5K Monitor direction spells redundancy for my 8 month old Mac Pro

[MacVidCards]

Somebody has a lot of free on their hands. Yes, I was totally wrong. This is the FIRST time I have heard that it is possible to upgrade the CPU on the iMac. Much like many of your supporters are not aware of the fact that the CPU is upgradeable on the nMP. Now we are all aware.

Thank You

 

[theSeb]

Back on topic.

Anyone have some input?

What input are you looking for? The nMP can drive 3 x 4K displays. It's not inconceivable that it might be able to run the Dell 5K monitor too, depending on how Dell implements this.

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Thank You

Would this be a good time to introduce this?

Oh please. You know what he means. His point is still valid, despite the ability to replace the CPU.

 

[MacVidCards]

What input are you looking for? The nMP can drive 3 x 4K displays. It's not inconceivable that it might be able to run the Dell 5K monitor too, depending on how Dell implements this.

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Would this be a good time to introduce this?

Maybe good time to walk away.

 

[goMac]

With the iMacs, just because something is in theory upgradable, that does not mean it's evenly upgradable with the Mac Pro.

Ever tried to take an iMac apart to replace these sorts of things? It hasn't really been doable since the iMac G5. I wouldn't want to be the one upgrading a CPU in an iMac, and I've worked inside my share of Macs...

This is like claiming that an engine in a car is swapable. Well sure, I mean I guess you could, but it isn't particularly meant to be swapped or easy to swap.

 

[MacVidCards]

With the iMacs, just because something is in theory upgradable, that does not mean it's evenly upgradable with the Mac Pro.

Ever tried to take an iMac apart to replace these sorts of things? It hasn't really been doable since the iMac G5. I wouldn't want to be the one upgrading a CPU in an iMac, and I've worked inside my share of Macs...

This is like claiming that an engine in a car is swapable. Well sure, I mean I guess you could, but it isn't particularly meant to be swapped or easy to swap.

Has nothing to do with ability/inability to run a 5K display.

Funny how often this thread gets derailed by the Cupertino Support Squad.

 

[VirtualRain]

You can call me crazy but I am trading my just purchased base model Mac Pro for a fully loaded Retina iMac and I'm going to be running it with a 27" Cinema Display and a Thunderbolt Display. It says that it can run an external 4K display and I think for what I'm using it for it should be plenty to power those other two displays.

You could do what you're planning and run different displays along side it, but it would be a jarring experience to go from retina to non-retina. You might be able to do it, but I'd be very turned off by it I think... anything not worth viewing on the retina display is not worth viewing at all and I might as well power down those extra non retina displays and use them to keep the doors open in summer.

 

[AidenShaw]

The nMP is possibly in a better place because the cMP has no Thunderbolt, and therefore will never support a 5k Thunderbolt display.

The display connection is DisplayPort, not T-Bolt. Why couldn't the MP5,1 support a DisplayPort monitor if it has a new graphics card with the DisplayPort connectors?

Perhaps the T-Bolt hub in the 5K display wouldn't work - but after feeding the 5K monitor there's not a lot of bandwidth left on the cable for the hub.

 

[goMac]

The display connection is DisplayPort, not T-Bolt.

Right. I think the uncertainty around the nMP support 5k is specifically about Apple displays which are not DP. They're Thunderbolt.

That's the open question. We know there will be DP 5k Displays for the Mac Pro, but we don't know if any of them will be from Apple.

Some people here are trying to muddy the water.

 

[AidenShaw]

Right. I think the uncertainty around the nMP support 5k is specifically about Apple displays which are not DP. They're Thunderbolt.

That's the open question. We know there will be DP 5k Displays for the Mac Pro, but we don't know if any of them will be from Apple.

Some people here are trying to muddy the water.

You'd better check on that - since there's no PCIe graphics card in the display, the video signals are DP, not T-Bolt.

T-Bolt and DP run side-by-side on the cable - DP for the video, T-Bolt for the hub.

 

[kendrickhphoto]

You could do what you're planning and run different displays along side it, but it would be a jarring experience to go from retina to non-retina. You might be able to do it, but I'd be very turned off by it I think... anything not worth viewing on the retina display is not worth viewing at all and I might as well power down those extra non retina displays and use them to keep the doors open in summer.

