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(2019) 16" is HOT & NOISY with an external monitor! :(

applesed said:
seriously..? yet another reason to hold out for ARM : )
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If hardware acceleration is problematic on a fairly standard Intel CPU + AMD GPU platform like the MBP16, I wouldn't have high hopes for a non-standardised (as in: usually bespoke) hardware platform like ARM... There is an ARM Chromium for ARM Ubuntu, but I'm not in a position currently to judge its hardware acceleration. I remember there was somebody on these forums with an NVIDIA Jetson machine, maybe he can test :)
 
Valentin Prugnaud 🦊 said:
Just tried the same configuration (2 external monitors: 43" Samsung Ultrawide Display Port + 27" Samsung HDMI) on my girlfriend work MBP 16, 2.3Ghz CPU, 1Tb SSD, Radeon 5500m 4Gb and 16Gb RAM and the fans are much quieter (around 3000rpm) than my previous config that I returned (2.4CPU, 4Tb SSD, Radeon 5500 8Gb, 64Gb RAM) with the same setup (it was running at full blast all the time, ~5000rpm).
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So the only difference there really is the 2.3 i9?

Based on my test the 2.4 actually does more with less power but if wattage isn't controlled I suppose it will use it? I'm currently trying to switch my 2.3 for a 2.4 but your evidence obviously would indicate that doesn't make much sense.
 
I'll try it out as I mentioned it and have one.

PeterJP said:
If hardware acceleration is problematic on a fairly standard Intel CPU + AMD GPU platform like the MBP16, I wouldn't have high hopes for a non-standardised (as in: usually bespoke) hardware platform like ARM... There is an ARM Chromium for ARM Ubuntu, but I'm not in a position currently to judge its hardware acceleration. I remember there was somebody on these forums with an NVIDIA Jetson machine, maybe he can test :)
Click to expand...
 
I said F*** it. Turned all the switchers / limiters off and I'm going bonanza. 95-100 celsius while working.
Now I feel like I have another Alienware with 2070.
I will let you guys know when / if this thing starts failing.
Apple told me this is working ok so I'm taking their word for it (and closely documenting the whole process).
*AppleCare+ FTW though.
 
Grohowiak said:
I said F*** it. Turned all the switchers / limiters off and I'm going bonanza. 95-100 celsius while working.
Now I feel like I have another Alienware with 2070.
I will let you guys know when / if this thing starts failing.
Apple told me this is working ok so I'm taking their word for it (and closely documenting the whole process).
*AppleCare+ FTW though.
Click to expand...
Turn off all battery saving settings too. Cook that battery. “It’s working as designed!”
 
Hey guys

I'm about to update the studio computer, replacing a desktop Mac and a MacBook Pro combo that I have now, with a single computer for studio and location. Given that the desktop being replaced is a healthily-specced Mac mini, I'm looking for a well-specced laptop.

I'm going with the 16" MacBook Pro, and will opt for 64GB of RAM. That's the easy part!

I am trying to work out what the best spec combination is to minimise the excessive heat and fan noise issues that are clearly plaguing the 16” MacBooks, when connected to an external screen. In my case, I’ll be connecting to an older Apple Thunderbolt Display, so it’s not 4k or 5k. I’m not sure whether that means I’ll be less at risk of the heat and noise problems.

It appears that i9 units are most severely effected (although some feel the i7s are problematic, too), and depending on who you ask, it seems that the problems aren't combined to a specific DAW. It's clear that Logic is affected by these problems, though.

There's also a general anecdotal consensus that these MacBooks usually only produce excessive fan noise and heat when they're used with an external display. Of course, like many of these things, there haven't been any solid analytical tests done - but it does appear that lots of people have suffered these issues with their new MacBook Pro 16".

So. I'm looking for some guidance with my purchase - to try to minimise fan noise and heat to the extent that's possible, by choosing the right specs.

As context: my setup revolves around Logic Pro X primarily, and I use fairly sample-heavy / processor heavy plug-ins like Omnisphere, Superior Drummer, and a number of large orchestral sample libraries from Spitfire. I'm aware that the choice of 64GB of RAM will significantly help with performance from these large libraries.

Anyway - here are my questions.

