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I greatly appreciate this input you’ve provided! I believe I am in the ballpark of 25gb+ in apps, but yes the majority is taken up by system.

Appreciate you taking the time to share your experiences and tips, this provides much encouragement for this current setup. I think my external solution will need some updating to USB-C/TB3 I’m near future with SSD instead of current hard disks.

On a positive note, I think I may have found a couple reasons for the sudden capacity constraint (down to 14GB free), one of which was my iOS backups, didn’t notice until I backed up my iPhone which is a 256gb capacity. So I relocated and remapped iOS backups to the external.

Also my outlook downloaded my gmail emails, ~100,000 emails. I still need to figure out how to manage this so doesn’t save all of them on my Mac and where I can go to delete these files - I think I’ll remove this account from the application and access via browser instead.

I really do appreciate everyone’s input, great community of people here! I have really missed the Mac world!
[doublepost=1551235519][/doublepost]BTW, I do have multiple user accounts on the Mac, any idea how much additional storage this consumes per user account added?

This is what I suspected was happening when you said that your internal drive had about 40GB free.

Your problem, which is hardly surprising given that you haven't used a Mac in over ten years, is one of data management in a system that promotes synchronisation of data among all devices using your Apple I.D.

The trick here is to treat your internal drive as a place for ~15GB-20GB in apps and the balance as workspace, keeping data on external drives.

If I can make a suggestion, in the beginning get rid of everything else. Turn off iCloud synchronisation completely. Then, once you understand how it works (iCloud is not in fact simple), let a few things back on the internal drive (recent Mail, recent iMessages?) to the extent that you need them and can control their size.

There is no doubt in my mind that you can process RAW photographs and 1080p video, and indeed short 4K video, on a 128GB drive, but it takes some discipline. You kinda have to be ruthless about it.

If it helps any, I have a 512GB drive. I use it solely for apps and as a workspace. I clear my internal drive of unnecessary data almost every day, leaving the internal drive practically empty. It's just the way that I prefer to organise my work/projects. At the start of the day, I like to walk in, preferably with a double espresso, to a clean desk :)

I'm pretty sure that I could get by, except for an occasional need that I have to have an awful lot of data on my internal drive, on 128GB. If you can trade up to 256GB without much financial pain, it would make things easier, but mostly in the sense that you could afford to be less disciplined.

Cheers
 
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I bought a new mini with a 128 SSD. But I meant to that and am happy with it; I don't think it really makes sense to spend a lot on a mini so I bought the cheapest option. I would have had to move my user folders and all my files to an external drive, even if I had bought a 512 SSD, and the 1TB option would have been tight, and no way was I spending that kind of money. Anyway, my system takes up 11.5 GB and I have 10 GB in apps, and have 81 GB left.

I do plan on some day getting an updated external, either NVMe or TB3, and would move my user folders to that (for no fans and silence more than speed).
 
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I bought a new mini with a 128 SSD. But I meant to that and am happy with it; I don't think it really makes sense to spend a lot on a mini so I bought the cheapest option. I would have had to move my user folders and all my files to an external drive, even if I had bought a 512 SSD, and the 1TB option would have been tight, and no way was I spending that kind of money. Anyway, my system takes up 11.5 GB and I have 10 GB in apps, and have 81 GB left.

I do plan on some day getting an updated external, either NVMe or TB3, and would move my user folders to that (for no fans and silence more than speed).
Only in the world of Apple is something so simple made so difficult. Other systems, some significantly smaller than the Mini, have easy to replace SSDs. Only in the world of Apple a replaceable SSD considered a negative.
 
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This is what I suspected was happening when you said that your internal drive had about 40GB free.

Your problem, which is hardly surprising given that you haven't used a Mac in over ten years, is one of data management in a system that promotes synchronisation of data among all devices using your Apple I.D.

The trick here is to treat your internal drive as a place for ~15GB-20GB in apps and the balance as workspace, keeping data on external drives.

If I can make a suggestion, in the beginning get rid of everything else. Turn off iCloud synchronisation completely. Then, once you understand how it works (iCloud is not in fact simple), let a few things back on the internal drive (recent Mail, recent iMessages?) to the extent that you need them and can control their size.

