPhone compared to people switching to it, so the mass just isn't there compared to WhatsApp, which doesn't care about which platform you're on. Of course there was also the case of me and my wife switching our communication from iMessage to FB Messenger as by the time of the switch iMessage had some reliability and delay issues and for an instant messaging solution it's quite crucial that the messages get delivered instantly instead of hours late. They're most likely fixed by now as that was years ago, but there hasn't been a compelling reason to switch back to iMessage, especially when I'm moving between iOS and Android.

For any kind of group communication over here WhatsApp is more or less the de facto choice unless it's for an Apple enthusiasts group. Just too many people with Androids (and also Windows Phones back when it was still a thing) around to make it sensible to use an Apple-exclusive solution despite the integration advantages it brings to iPhone users.
Does WhatsApp allow multi-device use now? Apart from frequent contacts not having it installed, that's one of the reasons I didn't bother to make the switch. I can't use most of those instant messaging apps with the same account on my iPads.
 

Roadstar

macrumors 68000
Sep 24, 2006
1,723
2,190
Vantaa, Finland
Does WhatsApp allow multi-device use now? Apart from frequent contacts not having it installed, that's one of the reasons I didn't bother to make the switch. I can't use most of those instant messaging apps with the same account on my iPads.

Unfortunately not the way I'd wish, that's why I use also FB Messenger as it works pretty much everywhere at same time. WhatsApp has the QR based WhatsApp Web, so I can use it from my desktop/laptop/iPad as well, but it's not as convenient as a proper multi-device support. Still better than nothing, though.
 
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bopajuice

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Mar 22, 2016
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Dark side of the moon
Maybe I do not understand what you mean but in what way does Apple Photos not work with other apps ? I use other apps all the time with both the iOS and MacOS versions of Photos.

Which apps are you able to use?

Say you wanted to edit a photograph stored in Photos using Photoshop. You would need to export it, edit it in Photoshop and then import it back into Photos. If you wanted to make adjustments at a later date, you would need to keep a copy in Photoshop and import in back into Photos every time you wanted to update your Photos library. Correct me if I am wrong.

Photos keeps your original photos buried in some crazy folder layout you have to dig for.

Many programs can't access your photos library or work with it. You can't export or keep your Photos library on a NAS, and still use Photos.

Try importing a Photos library into Lightroom. Not an easy task, and very limited.

Over the years I have exported iPhoto libraries as time goes by. I have iPhoto libraries since iPhoto was released. Try opening an older iPhoto library with the latest version of Photos. It needs to update the library and creates a new library. Not very user friendly.
 

convergent

macrumors 68040
Original poster
May 6, 2008
3,034
3,083
I like the title “walled garden”. I understand all the point of views in this thread. I venture out to android here and there. I always tend to not last much longer then a month before I’m reaching for the iPhone again. I flirted with the Note 8 last month. While I enjoyed most things about it, there were something’s that I didn’t like. Most people who are use to a platform are afraid of change. Once they experience their first “issue” or “difference” that their not use to, they write it off quickly like a bad debt. In essence, they already come in to the situation with a pre determined mind that they are not going to like or accept the change and is waiting on that one “difference” or “issue” to justify switching back over to comfortability. It’s a terrible outlook to have.

The iMessage debate is pretty funny. Mostly everybody I communicate with has iMessage. It does make everything easier. A few days ago, i was in a group chat with 6 people. Somebody had a non iPhone in the group causing it to be the dreaded “green bubble” . Some videos were sent and I’m like . My first response was “who shot this video and what year in the 80’s was it shot in?!?!” It was so dam bad. Now, the people I talk to do not have WhatsApp nor am I willing to convince them to use WhatsApp. Our group chats consist of mostly photos and rarely videos. But the times those videos do pop up occasionally, it is dreadful.

I’m always going to try android. Hell, I’m debating on ordering the 5T in white on the 9th. Both platforms have pros and cons. It comes down to which platforms checks off most on the “pro” list .

