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Garemz

macrumors regular
Original poster
Feb 7, 2008
225
3
Edmonton Alberta Canada
If everyone is having this issue it's clear that there is something wrong.

What is the solution? Do we go back to the apple store and het the tech to look at it?

Do we wait for an update?

Do We trade it in for Macbook/Macbook pro's.

Let me know

Cheers
Gary
 

ReBeLaCe

macrumors newbie
Jan 8, 2007
19
0
If everyone is having this issue it's clear that there is something wrong.

What is the solution? Do we go back to the apple store and het the tech to look at it?

Do we wait for an update?

Do We trade it in for Macbook/Macbook pro's.

Let me know

Cheers
Gary


I am a Apple tech. And I would tell you its expected behavior its what apple says. The first one I would def. check in and run diagnostic but the service manual for the air says sluggish behavior is normal.
 

Garemz

macrumors regular
Original poster
Feb 7, 2008
225
3
Edmonton Alberta Canada
service manual for the air says sluggish behavior is normal.<-------This is my 5th Mac i never read the manual thats crazy. For $2k Canadian we get sluggish computers in this day and age.

I think I'm trading it in for the Macbook.

Cheers
Gary
 

MRU

macrumors Penryn
Aug 23, 2005
25,370
8,952
a better place
What I'm really struggling with is this though....

OK so one core gets shut down... fair enough

But surely 1 core at 1.6ghz (more power than 1.4 mac mini) is still more than capable of playing back div X / AVI files ? Surely should handle DVD no problem after all a G3 500mhz can.....

The fact that people are having problems doing simple tasks without lag is very strange and very worrying as it simply should not be happening on one core or two.... period :eek:
 

rom

macrumors regular
Jun 7, 2006
101
0
My experience with lagging has to do with the slow 4200 rpm HDD access.
 

ReBeLaCe

macrumors newbie
Jan 8, 2007
19
0
I agree but the macbook air was never meant to do what your asking of it. If you would have came in my store and said your gonna be doing anything other than surfing the web and doing word documents etc... I would have pointed you at the macbook. Well the problem is a heating issue its not a power issue. The air is set to clock down when it hits a certain temp and then after that it will clock back the graphics. So who knows how far that goes I have no idea.
 

MRU

macrumors Penryn
Aug 23, 2005
25,370
8,952
a better place
My experience with lagging has to do with the slow 4200 rpm HDD access.

NOPE!! I have used many laptops in the past and many have included 4200rpm drives. Whilst not ideal there has been no real detriment to basic tasks such as watching a movie. Heck I even captured video and edited a project on a 4200rpm powerbook a couple years back without any hassle.

The mac mini G4's shipped with 4200rpm drives and were sound machines and could handle everything that people are saying the MBA's are having trouble with.

The 4200 RPM drive is not as bad as people are making out it to be.


I agree but the macbook air was never meant to do what your asking of it. If you would have came in my store and said your gonna be doing anything other than surfing the web and doing word documents etc... I would have pointed you at the macbook. Well the problem is a heating issue its not a power issue. The air is set to clock down when it hits a certain temp and then after that it will clock back the graphics. So who knows how far that goes I have no idea.

I'm sorry but thats complete b*ll**ks !

The MBA with a 1.6 or 1.8 core2duo processor with a 4200 rpm drive (or ssd) and 2gb of memory should be able to outperform any of the last revision powerbooks. It should also be able to keep up with the first core duo macbooks REGARDLESS OF TASK

If your spending $1799 on a computer, people should not be struggling to watch avi's or dvd's or run programmes.

I've ran photoshop CS3, Corel Painter X, watched many AVI's and DivX files on my 1.6 without it overheating or fans coming on full pelt. I have yet to experience a second core shut down.

The fact that many people are experiencing problems is a design fault or a manufacturing error surely. To say the MBA is only capable of surfing the net or editing a word document is as I said earlier.... absolute garbage.

Whilst it may not be a powerhorse compared to apples other newer laptops. It is better specced than a 15" or 17" powerbook and people were happily doing many 'pro' tasks on those for a long time.
 

Masquerade

macrumors 6502a
May 16, 2007
654
0
i wonder why this feature isn't marketed. instead of whine, why not make a petition to apple to solve macbook's air problems, give back your money, or a manila envelope?
 

Phil A.

Moderator emeritus
Apr 2, 2006
5,800
3,100
Shropshire, UK
I'd like to know where people are using their MBAs when they overheat: The air vents could be easily blocked if the machine's put on a soft surface, which would definitely cause overheating. I've had my MBA running full whack for extended periods and all that happens is the fan kicks in. I have never had a core shut down on me...
 

Garemz

macrumors regular
Original poster
Feb 7, 2008
225
3
Edmonton Alberta Canada
Everything i have read, the trouble starts when watching video. this needs to be addressed.

