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MP All Models 40 core ASI with PCI-E slot is around the corner!!
- Thread starter Amethyst
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Generally agree with most of what you've posted except for this. I don't think it hurts Apple significantly and probably helps quite a bit. Probably not the original plan, but having more time for developers to optimize software doesn't hurt and skipping ahead to the next set of ASI specs doesn't hurt. I doubt that there's a significant pipeline of Mac Pro sales that they're missing out on, either in terms of Osbourned 2019 MP sales stalled from people holding off or delays in anticipated massive new growth from the ASI Pro. And if there is, it's probably better to push that revenue out a few quarters to take the edge off of their forecasted Mac slowdown since they'll get more reward for that slowdown coming in less than projected than if they'd added it to the current quarter which was already very strong. The only real potential downside is managing the community but I think overall community dynamics are very different than they were in the previous Pro pauses - this time around, half the community fears the update since even the most rosy predictions will compromise one or more major attributes of what those users buy the Pro for.
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It's sad that apple reaches such heights of failure, and the tech press nor it's Stockholm syndrome users do not skewer it for its failures. Taking 6 or 4 years to update its "pro" machine line is beyond failure.
It's gross incompetence and neglect. Apple has GOTTEN AWAY with gross incompetence on operations and business practices. It put all its operations in the hands of china, a hostile communist human rights abusing regime. Instead of doing business practice 101, diversification, apple lackeys in the press are lauding it for moving some of its production, after years of obvious problems with lack of diversification...wait for it... to Vietnam, another hostile communist regime. At least they move some to India, but no production to the US (at least say 5%) is beyond offensive from a business basics perspective.
So I guess it's not surprising that apple is not being skewered for their abject failures and gross incompetence int the pro market going 6 years and now 4 years between updates. THEN apple will have the audacity to complain 'it's not much of a market' when they declare 'victory' through abject failure to actually tend to the needs of the pro market.
EVERYONE SHOULD BE FIRED for this complete failure.
What masks their failures is the same thing that masked John Skulley's failures. Steve Jobs created enough great products that the loser management just keeps milking huge revenue from masking their gross incompetence. That money runway is longer now for apple, but it is not infinite. Yet people here will line up for more koolaid making apologies for apple rather than being objective and demanding better from apple.
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Replaced with who? As long as Apple makes 50% of it money from the iPhone. Apple will always suck.
The name change from Apple Computer to Apple should have been telling. Apple missed the 2 year transition sure there was the pandemic. Mark Gurman says it was because Apple wanted to base the Mac Pro on M2 and not M1.
I could definitely see why: A M1 based Mac Pro would have been a failure. M1 does not scale well. We will have see if M2 scales well.
AT the end of the day. Tim Cook has to retire. Apple's Sillcon is the only team at Apple actually working hard. The software team is dead with bugs and the design team is in crisis.
Apple needs new leadership.
My opinion is that Apple should put a Mac Pro on the market that embarrasses PC workstations.
It will however be an economic disaster because the market is not there. What can Apple provide of uniqueness that PC don't have in the high end market? At present nothing. Chucking AMD/NVIDIA cards into a case will only put Apple on par with Hp/Dell/Lenovo. There would be no competitive advantage. Until Apple finds that disruptive advantage over PC workstations, Mac Pro will likely be a Mac Studio+.
It will however be an economic disaster because the market is not there. What can Apple provide of uniqueness that PC don't have in the high end market? At present nothing. Chucking AMD/NVIDIA cards into a case will only put Apple on par with Hp/Dell/Lenovo. There would be no competitive advantage. Until Apple finds that disruptive advantage over PC workstations, Mac Pro will likely be a Mac Studio+.
What Apple needs, is to be regulated by laws that break any ability they have to allow one aspect of the business to prop up any other aspect. Right now the company is dozens of sick second and third rate businesses, whose only competitive advantage is in their preferential access to other parts of the business. The company is drowning in integrative malaise* where products can only be as good as the worst thing they're integrated with. It is a company of corpses, fettered to other corpses.
Operating Systems separated from Hardware, Applications separated from Operating Systems, Services separated from Applications, and Content Stores separated from Services. None of them to be allowed to interact with any other, except through openly documented, openly accessible connection points, where anyone can build a competitive alternative, drop it in, and the plumbing in and out is standardised. No more private APIs, no more privileged access. All dogfood, all the time.
Don't like iCloud? You drop in Microsoft Onedrive, and everything from Apple has to work exactly as before, because Apple's applications and services aren't allowed to know what the cloud service is, they're only allowed to know the gateway plumbing on their side of the connection.
Don't like Apple Macs? You drop in *any* PC hardware, and MacOS has to function exactly as before, because MacOS isn't allowed to know the hardware directly, only the kernel interface layer, which Apple must provide as an open source option that they must use themselves.
The company is a convicted antitrust felon, it's about time they were treated like any other three strikes recidivist.