P.S

Check out the “dreadful” video quality I am talking about.

That video is pretty typical of what everyone gets in a group thread with someone that has the green bubble.

The first time I tried Android was a Galaxy S5, and I was still too sold out to Apple at that time. It was just like you describe... as soon as I hit resistance, I hated the whole thing and eventually went back. A few years later and I was very ready for something different. But, the Note 8 is truly a world apart from the S5. There is so much about it that I loved, which cause any friction points to be more tolerable.

The total set of friction points - Messages, Family Share Photos, Family Share Music, and Find My Friends. Family Share Photos was solved with Google Photos. Family Share Music was solved with Spotify. We just let Find My Friends go, but there is a similar App available that does the same thing. Messages has been solved mostly with FB Messenger and GroupMe. Everyone in my circles except my wife has FB, and so I use that with them. For our family discussion we use GroupMe. My only complaint about GroupMe is that the icon on my home screen provides no way to see that there are unread messages, so if I miss the notification I don't see it for a while. Strange that they don't have this in the app.
 

TTTedP

macrumors 6502
Nov 27, 2017
348
365
As a fellow fence sitter I am enjoying this thread. I've been 100% Apple since 2007. I was "all in" all the way down to my media purchases and even cloud storage.

2016 was the year I really became disenchanted with Apple. 2017 was my "let's give it one more year". I doubled down and upgraded all my 4+ yr old Apple hardware. I even moved all my files to iCloud, etc. Still, I'm considering getting out.

iOS 11 with it's many bugs and focus on the wrong type of sw developments (IMO) have felt like steps backward (Apple Pay and ARkit are cool but I am referring to the dumbing down of everything, removing power user features and then replacing this with iMessage Apps and p00p emoji's?? This clearly may be my sign to leave). I am honestly just tired of the iOS look. Furthermore, the constant price increases feel like Apple taking advantage of people like me who were "all in" and were traditionally willing to pay. The new laptop is nice but donglemania cost me another $150. If I didn't get it on a major close out pricing, I'd feel gypped. It's beginning to feel like you wait and wait for the next Apple thing, only to be let down. This might be a side effect of years of Apple conditioning and my drug of choice no longer cutting it, but I've started exporting alternates.

Router .... replaced the Airports with Google Wifi. They work fine and was an easy transition. WiFi is faster (Wave 2) and you get a few added parental features which are nice. Tried Ubiquiti as well. Pro set up but overkill for the home user.

Computer .... 2016 rMBP is my main but I have a Surface Pro from work. Overall, it's very nice and feels innovative. It's disappointing to see the inconsistent GUI elements but overall, not a terrible device. It's a great travel companion however, a little less convenient / comfortable to use on the couch than a tablet. I'd have to do a long term test drive but first impressions are good.

Phone .... iPhone X and a Pixel 2. I've had every iPhone and the X truly feels evolutionary. Its a worthy 10 year anniversary device. Period. I love the fact that it has a screen as large as the Plus but in a smaller size. The notch is no big deal. People are reaching on that one. To me, FaceID is the only complaint. Mine seems to have gotten slower over time (could also be me getting more lazy interacting with it). I have a Pixel 2 for a tester and it too is a nice phone and would be fine for a daily driver. The camera is great. I am no photographer so I am not super critical. I just find that I like the look of the photos shot on Pixel over the X. Very sharp. Good low light performance.

My biggest Android complaint and what I find is a barrier to moving is ad-blocking. It is simply infuriating on stock Chrome. Safari is a major plus for the Apple camp. iMessage I can live without. FaceTime has a worthy equal with Duo.

For the Watch - I have a S2 AW. I like the functionality but hate the square look. Always have. I am waiting to see what Garmin shows at CES. A mid-range rumored 645 may do the trick. The Vivoactive 3 has too many complaints right now to consider. Fitibit (not waterproof and no Healthkit) is a non-starter. I think those guys, long term, are done for. If Garmin nails it on their next release, bye bye Apple Watch.

