30-bit IPS display in a laptop!

[snowboarder]

Have you seen this:

http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=5583

It has an HP DreamColor display! In a laptop. Check out
the specs: 1GB VRAM, the best graphics, 16GB of RAM...
BTW, HP DreamColor is one of the best LCD displays available,
we did some tests and it is better than the high end Eizo displays.

Maybe it is really finally time to forget about Macs,
there is simply no hope for Apple to introduce anything truly professional...
It's sad as in the same time more and more apps are coming to OS X,
Nuke, Smoke, DaVinci Resolve, new Media Composer,
Adobe 64-bit CS5 etc...

Can't believe Apple is sitting on a pile of money and can not invest
in some professional products, a great laptop being the number 1 priority.
Let's not start about the Apple software, they clearly don't care.
But a great laptop would be amazing. Wake up Steve, seriously.

 

[HBOC]

you have to remember that is an HP. In the recent consumer reports, HP ranked last in every category. It looks nice, no doubt.

I wouldn't get a laptop to process my pictures though. I would get an IPS external monitor. Maybe Apple has something up their sleeve. Who knows. Maybe with more and more powerful laptops being released, it will push them to as well..

 

[flosseR]

Have you seen this:

...there is simply no hope for Apple to introduce anything truly professional...
It's sad as in the same time more and more apps are coming to OS X,
Nuke, Smoke, DaVinci Resolve, new Media Composer,
Adobe 64-bit CS5 etc...

that's funny, I thought a lot of Pro Photographers are using " truly professional" equipment and are doing just fine with Apple so far... don't they? At least they won't have to deal with Windows....

 

[snowboarder]

that's funny, I thought a lot of Pro Photographers are using " truly professional" equipment and are doing just fine with Apple so far... don't they? At least they won't have to deal with Windows....

Well, many do. But seeing such an amazing display in a laptop,
you start questioning... I hate Windows as everybody else, but maybe
Windows 7 is not that bad? Maybe it is good enough?
I would kill for this display in my MBP. I do a lot of photography on my MBP,
sometimes it's just more convenient. I did calibrate my display
and it looks good, but comparing to HP DreamColor it's garbage.
You're welcome to visit my website: http://www.lightandpictures.com/

Andrew

 

[snowboarder]

Maybe with more and more powerful laptops being released, it will push them to as well..

You would think so, but they seem to care only about iPads and iPhones now.
Their margin is so high, they don't want to make any effort to produce
something that wouldn't bring them as much easy money quickly...
They practically killed professional software because they don't want
to keep the support necessary, 10000 more iPhones sold
and they make more money that the total sale of FCP...

 

[flosseR]

I am with HBOC on this. I'd rather have that display externally as a 30" hooked up to my MBP. bigger = better
But yes Windows 7 is not quite as bad , i have to use it at work and it does the job in the best way that Windows can ...

 

[wheezy]

Well, many do. But seeing such an amazing display in a laptop,
you start questioning... I hate Windows as everybody else, but maybe
Windows 7 is not that bad? Maybe it is good enough?
I would kill for this display in my MBP. I do a lot of photography on my MBP,
sometimes it's just more convenient. I did calibrate my display
and it looks good, but comparing to HP DreamColor it's garbage.
You're welcome to visit my website: http://www.lightandpictures.com/

Andrew

Your photos are terrific and have a gorgeous color range, I can see why you'd want 30bit color. BUT, does any camera out there give you 30 bit images? I'm pretty sure even the best cameras are "only" delivering 16bit RAW files, so while it would be nice to boast about a 30 bit display, can anything you create actually take advantage of that?

However, every spec on that laptop makes MBP's seem terribly weak in comparison. And it comes in cheaper than the 17" MBP. If only it didn't run Windows. And the battery life can't be fantastic. And the weight must be absurd.

 

[fiercetiger224]

Just to throw this thread over the edge, screw anything LCD. That includes LEDs, etc. CRTs is where it's at!

But seriously, 30-bit IPS monitor on a laptop? Sure it'd be great to have, but I'd take an external display any day. I don't do any serious work on my laptop, unless it's web dev. For photography, I always edit on my workstation. I still have another station set up with a 12 year old NEC CRT monitor, and it still blows away anything I've seen in an LCD. LCDs are good, but viewing angles and contrast ratios just aren't that great. I'm picky with video and photo editing too.

 

[KeithPratt]

BUT, does any camera out there give you 30 bit images?

It's 10-bit in the sense you're thinking of it — 10 red, 10 blue and 10 green.

I wonder if it'll have the same engine and selectable colour spaces as the LP2480zx. Ignoring any sense of affiliation, that's a phenomenally-spec'd laptop.

 

[snowboarder]

It's 10-bit in the sense you're thinking of it — 10 red, 10 blue and 10 green.