First: Does the internal GPU make a difference to the way an external screen functions, and the demands placed on the laptop? If I'm choosing between the Radeon 5300M or 5500M (the 5600M is out of my price range), will one of these do a better job of comfortably operating my external display, and minimising fan noise and excessive heat?

It seems pretty simple to choose either, and the pricing isn't wildly different, so I'm keen to understand whether the more powerful GPU (5500M) is more capable at keeping noise and heat at bay. (I'm not overly technical when it comes to graphics, as I don't do video work or gaming.)

Second: How about the processor? The choices I have are the 2.6GHz 6-core i7, the 2.3GHz 8 core i9, or the slight bump to a 2.4GHz 8 core i9. I'm fairly confident that all of these would run the projects I intend to run... so my question relates specifically to fan noise and heat. Does the 2.6GHz 6-core i7 unit run cooler and quieter by nature? Or do the 8-core i9 processors have the edge here? Or are these processors (all from the same 9th generation family) all similar in the circumstances in which they produce heat and noise?
If anyone has experienced both the 6 and 8 core processors personally, and compared them, I'd love to hear your thoughts? (I recall that early in the piece, a few people on here posted about returning 8-core MBP16s and replacing them with 6-core units, to try to deal with excessive fan noise they were experiencing).

If anyone's able to help - either with a better understanding of these spec choices (especially the GPUs - in a music context), or your own first-hand experience with these processors and how hot and noisy they've been when under heavy and light loads, I'd really value your thoughts!

Thanks again guys!
Mike
 
Any lawyers here know if a class action is valid? Seems like that’s the only way to ever get Apple do anything about problems they’re well aware of. It's so ridiculous to spend 3k on a device to have them pretend and deny there's an issue. Petitions maybe? I saw a change.org thing that had about 30k signatures for another Apple oversight concerning their screens.

The core issue would be the gpu power draw.
 
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fixthedamnmac said:
Any lawyers here know if a class action is valid? Seems like that’s the only way to ever get Apple do anything about problems they’re well aware of. It's so ridiculous to spend 3k on a device to have them pretend and deny there's an issue. Petitions maybe? I saw a change.org thing that had about 30k signatures for another Apple oversight concerning their screens.

The core issue would be the gpu power draw.
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What exactly would you be suing them for? Note - me asking this question isn't defending Apple, it's genuine curiosity on what you think you were promised that you aren't getting. I don't really like the noise or heat, but I don't recall Apple promising anything in either of those regards.
 
richpjr said:
What exactly would you be suing them for? Note - me asking this question isn't defending Apple, it's genuine curiosity on what you think you were promised that you aren't getting. I don't really like the noise or heat, but I don't recall Apple promising anything in either of those regards.
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That's why I'm asking any lawyers if there's something that would make a class action viable...

What I thought I was promised upon purchase is an item that doesn't shorten its own lifespan (from overheating) or handicap its own advertised capabilities from typical usage. I don't think that's too much to expect? I'm not sure why some people refer to fan and heat complaints of a 3k device like its an issue of entitlement... especially because I'm pretty sure Apple knows about the issue and is actively denying/ ignoring it. Considering their general level of attention to detail, nothing's stopping me from believing that they knew about the issue even before putting it on the market.

The change.org signatures actually ended up getting Apple to offer repair services for affected screens, when before they were charging $600 to repair screens that were degrading due to their own design flaw- which they also knew about it. Same case with the class action that was filed when Apple throttled older devices without making any mention of it under the guise of performance.
 
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fixthedamnmac said:
That's why I'm asking any lawyers if there's something that would make a class action viable...

What I thought I was promised upon purchase is an item that doesn't shorten its own lifespan (from overheating) or handicap its own advertised capabilities from typical usage. I don't think that's too much to expect? I'm not sure why some people refer to fan and heat complaints of a 3k device like its an issue of entitlement... especially because I'm pretty sure Apple knows about the issue and is actively denying/ ignoring it. Considering their general level of attention to detail, nothing's stopping me from believing that they knew about the issue even before putting it on the market.

The change.org signatures actually ended up getting Apple to offer repair services for affected screens, when before they were charging $600 to repair screens that were degrading due to their own design flaw- which they also knew about it. Same case with the class action that was filed when Apple throttled older devices without making any mention of it under the guise of performance.
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I'm ready for a class action.