I've done it before with using a rMBP as a third monitor and keyboard for the Cinema display and Thunderbolt display.

I've been using the base nMP with 32 GB of RAM with those two displays and the LG 34UM95 in the middle recently but the LG monitor has been giving me too many problems so I decided to go with the Retina iMac. During the day the Cinema display will be hooked up to the work laptop that's running Window. That will be a non issue as far as resolution goes since I'm used to having less than stellar monitors with work computers. The Cinema display will be a big step up in that regard.

 

[mintakax]

I still love my nMP. I use it every single day for work (scientific data analysis using IDL, visualization using big PS files) and play (wildlife photography and aerial videography). I could care less about 5K right now .... Just give me a reliable affordable 4K UHD monitor please ! One I know is compatible and has a decent track record. I'll be happy for 2-3 years

 

[calaverasgrande]

thing is, 5k is an oddball resolution. I am not aware of any other manufacturer offering 5k cameras 5k monitors or any kind of 5k anything.
Generally speaking we work in HD/2k/4k/6k/8k.
See a pattern?
The idea that you are going to work in 4k on a 5k screen is just ludicrous. The timeline would be tiny and pretty much constrained to thumbnails too small to see or simply one row of timeline.
In actual post production we usually use regular def monitors to do our editing and such and then have a 2nd (or usually 3rd) display for checking output.

The only reason they did 5k was because it maintains the same retina dot pitch that we see on other Apple devices without resizing the chassis. IMHO they should have shaved an inch or so off of the iMac and done 4k.

 

[theSeb]

thing is, 5k is an oddball resolution. I am not aware of any other manufacturer offering 5k cameras 5k monitors or any kind of 5k anything.
Generally speaking we work in HD/2k/4k/6k/8k.
See a pattern?
The idea that you are going to work in 4k on a 5k screen is just ludicrous. The timeline would be tiny and pretty much constrained to thumbnails too small to see or simply one row of timeline.
In actual post production we usually use regular def monitors to do our editing and such and then have a 2nd (or usually 3rd) display for checking output.

The only reason they did 5k was because it maintains the same retina dot pitch that we see on other Apple devices without resizing the chassis. IMHO they should have shaved an inch or so off of the iMac and done 4k.

If you consider how Apple does scaling on the rMBP, then a 5K display makes perfect sense to work with 4K content (both videos and photos).

 

[goMac]

thing is, 5k is an oddball resolution. I am not aware of any other manufacturer offering 5k cameras 5k monitors or any kind of 5k anything.
Generally speaking we work in HD/2k/4k/6k/8k.
See a pattern?
The idea that you are going to work in 4k on a 5k screen is just ludicrous. The timeline would be tiny and pretty much constrained to thumbnails too small to see or simply one row of timeline.
In actual post production we usually use regular def monitors to do our editing and such and then have a 2nd (or usually 3rd) display for checking output.

The only reason they did 5k was because it maintains the same retina dot pitch that we see on other Apple devices without resizing the chassis. IMHO they should have shaved an inch or so off of the iMac and done 4k.

I can think of a few things...

Working at 5k lets you have some on screen chrome around while you preview your footage at a native 4k. If you spend all your time working with video full screen, yeah, it's pretty meh.

A lot of other developers (application, web, etc) also need to work at Retina resolution but don't want to sacrifice the current effective resolution they work at. 4k would be an increase in quality, but a drop in working space at 2x DPI. So 5k is a big deal for that.

 

[hugodrax]

Here I was, like many others I suspect, waiting for a brand new Thunderbolt Monitor for my new Mac Pro to be announced and out comes a 5K monitor product direction that leaves us all in the dust.

If the TCOM chip in the new 5K iMac is so good, why not daisy chain it to a Thunderbolt 2 port on the back of my second mortgage (aka 8 month old Mac Pro) so that I won't feel that I have been totally left behind.

How hard could it be?

next mac pro will have a TCOM chip and interface to 5K display. As long as what you bought today is making you a return on that macpro you should be good to go with what you have now.

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Are you seriously saying Apple is expecting us to just "dispose of" and upgrade our $3000 - near $10,000 Macs every time there's a new one? I don't think they are at all. Even for businesses this is unreasonable. I think we haven't seen a new TBD yet because Apple is trying to figure out a way to get a 5k display running with the current MP with an elegant solution.

