2022 BCN Awards: A Look at the Camera Industry in Japan (Which Has an Impact On Worldwide Sales, Too)

[kenoh]

Fuji was always a curiosity, but they didn’t have a reasonably-light long lens…until they came out with the 70-300. Only problem is availability. Seems like you can’t find it anywhere, and it’s a long wait to order one. I’d like to see more hands-on reviews from everyday folks before going I would want to go all-in.

If it helps, the only real reason I moved away from them was I couldn't motivate myself to learn Capture One and LR was mangling the images. LR has been made to work now so when I go back to look at the images I wonder why I switched again - this time to Nikon. I have no regrets moving to Nikon, the Z6 (first gen) is a great camera but now looking back at the images I got, I really didnt need to switch systems and I was completely overtaken by the hubbub about the artefacts from lightroom.

What I still miss is the muscle memory of the physical dials and simple things like the countdown on the long exposures and decent weather resistance, then lets not forget the brilliant implementation of timer mode for dialling in long exposures.

There is a lot to like there.

 

[Clix Pix]

Interesting discussion! Yes, I daresay that the overall financial picture for Nikon is significantly better than it was a year ago, and that is good news, both for the company and for its customers. With its new Z9 it is really in the game now, and that is good news for everyone because that will keep the other manufacturers on their toes, innovating and creating and bringing out even better gear as time goes on.

 

[mollyc]

Interesting discussion! Yes, I daresay that the overall financial picture for Nikon is significantly better than it was a year ago, and that is good news, both for the company and for its customers. With its new Z9 it is really in the game now, and that is good news for everyone because that will keep the other manufacturers on their toes, innovating and creating and bringing out even better gear as time goes on.

The point is that it was never bad....just clickbait headlines that get repeated ad naseum. "Professional training" notwithstanding, your bias shows in nearly everything you post.

 

[Clix Pix]

Contrary to what you apparently think, I really do not dislike Nikon. I used and loved their cameras for many, many years. That is why I was so keenly disappointed when they released the Z series and it became very clear very quickly to me that they were not providing the system that I had been expecting and hoping to see, nor was the "roadmap" they offered then particularly encouraging, either. I suspect that there were many others who felt similarly.

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

If it helps, the only real reason I moved away from them was I couldn't motivate myself to learn Capture One and LR was mangling the images. LR has been made to work now so when I go back to look at the images I wonder why I switched again - this time to Nikon. I have no regrets moving to Nikon, the Z6 (first gen) is a great camera but now looking back at the images I got, I really didnt need to switch systems and I was completely overtaken by the hubbub about the artefacts from lightroom.

What I still miss is the muscle memory of the physical dials and simple things like the countdown on the long exposures and decent weather resistance, then lets not forget the brilliant implementation of timer mode for dialling in long exposures.

There is a lot to like there.

Yeah, I was tempted when the X-T4 dropped down for the holidays. There’s a lot about that camera that I like. Now it’s back up in price.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

While I can't speak for Molly, last year at roughly this time we were talking about poor Nikon dying based on a click-bait titled and speculation-focused article from petapixel. This year, there still seems to be some of that talk from the very same website - not quite the death march from last year but it's still there. Nikon Imaging wasn't in danger of dying then and it's certainly not in danger of that happening now. BCN isn't really a bellwether of the global camera industry, at least anymore. Too, it's only a snapshot of the big-box camera sales in Japan, a notoriously unique market. It generally doesn't reflect medium to higher end equipment for example. Most of us aren't walking into BestBuy to pickup a Sony A1 or Nikon Z9 or a new 400mm lens.

Volume sales are only a piece of the puzzle. If you're selling a lot of low-end, low margin gear, it means less than selling higher-end, higher-profit gear. Nikon did a tremendous amount right in 2021, not least of which is producing what people are calling their best camera ever in the Z9, which is (I hear) selling really well. My local camera store says they've never seen this volume of sales on a flagship camera by any company ever - by a long way (apparently). There are anecdotes like that from around the US. They've delivered an innovative, professional camera that has desirable features that set them apart from competitors. They continue to put out superb optics. They're working more with third-party vendors such a Profoto and (apparently) with Tamron on options for their customers.