There is no doubt in my mind that you can process RAW photographs and 1080p video, and indeed short 4K video, on a 128GB drive, but it takes some discipline. You kinda have to be ruthless about it.

If it helps any, I have a 512GB drive. I use it solely for apps and as a workspace. I clear my internal drive of unnecessary data almost every day, leaving the internal drive practically empty. It's just the way that I prefer to organise my work/projects. At the start of the day, I like to walk in, preferably with a double espresso, to a clean desk :)

I'm pretty sure that I could get by, except for an occasional need that I have to have an awful lot of data on my internal drive, on 128GB. If you can trade up to 256GB without much financial pain, it would make things easier, but mostly in the sense that you could afford to be less disciplined.

Cheers

Ah, yes, well being that my PowerMac G5 I bought back in 2006 is much outdated (still holding strong) but the world of Mac has certainly come a long way since I have dabbled in it. I was thrilled to moved away from Windows and return to a new Mac machine, its just going to take some getting used to.

I have 29GB of apps, and 31GB system after something researching and cleaning up (removing 200,000+ mail files) and iOS device files. Getting used to the Storage manager feature is going to be helpful.

I think I'll invest some time getting more familiar with iCloud across all devices.

Thanks again for your help, I think I'll stick with this mini and make the best of it!
[doublepost=1551242140][/doublepost]
I bought a new mini with a 128 SSD. But I meant to that and am happy with it; I don't think it really makes sense to spend a lot on a mini so I bought the cheapest option. I would have had to move my user folders and all my files to an external drive, even if I had bought a 512 SSD, and the 1TB option would have been tight, and no way was I spending that kind of money. Anyway, my system takes up 11.5 GB and I have 10 GB in apps, and have 81 GB left.

I do plan on some day getting an updated external, either NVMe or TB3, and would move my user folders to that (for no fans and silence more than speed).


So you have your User Home folders on external drive? How is that working out for you? I have considered doing the same thing to help free up additional space. I figured it would make more sense to do it early on than later before I get into a workflow habit. I have 2 user accounts and my system is at 40GB, if yours is nearly 10GB with user accounts on external, that could help free up another ~30GB for me.
 
I have 29GB of apps, and 31GB system

Getting used to the Storage manager feature is going to be helpful.

You need to get somebody to woodshed you about why you have 29GB of apps.

Don't worry about System. If you're curious about it, do some reading on System and APFS; just don't pay attention to discussions about using Terminal commands to "control" System, because there is in fact nothing that needs to be controlled.

Agree on Storage Manager.

:)
 
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It's not a stupid oversight. There appears to be several people blaming you for a failing of Apple.

It's Apple's fault he chose to get a smaller SSD? I wish they had a LOL reaction to posts. Everyone makes bad decisions when it comes to purchases at least once in their life. That's how they learn. A long time ago I bought a computer for gaming but after a while I realized it didn't have a dedicated graphics card or even a spot for one. I could have blamed the manufacturer for not putting a slot on the motherboard but that would have been silly.
 
I greatly appreciate this input you’ve provided! I believe I am in the ballpark of 25gb+ in apps, but yes the majority is taken up by system.

Appreciate you taking the time to share your experiences and tips, this provides much encouragement for this current setup. I think my external solution will need some updating to USB-C/TB3 I’m near future with SSD instead of current hard disks.

On a positive note, I think I may have found a couple reasons for the sudden capacity constraint (down to 14GB free), one of which was my iOS backups, didn’t notice until I backed up my iPhone which is a 256gb capacity. So I relocated and remapped iOS backups to the external.

Also my outlook downloaded my gmail emails, ~100,000 emails. I still need to figure out how to manage this so doesn’t save all of them on my Mac and where I can go to delete these files - I think I’ll remove this account from the application and access via browser instead.

I really do appreciate everyone’s input, great community of people here! I have really missed the Mac world!
[doublepost=1551235519][/doublepost]BTW, I do have multiple user accounts on the Mac, any idea how much additional storage this consumes per user account added?
One option: If you move your user folder(s) onto an external you won't have any of these issues. The only thing on the internal will be the system and apps.
 