Music & Media .... using Apple Music. I've sampled Google and Amazon. To my ears, Apple Music sound quality seemed better. Still, with all the perks Google Music offers, $ to $ you get a lot and I may still switch. Its small but I really like the lyrics feature in AM. The other hook here is how well Apple Music integrates with their HW. If you are keeping your Apple HW, you should probably just use Apple's SW (applies to music, maps, CarKit, HomeKit.) For Media purchases, I was all iTunes. I am not thrilled about starting over and this is one area where I feel locked in.

Home Automation .... I was all HomeKit and honestly, it works great but you need to have an AppleTV or iPad (again Apple with the up-selling). I wasn't that interested in Google Home or Alexa but received a mini for Christmas. Its ahead of Siri and the list of automations tie in's look great. I can easily transition here.

Car .... None. My car has a proprietary system. One thing I will say is there are more menu items available on it when plugging in an iOS device vs Android. Still, bluetooth sound quality is about the same.

TV ....
my TV has Android and Chromecast built in. It works OK but the apps can sometimes freeze up. I got an Apple TV 4K for Christmas and it's been a PITA. HDMI cables and receiver were not compatible and it was largely a DIY process to figure out. Solved that but now I have other issues. The ATV 4k is slower than the ATV4 it replaced. How do you mess this up?? It frequently has weird picture issues, refuses to sleep and takes 2-3 seconds to transition between apps. It feels like the eptiome of Apple these days > good idea but beta quality feel and execution. One cool feature of ATV is some of your iOS games will transfer. Great for little kids and casual games. Also, if you are using HomeKit and iTunes, the ATV is a great home hub. However the experience of upgrading to the 4k took away all the shine and goodwill. Now I am considering ditching the whole system and going Xbox One X for apps and 4k. I can always use the built in Chromecast as fallback.

Tablets ....
iPad Pro. Though I feel the Pro isn't necessary. I also have the pencil and it lays in the drawer 99.99% of the time. Could've saved $300 here. Still, I dont see a good alternative to the iPad.

The other Apple product I currently love and can't find a worthy replacement? AirPods.
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Messages and Find My Friends (for my kids) are 2 services that I miss dearly every time I try Android.

Find my Friends is a pretty big draw for me as well. I am all about native apps and dont like 3rd party redundancy. I thought FmF would be a problem until someone else pointed out you can have the same thing native in Google Maps.
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Photos is a joke at this point, but I don't know where else to go. You can't transfer your Photos library to a NAS and continue to use it. Photos does not play well with any other program. This is a great example of Apple locking you into their platform. I would have to export 1000's and 1000's of photos to use other platforms or programs.

I know I'm playing pusher here but Google Photos is a very good alternative. You can do a one-time raw export of Apple Photos and then upload to Google. It does take a while to process but once in, it's a nice app to use. I also have a Synology NAS which has some decent alternatives / clones to Dropbox, One Drive, Google Apps and Photos. They're not flawless but pretty good for a NAS OEM.
 

lowendlinux

macrumors 603
Sep 24, 2014
5,460
6,788
Germany
I'm pretty deep into Google (WiFi, Chromebook Pixel, Nexus, Fi, Android Wear) but my OG Chromebook Pixel isn't long for this world I spilled water on it a couple months ago and stuff is progressively not working anymore so I need to decide on whether I'm going to get a Pixel Book or a system 76 Galago Pro one keeps me where I am and one pulls me back a bit.
 
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Roadstar

macrumors 68000
Sep 24, 2006
1,723
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Vantaa, Finland
My biggest Android complaint and what I find is a barrier to moving is ad-blocking. It is simply infuriating on stock Chrome. Safari is a major plus for the Apple camp. iMessage I can live without. FaceTime has a worthy equal with Duo.

It still feels a bit odd to suggest it, but have you tried the Samsung Browser? It supports extensions (including Adblock) at least on a Samsung device and it's surprisingly good:

http://www.androidpolice.com/2017/06/04/samsung-opens-browser-non-samsung-devices-play-store/
 
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