Nikon Imaging isn't about to die and they aren't currently in danger of doing so. Sony and Canon are doing great. Fuji is doing great in its market sector (APS-C and 44x33 MF), we'll see how the new incarnation of OM does. Panasonic seems to be holding its own. The biggest challenge right now facing all manufacturers is supply chain logistics to meet demand.

You are absolutely correct. Now, I am a Canon user, but the Z9 by itself is an impressive camera. While the body is expensive, Nikon photographers who already have high quality F-mount lenses can still use these "best lenses" with this camera, and save a fortune. The FTZ-II adapter allows for mounting nearly any F-mount lens on this and other Z-series cameras (over 90 AF-S and AF-P type D, E, and G-type lenses).

Canon accomplished the same as Nikon in relation to the production of lens adapters that allow for mounting most Canon lenses on the R-series cameras. These adapters have allowed me to continue using my Canon and Tokina lenses on my R6. Besides that, I can still use the lenses on my DSLR canon cameras as well.

Trying to keep up with the technological bells and whistles by switching to other camera systems can be quite expensive. Well, if one is very wealthy one can do things like that day in and day out, but the learning curve of the new system can be steep and time consuming (often a waste of time). Still, the gear is not going to make anybody a better photographer.

 

[r.harris1]

Interesting discussion! Yes, I daresay that the overall financial picture for Nikon is significantly better than it was a year ago, and that is good news, both for the company and for its customers. With its new Z9 it is really in the game now, and that is good news for everyone because that will keep the other manufacturers on their toes, innovating and creating and bringing out even better gear as time goes on.

I think it's safe to say that Nikon are not only in the game but have changed the game to some degree. Most sites earn money by clicks so they need to come up with headlines that make people do just that. That's why we get the "I've ditched <whomever> for <some other whomever>" (with lots of yellow and red YouTube fonts, or "<Some Company> is going to go out of business" or whatever. They need clicks to generate that ad revenue. I feel it is important to be as fact-based as we can be in "post fact" times. Each company is struggling in different ways. It's a hard life out there. It's important to understand where each company derives revenue. In Japan, it's an interesting mix of how companies do just that. It's very different than how it is here in the US, for example. Nikon are very big players in the sensor fab space - including for Sony - as an example.

 

[Clix Pix]

Definitely times have changed over the years, and marketing/advertising and subsequent revenues have changed as well. I'm probably one of the few people who does not waste time with watching YT videos with various "influencers." I have other ways of obtaining the information I want about products in which I am interested.

Actually, speaking of "fact-based," I am pretty sure that over the years it has been Sony who has manufactured sensors for Nikon and other camera companies rather than the other way around.....

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

I've never really been able to get into review videos. It doesn't help that many of these reviewers use an image of them making some goofy face, with product in-hand, along with some "provocative" question in bold text as the lead-in. It strikes me as unprofessional, as if I might as well be taking advice from Lloyd Christmas. As the audience's attention span decreases, desperation increases, I suppose.

If one can spare the time, finding a good forum about the product/market is a much better approach, IMO. Ask real people who choose to use the product willingly about it. Sure, there's fanaticism, but that can usually be detected. The honest folks will tell you the pros and cons, and walk you through how to set up your gear.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

Definitely times have changed over the years, and marketing/advertising and subsequent revenues have changed as well. I'm probably one of the few people who does not waste time with watching YT videos with various "influencers." I have other ways of obtaining the information I want about products in which I am interested.

Actually, speaking of "fact-based," I am pretty sure that over the years it has been Sony who has manufactured sensors for Nikon and other camera companies rather than the other way around.....

Samsung, Sony, Canon, Nikon also make sensors. Canon usually makes its own sensors, and so a few of the smaller camera manufacturers. Nikon has been using Sony sensors in recent years, but I have no idea about the New Z9's sensor.

Image Sensors: The Main Battleground of the Camera Industry

A look at how image sensors have become crucial to camera companies and how it is all about designing and manufacturing them.

petapixel.com

 

[r.harris1]

Definitely times have changed over the years, and marketing/advertising and subsequent revenues have changed as well. I'm probably one of the few people who does not waste time with watching YT videos with various "influencers." I have other ways of obtaining the information I want about products in which I am interested.