It's Apple's fault he chose to get a smaller SSD? I wish they had a LOL reaction to posts. Everyone makes bad decisions when it comes to purchases at least once in their life. That's how they learn. A long time ago I bought a computer for gaming but after a while I realized it didn't have a dedicated graphics card or even a spot for one. I could have blamed the manufacturer for not putting a slot on the motherboard but that would have been silly.
It's Apple fault for not making the SSD replaceable. I can think of no good reason why this component can't be socket and done so with an industry standard one.

What I find amusing is the excuses some people are willing to make for it. Things like "Why would you want everything on the internal drive?" Answer: Because I bought a SFF system and I'd like to keep it that way. The solutions of moving data folders to an external drive are a kludge to make up for Apple's failure. Isn't the Apple user experience supposed to be "It just work"? Certainly doesn't sound like it when it comes to SSD capacity.
 
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It's Apple fault for not making the SSD replaceable. I can think of no good reason why this component can't be socket and done so with an industry standard one.

What I find amusing is the excuses some people are willing to make for it. Things like "Why would you want everything on the internal drive?" Answer: Because I bought a SFF system and I'd like to keep it that way. The solutions of moving data folders to an external drive are a kludge to make up for Apple's failure. Isn't the Apple user experience supposed to be "It just work"? Certainly doesn't sound like it when it comes to SSD capacity.
It’s made that way because of the small form factor. It’s just like if you get the model with and i3 processor you can’t upgrade to the i5 or i7 later. It doesn’t matter what Apple does someone’s going to complain about it. If they made everything upgradable people would complain about the size. When it comes to computers everything is a trade-off. It’s the same way with them using a desktop processor instead of a mobile processor. It gets hotter so therefore it will throttle down. If they use the mobile processor it would be slower but it wouldn’t throttle as much.
 
You need to get somebody to woodshed you about why you have 29GB of apps.

Don't worry about System. If you're curious about it, do some reading on System and APFS; just don't pay attention to discussions about using Terminal commands to "control" System, because there is in fact nothing that needs to be controlled.

Agree on Storage Manager.

:)

I have more apps than I need or use that take up a few gigs, some I still have yet to learn how to use but glad to have so I can get the chance to learn them when I want. I don’t want to get rid of them lol.
[doublepost=1551276893][/doublepost]
It’s made that way because of the small form factor. It’s just like if you get the model with and i3 processor you can’t upgrade to the i5 or i7 later. It doesn’t matter what Apple does someone’s going to complain about it. If they made everything upgradable people would complain about the size. When it comes to computers everything is a trade-off. It’s the same way with them using a desktop processor instead of a mobile processor. It gets hotter so therefore it will throttle down. If they use the mobile processor it would be slower but it wouldn’t throttle as much.
Yes I made the mistake and blame myself not Apple. But, Apple could be doing better with their machines but they choose to make more money instead. In my opinion the CPU, RAM, SSD, at the very least should all be upgradeable hardware by the user. For me that’s the way computers have always been and should still be, especially desktops. I still enjoy my 13 year old PowerMac G5 for the simple form factor of swapping out hardware. It’s probably the best case design Apple ever made for user accessibility and ease of upgrading. Honestly hope they put that towards the new Mac Pro - that may be a worthy purchase for me in the near future if they do that.
[doublepost=1551277105][/doublepost]
One option: If you move your user folder(s) onto an external you won't have any of these issues. The only thing on the internal will be the system and apps.
Thanks! I’m going to do more research regarding this topic.
 
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To the OP,
I’m still trying to decide what capacity internal SSD to get with a 2018 Mac Mini I plan to use for as long as possible (e.g. 5-10 years). Right now it looks like 256GB is the sweet spot, since I'd get double the capacity and write performance for $200. BUT…

I wonder just how long any of the 2018 Mac Mini internal SSD options will be thought of as cheaper/faster/better than an external TB3 NVMe SSD. IOW how long will it be before the people now recommending larger internal SSDs, start recommending booting from cheaper/bigger TB3 NVMe SSDs? My guess is that this advice switch may only take a year or so, as the cost/GB of external NVMe SSDs drop. So a year from now a Mini with a 128GB internal SSD my not seem like such a bad idea :)

GetRealBro
 
To the OP,
I’m still trying to decide what capacity internal SSD to get with a 2018 Mac Mini I plan to use for as long as possible (e.g. 5-10 years). Right now it looks like 256GB is the sweet spot, since I'd get double the capacity and write performance for $200. BUT…

