5,1 cpu tray in 4,1 MP. Fans won't stop?

[tsialex]

If you want to use genuine 5,1 tray with 4,1 (flashed to 5,1) logic board (as per the OP's situation)

You can either

1) Solder a 4,1 SMC chip on to the 5,1 tray. Therefore, you can have a dual processor tray that can use normal lidded CPU, with 4,1 SMC on it.

2) Solder a 5,1 SMC chip on to the 4,1 logic board. Therefore, you now practically make your cMP identical as genuine 5,1. Able to use 2010-2012 tray (but cannot use 2009 tray anymore).

I don't think it's wise to replace the CPU trays SMC, there are several hardware differences between 2009 and 2010/2012 dual CPU trays, from the heatsinks to components on the PCB.

If you gonna replace a SMC micro-controller to match CPU trays and backplanes, replace the backplane SMC. Backplanes are totally identical between 2009 and 2010/2012, besides the SMC firmware version.

 

[h9826790]

I don't think it's wise to replace the CPU trays SMC, there are several hardware differences between 2009 and 2010/2012 dual CPU trays, from the heatsinks to components on the PCB.

If you gonna replace a SMC micro-controller to match CPU trays and backplanes, replace the backplane SMC. Backplanes are totally identical between 2009 and 2010/2012, besides the SMC firmware version.

Oh, yeah, of course, if go for option 1, have to swap the whole tray including the heatsink(s).

 

[luisfromamora]

I have a:

• a 5,1 logic board
• a 5,1 single CPU tray
• a dead 4,1 logic board.
• and a 4,1 dual CPU tray

Downgrading the logic board (in terms of SMC) seems the most logic approach, if it works.

The other alternative would be to clone the SMC (2.5EUR each from Aliexpress). It seems technically feasible, but I don't have a programmer/qfp144 packaging adapter!

 

[h9826790]

Downgrading the logic board (in terms of SMC) seems the most logic approach, if it works.

This is proved can work.

 

[tsialex]

I have a:

• a 5,1 logic board
• a 5,1 single CPU tray
• a dead 4,1 logic board.
• and a 4,1 dual CPU tray

Downgrading the logic board (in terms of SMC) seems the most logic approach, if it works.

The other alternative would be to clone the SMC (2.5EUR each from Aliexpress). It seems technically feasible, but I don't have a programmer/qfp144 packaging adapter!

Cloning do not work, the Renesas micro-controller can't be read. It's a secure micro-controller that can be reprogrammed multiple times, but never can be read, look at the data sheet.

Btw, Apple never provided any SMC firmware updates for MP4,1 or MP5,1 and the source code never leaked, so you can't do anything besides physically replacing the micro-controller to match.

 

[enginelab]

What's the Renesas part number?

 

[enginelab]

Whith NEC / Renesas μC model:
-We can't read as most of them
-debug port is not available
-Apple never issue any flasher file(s) which could have helped us getting the firmware program quickly -there's no leak from an angel, and won't be anymore
-so the last way to sort that out is by getting the development kit of the μC, re-write the codes from NEC/Renesas examples/templates and write and test till we are fully controlling the fans/leds and the pushbutton.
-or install our own temperature control circuit board (really cheap on alliexpress...), remplacing the 10 yo fans with better ones, dust filters...

I would prefer re-writing the codes for the fun!

 

[MacProRestoreGuy]

You only need to delid for 2009 dual processors trays, btw.

Says here, no delidding necessary: https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Twelve-Core...216094?hash=item1a67a80c1e:g:8w8AAOSwULVb11MU

I have an extra 2009 backplane and single tray, both SMC 1.39f11.

 

[minifridge1138]

Says here, no delidding necessary: https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Twelve-Core...216094?hash=item1a67a80c1e:g:8w8AAOSwULVb11MU

I have an extra 2009 backplane and single tray, both SMC 1.39f11.

You can upgrade the CPUs of a dual processor 2009 Mac Pro without delidding. Many have done so including myself. BUT it’s much more challenging and has a much greater risk that either something is permanently damaged or doesn’t work properly the first time and you have to try again.