Actually, you did buy that 3K-10K mac because it did what you needed at the time of purchase. Next years model will support 5K.

but since you did not need 5K when you purchased the Mac PRo, you should not be worried.

if you need 5K next year, then sell your Mac Pro and buy the new one, and charge your clients accordingly. If they want 5K product, that means they should pay for it.

 

[Loa]

Hello,

Testing the water with a simple analysis:

-The cMP will eventually be able to use 5K displays using good GPUs and 2 cables.
-The nMP will eventually be able to use 5K displays using 2 cables (and thus 2 TB ports).

What am I missing? And what's with all the fuss?

Loa

 

[MacVidCards]

Hello,

Testing the water with a simple analysis:

-The cMP will eventually be able to use 5K displays using good GPUs and 2 cables.
-The nMP will eventually be able to use 5K displays using 2 cables (and thus 2 TB ports).

What am I missing? And what's with all the fuss?

Loa

What you are missing is somehow being obscured by mud in the water.

-The cMP will LIKELY be able to run 5K via a single DP cable(1.3) when those GPUs become available. Whether it will be able to do so with current GPUs using Dual DP cables (1.2) is up to Apple/Nvidia/AMD writing drivers.

-The nMP will most likely NEVER be able to run a 5K with a single cable as it is forever stuck in DP 1.2 mode courtesy of the non-upgradeable GPUs. (some pedantic nit-wit will doubtless point out that the GPUs CAN be upgraded since they are screwed in. I would respond that having nothing to upgrade to makes them non-upgradeable, screws, latches, or velcro notwithstanding) Whether it will be able to do so with current GPUs using Dual DP cables (1.2) is up to Apple/Nvidia/AMD writing drivers.

Thus, at least as far as 3rd party 5K displays, the cMP stands equal or better chances of running those displays. Admitting that the can has already been pushed toward "obsolete" by a product that Apple introduced has proven especially difficult for some.

 

[BeatCrazy]

Hello,

Testing the water with a simple analysis:

-The cMP will eventually be able to use 5K displays using good GPUs and 2 cables.
-The nMP will eventually be able to use 5K displays using 2 cables (and thus 2 TB ports).

What am I missing? And what's with all the fuss?

Loa

Dumb question, nMP = new Mac Pro (6,1).... what is cMP?

 

[Gav Mack]

What you are missing is somehow being obscured by mud in the water.

-The cMP will LIKELY be able to run 5K via a single DP cable(1.3) when those GPUs become available. Whether it will be able to do so with current GPUs using Dual DP cables (1.2) is up to Apple/Nvidia/AMD writing drivers.

-The nMP will most likely NEVER be able to run a 5K with a single cable as it is forever stuck in DP 1.2 mode courtesy of the non-upgradeable GPUs. (some pedantic nit-wit will doubtless point out that the GPUs CAN be upgraded since they are screwed in. I would respond that having nothing to upgrade to makes them non-upgradeable, screws, latches, or velcro notwithstanding) Whether it will be able to do so with current GPUs using Dual DP cables (1.2) is up to Apple/Nvidia/AMD writing drivers.

Thus, at least as far as 3rd party 5K displays, the cMP stands equal or better chances of running those displays. Admitting that the can has already been pushed toward "obsolete" by a product that Apple introduced has proven especially difficult for some.

I would imagine apple are getting the job done with AMD in time for that dell 5k coming out. If the retina 15 with broadwell and tb2 can support 5k using a pair nvidia will be too if they don't cut them out with another descrete AMD this time for the notebooks. If they get done again perhaps they should ask evga to make a Mac edition 980 to continue OS X development when getting further into the Apple freezer.

cMP - classic or cheesegrater Mac Pro - 1,1 to 5,1

 

[riggles]

Are you seriously saying Apple is expecting us to just "dispose of" and upgrade our $3000 - near $10,000 Macs every time there's a new one? I don't think they are at all. Even for businesses this is unreasonable. I think we haven't seen a new TBD yet because Apple is trying to figure out a way to get a 5k display running with the current MP with an elegant solution.