I wonder if it'll have the same engine and selectable colour spaces as the LP2480zx. Ignoring any sense of affiliation, that's a phenomenally-spec'd laptop.

Comparing to the 6-bit Apple displays in MBP...
Yeah, it seems to be exactly the same, full DreamColor specs.
Unbelievable, what is Steve thinking?

 

[Westside guy]

Most people don't want to carry around a 1.4" thick, 8 pound laptop (starting at 7.8 pounds... "starting at"?) and pay close to $3000 for the privilege - I'm taking those numbers from HP's website, plus using their "configure your own" tool. It's weird that the one article says it "starts at $1999", but all the pre-configured models on HP's site look to start between $2700-$2800.

I'd rather have a light laptop and a decent external monitor; but that's just me.

Given what Eizo, LaCie and others charge for their good displays, I would wait to see what serious photographers think about this beast once it's in the wild. The pricing just seems a bit odd to me - if the display is as good as you think it is. But maybe in smaller sizes it's simply that much cheaper to manufacture good displays. Or maybe it'll end up that HP's buying them from a low-balling Chinese manufacturer and end users will be screaming about the lack of QC.

BTW it seems unlikely that you're going to get much serious discussion if you insist on throwing in the random "there is simply no hope for Apple to introduce anything truly professional" and "what is Steve thinking" silliness. That's likely to just lead to fanboy arguments from both sides.

 

[FX120]

you have to remember that is an HP. In the recent consumer reports, HP ranked last in every category. It looks nice, no doubt.

This isn't one of HP's $499 throw away consumer notebooks. I still would rather take a Dell Laitude or Lenovo Thinkpad over HP's business class notebooks, but I will give them snaps on the display.

 

[exabytes18]

Yep. Their workstations are well refined and are in a separate class from consumer laptops (unless you consider nvidia quadro graphics to be for your casual consumer).

Joking aside, I've had excellent luck with HP workstations. They're a popular choice with people who need to work with Inventor, AutoCAD, and all the other software which benefits from firegl and quadros. Historically, Apple doesn't target this sector and so comparing such product lines is kind of lame.

FTW, most people I know with these laptops leave theirs docked for most of the day (i.e. mobility isn't a top priority).

 

[jaduffy108]

I'm with Snowboarder on this one. I just ordered a 15" MBP and NEC PA241W monitor. If I had seen this on Saturday, I would've had to think HARD about getting this HP instead of the Apple. Apple used to focus on creative professionals FAR more than they do now. The products they're offering these days are more more about being "thin" and pretty versus offering performance. Just my two cents....

 

[snowboarder]

Historically, Apple doesn't target this sector and so comparing such product lines is kind of lame.

You know what's lame? Historically Apple used to use the best components available
in the new Powerbooks. Every new Powerbook release was exciting.
Now, it's just... lame...

 

[OreoCookie]

Sorry, I'm not impressed with that machine. It's an expensive heavy machine and I don't see the advantage once you connect an external display (which in most cases has better IQ than that of the HP).

I've recently gotten an Eizo S2231W, a high-quality 22" lcd which is coupled to a MacBook Pro. I cannot imagine that even a nice notebook screen can deliver the same level of image quality.

 

[0098386]

See, computers like this question my laptop brand loyalty to Apple. I've always liked their laptop range because of the features... but they're getting less and less now. Or rather they're just not pushing it compared to other manufacturers.
If I was in the market for a new laptop... I'd get the HP.

 

[snowboarder]

Sorry, I'm not impressed with that machine. It's an expensive heavy machine and I don't see the advantage once you connect an external display (which in most cases has better IQ than that of the HP).

I've recently gotten an Eizo S2231W, a high-quality 22" lcd which is coupled to a MacBook Pro. I cannot imagine that even a nice notebook screen can deliver the same level of image quality.

You're kidding right? "Imagine" and "know" are two different things.
Your Eizo is FlexScan series, the only Eizos which can be compared to
the DreamColor displays are ColorEdge and most of them lose anyway...
And of course you take your Eizo with you everywhere...
That HP laptop is far superior than your whole setup.

 

[OreoCookie]

You're kidding right? "Imagine" and "know" are two different things.
Your Eizo is FlexScan series, the only Eizos which can be compared to
the DreamColor displays are ColorEdge and most of them lose anyway...

You're right that I own the `cheap' variety of Eizos which are among the best normal monitors you can get. They're not of the same class as Eizo's family of monitors for color proofing.

You're wrong in assuming that this HP `DreamColor' display can be compared with monitors for color proofing, they run for about the same as the whole HP laptop (Eizo's CG221-K costs around € 3300 where I live, but there are even more expensive models)! You fell in love with a few specs, numbers while forgetting basic things.

If this laptop were engineered for people doing graphical work, then HP should have included a color calibration tool just like Lenovo has for some of its ThinkPads.

And of course you take your Eizo with you everywhere...
That HP laptop is far superior than your whole setup.

