MP All Models 2023 Mac Pro! [MERGED]

[MisterAndrew]

Very disappointing. Same design, RAM has gone from 1.5 TB to 0.2 TB, no ability to add graphics cards. It’s Mac Studio with card support.

That really puts the loss of RAM into perspective.

 

[Longplays]

Sell it to who? You?
How about making something upgradable? Ya know, like they did for DECADES.

On MR or eBay?

If you want upgradeable you may want to make it a legal requirement.

 

[MisterAndrew]

Sell it to who? You?
How about making something upgradable? Ya know, like they did for DECADES.

It is upgradable. You just trade it in for recycling and fork over $7,000+ to Apple every year.

 

[Apple Knowledge Navigator]

For anyone interested in what the backside of the computer looks like...

What was the slotted RAM area is now a space for the SSDs and two heat sinks from the underside of the M2 Ultra SoC. The horizontal module (between them) features the internal speaker. The chip on the south-eastern quadrant may be the PCIE controller?

 

[Jethro!]

A 'pro' machine is one that enables a professional to do their job appropriately. Apple uses the phrase 'Pro' entirely as a marketing term, and whilst I don't agree with how they use it sometimes, it's still clear what demographic this machine is aimed at. Apple knows this relatively small market enough to satisfy their needs, and my guess is that they have direct relationships with the majority of these customers.

This "pro" doesn't throw away his money on disposable machines. Pretty sure I'm not alone.
Apple's demographic now seems to be their own navels. They have great relationships with them.

$7,000 gets you a machine that is significantly more capable than the equivalent Intel version - even if you spent the extra money on the Intel machine to match the price...

Then you throw it away.
If I were a betting man I'd put my money on the 2019 MP's having a longer lifespan than this new one. And that's what a true "pro" will want -- more $$ in my pocket; less in Apple's.

 

[Jethro!]

It is upgradable. You just trade it in for recycling and fork over $7,000+ to Apple every year.

Truth!

 

[Apple Knowledge Navigator]

This "pro" doesn't throw away his money on disposable machines. Pretty sure I'm not alone.
Apple's demographic now seems to be their own navels. They have great relationships with them.

They're a business, they can design and release whatever they like. If you don't like it then vote with your wallet.

Then you throw it away.
If I were a betting man I'd put my money on the 2019 MP's having a longer lifespan than this new one. And that's what a true "pro" will want -- more $$ in my pocket; less in Apple's.

Then keep a 2019 MP... Problem solved.

 

[PowerMike G5]

If I were a betting man I'd put my money on the 2019 MP's having a longer lifespan than this new one. And that's what a true "pro" will want -- more $$ in my pocket; less in Apple's.

Yeah as long as they continue to support the OS on intel, the 7,1 MP will continue to have a longer lifespan. Core computing upgradeability has been taken out of this 8,1 MP. Which means the only way to increase its power in the future is literally buying its future successors, with all he Apple tax premium that will be applied to that. This iteration alone had a $1000 increase at base. This would normally feel fine if it seemed like a clear upgrade across the board, but this 8,1 feels like a lot of trade-offs with the 7,1.

I bought an off the shelf 6800 XT and doubled my GPU compute for like $500. The MP group has generally always been about expandability. Its unfortunate you can't do that anymore, with the PCI slots seemingly relegated to specialized cards now.

 

[SymeonArgyrus]

I would love to know the sales numbers for the MPX modules; I'd also love to see some sort of configuration survey of 7,1 Mac Pros.

As a techy at heart, I'd love to see non integrated GPU support added to Apple Silicon, as well as some sort of pro processor upgrade option.

I'm not sure it makes sense for Apple, though. I know that the older expandable Macs had a very very low rate of addition/expansion; I believe that was bandied about quite a bit when the trashcan Pro came out.

For me, I started with a Iicx, then a Quadra 610, then a Sawtooth G4, then a Mac Pro 1,1, before eventually swapping over to to the MacBook line. Of those all, only the Sawtooth ever got substantial internal upgrades, beyond storage/memory expansion and swapping the video cards.

That's why it would be interesting to know what percentage of the newest Mac Pros have actually been upgraded. I know for some people it is a vital thing, and I know there are serious communities around the cheese graters, dedicated to keeping them as accessible and updated as possible.

 

[goMac]

I would love to know the sales numbers for the MPX modules; I'd also love to see some sort of configuration survey of 7,1 Mac Pros.