I think we haven't seen a new TBD because there aren't any MBP's that can power them, more so than Mac Pros. For those who think that's an exaggeration, take a look at the end of the TBD connector bunch—the part where there's a dedicated MagSafe power connector. TBDs are for MBPs first and foremost.

 

[Darby67]

I think we haven't seen a new TBD because there aren't any MBP's that can power them, more so than Mac Pros. For those who think that's an exaggeration, take a look at the end of the TBD connector bunch—the part where there's a dedicated MagSafe power connector. TBDs are for MBPs first and foremost.

Interesting theory, I believe it to be incorrect, but interesting. So you believe that Apple just swung for the fences and just by some fluke they work with other Thunderbolt fitted Macs?

All the extra wires on the end of the TBD and the previous models with USB are there so that they can be using with any Mac that can power them. They might be not necessary on something other that doesn't need the MagSafe, but that's it.

 

[lbotez]

Are you seriously saying Apple is expecting us to just "dispose of" and upgrade our $3000 - near $10,000 Macs every time there's a new one? I don't think they are at all. Even for businesses this is unreasonable. I think we haven't seen a new TBD yet because Apple is trying to figure out a way to get a 5k display running with the current MP with an elegant solution.

I'm totally amazed Apple put out a 5K Display iMac before the new 4-5K Display for the Mac Pro. Honestly stunned.

The 4K monitors that the nMP can use are either ridiculously expensive or not ready for prime time... yet they put out an iMac for $2.5K with the monitor that I want. I just don't want the computer attached.

I'm starting to hardly believe what's happening... it's almost a year that the new Mac Pro was released, and still no Apple UHD Monitor for it.



BTW, you can buy an SSD upgrade for your nMPro. I did. Buy it on eBay. Works fine.

Make sure it's a Samsung. I got the 1T one. It's dumb easy to swap out.

Model number: MZ-KPU1T0T/0A2
Link Width: x4 Lane Module
Link Speed: 5.0 GT/s

Best to buy the one that has a metal heat sink on it.

search for Apple Samsung 1TB SSD w/Heatsync

 

[VirtualRain]

I'm totally amazed Apple put out a 5K Display iMac before the new 4-5K Display for the Mac Pro. Honestly stunned.

The 4K monitors that the nMP can use are either ridiculously expensive or not ready for prime time... yet they put out an iMac for $2.5K with the monitor that I want. I just don't want the computer attached.

I'm starting to hardly believe what's happening... it's almost a year that the new Mac Pro was released, and still no Apple UHD Monitor for it.

If you've been following the technical discussion around this, you'll realize why this display is ONLY possible on the iMac. Currently there is no elegant way to drive it - on any computer. Period. But because the iMac is an all-in-one, Apple can do whatever they want inside, standards-be-damned, and get away with it.

Apple has also set a standard that retina displays must have around 200-220 PPI density. On a 27" display you need 5K to achieve this density. 4K would necessitate a 21.5" panel size to keep the density between 200-220 PPI. Hence, you can see where this is going. Next year's iMac refresh will almost certainly include a 21.5" 4K retina model.

As for stand-alone TB displays... they can't offer a 5K 27" because no Mac (or other computer) can currently drive it. They could offer a 4K 21.5" that most recent Macs could use, but no one really wants a 21" retina display. So until DP 1.3 is integrated into a number of MacBooks to enable a 5K 27" display, I don't think you'll see Apple offering a new stand-alone display product. And keep in mind that the Mac Pro customer is not their primary target market for TB displays... they sell way more MacBooks than Mac Pros which is why the TB display is essentially a display and TB docking station and laptop charger all in one.

If you have a Mac Pro and want a retina display, a 24" 4K display is pretty close to retina pixel density (and getting more reasonably priced). Then there's Dell's 5K 27" display which may be supported (but perhaps unreasonably expensive), and of course there's larger 4K and 4K2K panels around 28-32" are also available but don't have the pixel density to offer Retina quality sharpness... you're best running those at native resolution.

 

[DJenkins]

I wonder what happens if you try to run a new iMac in target display mode as was possible with the older iMac series. Would it show an image at all? Or maybe upscale?

 

[Pressure]

I wonder what happens if you try to run a new iMac in target display mode as was possible with the older iMac series. Would it show an image at all? Or maybe upscale?

It isn't supported in the new iMac with retina.