I don't know if a firmware/software can fix this.


if the macbook had the LED sceen i would dump my MBA in a second.
 

theheyes

macrumors regular
Mar 8, 2006
218
0
Manchester
Have they been slapping on that thermal paste again?

And did I read that right? Sluggish behaviour is normal? Good Lord.

A core going down when you need it is the last thing you want but it sounds to me like its normal and thus have to live with it. If its designed to do that then... well, it is what it is unfortunately.
 

Eidorian

macrumors Penryn
Mar 23, 2005
29,190
386
Indianapolis
Apple said:
* Last Modified on: January 29, 2008
* Article: 307297

Issue or symptom

3D graphics applications may be less responsive, or exhibit slow or 'sluggish' performance, when the CPU has been in heavy use for prolonged periods of time or in an extremely hot environment for a period of time.

This may happen if your MacBook Air is attempting to protect itself from overheating by shutting down one core of your CPU. In extreme conditions, the MacBook Air may also reduce the clock rate of the remaining core. Either protective measure may cause the application, especially 3D graphics applications, to be less responsive.
Products affected

* MacBook Air

Solution

To improve responsiveness in warm conditions, move your computer to a cooler area, or consider using a laptop cooling pad to dissipate the heat.
I'm just making sure that you guys know that Apple made a knowledge base article on this. I have no clue why they removed it though.
 

Garemz

macrumors regular
Original poster
Feb 7, 2008
225
3
Edmonton Alberta Canada
They removed it because their sales numbers would drop.

3D graphics applications may be less responsive, or exhibit slow or 'sluggish' performance<------I'm just watching a movie not playing 3D games/Applications.

Need a Fix/Solution

Cheers
Gary
 

tony-in-japan

macrumors regular
Jan 13, 2008
243
0
Saitama, Japan
Does the MBA have a graphics chip?

But surely 1 core at 1.6ghz (more power than 1.4 mac mini) is still more than capable of playing back div X / AVI files ? Surely should handle DVD no problem after all a G3 500mhz can.....

The fact that people are having problems doing simple tasks without lag is very strange and very worrying as it simply should not be happening on one core or two.... period :eek:

NOPE!! I have used many laptops in the past and many have included 4200rpm drives. Whilst not ideal there has been no real detriment to basic tasks such as watching a movie. Heck I even captured video and edited a project on a 4200rpm powerbook a couple years back without any hassle.

The mac mini G4's shipped with 4200rpm drives and were sound machines and could handle everything that people are saying the MBA's are having trouble with.

The MBA with a 1.6 or 1.8 core2duo processor with a 4200 rpm drive (or ssd) and 2gb of memory should be able to outperform any of the last revision powerbooks. It should also be able to keep up with the first core duo macbooks REGARDLESS OF TASK

If your spending $1799 on a computer, people should not be struggling to watch avi's or dvd's or run programmes.
Whilst it may not be a powerhorse compared to apples other newer laptops. It is better specced than a 15" or 17" powerbook and people were happily doing many 'pro' tasks on those for a long time.

Has anyone mentioned anything about a specialist graphics chip? And does the MBA have one?

I own a 12" Powerbook (1Ghz) and Mac Mini (1.5Ghz) that has both G4 chips and they can run full screen movies fine (on a 20" ACD) but I am sure it is because they both have a graphics chip. Even last night, I watched a rented iTunes AVI movie from my PB connected to a 32" Aqua TV at full screen without one playback skip. This is a machine from 2003! The fans kick in but I am sure that if there was no graphics chip (GeForce FX Go5200) then the playback would skip.

I was thinking about upgrading my PB to a MBA, but now I am concerned.

I don’t think the iPod HD is the problem. Could the problem be that they are new 1st generation chips (that have been custom shrinked very small), or that the MBA is lacking a specialist graphics chip from nVIDIA?
 

mashoutposse

macrumors 6502
Dec 13, 2003
371
45
There is something wrong with the mini-C2D CPU they're using in this thing. The heat issues are ridiculous.

Everything else is fine -- it just falls flat on its face when presented with any task that uses the CPU in any noticeable way. I should be able to watch as much Youtube as I want without worrying whether I'm going to lose a core or not...
 

heyadol

macrumors member
Feb 21, 2004
43
0
coastal
I had a similar issue a few weeks ago. With everything quit except Activity Monitor, my fan was at 6200RPM and a Core would shut off after a while. This condition persisted after restarts and nothing in Activity Monitor was using more than 2%. Then I clicked the "My Processes" drop down and saw "All Processes." Found a program using 150% so I killed it and now all is well.:) I've been able to run several programs at once (Safari, Mail, iChat, VLC, HandBrake, Preview) w/o losing a core, the fan will still kick in eventually but as long as nothing runs away I'm good.
 

