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ukguy

macrumors newbie
Mar 27, 2017
14
8
We are still using ACD, they never got replaced as no one ever made a 30” 5k which would be a sweet spot as ACD is what we’d now call QHD 2.5k, ahead of its game at the time.
5k would double the quality at the same font sizes with no scaling.
There isn’t one though 😢
 

mcnallym

macrumors 65816
Oct 28, 2008
1,182
911
We are still using ACD, they never got replaced as no one ever made a 30” 5k which would be a sweet spot as ACD is what we’d now call QHD 2.5k, ahead of its game at the time.
5k would double the quality at the same font sizes with no scaling.
There isn’t one though 😢
Apple 30" Display was a 2560 x 1600 the same as my dell 3008WFP as opposed to 2560 x 1440p at 27" which is the what 27" Cinema Display and iMac 27 went too.

My parents still using my old 24" Cinema Display which 1920 x 1200 and find it good still. When I use it then holding up well still. They are/were good screens

iMac 5K is the 5120 x 2880 to get the scaling so run looks like 1440p however at 30" you have Dell 3023QE which again 2560 x 1660.

You need to goto the 32" size to get 6K which would be the XDR or the new Dell 32" 6K screen realistically for a retina level replacement for our screens and the XDR too pricy for me.

Been following the Dell 32" and seems many people tried and dissapointed however don't know how much unrealistic expectation
 

ukguy

macrumors newbie
Mar 27, 2017
14
8
Apple 30" Display was a 2560 x 1600 the same as my dell 3008WFP as opposed to 2560 x 1440p at 27" which is the what 27" Cinema Display and iMac 27 went too.

My parents still using my old 24" Cinema Display which 1920 x 1200 and find it good still. When I use it then holding up well still. They are/were good screens

iMac 5K is the 5120 x 2880 to get the scaling so run looks like 1440p however at 30" you have Dell 3023QE which again 2560 x 1660.

You need to goto the 32" size to get 6K which would be the XDR or the new Dell 32" 6K screen realistically for a retina level replacement for our screens and the XDR too pricy for me.

Been following the Dell 32" and seems many people tried and dissapointed however don't know how much unrealistic expectation
When they increased the size of the smaller iMac they made it 4.5k
I always hoped they’d do the same to the big iMac and go to 30” at 5.5k

They could do that but then no one would buy the crazy priced XDR…

Seems they are stuck on 27” and 32”, one of my oldest ACDs will need replacing in the next year as it’s gone yellow, hoping something comes out!
 

Sharky II

macrumors 6502a
Jan 6, 2004
966
352
United Kingdom
I'm struggling with what to do. Still have a 30" ACD and was planning on getting a 32" Benq, likely the 3220 or the 3205. Perhaps even a 3200 second hand if budget is tight.

Problem is, I've used a 32" recently and it's just not really that sharp. Yes it's better than the 30" ACD, but not enough to justify the expense, even at 1080p (which I'd use sometimes when I sit further away from the screen). I want to LOVE the display I get and I can't fully love any of them.

27" 4k is too small for me. Can't afford the 32" 6k options.

So I'm not really sure what to do... odd predicament!

Might consider dual 27" but it's such a huge reduction in vertical space compared to the 16:10 ACD...
 
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mcnallym

macrumors 65816
Oct 28, 2008
1,182
911
When they increased the size of the smaller iMac they made it 4.5k
I always hoped they’d do the same to the big iMac and go to 30” at 5.5k

They could do that but then no one would buy the crazy priced XDR…

Seems they are stuck on 27” and 32”, one of my oldest ACDs will need replacing in the next year as it’s gone yellow, hoping something comes out!

You might want to consider the Dell U3023QE. Is Dell Ultrasharp, supports Dell Display Manager on Mac.
2560 x 1600 in a newer updated slimline casing

Isn't on UK Dell website but is available to buy from Ballicom in the UK.

I am seriously thinking of it as sometimes get a yellow line down screen about 2/3 over to the right when looking at it

Could try the Dell 3224 which at 6K is 223 PPI so up at the right combo for retina. Just depends if like the looks or find the screen acceptable. I think the problem is people expecting XDR screen at budget price and falls short as opposed to a bad screen
 

JaredJenkinsDesign

macrumors member
Jul 19, 2022
97
79
I'm struggling with what to do. Still have a 30" ACD and was planning on getting a 32" Benq, likely the 3220 or the 3205. Perhaps even a 3200 second hand if budget is tight.