I wonder just how long any of the 2018 Mac Mini internal SSD options will be thought of as cheaper/faster/better than an external TB3 NVMe SSD. IOW how long will it be before the people now recommending larger internal SSDs, start recommending booting from cheaper/bigger TB3 NVMe SSDs? My guess is that this advice switch may only take a year or so, as the cost/GB of external NVMe SSDs drop. So a year from now a Mini with a 128GB internal SSD my not seem like such a bad idea :)

GetRealBro
Valid speculation, the 128 may not even be an option in few years.. lol. If you think you’ll need the extra space and after having known the speeds of the different SSDs I would have went with 256 as my minimum option. I blew my money on ram and went with 32GB when I should have left that at minimum (upgrade later) and went with storage upgrades instead since it’s not upgradeable, can’t change my mind now.
 
128gb will forever be "tight", but also manageable.

What you need to do:
First, you'll have to exercise self-discipline in keeping the internal boot drive "lean, clean and mean".
That means you'll need at least TWO external drives:
- The first one to serve as "primary external storage" (for important things that won't fit onto the internal)
- The second one to serve as the backup drive for BOTH your internal drive AND your primary external storage drive.

The primary external storage drive ought to be an SSD, perhaps 512gb or 1tb.
The backup drive can be platter-based, 1tb or larger.

I would suggest you partition the backup drive into two partitions:
- first partition of 128gb (this will serve as the backup for the internal SSD)
- second partition, whatever space is left (backup for primary external storage).
- use either CarbonCopyCloner or SuperDuper to create cloned backups of both drives.
Now you have an IMMEDIATELY-BOOTABLE COPY of the internal drive for those "I can't boot!" moments.

What to put on the internal SSD:
- the OS (of course)
- your apps
- your basic accounts
WARNING: I WOULD NOT attempt to move my home folder to another drive. It belongs on the internal boot drive with the OS. But you DO want to keep "the large libraries" elsewhere.

What NOT to keep on the internal SSD:
- your large "user libraries" (such as movies, music, pictures)
- any other large blocks of data
The large libraries will run just as fast from an external SSD. Once set up, you'll never notice that they aren't on the internal drive.

Is this a little work?
Yes, but in the long term it will pay off.

One more thing:
You complained about disappearing free space?
Do you use Time Machine?
If so, STOP USING TIME MACHINE and switch to CCC or SD.
Then, delete local backups and local snapshots
Much of the "missing free space" will magically re-appear!
 
It’s made that way because of the small form factor. It’s just like if you get the model with and i3 processor you can’t upgrade to the i5 or i7 later. It doesn’t matter what Apple does someone’s going to complain about it. If they made everything upgradable people would complain about the size. When it comes to computers everything is a trade-off. It’s the same way with them using a desktop processor instead of a mobile processor. It gets hotter so therefore it will throttle down. If they use the mobile processor it would be slower but it wouldn’t throttle as much.
This is an excuse and not a reason. If the following, significantly smaller form factor system can have a replaceable SSD the Mini can too:


No one is asking that everything be upgradeable. However there is a reasonable expectation that one of the common components (of which a CPU is not) should be upgradeable. This forum has many threads related to the SSD. Discussions from "What should I buy" to "How do I expand storage" to similar discussions. The amount of thought people have to put into what capacity SSD they should get is ridiculous given that it doesn't have to be this way. In fact post #36 is an example of this. I understand why they do it as once they selected an internal SSD capacity they're stuck with their decision unless they want to buy a completely new system.
 
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128gb will forever be "tight", but also manageable.

What you need to do:
First, you'll have to exercise self-discipline in keeping the internal boot drive "lean, clean and mean".
That means you'll need at least TWO external drives:
- The first one to serve as "primary external storage" (for important things that won't fit onto the internal)
- The second one to serve as the backup drive for BOTH your internal drive AND your primary external storage drive.

The primary external storage drive ought to be an SSD, perhaps 512gb or 1tb.
The backup drive can be platter-based, 1tb or larger.

