27" base with SSD vs high end with Fusion

[Apple_Robert]

As CaptRB said, he's talking about real-world photo and video editing performance -- not benchmarks. The goal isn't winning the "benchmark olympics" and getting higher numbers. Rather it's rationally assessing how much difference (if any) the system drive makes on the real-world video editing workflow at hand.

I have four iMac 27s, two with 3TD Fusion Drive and two with SSD. I spend many hours each day editing 4k video professionally using FCPX. I have 100 terabytes of Thunderbolt 2 RAID arrays covering my desk and 200 terabytes in the closet. I've tested Fusion Drive vs SSD extensively for video editing and in general I don't see much difference for H264.

If using long GOP formats the editing task is largely CPU-bound, not I/O bound. If using low compression intraframe formats like ProRes or DNxHD, and especially for multicam sequences, it can become I/O bound but that content won't fit on a boot drive so boot drive speed is a moot point.

That is really the argument for a SSD boot drive -- if external storage is inevitable, you may as well get the SSD drive. Not because it makes video editing faster, but because it helps a little and eventually you must use external storage anyway.

However I've seen many users in the intermediate zone where their content would (for a while) fit on a 3TB Fusion Drive, but they are persuaded to get a 512GB SSD iMac, then all they can afford is a little slow 5400 USB bus-powered external drive, which only has about 90MB/sec performance.

I gave bench test results as well as actual usage opinion in my posts.

If someone isn't doing a lot of video and photo work every day, and doesn't have to have the kind of storage you do for continual work usage, I can see going with the Fusion Drive. With a Fusion Drive, one has to contend with two pieces of hardware going bad and losing the software drive. I am not at the level you are. However, for what I do, it is too frustrating using what I consider to be a slow drive with my i5. I also don't want to have to worry about the Fusion Drive mechanics.

If I had it to do over again, I might have splurged with the i7 and 2TB SSD drive. The problem I faced was not being about to balance the financial with the day to day need (at this moment) and that is how I ended up with the i5.

With Apple's great return policy, I encourage people to try out the Fusion Drive, and if need be, the SSD as well (wth either the i5 or the i7). I did and I doing so kept me from being disappointed with my purchase.

We come from different viewpoints and that is fine with me. I just want people reading to realize, that what either of us say should not be read as the gospel for all. After all, much of our opinions are subjective.

 

[CaptRB]

I highly doubt that. The price of flash storage will likely drop but it won't mean you can easily go out and buy an Apple proprietary SSD and slap it in.

The SSD is definitely higher on the checklist of critical upgrades than the processor for most users.

I disagree with 512GB being too small as well. Even parking Windows 10 and Linux virtual machines on my 512GB SSD, I am still using less than 300GB. For the past few years I was using 256GB of a 512GB Thunderbolt-attached SSD to boot macOS and never used more than half. All data/music/photos/backup are on external drives.

512 is too small for me. And you're wrong about drive options. Several companies are hard at work on them right now.
This speed thing is silly. All of the 27" models are fast once you upgrade the memory. But with 40 GB of memory, the processor is a big deal and the thing I saw the biggest jump with.

Again, this was doing post on Nikon D810 files, many open at the same time with layers. VERY processor intensive.

The fusion drive

As CaptRB said, he's talking about real-world photo and video editing performance -- not benchmarks. The goal isn't winning the "benchmark olympics" and getting higher numbers. Rather it's rationally assessing how much difference (if any) the system drive makes on the real-world video editing workflow at hand.

I have four iMac 27s, two with 3TD Fusion Drive and two with SSD. I spend many hours each day editing 4k video professionally using FCPX. I have 100 terabytes of Thunderbolt 2 RAID arrays covering my desk and 200 terabytes in the closet. I've tested Fusion Drive vs SSD extensively for video editing and in general I don't see much difference for H264.

If using long GOP formats the editing task is largely CPU-bound, not I/O bound. If using low compression intraframe formats like ProRes or DNxHD, and especially for multicam sequences, it can become I/O bound but that content won't fit on a boot drive so boot drive speed is a moot point.

That is really the argument for a SSD boot drive -- if external storage is inevitable, you may as well get the SSD drive. Not because it makes video editing faster, but because it helps a little and eventually you must use external storage anyway.

However I've seen many users in the intermediate zone where their content would (for a while) fit on a 3TB Fusion Drive, but they are persuaded to get a 512GB SSD iMac, then all they can afford is a little slow 5400 USB bus-powered external drive, which only has about 90MB/sec performance.

yeah...thanks for that.

I'm a pro shooter mainly for catalogue work and I'm also a screenwriter. Benchmarks are a joke to me because they rarely give the whole story on how a system will handle a given application. So let me put this in perspective.

I'm currently at work on a feature film that was posted on a slower system than the one I just ordered. No one had any issues. Now if we're talking 6K footage off a Dragon system, that little 512 SSD isn't helping much anyway.

