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I've actually had my eye, well both eyes, on this for a while.

As far as cost is concerned it seems like a lot bang for the buck.

Unfortunately, as far I know, none of the software I use, (Cinema 4D, VRAY, After Effects), can take advantage of the card. If it did, I'd buy the card in a heartbeat.
 
I've actually had my eye, well both eyes, on this for a while.

As far as cost is concerned it seems like a lot bang for the buck.

Unfortunately, as far I know, none of the software I use, (Cinema 4D, VRAY, After Effects), can take advantage of the card. If it did, I'd buy the card in a heartbeat.

I agree. It would be totally different if OS X could just schedule threads to that card... even via emulation... so that all native applications could use it. Then that two or three thousand dollar price tag would seem totally reasonable (to me). But as far as I know that's not the case.
 
I'm not even sure if c4d/vray would see the card in an windows environment. If so, I'd buy it and my mac would spend most of its time in Bootcamp/Windows.
 
I agree. It would be totally different if OS X could just schedule threads to that card... even via emulation... so that all native applications could use it. Then that two or three thousand dollar price tag would seem totally reasonable (to me). But as far as I know that's not the case.

Just because these cards run a variant of x86 doesn't mean they're a pluggable co-processor card that will "run anything". The Phi shares more in common with a GPU then it does with the host CPU from an expansion peripheral standpoint. No matter what you do, you're going to have to target the Phi much as you would target OpenCL, and run dedicated code on it that way.

I'm not even sure if c4d/vray would see the card in an windows environment. If so, I'd buy it and my mac would spend most of its time in Bootcamp/Windows.

These cards are not currently supported under Windows (as in, there's no drivers for them at all).

Even if there were, I know for a fact that neither MAXON, ChaosGroup, LAUBlab, or Adobe is interested in supporting this card. It's just too niche and they would have to dedicate vast amounts of resources rewriting their render engines to run on the card so that performance is acceptable. It would be analogous to them porting to a third option- OpenCL, CUDA, and now the Phi- and we don't even have full support for both OpenCL and CUDA in the CG industry.

Besides, if you're on Windows then you've already got access to Octane Renderer and GPUs that support that are infinitely cheaper then a single Phi.

-SC
 
No matter what you do, you're going to have to target the Phi much as you would target OpenCL, and run dedicated code on it that way.

There is a two pronged attack Intel is using with Phi.

a. Apps that run on High Performance Clusters (i.e., computational clusters). Typically these are clusters of Linux boxes. That software ports over to Phi cards relatively easily because the Phi card is running Linux. This is the low-hanging-fruit so approach is more evolved.

If Phi caps the encroachment of more mainstream GPGPU cards from supercomputer design wins, then Intel will be happy.


b. Intel maps the OpenCL model onto the Phi card. You can run OpenCL code on the Phi card. You probably won't get a the highest match to peak theoretical performance, but you can. This isn't as mature and Intel dog and pony demos don't really push this option.... yet.

http://software.intel.com/en-us/art...ming-guide-for-the-intel-xeon-phi-coprocessor

http://software.intel.com/en-us/art...l-applications-for-intel-xeon-phi-coprocessor


These cards are not currently supported under Windows (as in, there's no drivers for them at all).

This too is why the OpenCL lags behind. In the Windows ( and OS X ) space there is a wider base of apps that are "shipping" computation off to "helpers" with OpenCL. In Linux, that more likely would be done with MPI (e.g. OpenMPI) and OpenMP which have been around alot longer.


Even if there were, I know for a fact that neither MAXON, ChaosGroup, LAUBlab, or Adobe is interested in supporting this card...... It would be analogous to them porting to a third option- OpenCL, CUDA, and now the Phi-

It would more so be a variant of a OpenCL where the n-way of the architecture leaks back through the OpenCL interface. The much larger blocker for folks like Adobe , MAXON , etc far more seems to be they don't have Linux apps and don't "plug-into" Linux based HPC clusters well.

This is primarily why I said Apple could make a difference if they wanted to try. It is the "hook two Unix instances to do work together" drivers ( which pragmatically includes the OpenCL glue to do the dispatching of the computations/data to the Phi card) that is the essentially the missing part.


I suspect though that it is a much higher Apple priority to stoke the fires under the chairs under Intel folks in the integrated graphics group. With Haswell GPUs, Intel is only just catching up to the full OpenCL API. The catch-22 is that the performance of the HD 4000 and HD 5000 series isn't a huge barn-burner (compared to what AMD and Nvidia are currently delivering) while they do have a barn-burner in Phi but the OpenCL interface is missing or immature on anything but Linux.


and we don't even have full support for both OpenCL and CUDA in the CG industry.

In industries where they are charging a relatively high amount per computation grid node. .... They are just going to drag their feet on this. If one node could do the work of three that could result in a 2/3% reduction in income for them. Very few companies are going to accelerate investment into that.
 
Just because these cards run a variant of x86 doesn't mean they're a pluggable co-processor card that will "run anything". The Phi shares more in common with a GPU then it does with the host CPU from an expansion peripheral standpoint. No matter what you do, you're going to have to target the Phi much as you would target OpenCL, and run dedicated code on it that way.

Isn't that what I just said? I thought so anyway.. :p
 
In industries where they are charging a relatively high amount per computation grid node. .... They are just going to drag their feet on this. If one node could do the work of three that could result in a 2/3% reduction in income for them. Very few companies are going to accelerate investment into that.

Some of that software is designed to address very large data sets while most of them require that anything being run on the gpu fit into vram. That seems to be one of the things holding it back. The companies that produce render farm hardware are totally different from the ones writing software, or am I missing something?
 
VRAY render options are user selectable and OpenCL is one of the options. So the Phi could be interesting.

I can just imagine (fantasize) Apple shocking the world in going ultra-aggressive on the enterprise side with Mac Pros and new servers that tap into all this. Apple has touted OpenCL but never down much with it.

The industry is flat-footed right now and could be left in the dust.
 
I can just imagine (fantasize) Apple shocking the world in going ultra-aggressive on the enterprise side with Mac Pros and new servers that tap into all this. Apple has touted OpenCL but never down much with it.

FCPX won't work without OpenCL. It is a requirement.

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4664?viewlocale=en_US

There are other apps using it. They just don't make a huge deal out of it.

There is a difference between Apple's platforms not being the "best" OpenCL platform in every way and Apple leveraging OpenCL. In the mainstream dog-and-pony shows, they don't taut OpenCL anymore than OpenGL. It is a backend/infrastructure thing typical end-users don't deal with. It is typical Apple though in that OpenCL is a "multiple chefs in kitchen" process where Apple and the GPGPU vendors each have a piece of the solution. If Apple isn't going to use their investment resources to "even the playing field" the much larger Windows+Linux markets are going to get attention first and OS X when the 3rd party vendors get time.


As for Apple getting back into 100% dedicated servers... not going to happen. Where individual users are looking for "more affordable than previously feasible" individual power at their desk there is alignment with with Apple's objectives. If talking about making boxes that primarily only enterprises can afford... Apple isn't going there.


The industry is flat-footed right now and could be left in the dust.

There is nothing particularly flat footed at all about the industry trend to moving more generalized computation responsibilities over to the GPGPU card (or which is effectively a variant of although also a bit of hybrid. )

It is happening on computers from card sized to the largest supercomputer clusters. Apple's workstation getting a Phi card would be just be "Keeping up with the Joneses".

More likely the debate in Apple is whether the TFLOPs performance of the "normal" GPGPUs enough to keep in contact with the very high performance segments of the market. Apple would just wait on Moore's law to bring today's top end numbers into a affordable component cost in 2-4 years.
 
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