Not a problem on single cpu Mac Pros or 2010+ Dual CPU systems.

 

[tsialex]

Says here, no delidding necessary: https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Twelve-Core...216094?hash=item1a67a80c1e:g:8w8AAOSwULVb11MU

Apple used de-lidded Xeons with dual CPU early-2009 trays. This is an immutable fact.

You can use shims to compensate the lid height difference between lidded and the original de-lidded, or similar techniques, but that don't change that you have to adapt to the socket/heatsink combo of the early-2009 dual CPU trays.

This seller is probably sending shims with the kit. Seller is using washers, while other sellers use/used shims.

I have an extra 2009 backplane and single tray, both SMC 1.39f11.

SMC 1.39f11 are from mid-2010 or mid-2012 backplanes/trays. SMC 1.39f5 are early-2009 backplanes/trays.

So, you have a mid-2010 or mid-2012 combo.

 

[MacProRestoreGuy]

Apple used de-lidded Xeons with dual CPU early-2009 trays. This is an immutable fact.

You can use shims to compensate the lid height difference between lidded and the original de-lidded, or similar techniques, but that don't change that you have to adapt to the socket/heatsink combo of the early-2009 dual CPU trays.

This seller is probably sending shims with the kit.

SMC 1.39f11 are from mid-2010 or mid-2012 backplanes/trays. SMC 1.39f5 are early-2009 backplanes/trays.

So, you have a mid-2010 or mid-2012 combo.

Thanks for confirming what I was wondering. I will test them later. We call shims, washers.

 

[tsialex]

Thanks for confirming what I was wondering. I will test them later. We call shims, washers.

That seller sends shims, not washers. It's a machined metal tube cut to the size that you install at each of the four socket/heatsink post.

Seller uses shims, unacceptable solution.

 

[MIKX]

That eBay website's information states that 'WASHERS' are included in their CPU kit. Not SHIMS, not tubes.

Tubes, washers and shims are all used for different different purposes.
===================================================
This is a tube.

SHIMS are precisely machined 'spacers often sold as kits of 5 or more SHIMS of varied, exact thicknesses.



WASHERS are less precise 'spacers' but adequate for general purposes
Having said that, many people whom have done CPU upgrades with LIDDED cpus have stated in their guides that 2 x 1mm washers on each of the heatsink's 4 threaded locater is adequate.
These are WASHERS

================================================
Personally I would never use the "washer" + LIDDED method.
De-lidded will always be more reliable.
The precise thickness for the washers needed to compensate for the lidded CPUs is 2 x 2.3mm.

HOW TO DE-LIDD A CPU
​

Buy 4 razor blades, slowly, carefully work each from a corner of the CPU but (IMPORTANT) angle each blade 5° upwards to avoid damaging anything on the CPU.

After all 4 blades are properly inserted you can use pressurised gas cigarette lighter to melt the solder on the CPU die at which stagethe IHS (integrated heat sink ) cap will fall off. NOTE : Ensure that the CPU die lands on a soft cloth to avoid damage.

I do not recommendusing the VISE method, too aggressive in my opinion.

 

[tsialex]

That eBay website's information states that 'WASHERS' are included in their CPU kit. Not SHIMS, not tubes.
View attachment 898396


Tubes, washers and shims are all used for different different purposes.
===================================================
This is a tube.
View attachment 898398



SHIMS are precisely machined 'spacers often sold as kits of 5 or more SHIMS of varied, exact thicknesses.



WASHERS are less precise 'spacers' but adequate for general purposes
Having said that, many people whom have done CPU upgrades with LIDDED cpus have stated in their guides that 2 x 1mm washers on each of the heatsink's 4 threaded locater is adequate.
These are WASHERS
View attachment 898400

================================================
Personally I would never use the "washer" + LIDDED method.
De-lidded will always be more reliable.
The precise thickness for the washers needed to compensate for the lidded CPUs is 2 x 2.3mm.

HOW TO DE-LIDD A CPU
​

Buy 4 razor blades, slowly, carefully work each from a corner of the CPU but (IMPORTANT) angle each blade 5° upwards to avoid damaging anything on the CPU.

