This thread has been a long one. There is a point I want to make. Even if plugging in the MacBook to an external monitor draws 18-20w of power and the MacBook thermal design is made to withstand a lot more, the fans come up to 2800 rpm. So the problem is only the noise? Because I don't see performance issues in this case. I might be wrong.
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(2019) 16" is HOT & NOISY with an external monitor! :(
- Thread starter Appledoesnotlisten
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I worry about longevity. I like to use my laptops for a decade. I think that most replace after 3-4 years though.
Even I was worried about the same. But if it is working at conditions that are 50% to what it is designed to take, would it really effect the life span of the MacBook?
I mean, if on istats menus I set the maximum fan speed, I won't reach the same speed with the fans and the maximum is 5300 rpm on the Leftside and 4900 rpm on Rightside. I had a 16 i9 5500m and the max fan speed was 5600 rpm for both fans...
I don't know. My 2008 ran for a decade and I did run it hard from time to time but not on a regular basis. My 2014 and 2015s are sometimes run hard for video editing and transcoding and one is fine at 6 years and the other at 5 years. So I don't know. But I'm also running a 2008 Desktop which I'm doing video editing on now and it's still running just fine.
I'm scoping parts for a Desktop build and my focus is on low-power and quality components. The case I'm planning on has plenty of capabilities for fans and I'm planning on a 65-watt desktop CPU (i7-10700).
I would run this next to my 2015 MacBook Pro and would run trading programs and video editing on it. I would run all of my office stuff on the MacBook Pro. I'd use Synergy so that I can control both computers with one keyboard/mouse set.
I would rather stay completely on macOS but Apple doesn't sell hardware that does what I want it to at this time.
Yes that's totally normal. Mine has the same max rpm levels.
Thanks man! So this is the proof that base model is quieter than the i9 model. The Macbook still gets hot but at least it is less louder.
works fine unless you need final cut. Desktops will always sustain load a bit better and max out a bit more. It’s a balancing act of how much you need in a workstation vs portability.
My assumption is that my 2014 or 2015 could die at any moment which is why I have two of them. If one dies, then I get a new one so that I still have two. The odds of both going at the same time is pretty remote. The work from home thing means that a desktop works.
It works for you. But since I have already bought my base model MacBook Pro 16" recently, I want to think that operating at 50% of what the machine is meant for won't reduce the lifespan. But at the same time there are so many threads running related to this problem and I really don't exactly know except some noise what is the problem. If the graphics card is taking power, let it till it isn't reaching it's maximum. Why are people so concerned about this is what concerns me.
"During these difficult times" it's nice to be able to work on a sofa with a big laptop display, then hook it up to upstairs monitors and get millions more pixels and a dozen peripherals to work with, without worries about which apps were open, in which stage, and if the file sync was already complete.
I bought a 16" to replace a late 2014 maxed out 5k iMac. Was spoiled with a Retina display, so had to get an LG 5k to go with it. Turns out an eGPU was also required with those two other monitors, for a silent setup. Now it's portable when it needs to be, quiet and huge when it needs to be. Only one set of Time Machines to take care of, only one Mac to update.
A Raspberry Pi got a promotion to handle some server-style tasks (home automation, file server etc), since the Mac is no longer always on.
Having an expensive desktop Mac and a puny MacBook wasn't optimal, been there, I needed power on the go as well. And having two pro-level Macs is a rather expensive solution. Not that these computers are ever cheap...
True, it was primarily noise for me. When the bottom is at 2800...3000 RPM, the top will be reached much faster as well. Trying to concentrate at 4000...5000+ RPM when working with medium intensity tasks was just plain annoying.
Graphics performance with 3 monitors was OK. Not stellar, but pretty good. An eGPU (580) further accelerated multitasking and scrolling. There's now never a hiccup, even with 3 monitors loaded with multiple apps in multiple spaces. Lots of headroom, butter smooth interactions. Worth it? That's questionable, but it is very enjoyable now.
Actually, it is normal for CPU usage to ramp up even if you literally aren't doing anything on your Mac.