*This malaise is also why Apple's design (decoration) team is so mediocre now - design thrives on externally imposed limitations, and Apple is basically free of those limitations, by virtue of insulating their businesses from external competition, through product tying.
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Agree and Apple should also make their M Sillicon work with Windows and Linux. It's best if the whole tech community has access to it. Apple is doing everything by itself it will feel overwhemled.
The Mac used to be known for it's design and same for OS X. It used to be the most nice looking and stable OS out there. What happened to that? I believe as you said Apple is bloated and so is it's OS.
yes , we are all frustrated since at least 2011 when the mismanagement of the pro side of macs begun. It is now approaching a level of absurdity that in a way helps: you need to be a person that likes to hurt yourself if you continue using macs for anything that requires massive compute. cpu-wise apple is just a little worse than the competition but when it comes to gpu it’s not even worth discussing anymore. If they don’t support amd cards on AS then there really is no hope of a sane ecosystem for people needing gpu power. Trust apple to do continuous updates to a new platform of their own gpu cards? Nah, guess they kind of showed us time a time again that they don’t give a flying fck outside of lauch day hype. The only other option I can think of that would change this dire situation would be mac mini like bricks/egpus for mbp, mini and studio people and internal mpx modules or SoC daughter cards for Mac pro. A monolithic m2 extreme would at best match a single 5975wx cpu coupled
With a single nvidia 3070 gpu. 152 core as gpu is in no way close to what is needed on the high end. A relevant system would at least dominate a dual 6800 duo and rival a dual nvidia 4090 setup. Since dual 4090 is about 160 TF and a mac studio ultra with 64 cores is 20 TF (if it scaled, which it doesn’t) The new Macpro would need 512 gpu cores. And that is just for raw compute without RT acceleration. Oh, and the 4090
Can be had for sub 2000$ each
With a single nvidia 3070 gpu. 152 core as gpu is in no way close to what is needed on the high end. A relevant system would at least dominate a dual 6800 duo and rival a dual nvidia 4090 setup. Since dual 4090 is about 160 TF and a mac studio ultra with 64 cores is 20 TF (if it scaled, which it doesn’t) The new Macpro would need 512 gpu cores. And that is just for raw compute without RT acceleration. Oh, and the 4090
Can be had for sub 2000$ each
Replaced by people who understand business 101 basics in operation. That you diversify your supply chains and do not put all your production eggs into singular hostile communist production baskets. Also, people that manage to release such machines EVERY DAMN YEAR at HP, for starters, hire 1 or 2 of those. It's not that hard. You just have to say 'we will not tolerate failure and incompetence.'
At the end of the day, cook is a failure at business 101 and has been milking Steve Jobs amazing successes despite his operational incompetence. Gee we are overly dependent on a hostile human rights atrocity communist govt of china, I know, I'll 'diversify' to Vietnam, another hostile human rights atrocity communist govt...while producing NOTHING in our own country (not even a token 5%). When he cannot get moron level basics like that right, I guess asking him to update the oldest most basic tower box computer ever, regularly, like every other company does, is too much to ask for.
Just have to look to the most boring banal companies on the planet that somehow (and by somehow I mean minus gross incompetence) manage to do better.
If youre asking specifically who should replace cook, there is only one person. Craig Federici. He's an ex-NeXTer and was with Steve, he's both technically capable and has spirit. Everyone else is a dud there in comparison.
Here is the killer part. NO ONE IN THE PRESS IS POINTING THIS OUT!. They all cover for this loser. They are completely non-critical of the pro market incompetence disaster murder that apple has committed, and are not critical of these shareholder wealth destroying incompetencies regarding diversification (aka business 101) failures on the part of cook. All cowards and lackeys. And the cherry on top. NO ONE IS EVEN MAD! Mac users line up for their Stockholm syndrome 'all apologies' tour to rationalize what is clear gross incompetence, calling a turd sunshine. Just pathetic all around.
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A random selection of MacRumors posters.
Just give me a head's up before this goes down so I can dump my Apple stock.
A random selection of MacRumors posters.
Just give me a head's up before this goes down so I can dump my Apple stock.
They would do better. Somehow I think random people would get that you do not put all your production eggs in one hostile communist human rights destroying basket.
This same 'enlightened' quip was made repeatedly about Skulley and how he raised apple revenue to record heights while it rotted from within.
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128 GPU cores, Apple puts 128 "shaders" or ALUs in each "core", so
128 * 128 * 2 ops per core per clock * lets say 1200MHz
We'd be looking at a 39Tflop GPU on paper. From Apple Silicon, that's pretty big! I do hope it has dedicated ray tracing acceleration though and every new AS machine from then on also does. It's not just for games, RTX kills it in things like Blender with OptiX.