Actually, speaking of "fact-based," I am pretty sure that over the years it has been Sony who has manufactured sensors for Nikon and other camera companies rather than the other way around.....

Yes, for sure. It’s absolutely a fact that Sony Semiconducter builds sensors to spec for a lot of camera companies, from Sony Imaging to Phase One to Fuji. It’s a funny old world though. Nikon often makes the equipment that companies like Sony Semiconductor use to fabricate the sensors they sometimes sell back to Nikon (who typically design the sensor) or the other camera manufacturers. When it’s not Tower Semiconductor, for example. It’s a very, very small closely knit world in Japan. Too, sensors are certainly very important, but the overall imaging pipeline, color science, etc is where a lot of the innovation takes place. Expeed, Nikon’s post sensor processing engine, is where much of the goodness of the z9 comes from. Likewise Bionz for Sony. Or Phase One’s FPGA engine.

 

[kenoh]

Yeah, I was tempted when the X-T4 dropped down for the holidays. There’s a lot about that camera that I like. Now it’s back up in price.

Fear not, Fuji discounts are like the seasons. You can guarantee it will come back around again…. Next one will be around Easter. Gives you time to work out your first lenses.

One thing though, when you buy one, if you get it during one of their cash back sales, be sure to take a picture of the webpage or the ticket in the store. They refused to honour cash back on my 16-55mm because they claimed I bought it from an unofficial reseller (3rd party on Amazon). So just be sure to grab proof you were shown the offer.

Watch the promotions page so you know what is active.

https://fujifilm-x.com/en-gb/promotions/

Lol… sorry….. I know I am being naughty tempting you.

 

[kenoh]

Contrary to what you apparently think, I really do not dislike Nikon. I used and loved their cameras for many, many years. That is why I was so keenly disappointed when they released the Z series and it became very clear very quickly to me that they were not providing the system that I had been expecting and hoping to see, nor was the "roadmap" they offered then particularly encouraging, either. I suspect that there were many others who felt similarly.

I moved away from Sony as I got tired of the relentless upgrade and refresh cycle with little to no firmware support and also shocking after sales care. Originally I bought into the Sony system when there were only 3 lenses to choose from. This then encouraged me to explore the amazing selection of legacy lenses out there with adapters - this obviously led me to Leica but let’s not go there ha ha…. Anyway, I think I must be wired different because when the Z series cameras were announced I was immediately interested as we had an original manufacturer made adapter at the time of launch which unlocked decades of lenses. Also, as the sheeple who didn’t understand the adapters and how they do not affect image quality were selling off their F mount lenses in favour of new shiny S mounts, I was able to get a great lens load out at a fraction of the cost (why didn’t they call it Z mount by the way?). At the end of the day, physics dictates that a 70-200 or a 100-400mm is always going to be a chunky lens as is a fast 50 with AF etc. Not AS chunky but still not Leica 50 svelte.

Don’t get me wrong, Sony is a great system, the world has shown that but I just cannot stop thinking Sony is a computer with a camera attached and the rest are cameras with a computer inside.

At the end of the day, everyone gets to choose there tools and the key in understanding the tools time and again we see a “pro” with a middling camera wipe the floor with an amateur with all the gear. I don’t think there is a bad camera out there now is there?

I mean even a Holga! On paper it reads like why would you? Plastic lens, leaks light, no real focus yet there are devotees out there who create absolute magic with them.


What was the question again? ?

 

[mollyc]

(why didn’t they call it Z mount by the way?)

It is Z mount. But the crackpot Nikon marketing team initially failed to mention that the S-Line is really the same as the gold ring lenses, or Canon L mount. The S lenses are higher quality. There are non-S Nikkor Z mount lenses now, but the initial drop of Z mount lenses were all S-Line, so people mistakenly started calling them S mount.

 

[mollyc]

Samsung, Sony, Canon, Nikon also make sensors. Canon usually makes its own sensors, and so a few of the smaller camera manufacturers. Nikon has been using Sony sensors in recent years, but I have no idea about the New Z9's sensor.

Image Sensors: The Main Battleground of the Camera Industry

A look at how image sensors have become crucial to camera companies and how it is all about designing and manufacturing them.

petapixel.com

Rumors say Tower makes the Z9 sensor, but I'm not sure that has been confirmed.