Long story short, Mac OS is a bit aggressive when it comes to indexing, and if, like me, you generate smaller files on a regular basis, the system will chew through CPU power like nothing.
Not a lot of people would know that they have to mark certain folders as not needing spotlight. In my case, I only unmark Desktop, Documents and Downloads, and I make sure to mark everything else. This indexing is an issue even with super fast SSD.
No, the problem is not only noise.
Under maximum sustained load, the 16" MacBook allows a maximum power draw of around 90 - 95W. The screen and other components typically take up about 5W, so that leaves 90W for both the CPU and GPU to draw.
Max turbo boost on the Core i9 can easily draw 130W, which is only allowed for a short amount of time, and then it has to drop down to whatever the system allows it to draw. That means...
If the GPU is drawing 5W, I'm allowed 85W of sustained (longer than 30 minutes) CPU load. That translates to about 3.0 - 3.1GHz on my Core i9.
If the GPU is drawing 20W constantly regardless, I'm only allowed 70W of sustained (longer than 30 minutes) CPU load. That translates to about 2.6 - 2.7GHz.
TL;DR: "losing" 15W to the dGPU means I'm losing 15% CPU performance when thermal and noise are not a concern at all.
And you can bet that when the dGPU is drawing 55W that the CPU can only draw max 35W. This is observable both in Windows (Bootcamp) and Mac OS. The CPU has to drop below base clocks in this case in order to not exceed the 95W power draw limit.
Note: the 6-core i7 is not going to do much better here. Intel's CPUs are designed to draw as much power as they can in order to boost performance. You can mitigate some of this by disabling Turbo Boost, but even then, when the dGPU is drawing max power, the CPU will still drop below base clocks.
This. 100% this all day. @antipodean basically summarizes the whole thread. 13" MBPs are handling the same workloads as our 16"s with far less heat and fan noise, despite 16"s having dGPUs and higher-clocked CPUs. Makes no sense.
If anyone has tips for getting Apple to replace an AppleCare-protected months-used 16" (5300M/5500M) w/ a 5600M model instead, let us know.
Is this mainly due to the 10th gen Intel?
I just ordered an i7-10700 to build a cool and quiet system.
Umm... what?
This is a 147-page, 3665-post thread. What exactly are you trying to insinuate?
What "concerns" me is that I can't - practically - use my laptop with its lid open at the same time as I use an external monitor. It makes my hands sweaty. My sweaty hands concern me.
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Have had my 16” i9 2.4 32gb 5500 8gb since May and just tried it on an external 4K display for the first time. Fairly instant fan ran ramp up with insignificant CPU increase. Really interesting.
My 2015 MacBook Pro with Discrete is driving a 4K, QHD and the internal monitor with a YouTube video running. Temp is 56 degrees with fan speed at 3,291 RPM. I'm also running Mail, Notes, Growly Notes, emacs, Reminders and Calendar. A 4K monitor on its own shouldn't spin up the fans.
I have the 16" MacBook with the defective Radeon 5500M GPU and have the standard power draw / fan noise / overheat problems. I disabled Turbo Boost on the CPU (with Turbo Boost Switcher Pro), and have it enabled automatically for select programs only. Clamshell mode helps, but I wanted to keep the lid open.
So now I use a DisplayLink USB dongle or dock to completely bypass the Radeon GPU.
These are a few options out of many:
or anythink with a DL-6000 series chipset
www.displaylink.com
I can play light games like AoE2 DE at native 1080p@60Hz, with a 4K and a 2K monitor attached to the Stardock displaylink dock, and this completely avoids the heat and power draw problems. Power consumption is 15-50 Watts. Radeon High Side is at 0 Watts. No need to pay for an expensive eGPU or the 5600M, unless you need 4K HiDPI @60 Hz resolutions or do graphically intensive tasks.
(I'd have no problem paying for the $700 Radeon 5600M upgrade, but I do not want to reward Apple's incompetence... Especially since they blocked Nvidia and I cannot use my $3000 Titan V eGPU for CUDA.)
So now I use a DisplayLink USB dongle or dock to completely bypass the Radeon GPU.