128 * 128 * 2 ops per core per clock * lets say 1200MHz
We'd be looking at a 39Tflop GPU on paper. From Apple Silicon, that's pretty big! I do hope it has dedicated ray tracing acceleration though and every new AS machine from then on also does. It's not just for games, RTX kills it in things like Blender with OptiX.
Have you heard anything about dedicated ray tracing acceleration? This is my main bugbear with AS right now, using the RTX stuff on OptiX in Blender destroys everything else for example
And this is only the 2000 series, two generations old. It extends their lead even over CUDA.
I am of a mind that Apple will introduce hardware ray-tracing to the M2 Pro & M2 Max SoCs, thereby also introducing hardware ray-tracing to the M2 Max-derived M2 Ultra & M2 Extreme SoCs...
Then when Apple releases their M3 family of SoCs, the base M3 SoC will also get hardware ray-tracing...
Gotta give folks something to upgrade for...! ;^p
M1 SoC = no Media Engine
M2 SoC = Media Engine, but no hardware ray-tracing
M3 SoC = hardware ray-tracing
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That would be my ideal hope. I think this would depend on M2 Pro up being on 3nm for higher transistor budgets, if it's still 5nm it would probably be more of an M2 like mild update.
TSMC says they will begin to see N3 volume production revenue in early 2023. Industry publications state that the vast majority of the initial N3 volume has been purchased by Apple. If true, it wouldn't be for A17, because it's far too early for that, so it would be for something else. Conjecture here and elsewhere as well as analyst predictions suggest that early N3 will be for M2 Pro/Max/Ultra/Ultrax2.
I've read that it usually takes roughly 2 months or more from chips to finished computers on retailer shelves, so if the first volume N3 shipments arrive January 2023, that implies March at the earliest. However, Apple usually launches with some existing stock, so maybe add a month to that, to April. Thus, spring 2023 sounds about right for actual units in consumers' hands. (Spring 2023 begins March 20 and ends June 21.)
There are a lot of 'ifs' in there though, and it's also possible that N3 risk production can provide sufficient chips for an earlier launch. Supposedly N3 risk production began late Q4 2021 so it's been almost an entire year now, and by now there may be enough chips and high enough yields for initial Mac production, even if it's not quite enough to call it true volume production.
My understanding is that Intel had secured the initial N3 production, but then their CPU design(s) earmarked for that production were not ready, so Apple stepped in and secured said N3 production for themselves...?
Maybe Apple surprises us all and debuts three new Macs tail-end of winter/beginning of spring next year...?
- M2 Mac mini (5nm)
- M2 Pro Mac mini (3nm)
- M2 Ultra/Extreme Mac Pro (3nm)
Then the M2 Pro/Max MacBook Pro laptops roll out (via press release) a few months later, and we see new M2 Max/Ultra Mac Studios (also via press release) right before WWDC 2023, thereby saving WWDC for the Apple Mixed Reality product...?
Unless the whole "one and done" thing from Gurman comes about, then no Mac Studios to press release debut...? ;^p
Well, is it not Spring 2023 that Gurman now informs us we will see new M2 family based Macs...?!? ;^p
Which would be perfect for the ASi Mac Pro (M2 Ultra & M2 Extreme SoCs) as they would have an overall lower production rate than the lower cost and more mainstream Mac products...?
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I know there is a 99.9% chance this will not happen, but it would pretty awesome if Apple built their own video card based off what they have learned from M1 & M2 variants (along with studying Nvidia & AMD GPU architecture), so the Mac Pro could use the integrated GPU's in the M2 Extreme or whatever M2 chip they use for the Mac Pro for when you are just browsing the web, doing light tasks and use the the big guns (call them MV-1 or MG-1 Series - for Mac Video or Mac Graphics) for FCPX, Blender etc, etc.
One can dream.
One can dream.
I could see Apple developing add-in compute cards; on-SoC GPU for display output, add-in GPGPU(s) for compute/rendering...
@Amethyst
So with the latest "shakeup" from Gurman, maybe your source gets a round three of ASi Mac Pro prototypes, something of the M3 Extreme variant, on a 3nm process...?
So with the latest "shakeup" from Gurman, maybe your source gets a round three of ASi Mac Pro prototypes, something of the M3 Extreme variant, on a 3nm process...?
Frankly, I'd rather they continue to delay than to put out a "pro" machine that has less cores than my 2019 Mac Pro. Take the time. Get the chip right. More PCI lanes. ECC. Get 3rd party video card support in there. In the mean time, put out a driver for the AMD 7xxx series for existing Mac Pro users. Throw us a bone and get the replacement right.
If you want all that, you can be 100% sure you'll be disappointed.
100%? I'd guess you may be more likely than not right based on *rumors* but based on rumors, the 7,1 was going to be another trashcan Mac and 'modular' didnt mean slots...blah blah blah.
Few things in life are 100% You may end up being right, but the 7,1 pretty much destroyed the 100% narrative.