Problem is, I've used a 32" recently and it's just not really that sharp. Yes it's better than the 30" ACD, but not enough to justify the expense, even at 1080p (which I'd use sometimes when I sit further away from the screen). I want to LOVE the display I get and I can't fully love any of them.

27" 4k is too small for me. Can't afford the 32" 6k options.

So I'm not really sure what to do... odd predicament!

Might consider dual 27" but it's such a huge reduction in vertical space compared to the 16:10 ACD...
I know your pain as I tried a 32" 4K in the past (LG 32UN880-B) to try and use a one monitor setup and wasn't satisfied with the sharpness. For now, I'm currently running a dual 27" monitor setup for work.

It''s such a bummer that there aren't any more affordable 32" retina monitors. You could consider waiting for the recently released Dell 32" U3224KB to go on sale or wait for used monitors to show up but even then, it still might be outside your budget.
 

Sharky II

macrumors 6502a
Jan 6, 2004
966
352
United Kingdom
I think I'll probably just go with a Benq 32" 4k monitor.

I do a variety of work and some requires sitting far away from the monitor and using one plugin at a time, in which case the option of 1080p on the 32" is actually a benefit!

But yes, maybe in a few years 32" and 6k would be a bit more affordable... until then...!
 

Freida

Suspended
Oct 22, 2010
4,077
5,870
After buying 4 different monitors this month (including two 32" HDR monitors), I will reiterate that there is a lot more to a monitor than paper specs.

It will be interesting to see what Lenovo offers, but I just hope for their sake they can execute well with good quality QA.
Have you ever tried Samsung M8?
 

EugW

macrumors G5
Jun 18, 2017
14,084
11,847
Have you ever tried Samsung M8?
No, I didn't want a 32" 4K monitor. The new 27" 4K monitor is a step in the right direction, although I am less enthused by the fact it is a VA panel. I tend to move around a fair bit at my desk, and I don't like the generally poorer viewing angles offered by VA. However, I reserve judgement on that because I haven't use the new M8 series specifically. Maybe the viewing angles on that model are now good enough, I don't know.

What I really want though is a 30" 5K 5120x2880 monitor that is affordable, but it looks like we'll have to wait to see something like that. I certainly don't want to spend the coin on an Apple Pro XDR 32" 6K display, and I don't want something quite so big anyway.

BTW, the 32" Pro XDR has a native resolution of 6016x3384, so Retina would effectively run at 3008x1692 (107.9 ppi). However, at that 2X scaled Retina resolution, I find the text a tad small. Unfortunately, the next step down is 2560x1440 (91.8 ppi), and at that scaled resolution I find the text a bit larger than I need. I'd like to have something in between, something like 2800x1575 (100.4 ppi), but Apple for some reason doesn't offer that.

scaling.jpeg
 
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Freida

Suspended
Oct 22, 2010
4,077
5,870
I'm actually tempted to try the new M80C as I really want something bigger than 27"

I had 30" ACD in the past and it was fantastic. I just need something like that :)

No, I didn't want a 32" 4K monitor. The new 27" 4K monitor is a step in the right direction, although I am less enthused by the fact it is a VA panel. I tend to move around a fair bit at my desk, and I don't like the generally poorer viewing angles offered by VA. However, I reserve judgement on that because I haven't use the new M8 series specifically. Maybe the viewing angles on that model are now good enough, I don't know.

What I really want though is a 30" 5K 5120x2880 monitor that is affordable, but it looks like we'll have to wait to see something like that. I certainly don't want to spend the coin on an Apple Pro XDR 32" 6K display, and I don't want something quite so big anyway.

BTW, the 32" Pro XDR has a native resolution of 6016x3384, so Retina would effectively run at 3008x1692 (107.9 ppi). However, at that 2X scaled Retina resolution, I find the text a tad small. Unfortunately, the next step down is 2560x1440 (91.8 ppi), and at that scaled resolution I find the text a bit larger than I need. I'd like to have something in between, something like 2800x1575 (100.4 ppi), but Apple for some reason doesn't offer that.

View attachment 2217809
 

Sergs

macrumors newbie
Jul 29, 2023
6
1
I don't know if you guys can help me out but it looks like I am in the right place. Just recently bought a Gigabyte M32U 32inch 4k monitor and paired it with my Air M1. I used a dongle to extend my display but the problem that I am having is that the fonts are too small for me to even use the monitor on 4k resolution. I find that lowering my resolution to 1440p helps but the monitor sits very close to me and I can still pixelation. Is there a way for me to use 4k resolution and adjust the overall size of the font and icons and basically everything?
 

