21.5-inch 4K - Advice on future proof

[torquer]

It's a shame Apple has equated larger form factor with pro features.
MacBook Pro 15" = Quad core
iMac 27" = dGPU
iPad Pro = pencil/upgraded screen

The one time I recall recently this not being the case, was when they gave the iPad mini the same processor as the regular sized iPad.

Keep in mind in at least some circumstances they are limited by what Intel does. The reason the 4k iMac comes with Broadwell chips (5th gen vs Skylake's 6th gen) is that Intel does not currently have an Iris Pro equipped socketed Skylake CPU that isn't a mobile chip. The 27" iMacs all have dedicated GPUs but if they didn't they'd be limited to Intel HD graphics rather than Iris Pro. Needless to say, it would not perform well driving so many pixels with such a limited GPU.

Granted, Apple has chosen not to utilize dedicated GPUs in the 4k iMac. This is due to a number of factors: market segmentation, cost, profit margin, form factor limitations. Clearly Apple believes the Iris Pro in these chips is good enough and to be honest for non pro users (the majority of Apple's marketshare) it very likely is.

Also with regard to the Macbook Pro, Intel does not make a quad core mobile CPU that will fit in a power envelope that works for a 13" laptop. It would be physically (thermally) impossible to stuff a 47W CPU into the 13" MBP. Not only would it run too hot but the battery life would be atrocious. The 15" form factor gives far more headroom for a battery and cooling. Cost is also a concern here, but physics plays a role as well.

I think it is easy to get into a situation where you think that there are very arbitrary choices made that keep any one machine from being totally ideal, but Apple is pretty methodical about this stuff. They generally choose hardware that is sufficient for the needs of the largest market while being differentiated enough to justify multiple tiers of a product with the fat profit margins few other companies can enjoy.

It doesn't mean its always right, but there is a method to the madness for sure.

EDIT: Also, Intel has announced they have no plans for a socketed Skylake CPU with eDRAM. As such, the 21.5" retina iMac will never use a Skylake CPU unless they reverse course and include a dedicated GPU as standard.

 

[DeApp1e]

This sounds like a very good choice. I hope you will enjoy your machine

Thank you I let Apple tempt me again and decided to go from i5 to i7 haha

 

[iceman42]

i would not get a fusion drive if you are planning on doing video editing it will be slow.the fusion drive is not meet to be used for large files.you would be using the 5400 rpm hhd instead of the ssd portion when you video edit.i would just get a ssd and i would upgrade to 16gb of ram if you are going to be editing in 4k

 

[satchmo]

Also with regard to the Macbook Pro, Intel does not make a quad core mobile CPU that will fit in a power envelope that works for a 13" laptop. It would be physically (thermally) impossible to stuff a 47W CPU into the 13" MBP. Not only would it run too hot but the battery life would be atrocious. The 15" form factor gives far more headroom for a battery and cooling. Cost is also a concern here, but physics plays a role as well.

The SurfaceBook and Sony Vaio Z Canvas are two that use quad-core Haswell chips. Yes, it's physically challenging, but perhaps if Apple weren't so fixated on thinness...

 

[Samuelsan2001]

The SurfaceBook and Sony Vaio Z Canvas are two that use quad-core Haswell chips. Yes, it's physically challenging, but perhaps if Apple weren't so fixated on thinness...

Rubbish the surface book uses a 15W dualcore skylake chip the skylake equivalent of what is in the macbook air with HD 520 graphics (no Iris let alone Iris pro).

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9767/microsoft-surface-book-2015-review/3

The Vio Z is fat, heavy and pointlessly a tablet with a quadcore haswell processor that is too heavy to hold as a tablet and too small and badly designed to be a very good laptop....

 

[satchmo]

Rubbish the surface book uses a 15W dualcore skylake chip the skylake equivalent of what is in the macbook air with HD 520 graphics (no Iris let alone Iris pro).

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9767/microsoft-surface-book-2015-review/3

The Vio Z is fat, heavy and pointlessly a tablet with a quadcore haswell processor that is too heavy to hold as a tablet and too small and badly designed to be a very good laptop....

I stand corrected. I was reading some earlier PC World article about how they shoehorned a quad-core processor into the surfacebook.
That said, do you not think Apple could improve on the Sony Vaio Z. It's shows it's not impossible to achieve if you perhaps compromise a bit on thickness.

 

[torquer]

The SurfaceBook and Sony Vaio Z Canvas are two that use quad-core Haswell chips. Yes, it's physically challenging, but perhaps if Apple weren't so fixated on thinness...

Those are actually all dual core 15W chips. Don't be fooled by the "i7" moniker - they are still dual core just like you can get a "core i7" in a mac mini but its a 15W dual core CPU.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_Book

http://ark.intel.com/products/88192/Intel-Core-i7-6600U-Processor-4M-Cache-up-to-3_40-GHz

Some laptops do shoehorn desktop class quad cores with their higher heat, but those are usually fat, heavy gaming laptops or workstation class machines.