My guess is not super good. But Apple always handicaps themselves.

7000 series was a major performance bump, and we won't likely see MPX modules for that. The MPX pricing was also just kind of absurd.

I think if the prices were a few thousand lower for the top end, and there were 7000 series modules, there would have been some decent sales.

Apple always does this thing were they do one revision, and no one trusts them because they only ever do one revision, and so Apple cuts the product after one revision. It's just a self fulfilling prophecy at this point.

Now they've done it again where they promised everyone MPX was the future and once again cut it after one version. At this point it's just completely foolish to invest in any Apple proprietary thing.

 

[jasonmvp]

I bought an off the shelf 6800 XT and doubled my GPU compute for like $500. The MP group has generally always been about expandability. Its unfortunate you can't do that anymore, with the PCI slots seemingly relegated to specialized cards now.

I'm still not grokking all of the bitching with respect to this move with the Mac Pro. We've known since the launch of AS that this was going to happen. The technically delusional among us hoped beyond hope (hopium, it's called) that Apple would somehow de-couple the GPU and VRAM from the SoC, thereby continuing to allow GPU updates. But that wasn't ever going to happen. Hoping, praying, or believing otherwise was setting oneself up for disappointment.

Apple's made it clear, since the original M1: fully-enclosed SoCs are what Macs are going to be made for the foreseeable future. That means no more external GPUs or swappable CPUs, etc. The PCI-E slots in the new one are for storage and ancillary cards that actual professionals need to use.

Am I defending Apple's choice? No. Can they get the same throughput and performance breaking the SoC apart? Probably not, and they likely don't see the use in it. It sucks, but this is what we knew was going to happen.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

Not sure if I'm agreeing or disagreeing here, but the point is that the Mac Pro is NOT, and has never been Apple's halo product. Its now a niche product for people who'd be happy with a Mac Studio if they could just connect a couple of specialist PCIe cards (not GPUs) to it. Even the 2019 was of zero interest to anybody who wasn't already committed to Mac.

Looking at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo_effect#Marketing the first example cited is the iPod.

For the modern Apple, the iPod and subsequently iPhone are the "halo" product. Before that, the original iMac. Before that, we're back to a different Apple that pioneered desktop publishing and was a major force in nonlinear video editing - but even then I'd argue that the "halo product" was the classic Mac, not (say) something high-end like the Mac IIfx.

Now, I think, Apple are betting the farm on Vision Pro being the next halo product.

Another "halo" candidate is Apple Silicon - and the showcase for that is probably the MacBook Air or maybe the Mac Studio where it offers a lot of processing power in a small, low-powered package. Apple Silicon lets Apple build everything from an iPad to a Studio Ultra (plus their goggles) out of just two underlying dies (Mx and Mx Max).

The new Mac Pro is getting a distinctly "meh" reaction because it is nothing to write home about compared to a Threadripper tower with multiple NVIDIA or AMD high-end GPUs because it's not the ideal use of Apple Silicon technology. The alternative would have been for Apple to sink a huge amount of investment into an ARM-based Xeon/Threadripper contender just for the Mac Pro. They've never put that much into a Mac Pro before - Apart from the Trashcan they were just Xeon towers with - in the case of the 2019 - some nice PCIe plumbing refinements.

We disagree. Your break down of the breakdown the analogy with corvettes breaks down.

Again, people that typically buy/drive the Porsche Cayenne have no concept what the hell a 911 GT2RS is. They do not need to. That's not how halos work. That Porsche is known as having that prowess is enough to affect the halo effect.

The Mac Pro VERY MUCH is apple's halo product.

 

[prefuse07]

View attachment 2213870 For anyone interested in what the backside of the computer looks like...

What was the slotted RAM area is now a space for the SSDs and two heat sinks from the underside of the M2 Ultra SoC. The horizontal module (between them) features the internal speaker. The chip on the south-eastern quadrant may be the PCIE controller?

If you (or anyone else) is interested in a direct comparison between the two, please CHECK THIS POST

My theory since the the unveiling is -- Will Apple offer current 7,1 owners the option to "buy in" and upgrade to an AS LoBo, since they appear to be direct-swaps, with all remaining hardware able to be kept?

 

[jasonmvp]

The Mac Pro VERY MUCH is apple's halo product.

No, I think you're misunderstanding my statements. The Pro is not a halo product for Apple. No Mac has been since the i* devices were introduced. And saying this:

Again, people that typically buy/drive the Porsche Cayenne have no concept what the hell a 911 GT2RS is.