Far superior
That depends on what you do: for some people it makes sense to get a 13" MacBook Pro and an external display rather than a 3.5~4 kg brick with a 2-hour battery life. Perhaps for others, such a compromise would make sense.

I prefer to keep my 15" MacBook Pro (which is to be replaced by a new 13" MacBook Pro) and an external monitor (I have one at work as well) which gives me more screen estate than what I can get with a laptop by itself.

If I want something faster than this HP laptop, I can use a quality monitor with a decent desktop.

 

[flosseR]

You're wrong in assuming that this HP `DreamColor' display can be compared with monitors for color proofing, they run for about the same as the whole HP laptop (Eizo's CG221-K costs around € 3300 where I live, but there are even more expensive models)! You fell in love with a few specs, numbers while forgetting basic things.

If this laptop were engineered for people doing graphical work, then HP should have included a color calibration tool just like Lenovo has for some of its ThinkPads.

+1 on this. Eizo's top class costs that much for a reason and while brand has SOMETHING to do with it, color proofing is the other part. Besides the 30bit color space is nothing new, it's been around in the old NEC for a while before HP (NEC 2180). Then again what exactly is this good for? yes it looks nice, so do most LED displays nowadays. If you do this professionally for proofing magazine photos etc. I could agree with maybe getting one but then you have already an expensive Eizo.
I don't know the price for the whole laptop is LESS than a professional monitor so how good is it when implemented?

 

[snowboarder]

You're wrong in assuming that this HP `DreamColor' display can be compared with monitors for color proofing, they run for about the same as the whole HP laptop (Eizo's CG221-K costs around € 3300 where I live, but there are even more expensive models)! You fell in love with a few specs, numbers while forgetting basic things.

If this laptop were engineered for people doing graphical work, then HP should have included a color calibration tool just like Lenovo has for some of its ThinkPads.

Far superior
That depends on what you do: for some people it makes sense to get a 13" MacBook Pro and an external display rather than a 3.5~4 kg brick with a 2-hour battery life. Perhaps for others, such a compromise would make sense.

I prefer to keep my 15" MacBook Pro (which is to be replaced by a new 13" MacBook Pro) and an external monitor (I have one at work as well) which gives me more screen estate than what I can get with a laptop by itself.

If I want something faster than this HP laptop, I can use a quality monitor with a decent desktop.

Discussing this with you is pointless. What are your credentials?
I have showed my website, what do you do?
I've been working with color for a long time, how about you?

Eizo is expensive in Europe, so what? Thank your European Union
for that. A Volvo is two times more expensive in Sweden that
the exact same model sold in California... So what?
I own two ColorEdge Eizo monitors. We also did a week long test at work
comparing those Eizos to DreamColor. It's not about the gimmicky
laptop calibration...
Yes, that laptop kills your monitor not even mentioning your MBP
with a joke of the graphics and power.
The fully speced HP is around $6K. It's expensive, but that's what I need.
Apple will never make one. Case closed. It's up to me to decide if I can
live with Windows 7...

 

[HBOC]

Cripes, everyone takes this stuff personally.

You have to realize that this stuff is A TOOL to get a job done. If this works best for what person A needs to do, but person B needs something else, then so be it.

 

[Ruahrc]

I think this is a good thing, and it's amazing what you can see once you walk outside of the Apple closet. Lenovo even has a dual monitor laptop! Yes they are heavy but as a standalone portable serious photo workstation there is no alternative. You can't schlep that external display with you wherever you go, and if you're requiring a high end portable photo workstation, my bet is you're hauling along a lot more gear (and probably people) with you, so the weight/bulk of one extra laptop is not going to make a bit of difference. Nobody's going camping with this thing editing sunrise photos in their tent.

I actually suspected Apple would implement IPS displays in their laptops with the latest revision, since they put one in the iPad. Secretly, however, I am kind of glad they didn't because it would have REALLY made me want to upgrade my current laptop, even though I only got it 11 months ago.

Ruahrc

 

[Designer Dale]

Just out of interest, what is the value of 30 bit color? What printer would I use to output 30 bit color? Can CMYK do this? Can lithography? Can the human eye see 30 bit??

Dale

 

[flosseR]

To answer Dale's question:
the human eye can distinguish about 10 million colors ( wikipedia) , this is less than 24 bit true color (16.7 million, 256 colors or 8 bit per channel.).

This 30 bit display can show, theoretically 1073741824 colors, so many times more than we can even perceive.

So no, the human eye can not see 30 bit, we can see about 1/100th of that spectrum. I also doubt we could print anywhere near that, but we won't know since we cannot see the result
I think it is great technology but what real compelling reason is there to move beyond truecolor (24bit)? I am not flaming, I am actually interested to know... Since the only thing I can think of is to work with a higher dynamic range but in order to use it, you would have to pull it into our visual range anyway.. right?

//f