EugW

macrumors G5
Jun 18, 2017
14,084
11,847
I don't know if you guys can help me out but it looks like I am in the right place. Just recently bought a Gigabyte M32U 32inch 4k monitor and paired it with my Air M1. I used a dongle to extend my display but the problem that I am having is that the fonts are too small for me to even use the monitor on 4k resolution. I find that lowering my resolution to 1440p helps but the monitor sits very close to me and I can still pixelation. Is there a way for me to use 4k resolution and adjust the overall size of the font and icons and basically everything?
4K is too low a resolution for a 32" monitor in macOS at normal seating distances IMO. You need to use the HiDPI resolutions but even so, you will always see pixelation if you sit reasonably close. What I mean by "close" is 20-ish inches or so, which is considered an ergonomically correct distance.

If you change it to HiDPI 1080p (2X scaling), it will look better but then the fonts are huge and it reduces overall screen real estate too much.

At the native 4K resolution (no scaling), the fonts are too small.
At 1080p resolution (HiDPI), the fonts are too big.

Everything in between 1080p and 4K will not look great because of non-integer scaling. Non-integer scaling looks more decent on a smaller 4k monitor, like a 27" 4K monitor.

32" 6K - Pixel density 218 ppi <-- Looks great, even with non-integer scaling
32" 4K - Pixel density 138 ppi <-- Doesn't look good IMO
27" 5K - Pixel density 218 ppi <-- Looks great, even with non-integer scaling
27" 4K - Pixel density 164 ppi <-- Looks very good, even with non-integer scaling
24" 4K - Pixel density 184 ppi <-- Looks great, even with non-integer scaling
 
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Sergs

macrumors newbie
Jul 29, 2023
6
1
4K is too low a resolution for a 32" monitor in macOS at normal seating distances IMO. You need to use the HiDPI resolutions but even so, you will always see pixelation if you sit reasonably close. What I mean by "close" is 20-ish inches or so, which is considered an ergonomically correct distance.

If you change it to HiDPI 1080p (2X scaling), it will look better but then the fonts are huge and it reduces overall screen real estate too much.

At the native 4K resolution (no scaling), the fonts are too small.
At 1080p resolution (HiDPI), the fonts are too big.

Everything in between 1080p and 4K will not look great because of non-integer scaling. Non-integer scaling looks more decent on a smaller 4k monitor, like a 27" 4K monitor.

32" 6K - Pixel density 218 ppi <-- Looks great, even with non-integer scaling
32" 4K - Pixel density 138 ppi <-- Doesn't look good IMO
27" 5K - Pixel density 218 ppi <-- Looks great, even with non-integer scaling
27" 4K - Pixel density 164 ppi <-- Looks very good, even with non-integer scaling
24" 4K - Pixel density 184 ppi <-- Looks great, even with non-integer scaling
Dang wish I had known this sooner before buying this monitor. Would it matter if I upgrade to a Macbook Pro M1? Or it would just be the same?
 

Sergs

macrumors newbie
Jul 29, 2023
6
1
Okay so update here, it looks like HiDPI 1080p did the trick for me. The resolution on the monitor says it is indeed 4k and the fonts and icons are so much better now. It looks like it was scaled perfectly.
It would be exactly the same.
Okay so update here, it looks like HiDPI 1080p did the trick for me. The resolution on the monitor says it is indeed 4k and the fonts and icons are so much better now. It looks like it was scaled perfectly. You are right though, it is a little bit bigger and it takes a little bit of getting used to but it looks so much crisp now.

The only thing that I would like is that I would like to at least get to 60hz on this monitor. The system only gives the 30hz option but I think it is because of the cable/dongle that I am using.
 

EugW

macrumors G5
Jun 18, 2017
14,084
11,847
Okay so update here, it looks like HiDPI 1080p did the trick for me. The resolution on the monitor says it is indeed 4k and the fonts and icons are so much better now. It looks like it was scaled perfectly. You are right though, it is a little bit bigger and it takes a little bit of getting used to but it looks so much crisp now.

The only thing that I would like is that I would like to at least get to 60hz on this monitor. The system only gives the 30hz option but I think it is because of the cable/dongle that I am using.
It is up to you, but 1080p doesn't give a lot of screen real estate. That's actually significantly less than the 24" iMac.