These are a few options out of many:
WAVLINK USB 3.0 and USB-C Dual 4K Display Laptop Docking Station,5K/Dual 4K @60Hz Docking Staion Dual Monitor for Windows and Mac,(2 HDMI & 2 DP, Gigabit Ethernet, 6 USB 3.0,Audio)
WAVLINK USB 3.0 and USB-C Dual 4K Display Laptop Docking Station,5K/Dual 4K @60Hz Docking Staion Dual Monitor for Windows and Mac,(2 HDMI & 2 DP, Gigabit Ethernet, 6 USB 3.0,Audio)
www.amazon.com
StarTech.com USB-C & USB-A Dock - Dual Monitor 4K 60Hz Dock DisplayPort + HDMI - Hybrid USB 3.0 Docking Station for USB-C/USB-A Laptops - 6x USB Type-A, GbE - USB 3.1 Gen 1 - Mac/Windows (DK30A2DH)
This dual-4K docking station offers wide flexibility in setting up your workstation, working with both USB-C and USB-A port laptops and supporting multiple combinations of Ultra HD 4K DisplayPort and HDMI monitors. Enhance Productivity with Dual-4K 60Hz Video Ideal for highly detailed graphics ap...
www.amazon.com
Plugable USB-C Dual 4K DisplayPort Adapter with Gigabit Ethernet for Windows (Supports Two DisplayPort Displays up to 3840x2160@60Hz, Windows 10, 8.1 & 7).
The Plugable USB-C Dual 4K DisplayPort adapter allows you to connect up to two additional displays that support up to 3840x2160@60Hz resolutions each, as well as a gigabit Ethernet port. Our adapter is compatible with most modern Windows laptops, desktops and tablets that have a USB Type-C or Thu...
www.amazon.com
Plugable USB-C Dual 4K HDMI 2.0 Adapter with Gigabit Ethernet for Windows (Supports Two HDMI Displays up to 3840x2160@60Hz, Windows 10, 8.1 & 7)
The Plugable USB-C Dual 4K HDMI 2.0 adapter allows you to connect up to two additional displays that support up to 3840x2160@60Hz resolutions each, as well as a gigabit Ethernet port. Our adapter is compatible with most modern Windows laptops, desktops and tablets that have a USB Type-C or Thunde...
www.amazon.com
Plugable USB 3.0 to HDMI Video Graphics Adapter with Audio for Multiple Monitors up to 2560x1440 Supports Windows 11, 10, 8.1, 7, XP, and Mac
Performance Featuring the DisplayLink DL-3500 chipset, the Plugable UGA-2KHDMI graphics adapter lets you connect an additional HDMI display up to 2560x1440@50Hz (lower resolutions at 60Hz) to your Windows-based laptop, desktop, tablet, or Mac 10.14+ systems via USB 3.0 to enable multitasking with...
www.amazon.com
WAVLINK USB 3.0 to HDMI Display Adapter,4K Ultra HD Video Graphic Adapter with Audio for Multi Monitor up to 3840 X 2160,DisplayLink Chipset DL5500,Support Windows 10/8.1/8/7
WAVLINK USB 3.0 to HDMI Display Adapter,4K Ultra HD Video Graphic Adapter with Audio for Multi Monitor up to 3840 X 2160,DisplayLink Chipset DL5500,Support Windows 10/8.1/8/7
www.amazon.com
DisplayLink Products | Synaptics
Where to buy DisplayLink productsDisplayLink technology appears in a wide range of products from the world's leading PC and peripheral brands. It features in docking stations, monitors, adapters, and more.Products with DisplayLink technology are supported on Windows, macOS, Android and Chrome OS...
I can play light games like AoE2 DE at native 1080p@60Hz, with a 4K and a 2K monitor attached to the Stardock displaylink dock, and this completely avoids the heat and power draw problems. Power consumption is 15-50 Watts. Radeon High Side is at 0 Watts. No need to pay for an expensive eGPU or the 5600M, unless you need 4K HiDPI @60 Hz resolutions or do graphically intensive tasks.
(I'd have no problem paying for the $700 Radeon 5600M upgrade, but I do not want to reward Apple's incompetence... Especially since they blocked Nvidia and I cannot use my $3000 Titan V eGPU for CUDA.)