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

Fear not, Fuji discounts are like the seasons. You can guarantee it will come back around again…. Next one will be around Easter. Gives you time to work out your first lenses.

One thing though, when you buy one, if you get it during one of their cash back sales, be sure to take a picture of the webpage or the ticket in the store. They refused to honour cash back on my 16-55mm because they claimed I bought it from an unofficial reseller (3rd party on Amazon). So just be sure to grab proof you were shown the offer.

Watch the promotions page so you know what is active.

https://fujifilm-x.com/en-gb/promotions/

Lol… sorry….. I know I am being naughty tempting you.

Good to know at least. Seems most manufacturers have regular sales. The down side is that with inflation and supply issues, the current round of sales on many of the usual suspects had the final price at $100 more than the last sale.

 

[Clix Pix]

I moved away from Sony as I got tired of the relentless upgrade and refresh cycle with little to no firmware support and also shocking after sales care. Originally I bought into the Sony system when there were only 3 lenses to choose from. This then encouraged me to explore the amazing selection of legacy lenses out there with adapters - this obviously led me to Leica but let’s not go there ha ha…. Anyway, I think I must be wired different because when the Z series cameras were announced I was immediately interested as we had an original manufacturer made adapter at the time of launch which unlocked decades of lenses. Also, as the sheeple who didn’t understand the adapters and how they do not affect image quality were selling off their F mount lenses in favour of new shiny S mounts, I was able to get a great lens load out at a fraction of the cost (why didn’t they call it Z mount by the way?). At the end of the day, physics dictates that a 70-200 or a 100-400mm is always going to be a chunky lens as is a fast 50 with AF etc. Not AS chunky but still not Leica 50 svelte.

Don’t get me wrong, Sony is a great system, the world has shown that but I just cannot stop thinking Sony is a computer with a camera attached and the rest are cameras with a computer inside.

At the end of the day, everyone gets to choose there tools and the key in understanding the tools time and again we see a “pro” with a middling camera wipe the floor with an amateur with all the gear. I don’t think there is a bad camera out there now is there?

I mean even a Holga! On paper it reads like why would you? Plastic lens, leaks light, no real focus yet there are devotees out there who create absolute magic with them.


What was the question again? ?

My timing was good when it came to Sony, as I pretty much missed most of the early trials and tribulations. When I bought my Sony NEX-7, at the time I purchased three lenses to use with it and for whatever reasons never got around to buying more. I was vaguely aware as different new E-mount lenses were announced for the APS-C cameras but most of them weren't all that appealing to me.

Since at that time I still had and was using my Nikon gear I wasn't particularly interested in Sony's A-mount bodies and lenses. In the end that all paid off. When Sony made the move to FF mirrorless bodies with E-mount/FE-mount I watched with casual interest, but wasn't really thinking of making any changes in my gear. It wasn't until later on, when things started to really accelerate in the direction of mirrorless technology that I began paying more attention. Even at that it took well over a year before I actually made a permanent shift wholly into mirrorless.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

Rumors say Tower makes the Z9 sensor, but I'm not sure that has been confirmed.

Several recent articles about cameras and sensors I have read seem to indicate or forecast the camera manufacturing future as being the software and computer inside the camera (software and processing power).

 

[Clix Pix]

That makes sense to me; more emphasis on AI and such, for one thing.

 

[r.harris1]

Several recent articles about cameras and sensors I have read seem to indicate or forecast the camera manufacturing future as being the software and computer inside the camera (software and processing power).

I think in a sense, I would say that's always been more important (sorta-kinda anyway). The sensor does certain limited things really well but it's what happens after it that is the bigger part. The faster those electronics can run after the data has been read off of the sensor, the more interesting things can be done, from AF magic to many other tricks and to Clix's point - AI, subject recognition, eye AF, etc. That's why camera manufacturers are always touting Expeed or Bionz or what have you - all of those things happen post sensor. Now the technology of the sensor, such as "stacked", etc, help that post processing, so don't get me wrong, it's very important, but...