It does look like the Vaio Z Canvas has a true quad core mobile part, the i7-4770HQ. This is a haswell 2.2GHz quad core with Iris 5100 graphics.

 

[Vonjover]

EDIT: Also, Intel has announced they have no plans for a socketed Skylake CPU with eDRAM. As such, the 21.5" retina iMac will never use a Skylake CPU unless they reverse course and include a dedicated GPU as standard.

Am i to assume that they will probably not update the 21.5" iMac for 2016? without an updated iGPU, i think they'll make that tier blank like they did the iMac in 2014, and make the proper update again in 2017? I assume Apple doesn't like retrograding back to a dGPU on the 4k iMacs.

 

[Samuelsan2001]

I stand corrected. I was reading some earlier PC World article about how they shoehorned a quad-core processor into the surfacebook.
That said, do you not think Apple could improve on the Sony Vaio Z. It's shows it's not impossible to achieve if you perhaps compromise a bit on thickness.

Do I think apple could improve on that Vaio?? Yes of course I do it is a terribly designed machine hardware wise, unfortunately OSX is not touch screen enabled so making one would be pointless for them. More importantly, whatever apple do, if they put a 47W quad core part in a tablet it will be fat hot loud and heavy with poor battery life with current technology. Until intel make a quadcore 15W or maybe even 28W part then it is a pointless excercise putting one in a tablet apart from for very specific use cases.

 

[satchmo]

Do I think apple could improve on that Vaio?? Yes of course I do it is a terribly designed machine hardware wise, unfortunately OSX is not touch screen enabled so making one would be pointless for them. More importantly, whatever apple do, if they put a 47W quad core part in a tablet it will be fat hot loud and heavy with poor battery life with current technology. Until intel make a quadcore 15W or maybe even 28W part then it is a pointless excercise putting one in a tablet apart from for very specific use cases.

My thought wasn't to shoehorn a 47w quad core into an iPad/tablet, but rather into the 13" MPB. A bit more headroom, perhaps?

 

[Samuelsan2001]

My thought wasn't to shoehorn a 47w quad core into an iPad/tablet, but rather into the 13" MPB. A bit more headroom, perhaps?

Not if you want to keep battery life, the chip is a fair bit bigger but it's the need for bigger cooling solutions that will really cut into battery space. Apple make their compromises to optimise portability and battery life in their notebooks and that's as it should be, the best computer is one you have with you and has the battery to still be working. The closest you can currently get to a sensible quadcore 13 inch slim light laptop is the razer blade 14 inch, but that has made battery and other compromises to acheive it, indeed most companies use the same 15W processors that go in the air in theirs, very few manufacturers equip their thin light 13 inch laptops with 28W Iris equipped chips.

 

[maflynn]

My thought wasn't to shoehorn a 47w quad core into an iPad/tablet, but rather into the 13" MPB. A bit more headroom, perhaps?

Its technically possible, but you then have to make other sacrifices for the room/cooling needed. I'm not engineer, but I think the move to a dual core processor was mostly about providing a good balance of processing power, battery life and cost. It consumers wanted more computing power, they could move up to another model.

 

[satchmo]

Its technically possible, but you then have to make other sacrifices for the room/cooling needed. I'm not engineer, but I think the move to a dual core processor was mostly about providing a good balance of processing power, battery life and cost. It consumers wanted more computing power, they could move up to another model.

There in lies the rub. Moving up means going to the 15" size.
I get it. It's catering to the general masses and not the niche power user.
I just wished Apple would provide a BTO option with a quad-core for the 13". Yes, battery life will be compromised, but for some, that's not an issue. For instance, my MBP for the most part is connected to 24" display. So I have the power in my home office and small form factor when I'm on the go.

 

[Samuelsan2001]

There in lies the rub. Moving up means going to the 15" size.
I get it. It's catering to the general masses and not the niche power user.
I just wished Apple would provide a BTO option with a quad-core for the 13". Yes, battery life will be compromised, but for some, that's not an issue. For instance, my MBP for the most part is connected to 24" display. So I have the power in my home office and small form factor when I'm on the go.

Thats not the point though is it, they would have to completely redesign the internals, source and use different components do all the testing etc for something that would sell a few thousand units at a vastly inflated price. They would also have take the flak for selling a small but thick, heavy, poor battery life, expensive product, never gonna happen and for very good business/image reasons.

Lets also be fair to the 15 inch rMBP it is thin and fairly light, for it's size and power, it is a perfectly acceptable portable device.

You'll just have to wait until the tech catches up to what you want I'm afraid.