4K HiDPI 2X scaled = 1920x1080
24' iMac 2X scaled = 2240x1260

A 4K 27" monitor scaled at 1.5X would be 2560x1440, and that is what most people might run on a 27". (Apple's 27" Studio Display is 5K 2X scaled to 2560x1440.) Despite not using 2X scaling, 4K looks OK at 2560x1440 on a 27" monitor. However, not so much at 32".
 

Sergs

macrumors newbie
Jul 29, 2023
6
1
It is up to you, but 1080p doesn't give a lot of screen real estate. That's actually significantly less than the 24" iMac.

4K HiDPI 2X scaled = 1920x1080
24' iMac 2X scaled = 2240x1260

A 4K 27" monitor scaled at 1.5X would be 2560x1440, and that is what most people might run on a 27". (Apple's 27" Studio Display is 5K 2X scaled to 2560x1440.) Despite not using 2X scaling, 4K looks OK at 2560x1440 on a 27" monitor. However, not so much at 32".
You are right, I tried 1440p resolution but I can't get past the rough edges on the fonts. This is actually my first time digging into the Mac ecosystem and I should have researched better! I never had to on any of my Windows machines!
 

EugW

macrumors G5
Jun 18, 2017
14,084
11,847
I never had to on any of my Windows machines!
Apple decided to stop using subpixel rendering. If you run older versions of macOS with non-Retina monitors, they look decent because they get subpixel rendering, but in later versions of macOS the same screens look considerably worse because they don't get sub pixel rendering.

I guess Apple figured that all new Mac laptops and all new Mac displays would be Retina, so they wouldn't need to implement subpixel rendering anymore. In contrast, Windows still uses subpixel rendering.

 
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mcnallym

macrumors 65816
Oct 28, 2008
1,182
911
I'm actually tempted to try the new M80C as I really want something bigger than 27"

I had 30" ACD in the past and it was fantastic. I just need something like that :)
Look at the Dell U3023QE. It is a 30" 2560 x 1600 screen so exactly the same as the Dell 30" ACD.

I have a Dell 3008 WFP that is 30" 2560 x 1600 and have latest ventura on my Mac Studio fed via USB-C to Display Port and the screen is fine.

About the only monitor that I found that size still available.
 
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obesechess

macrumors member
Aug 1, 2023
44
20
Hi folks, hoping to piggyback off of this a bit. I'm in the market for a new monitor for my new mac mini, and the ASD is not in the budget. Thus I am looking at 4k options. I do not do any heavy/professional graphics/photo work, if this matters, but image and text clarity is important to me as a layman. Three questions.

1. Is the "scaling" only for the UI, or does everything scale? Which is to say, if I scale things to 1440p or whatever, am I still able to watch 4k video on my 4k monitor? Or does everything scale? I've read conflicting reports.

2. Given the choice between a 32" 4K monitor at 139ppi or a 28" 4K at 157ppi, which is preferable and why? I would assume the latter due to the higher ppi, but this is all a bit over my head. Please be nice and do not say "neither, just get an ASD," though I am open to other options.

3. My understanding is that some M1 and late-model Intel Mac Minis had trouble outputting at full resolution to monitors attached via HDMI, but that this is largely a non-issue now assuming you are using an HDMI cable capable of 4K@60Hz (or whatever resolution). Is this correct? Both of my USB-C/Thunderbolt ports are already in use, so I need to use HDMI.

Thanks!
 

EugW

macrumors G5
Jun 18, 2017
14,084
11,847
Hi folks, hoping to piggyback off of this a bit. I'm in the market for a new monitor for my new mac mini, and the ASD is not in the budget. Thus I am looking at 4k options. I do not do any heavy/professional graphics/photo work, if this matters, but image and text clarity is important to me as a layman. Three questions.

1. Is the "scaling" only for the UI, or does everything scale? Which is to say, if I scale things to 1440p or whatever, am I still able to watch 4k video on my 4k monitor? Or does everything scale? I've read conflicting reports.
It will function normally at the "looks like" resolution you choose. So yes, a 4K video will work fine.

2. Given the choice between a 32" 4K monitor at 139ppi or a 28" 4K at 157ppi, which is preferable and why? I would assume the latter due to the higher ppi, but this is all a bit over my head. Please be nice and do not say "neither, just get an ASD," though I am open to other options.
What 28" 4K monitor are you talking about?