What I do know is that I tried these systems with files from my Nikon D810 cameras. This is not family photo stuff. This is batch processing large files for print and 4K presentation. I don't know how else to say it, but the 2TB fusion drive was perfectly fine. The 512 SSD was not perceptively quicker, but it REQUIRED external storage to be of any use to me. If the 512 demonstrated any positive effect on my workflow, I'd have ordered it.

Fusion drive is fine AND BIG. I can ADD fast external drives and FAST SSD internal drive of a proper size later.


R.

 

[deeddawg]

Fusion drive is fine AND BIG. I can ADD fast external drives and FAST SSD internal drive of a proper size later.

Food for thought.

Configuring a 27" iMac, the price difference between 2TB Fusion and 1TB SSD is $600. 2TB Fusion to 2TB SSD is $1200.

Compare to the cost of buying a 1TB NVMe SSD for $579 or a 2TB NVMe SSD for $1200. https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-960-PRO-Internal-MZ-V6P1T0BW/dp/B01LYRCIPG
Not to mention the fun and enjoyment aspect of the DIY upgrade. https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iMac+Intel+27-Inch+Retina+5K+Display+SSD+Replacement/30537

EDIT: as noted below, you can't actually get a third party NVMe SSD to work, so you're limited to SATA SSDs internally which aren't nearly as fast.

 

[SaSaSushi]

And you're wrong about drive options. Several companies are hard at work on them right now.

I'll believe it when I see it. Also, pardon me for being skeptical about your claim that they will be available for little money.
[doublepost=1504701265][/doublepost]

Food for thought.

Configuring a 27" iMac, the price difference between 2TB Fusion and 1TB SSD is $600. 2TB Fusion to 2TB SSD is $1200.

Compare to the cost of buying a 1TB NVMe SSD for $579 or a 2TB NVMe SSD for $1200. https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-960-PRO-Internal-MZ-V6P1T0BW/dp/B01LYRCIPG
Not to mention the fun and enjoyment aspect of the DIY upgrade. https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iMac+Intel+27-Inch+Retina+5K+Display+SSD+Replacement/30537

Since when can one use a non-Apple NVMe SSD in an iMac? The Apple SSDs have proprietary firmware and Macs will not recognize other drives. I assumed the iFixit guide was for those with larger Apple SSDs.

 

[deeddawg]

Since when can one use a non-Apple NVMe SSD in an iMac? The Apple SSDs have proprietary firmware and Macs will not recognize other drives. I assumed the iFixit guide was for those with larger Apple SSDs.

Interesting. I really hadn't looked into it much at this point.

If you can't use a third party NVMe SSD then you're limited to a SATA SSD internal upgrade. That's further incentive to bite the bullet and go with the Apple SSD if one thinks they might later need a "FAST SSD" internal drive.

 

[mpConroe]

I see, you are struggling with this decision. I went with max out config in my iMac with full flash 1TB SSD. I didn't want to have a spinning hard drive, so if I were you I would go with a 512GB or 1TB SSD. The spinning drives are dying and High Sierra has a support for SSD. SSD is the future of computing, spinner hard drives are the past.

Also, when you buy a computer, you should upgrade RAM from the basics 8GB to more. But, don't pay Apple for it - buy third party RAM like Corsair or Crucial (don't choose Kingston cos they have lower frequency, they are overclocked to 2400MHz).

Somebody said that there is no point in buying i7 - well that's not true. i7 has hyper-threading, but SSD will made a bigger burst in performance. But, if you have a money - buy i7 with SSD and that power will blow your mind! (and wallet )

 

[TechZeke]

I was recently choosing a new iMac and decided on the 27" base model with an upgrade to a 512GB SSD.

I started ticking all of the options and the price started going up and up, and it was really a more powerful machine than I needed, so I unticked everything apart from the SSD.

Now I notice that John Lewis in the UK are offering £200 off the top spec 27" iMac bringing it down to the same price I paid for base + SSD. BTO is not available, so this comes with the 2TB Fusion Drive. On the upside, it comes with a two year warranty from John Lewis themselves, who have a good reputation.

Which would be the best overall spec?

If I ever upgrade my 2011 iMac to a new one, pure SSD is pretty much default for me.

I went through the ache to upgrade my iMac to pure SSD, and my gaming PC was built using only SSDs.

The speed and noise of HDD's in other PCs instantly make them feel dated. I'd never buy another computer with an HDD. I'm not a pro videographer/photographer, so I'll let them bitch about needing several terabytes of storage. If you don't need the extra storage space, it's worth the premium for SSD.

 

[tgara]

One other advantage of the SSD is that it will be fully compatible with Apple's new APFS file system that will roll out with macOS High Sierra, and files contained on it will be upgraded to the new system. Data on Fusion and regular hard disk drives are not upgraded.

https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT208018