I would suggest you partition the backup drive into two partitions:
- first partition of 128gb (this will serve as the backup for the internal SSD)
- second partition, whatever space is left (backup for primary external storage).
- use either CarbonCopyCloner or SuperDuper to create cloned backups of both drives.
Now you have an IMMEDIATELY-BOOTABLE COPY of the internal drive for those "I can't boot!" moments.

What to put on the internal SSD:
- the OS (of course)
- your apps
- your basic accounts
WARNING: I WOULD NOT attempt to move my home folder to another drive. It belongs on the internal boot drive with the OS. But you DO want to keep "the large libraries" elsewhere.

What NOT to keep on the internal SSD:
- your large "user libraries" (such as movies, music, pictures)
- any other large blocks of data
The large libraries will run just as fast from an external SSD. Once set up, you'll never notice that they aren't on the internal drive.

Is this a little work?
Yes, but in the long term it will pay off.

One more thing:
You complained about disappearing free space?
Do you use Time Machine?
If so, STOP USING TIME MACHINE and switch to CCC or SD.
Then, delete local backups and local snapshots
Much of the "missing free space" will magically re-appear!

Excellent job spelling it all out!
I really didn’t consider how I wanted to manage backups with my external hard drives and I have YET to use time machine (actually never have with other macs either)

I have a 1TB and a 4TB external drive, neither of which are SSD at the moment, that’s my next adventure but probably not immediately.
I am using the 4TB for only the mini. While the 1TB has some backups from my previous PCs and both of my current Macs.
When I get the SSD I’ll set that up as my main external and change my other externals around for extra storage of unused files and backups, clone backups, etc.

Thanks for your advice I appreciate it!
 
This is an excuse and not a reason. If the following, significantly smaller form factor system can have a replaceable SSD the Mini can too:


No one is asking that everything be upgradeable. However there is a reasonable expectation that one of the common components (of which a CPU is not) should be upgradeable. This forum has many threads related to the SSD. Discussions from "What should I buy" to "How do I expand storage" to similar discussions. The amount of thought people have to put into what capacity SSD they should get is ridiculous given that it doesn't have to be this way. In fact post #36 is an example of this. I understand why they do it as once they selected an internal SSD capacity they're stuck with their decision unless they want to buy a completely new system.
You hit the nail right on the head and this is what's held me back from placing an order for the new 2018 Mini. I've come close several times and inevitably I wind up cancelling the order. There's no reason to cripple a major component which has a finite lifespan by soldering it to the motherboard. The reply and the response is well just go buy an external SSD drive and problem solved. And i'm left thinking to myself, why? Why do I have to add more expense to a basic machine just because Apple tweaked the design and engineering in such a way that either gets you to upgrade or you have to spend more to make the unit more functional. For me the sweet spot is the i3 model, the hold back is the soldered SSD and having to spend more on that base model to get around Apple's design games to push you to spend more.

So I continue to use my 2012 Mini in the hopes I can get a few more years out of it before it becomes either a Linux or Windows 10 Mini box. I'm not holding out any hope that my 2012 Mini will see macOS 10.15
 
You hit the nail right on the head and this is what's held me back from placing an order for the new 2018 Mini. I've come close several times and inevitably I wind up cancelling the order. There's no reason to cripple a major component which has a finite lifespan by soldering it to the motherboard. The reply and the response is well just go buy an external SSD drive and problem solved. And i'm left thinking to myself, why? Why do I have to add more expense to a basic machine just because Apple tweaked the design and engineering in such a way that either gets you to upgrade or you have to spend more to make the unit more functional. For me the sweet spot is the i3 model, the hold back is the soldered SSD and having to spend more on that base model to get around Apple's design games to push you to spend more.

So I continue to use my 2012 Mini in the hopes I can get a few more years out of it before it becomes either a Linux or Windows 10 Mini box. I'm not holding out any hope that my 2012 Mini will see macOS 10.15
The 2012 mini is a great little machine I was actually considering getting one before I decided to pull trigger on the 2018.
Main reason was for the i7 6-core cpu. It’s a big discussion and debate with not being able to replace internal SSD. the major part that sucks is when it fails... I have Apple care for this machine, but i wonder when a customer goes into the store and they say “my mini isn’t working”

“Oh sorry you need a new computer, your SSD is dead”
 
The 2012 mini is a great little machine I was actually considering getting one before I decided to pull trigger on the 2018.
Main reason was for the i7 6-core cpu. It’s a big discussion and debate with not being able to replace internal SSD. the major part that sucks is when it fails... I have Apple care for this machine, but i wonder when a customer goes into the store and they say “my mini isn’t working”

“Oh sorry you need a new computer, your SSD is dead”
This wouldn't bother me as long as the cost of repair, if I was paying for it myself, was inline with the replacement cost of the failed part. In addition the replacement would have to be in the same, or better, condition as the system requiring service (which doesn't appear to be a problem with Apple).
 