I want Apple to listen to our problem.
 
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Sequentialist said:
Hey guys

<snip>

So. I'm looking for some guidance with my purchase - to try to minimise fan noise and heat to the extent that's possible, by choosing the right specs.

<snip>

I’ll be connecting to an older Apple Thunderbolt Display, so it’s not 4k or 5k. I’m not sure whether that means I’ll be less at risk of the heat and noise problems.

<snip>

First: Does the internal GPU make a difference to the way an external screen functions, and the demands placed on the laptop? If I'm choosing between the Radeon 5300M or 5500M (the 5600M is out of my price range), will one of these do a better job of comfortably operating my external display, and minimising fan noise and excessive heat?

<snip>

Second: How about the processor? The choices I have are the 2.6GHz 6-core i7, the 2.3GHz 8 core i9, or the slight bump to a 2.4GHz 8 core i9. I'm fairly confident that all of these would run the projects I intend to run... so my question relates specifically to fan noise and heat. Does the 2.6GHz 6-core i7 unit run cooler and quieter by nature? Or do the 8-core i9 processors have the edge here? Or are these processors (all from the same 9th generation family) all similar in the circumstances in which they produce heat and noise?
Click to expand...

There were earlier reports of the thunderbolt display in clamshell using 18W on the Radeon e.g:
#2,327

I suspect you could get either the i7 or i9 to max out the fan speeds. Looking at the GeekBench scores I see little difference between the 2.3 and 2.4. My 2.3 gets about 10% higher than the scores on GeekBench

If you're prepared to turn off turbo boost or limit the power usage (Volta or voltageshift or similar) you could prevent the fans getting too noisy at the expense of performance.

The only way you'll know for sure is to try it for yourself. If you are worried plan on buying a machine and fully testing it within the return window and return it if you're not happy.
 
brodocon said:
dropped my i9 5500 off at UPS today, once apple receives it they will issue my 5600 upgrade. I have paid nothing for the upgrade.

As a reminder - I had 5 replacements starting with 3 i7 5300 who overheated, apples encouragement to pay more and upgrade myself to the i9 5500, and then a replacement on that (due to constant kernel panic crashes and overheating) and now it has been returned, with a 5600 soon to be shipped.

I was persistent, I will be without a machine for a while, but I have been able to have apple acknowledge it is a problem, and obviously they believe the HBM2 memory does not exhibit the same issues - or why else issue me an 875$ upgrade.

apple won't do anything for you unless you have had at least 3 attempts to fix the hardware, I have on my file 5 apple store visits, all the capture data time spent with the techs and specialists, and the 3 different senior advisors who have said "not ok".

so there you have it. I would not expect you will get the same treatment, unless you have exhausted the same avenues of repair, but, worked out in the end for me I suppose... again. I don't have the new machine in hand yet, so I'm still partially holding my breath!
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@brodocon Please let us know if the upgrade to the 5600M worked out for you! I just ordered my MBP with a 5600M, so I'm interested to know.
 
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fixthedamnmac said:
What I thought I was promised upon purchase is an item that doesn't shorten its own lifespan (from overheating) or handicap its own advertised capabilities from typical usage. I don't think that's too much to expect? I'm not sure why some people refer to fan and heat complaints of a 3k device like its an issue of entitlement...
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Yes, thank you! This says it all!

That said, thank you to all who are still experimenting with different display setups to see what could alleviate the issue. I'm curious now about whether Thunderbolt 3 vs USB-C as the cable could make a difference? Has someone tried a 'pure' Thunderbolt 3 cable to see if the Thunderbolt 3 'plumbing' makes the GPU work as expected?
 
Well, that sucks. I was planning to use it in clamshell, but who knows.. Guess I'll find out in a day or two.
 
dukee101 said:
My experience directly contradicts this. See my earlier report here: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/16-is-hot-noisy-with-an-external-monitor.2211747/post-28682015

Clamshell does not mitigate the issue (at least for 5300M and 5500M GPUs).
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I have the 5300 and in clamshell works with one 1440P monitor through DP - USBC or USBC-USBC with 5w draw.
Tested on regular 27" and 34" ultrawide.
I have no extra settings / adjustments applied at this point.
About 41-44 Celsius idle.
 
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