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

I just don’t know how well that will stand up, unless they offer the photographer a lot of control over how the camera processes images. I think smartphones get away with “doing it all for you“ because most users expect it. Photographers are a different lot. It’s not just taking the picture, but coming home to play around with it and apply their own style in post. As smartphones gain in capability, the more I see this being a differentiator for ILCs. Personally, I don’t know how much I’d want my camera doing that for me. I can get on board with sensor shift for more resolution, but I already have that! Now back to Fuji, this is what they do with their film simulations. From what I gather, if you shoot RAW, you can apply any of their film sims in post at the computer. Shoot jpg, and you’re stuck with whatever sim you chose to shoot with.

 

[mollyc]

Yes, at present, I can't imagine wanting to add computational stuff to my big camera photos. I won't rule it out completely, mostly because it hasn't all been invented yet, so maybe down the road there will be things I'd like to do in camera. Maybe easier double exposures (or at least let me do DEs in raw not jpeg!). But I much prefer having control the whole way through. I don't even use auto-ISO! And really only the tracking AF modes if I am doing self portraits or sometimes my dog. Otherwise I still use single point.

Of course, I'm also in the midst of going back to film, so I'm clearly not a prime target for computational stuff.

 

[r.harris1]

I just don’t know how well that will stand up, unless they offer the photographer a lot of control over how the camera processes images. I think smartphones get away with “doing it all for you“ because most users expect it. Photographers are a different lot. It’s not just taking the picture, but coming home to play around with it and apply their own style in post. As smartphones gain in capability, the more I see this being a differentiator for ILCs. Personally, I don’t know how much I’d want my camera doing that for me. I can get on board with sensor shift for more resolution, but I already have that! Now back to Fuji, this is what they do with their film simulations. From what I gather, if you shoot RAW, you can apply any of their film sims in post at the computer. Shoot jpg, and you’re stuck with whatever sim you chose to shoot with.

Yes, totally. I'm with you myself. I prefer as much control as I can muster, I'm not too interested in animal AF, etc. I mostly want the post sensor stuff to read off the data quickly, maybe help me with focus stacking or what have you, but that's the extent of it. I prefer "Actual Intelligence" as opposed to the artificial kind.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

I just don’t know how well that will stand up, unless they offer the photographer a lot of control over how the camera processes images. I think smartphones get away with “doing it all for you“ because most users expect it. Photographers are a different lot. It’s not just taking the picture, but coming home to play around with it and apply their own style in post. As smartphones gain in capability, the more I see this being a differentiator for ILCs. Personally, I don’t know how much I’d want my camera doing that for me. I can get on board with sensor shift for more resolution, but I already have that! Now back to Fuji, this is what they do with their film simulations. From what I gather, if you shoot RAW, you can apply any of their film sims in post at the computer. Shoot jpg, and you’re stuck with whatever sim you chose to shoot with.

It will be both by the use of the software in-camera, and also the camera manufacturer's software used at home. For example, I could set my R6 for HDR photography, or even for it to analyze and record perspective-if taking photos of high risers (for example), plus several other things. Then at home I can use Canon's DPP to edit the photos, take care of the degree of perspective I desire, and so on. The options are on the camera's menus, however. In addition to this, software developers are "just" slightly behind the camera AI software development, and adding the same controls DPP has over Canon cameras and lenses. This is done across the board in relation to all cameras on the market, not just Canon's.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

Yes, totally. I'm with you myself. I prefer as much control as I can muster, I'm not too interested in animal AF, etc. I mostly want the post sensor stuff to read off the data quickly, maybe help me with focus stacking or what have you, but that's the extent of it. I prefer "Actual Intelligence" as opposed to the artificial kind.

Good points. However, setting such a "animals, eye focus, tracking, spot and other metering modes, people," and "automobile" are optional on the menu. You don't have to set the camera to do any of that for you. But lest say that you have to take several photos of a person or a bird that is moving around, but still want to keep the focus point on the person plus the eyes and only have a few seconds to do it; in this case manually can be quite difficult to achieve. Some of the late DSLRs incorporate eye focus and tracking, and now perfected-are incorporates on the newer mirrorless cameras. Canon just added an option to ID and track vehicles, but I am certain that other companies will do the same for use on both still and video photography.

Every new camera out there has manual and automatic settings one can use, and so most AF/M lenses. Even the use of IS and IBIS are optional.