The thing about managing that space is... as time goes on and more stuff is installed, it just becomes more of a pain in the neck...

Question: Do you really need the i7 over the i5? An i7 w/ 128G is the same cost as an i5 w/ 256G (and the i5's are often on sale). I ask this because while more power is always nice to have, you may be overspending on processor and underspending on storage. Basically, the i5-8500B processor used in the mid range Mac Mini has roughly the same total power as the i7-7700K that's used in the highest end iMac (not the pro). (That's not mentioning that the Mac Mini i7 will thermal throttle under load.)
 
I really didn’t consider how I wanted to manage backups with my external hard drives and I have YET to use time machine (actually never have with other macs either)

For the last two years, I've used both Time Machine and Carbon Copy Cloner. I've grown to really like Time Machine. It just sits there in the background, silently doing its thing, which is exactly what I want it to do.

On a practical level, I don't think that Carbon Copy Cloner has any advantages, except for the following, which is probably of interest to a minority. Time Machine will currently do backups only to a mechanical drive formatted HFS+, whereas CCC can be used to make backups to a solid state drive formatted APFS. I do back up certain files to an SSD, so CCC is still useful to me; but otherwise, I wouldn't bother with it. Not at all sure that I'll be in for the next upgrade.

Your APFS internal drive apparently does snapshots regardless of whether you are using Time Machine. My personal view is that worrying about the size of System/snapshots is a waste of time.
 
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This is an excuse and not a reason. If the following, significantly smaller form factor system can have a replaceable SSD the Mini can too:


No one is asking that everything be upgradeable. However there is a reasonable expectation that one of the common components (of which a CPU is not) should be upgradeable. This forum has many threads related to the SSD. Discussions from "What should I buy" to "How do I expand storage" to similar discussions. The amount of thought people have to put into what capacity SSD they should get is ridiculous given that it doesn't have to be this way. In fact post #36 is an example of this. I understand why they do it as once they selected an internal SSD capacity they're stuck with their decision unless they want to buy a completely new system.
The mini could have done a lot of things differently. Perhaps you should get a job as an engineer at Apple. The computer you linked also has a mobile processor. Perhaps that's something Apple should have considered with the small form factor. Either way the mini isn't for everyone. I love mine though
 
The mini could have done a lot of things differently. Perhaps you should get a job as an engineer at Apple. The computer you linked also has a mobile processor. Perhaps that's something Apple should have considered with the small form factor. Either way the mini isn't for everyone. I love mine though
Here we go with the apologies again with the usual dismal of concerns and the suggest anyone raising them should go do the job themselves. Unless you can give me a solid technical reason why this component cannot be socketed with an industry standard socket you're just making excuses.
 
Here we go with the apologies again with the usual dismal of concerns and the suggest anyone raising them should go do the job themselves. Unless you can give me a solid technical reason why this component cannot be socketed with an industry standard socket you're just making excuses.
The unfortunate fact is that Apple make up a lot of their margins on upgrades like processor, RAM, and SSD.

They could have offered socketed. No question in the same form factor. But they would probably have had to increase base price by 100-200 USD or more to make up for lost upgrade revenue.
 
The unfortunate fact is that Apple make up a lot of their margins on upgrades like processor, RAM, and SSD.

They could have offered socketed. No question in the same form factor. But they would probably have had to increase base price by 100-200 USD or more to make up for lost upgrade revenue.
I agree, which is why I qualified my statement with:

"...technical reason..."
 
I agree, which is why I qualified my statement with:

"...technical reason..."
I strongly doubt there is any technical reason. More likely a purely financial decision.

Basically the socketed HDDs and socketed RAM on the 2011/2012mini have allowed them to live on for 7-8 years. This is terrible if you are Apple.
 
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