MRU

macrumors Penryn
Aug 23, 2005
25,370
8,952
a better place
Has anyone mentioned anything about a specialist graphics chip? And does the MBA have one?

I own a 12" Powerbook (1Ghz) and Mac Mini (1.5Ghz) that has both G4 chips and they can run full screen movies fine (on a 20" ACD) but I am sure it is because they both have a graphics chip. Even last night, I watched a rented iTunes AVI movie from my PB connected to a 32" Aqua TV at full screen without one playback skip. This is a machine from 2003! The fans kick in but I am sure that if there was no graphics chip (GeForce FX Go5200) then the playback would skip.

I was thinking about upgrading my PB to a MBA, but now I am concerned.

I don’t think the iPod HD is the problem. Could the problem be that they are new 1st generation chips (that have been custom shrinked very small), or that the MBA is lacking a specialist graphics chip from nVIDIA?


The X3100 in the MBA is more powerful than the Geforce5200 in the 12" Powerbook or the ATI 32mb GPU in the G4 MacMini's, or the GMA950 in the intel core duo mac mini's and first macbooks.


This is the same gpu in the majority of laptops on the windows side, and the same as in the current macbook.

None of these suffer from problems, therefore the GPU should be ruled out unless Intel & Apple have modified it someway which I doubt.

No the problem has to be CPU / Logic Board bound.

As I said earlier even on a single core 1.6 Core 2 Duo, people should not be experiencing problems watching an AVI file.

Something more sinister is at work.
 

Phil A.

Moderator emeritus
Apr 2, 2006
5,800
3,100
Shropshire, UK
There is something wrong with the mini-C2D CPU they're using in this thing. The heat issues are ridiculous.

Everything else is fine -- it just falls flat on its face when presented with any task that uses the CPU in any noticeable way. I should be able to watch as much Youtube as I want without worrying whether I'm going to lose a core or not...
Whilst I agree with you that you shouldn't be able to cause a core to shut down through using the machine (and mine seems fine - even pegging it at 100% for extended periods doesn't cause any problems), watching You Tube is actually a very processor intensive task due to it being Flash based: For some reason, flash and OS X have never really mixed well and it always hammers the processor.
 

Phil A.

Moderator emeritus
Apr 2, 2006
5,800
3,100
Shropshire, UK
If everyone is having this issue it's clear that there is something wrong.

What is the solution? Do we go back to the apple store and het the tech to look at it?

Do we wait for an update?

Do We trade it in for Macbook/Macbook pro's.

Let me know

Cheers
Gary

Not everyone does have this problem (I don't for one), so if you are having problems, you need to have it looked at
 

Adam Ierymenko

macrumors newbie
Mar 7, 2008
21
0
"Apple tech" troll

Dudes, the "Apple tech" guy talking about "sluggish behavior being normal" is obviously either stupid or a troll.

1) Apple would *never* actually *say* such a thing in a service manual. No Apple tech who values their job would come on here and say such dumb and obviously wrong things.

2) I also have a 900mhz G3 iBook and can watch fullscreen video with no problems whatsoever. The idea that the Air shouldn't be able to do this is silly. A Core 2 Duo 1.6ghz with one core shut down running at 1/4th clock speed would be able to play full screen video.

Some advice:

Try a CPU burn-in application. Some posters (like above) have suggested that the problem might be *Flash* rather than the Air at all. Run something other than full-screen video. Try games, simulations, demos, large PhotoShop edits, etc.

If you can't max out both cores in a normal room-temperature environment you almost certainly have a hardware problem. Take your machine back for servicing.
 

MRU

macrumors Penryn
Aug 23, 2005
25,370
8,952
a better place
2) I also have a 900mhz G3 iBook and can watch fullscreen video with no problems whatsoever. The idea that the Air shouldn't be able to do this is silly. A Core 2 Duo 1.6ghz with one core shut down running at 1/4th clock speed would be able to play full screen video.

Exactly what I have been saying in my posts :)
 

rom

macrumors regular
Jun 7, 2006
101
0
Just a quick comment -- the MBA, as opposed to similarly spec'd (CPU-wise) Macs, uses a different hardware design. Remember that the entire board has been shrunk to accommodate the tiny processors, memory, etc. as opposed to a rather huge board found in iBooks, Powerbooks, Macbooks and Macbook Pros. The fans are also smaller and has far less room compared to the other models. There will be trade-offs.

What I am trying to say is that it is not fair comparing MBA to anything that uses a different hardware configuration. Try something that uses the same smaller hardware design from Intel.

One last thing -- maybe what we can do is set a standard test set so we can all test our MBAs and then finally arrive at the same conclusion. Say use the same set of videos, running in the same configuration (full screen, etc.), and record the room temperature, start temperature, MBA temp, MBA fan rpms, etc.
 
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