After all 4 blades are peoperly inserted you can use pressurised gas cigarette lighter to melt the solder on the CPU die at which stagethe IHS (integrated heat sink ) cap will fall off. NOTE : Ensure that the CPU die lands on a soft cloth to avoid damage.
View attachment 898408

I do not recommendusing the VISE method, too aggressive in my opinion.

Thx for showing that this specific seller sends washers - washers are an unacceptable solution.

The machined shims that some sellers use are a much better solution.

 

[tsialex]

What's the Renesas part number?

HD64F2145BFA20V | H8S/2140B

The H8S/2140B Group is supported only for the customers who have already adopted any of the products. For new adoption, please consider other products such as RX651, RX210 Group.

www.renesas.com

 

[enginelab]

HD64F2145BFA20V | H8S/2140B

The H8S/2140B Group is supported only for the customers who have already adopted any of the products. For new adoption, please consider other products such as RX651, RX210 Group.

www.renesas.com

Thanks Tsialex, i'll have a look tonight. First of all: the development kit ...

Sorry for the late reply: I received a 5,1 backplane board and i didn't follow the procedure for firmware update so now it's a mess

 

[sfpqi]

Has anyone ever tried to use a pair of 2010 heat sinks on 2009 tray? Are they electrically compatible? Would this avoid de-lidding?

 

[tsialex]

Has anyone ever tried to use a pair of 2010 heat sinks on 2009 tray? Are they electrically compatible? Would this avoid de-lidding?

Won't even fit, the base of the heatsink is totally different.

 

[sfpqi]

What about taking the backpane board of a 4,1, replace it with real 5,1 and put a real 5,1 Dual tray inside the 4,1 chassis? Found a good deal of a 2010 tray, almost half of what 2009 sells for.

 

[tsialex]

What about taking the backpane board of a 4,1, replace it with real 5,1 and put a real 5,1 Dual tray inside the 4,1 chassis? Found a good deal of a 2010 tray, almost half of what 2009 sells for.

Yes, no problem. If both the backplane and tray have the same SMC versions, year model of the case don't matter.

 

[Teachermark01]

Desolder both from dead 5.1 board and re-solder on 4.1

Just ran apple diagnostics on it ...passed !

I have an 4,1 Mac Pro and a 5,1 tray. So I need to find a SMC chip from a dead 4,1 tray right?

 

[tsialex]

I have an 4,1 Mac Pro and a 5,1 tray. So I need to find a SMC chip from a dead 4,1 tray right?

You can change the backplane SMC or the CPU tray one, the only thing that matter is that both have to be the same in the end.

Be aware that it's extremely difficult to do this if you don't have the correct equipment/training/supplies, it's a TQFP-144.

 

[Teachermark01]

You can change the backplane SMC or the CPU tray one, the only thing that matter is that both have to be the same in the end.

Be aware that it's extremely difficult to do this if you don't have training/equipment/supplies, it's a TQFP-144.

I do not have the equipment, so that's fa*ked up.... maybe I find someone who can do it. I have an single tray... so someone can swap that SMC out of it I guess and place it in the dual tray? Or is that not possible?

 

[tsialex]

I do not have the equipment, so that's fa*ked up.... maybe I find someone who can do it. I have an single tray... so someone can swap that SMC out of it I guess and place it in the dual tray? Or is that not possible?

Needs to be the backplane the SMC to be changed to MP5,1. While single CPU trays are exactly the same, dual CPU trays are very different between early-2009 to mid-2010/mid-2012 and the sensors will not work correctly.

Forget this idea, if you are not a professional with experience on this type of repair, it's impossible to accomplish this.

Buy a mid-2010/mid-2012 backplane or a complete Mac Pro with a damaged case.

 

[Teachermark01]

Forget this idea, if you are not a professional with experience on this type of repair, it's impossible to accomplish this.

Buy a mid-2010/mid-2012 backplane or a complete Mac Pro with a damaged case.

Sorry I am not that good in this. So this one would be good? https://www.benl.ebay.be/itm/Apple-...Logic-Board-Motherboard-639-0461/332365667323

I can screw this one in my 2009 4,1. Swap everything and than it should work just fine?