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The problem is much more serious than just noise.
First, the power draw of the GPU + CPU exceeds 100 Watt under load. Even an old, light video game like AoE2 in BootCamp can trigger this. There is not just unnecessary overheating, but battery starts to discharge, while plugged in. I lose 30-50% of charge after half an hour of light gaming, with the macbook plugged to an outlet. This causes obvious longevity problems for the battery and the whole laptop. Apple's planned obsolescence is obvious by design here, and it's getting quite disgusting.
Second, this extreme power usage is completely avoidable, even an Intel GPU or a DisplayLink USB adapter chip can handle such a light video game, but the Radeon 5500 M consumption jumps to 60 Watts, and leaves no power or thermal headroom for the Intel CPU to Turbo Boost properly. This does not only drain the battery, but also makes the CPU thermal and power throttle, significantly hurting its performance.
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This is happening as well to me…
Just bought a new MacBook Pro 16'' from 2019 with Radeon 5500M 4 GB.
As soon as it get connected to an external monitor the graphic card just go crazy and start using 18W.
This cause an huge overheating and battery draining super fast. Not able to use the laptop more than 1h if connected to the external monitor, without any other app open and with CPU and RAM at almost 0%. In case the laptop is at 100% and with charger attached, the battery is anyway drained to 95/96%. Unbeliveble!
I tried different monitors (HD, Full-HD, 4k), different HDMI cables and different adaptors. Nothing change.
The issue is there, is quite evident and it's happening to a lot of customers.
I'm honestly quite upset of seeing thousands of people reporting this issue (as well on the AMD support forum) and Apple giving no answers about it. In addition, speaking at the phone with their support center, they were absolutely unable to give me a reply or a solution aside from "ah yeah, the model could have an issue. Return it and you will be refunded."
Is not about fan noise. Is about poor overheating and ridiculous battery life just to connect the laptop to an external monitor.
I'm an Apple customer since 10 years and I never experienced such a poor designed product.
I start a Twitter post to push a bit Apple to pay attention to such huge problem: https://twitter.com/luca_pipolo/status/1303403330673291267?s=20
Please, retweet and like it. Perhaps they will listen to us!
Just bought a new MacBook Pro 16'' from 2019 with Radeon 5500M 4 GB.
As soon as it get connected to an external monitor the graphic card just go crazy and start using 18W.
This cause an huge overheating and battery draining super fast. Not able to use the laptop more than 1h if connected to the external monitor, without any other app open and with CPU and RAM at almost 0%. In case the laptop is at 100% and with charger attached, the battery is anyway drained to 95/96%. Unbeliveble!
I tried different monitors (HD, Full-HD, 4k), different HDMI cables and different adaptors. Nothing change.
The issue is there, is quite evident and it's happening to a lot of customers.
I'm honestly quite upset of seeing thousands of people reporting this issue (as well on the AMD support forum) and Apple giving no answers about it. In addition, speaking at the phone with their support center, they were absolutely unable to give me a reply or a solution aside from "ah yeah, the model could have an issue. Return it and you will be refunded."
Is not about fan noise. Is about poor overheating and ridiculous battery life just to connect the laptop to an external monitor.
I'm an Apple customer since 10 years and I never experienced such a poor designed product.
I start a Twitter post to push a bit Apple to pay attention to such huge problem: https://twitter.com/luca_pipolo/status/1303403330673291267?s=20
Please, retweet and like it. Perhaps they will listen to us!
Is this a Bootcamp problem only? I play Company of Heroes 2 (definitely amore demanding game than AOE 2 regarding performance) in macOS with my MBP 16" Base model in 2560x1440 on my external monitor without any problems. Power supply via original 96W Apple Power Adapter. No discharging and temps at around 70C.
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Will the i7 model get less hotter than the i9? How exactly does the displayport fix it and does it help significantly? Even that is a $100 investment for a clunky dongle. I really like the single cable USB C setup that I have, but sucks that we have to do these barbaric workarounds.
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exact model specs?
I hope they do. They've edited your post on the Apple Community forum and removed the twitter link.