32" 4K monitor (138 ppi) is roughly "Retina" at 25" or greater.
28" 4K monitor (157 ppi) is roughly "Retina" at 22" or greater.
27" 4K monitor (163 ppi) is roughly "Retina" at 21" or greater.
24" 4K monitor (184 ppi) is roughly "Retina" at 19" or greater.
27" 5K monitor (218 ppi) is roughly "Retina" at 16" or greater.

Why is this important? Because what is usually accepted for ergonomic seating distance is greater than 20", although some may sit slightly closer. If you check the numbers above, you'll see that the best is Apple's 27" 5K monitor, but in the context of ergonomic seating distance, 24" 4K is great too, and 27" 4K is pretty decent too. I eventually settled on a 28.2" 4K+ monitor (at 3840x2560 which is higher than 4K vertically - details in my sig), but that works out to the exactly same ppi as 27" 4K (3840x2160).

In contrast, 32" 4K is not very good in this regard. I personally sit at around 20-25" and I found the 32" 4K sub-par for text quality. (I bought a 32" 4K Asus ProArt monitor but was very unimpressed, both for text quality and because of light bleed at the edges.)

3. My understanding is that some M1 and late-model Intel Mac Minis had trouble outputting at full resolution to monitors attached via HDMI, but that this is largely a non-issue now assuming you are using an HDMI cable capable of 4K@60Hz (or whatever resolution). Is this correct? Both of my USB-C/Thunderbolt ports are already in use, so I need to use HDMI.
? M1 and late model Intel Mac minis will output 4Kp60 just fine over HDMI. There are some monitor incompatibilities with certain older monitor firmwares for stuff like wake from sleep, etc. though with M1.

What do you have plugged into your two 2 USB-C ports? I use a Plugable Thunderbolt 4 / USB4 hub with my M1, and my USB-C monitor is connected through that.

main_ori_2d0ef533-274a-432c-900f-65bbf9c9ae9e.jpg
 
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obesechess

macrumors member
Aug 1, 2023
44
20
It will function normally at the "looks like" resolution you choose. So yes, a 4K video will work fine.
Okay, it will "work fine," it just won't be 4k, right? Or am I fundamentally missing something here?
What 28" 4K monitor are you talking about?

32" 4K monitor (138 ppi) is roughly "Retina" at 25" or greater.
28" 4K monitor (157 ppi) is roughly "Retina" at 22" or greater.
27" 4K monitor (163 ppi) is roughly "Retina" at 21" or greater.
24" 4K monitor (184 ppi) is roughly "Retina" at 19" or greater.
27" 5K monitor (218 ppi) is roughly "Retina" at 16" or greater.

Why is this important? Because what is usually accepted for ergonomic seating distance is greater than 20", although some may sit slightly closer. If you check the numbers above, you'll see that the best is Apple's 27" 5K monitor, but in the context of ergonomic seating distance, 24" 4K is great too, and 27" 4K is pretty decent too. I eventually settled on a 28.2" 4K+ monitor (at 3840x2560 which is higher than 4K vertically - details in my sig), but that works out to the exactly same ppi as 27" 4K (3840x2160).

In contrast, 32" 4K is not very good in this regard. I personally sit at around 20-25" and I found the 32" 4K sub-par for text quality. (I bought a 32" 4K Asus ProArt monitor but was very unimpressed, both for text quality and because of light bleed at the edges.)
A fair question. In this case, I'm stuck between either the Samsung UR55 (28") or UR59C (32"). I plan to upgrade to a better monitor eventually, but both of these are available for cheap locally (the UR55 is $150, the UR59C is $275) and likely will do just fine until then. I am leaning towards the UR55 for cost reasons.

? M1 and late model Intel Mac minis will output 4Kp60 just fine over HDMI. There are some monitor incompatibilities with certain older monitor firmwares for stuff like wake from sleep, etc. though with M1.
Interesting - I'd been reading a lot about people having all sorts of problems with their monitors - static, flickering, freezing, low resolutions, etc - when Thunderbolt and/or Displayport weren't being used. Guess I'll cross that bridge if and when I come to it.

Thank you so much for the helpful and thoughtful answers.
 

Sergs

macrumors newbie
Jul 29, 2023
6
1
Okay so just an update here about my first issue about the resolution in 1440p being grainy. I solved it by buying a thunderbolt 4 USB C cable. I plugged it in directly from MBA to my monitor and it worked like a charm.

I was using HidPi for a while but the logos and fonts are so big that I had to switch back to 1440p.
 
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