Is just a complete misunderstanding of the entire auto market. Most Porsche Cayenne owners absolutely know what the rest of Porsche's line-up is. Many of them probably want a GT3RS or GT2RS but can't afford them.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

No, I think you're misunderstanding my statements. The Pro is not a halo product for Apple. No Mac has been since the i* devices were introduced. And saying this:



Is just a complete misunderstanding of the entire auto market. Most Porsche Cayenne owners absolutely know what the rest of Porsche's line-up is. Many of them probably want a GT3RS or GT2RS but can't afford them.

No. I guarantee you a huge number of my gf's friends who have Cayenne have NO IDEA what a 911 GT2RS is. You have no concept of that demographic, IMO.

 

[jasonmvp]

No. I guarantee you a huge number of my gf's friends who have Cayenne have NO IDEA what a 911 GT2RS is. You have no concept of that demographic, IMO.

Your opinion doesn't matter here. I'm very much aware of the demographic because I'm IN said demographic. I just don't own or drive a hopped-up Volkswagen. I slap them around on the race track. Saying Cayenne owners have no idea what a GT2RS is is the height of ignorance in this specific discussion.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

Your opinion doesn't matter here. I'm very much aware of the demographic because I'm IN said demographic. I just don't own or drive a hopped-up Volkswagen. I slap them around on the race track. Saying Cayenne owners have no idea what a GT2RS is is the height of ignorance in this specific discussion.

I equally assert the same about your opinion.

You cite yourself. I have the reality of about 6 or 7 of my friends girlfriends/wives. You're outnumbered and you have been dismissed.

 

[jmho]

The 8.1 is definitely the Cayenne of Mac Pros lol.

Maybe even a Macan.

 

[SymeonArgyrus]

7000 series was a major performance bump, and we won't likely see MPX modules for that. The MPX pricing was also just kind of absurd.

I think if the prices were a few thousand lower for the top end, and there were 7000 series modules, there would have been some decent sales.

Apple always does this thing were they do one revision, and no one trusts them because they only ever do one revision, and so Apple cuts the product after one revision. It's just a self fulfilling prophecy at this point.

That makes a lot of sense. Apple would do well to lay out a transparent roadmap for the Pro segment.

One thing that didn't I haven't seen a lot of comment on, from the WWDC keynote, was Mr. Cook saying that the transition to Apple Silicon was complete. I suppose this means no iMac Pro for now, either. Or maybe there will be. We don't know, though. Transparent roadmap would be nice.

 

[prefuse07]

That makes a lot of sense. Apple would do well to lay out a transparent roadmap for the Pro segment.

One thing that didn't I haven't seen a lot of comment on, from the WWDC keynote, was Mr. Cook saying that the transition to Apple Silicon was complete. I suppose this means no iMac Pro for now, either. Or maybe there will be. We don't know, though. Transparent roadmap would be nice.

Ternus said it -- here you go (timestamped to right when he says it):

I agree with you 100% on the transparent roadmap

 

[mattspace]

One thing that didn't I haven't seen a lot of comment on, from the WWDC keynote, was Mr. Cook saying that the transition to Apple Silicon was complete. I suppose this means no iMac Pro for now, either. Or maybe there will be. We don't know, though. Transparent roadmap would be nice.

There will never be an AS iMac Pro, or a 27" (or any large) iMac. They have that product - the Studio and Studio Display.

 

[Marswarrior462]

If the Mac Pro is modular and has the same design, is it possible to take apart a 2019 Mac Pro and turn it into a 2023? I guess Luke Miani will do a video on that

 

[prefuse07]

If the Mac Pro is modular and has the same design, is it possible to take apart a 2019 Mac Pro and turn it into a 2023? I guess Luke Miani will do a video on that

I believe so

 

[blackquartz]

If the Mac Pro is modular and has the same design, is it possible to take apart a 2019 Mac Pro and turn it into a 2023? I guess Luke Miani will do a video on that

I guess in theory yes but in practice it wouldn't make much sense, in terms of money. Maybe a couple of years in the future when parts and components are cheaper.

 

[prefuse07]

I guess in theory yes but in practice it wouldn't make much sense, in terms of money. Maybe a couple of years in the future when parts and components are cheaper.

and better, lol. I would not give up my current setup for an M2 Ultra.