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64bit kernel issue with Drobo, Recommendation for high capacity external storage

VirtualRain said:
If he just wants to use this as a JBOD enclosure (assumption here) wouldn't this card be plenty good enough? However, if he wants to run a parity RAID array... I agree with you.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure if he wants a JBOD or not, but suspect it's a viable solution. ;) But I answered the question in the mean time, as we need some additional information (perhaps some brands and product numbers to research would give a good idea where he needs to go, and narrow down the questions).

As per Highpoint, given the issues he's had with Customer Support, I'd skip their products, even for a JBOD (their support dept. is that bad - it's possible they'll leave him with no solution to a problem). :( But that's what happens when a vendor uses ODM's for their products and doesn't train their support staff properly (or even close). :rolleyes:
 
Androsyyz, do you really need all of that content available all of the time? If you have several years worth of content from customers that may only rarely ask for new prints, it sounds like you need an archival solution.

I agree about tape. Slow, awkward, and unreliable over the long term.

I would consider a drive enclosure with removable trays, and several inexpensive 2TB hard drives on trays. As a bonus you can keep them in a firesafe. If you need a backup, and I assume you do, keep two sets of the drives.

I realize you still need a lot of content available all of the time (music, movies, and current projects), but your requirements can be reduced quite a bit if you get all that data off there that should have been archived in the first place.

As for your original problem, I agree with others. Run the 32bit kernel until Drobo gets its act together or until you find a better iSCSI initiator.
 
I'm a little surprised you with with iSCSI/network connected storage for what you are doing. If its not for multi-machine access, you are spending extra money on a feature set that gives you flexibility at the cost of performance that you are not using.

I'd go with some direct attached storage disk RAID, you'll get much faster performance at probably half the cost of those units without the configuration headaches. Especially with some multiplexed 3G or 6G card.

--Daniel
 
androsyyz said:
Thank you very much. I'll try these out and see how that works out. Perhaps it can do two things at once, resolve the 64bit kernel mode issue and also perhaps improve performance for data transfer and maybe even with video choppiness from video playback of files on the DroboPros.
Click to expand...

I bought the ATTO iSCSI Mac Initiator. I restarted my MacPro in 64bit and am now copying data without the drives disconnecting. This is almost twice the speed that I was getting before with the iSCSI initiator that the Drobos used by default. Looks like this resolved the disconnection issue. The transfer speed is around 54 MB/second. Does this speed sound reasonable?

Some of the parameters that can be set within the iSCSI initiator are as follows:

TRANSFER SIZE
FirstBurstLength: default value is 1048576
MaxBurstLength: default value is 1048576

CONNECTION
MaxRecvDataSegmentLength
Initiator: 1048576

I'm wondering if the default values should be adjusted to something else to get even better performance. Would you have any recommendations for what to set these to for the DroboPros and the Drobo? Each device can get it's own values. Should I leave them with their default values or would there be different values that would be better to get better performance?
 
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After the troubles you have been through, I'm surprised you are still sticking with the Drobo(s) .

For the money you can easily get decent multibay eSATA enclosures and controller cards from more reputable companies .
It'd not be as convenient as the automated Drobos can be, but quite faster and more reliable in the long run.

I'm looking at Datoptic enclosures right now, I dig the trayless design of some models, and they are supposed to be fairly quiet .
They look a little raw, though .
 
I am using two drobo units. One is attached to my iMac which is booted into 64 bit kernel mode and the drobo works fine. I had an issue before they updated their firmware, but that was some months ago.

I am not sure why yours is a problem?

I have the other drobo as a media server attached to a 2010 mini. That is also booted into 64 bit.
 
barmann said:
After the troubles you have been through, I'm surprised you are still sticking with the Drobo(s) .

For the money you can easily get decent multibay eSATA enclosures and controller cards from more reputable companies .
It'd not be as convenient as the automated Drobos can be, but quite faster and more reliable in the long run.

I'm looking at Datoptic enclosures right now, I dig the trayless design of some models, and they are supposed to be fairly quiet .
They look a little raw, though .
Click to expand...

Two of the DroboPros were purchased more than a year ago so they're mine to keep and this is why I'm persisting in finding a solution for them. I received an RMA to return the DroboElite that I bought in August and I finished a backup yesterday so now I'm ready to return it. I'm dealing with the vendor that I deal with in Toronto as I can only get credit on the DroboElite and buy something else instead so I'm very close to replacing at least the DroboElite.
 
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Bye Bye Baby said:
I am using two drobo units. One is attached to my iMac which is booted into 64 bit kernel mode and the drobo works fine. I had an issue before they updated their firmware, but that was some months ago.

I am not sure why yours is a problem?

I have the other drobo as a media server attached to a 2010 mini. That is also booted into 64 bit.
Click to expand...

There is no problem if I only connect one Drobo at a time on the MacPro at a time.

I only experience the issue when I connect 2 or more drobos on the same host. This is re-creatable on two totally different MacPros. Furthermore, the disconnection issue occurs with 2 or 3 of the drives in any combination (ie: 2 DroboPro + 1 DroboElite, 1 DroboPro + 1 DroboElite, 2 DroboPro + 1 Droboelite).

If I connect any one of the Drobos at a time on a single host, I have no problem with running in 64bit bit mode. It's introducing a second Drobo on the iSCSI on the same host that I have the issue. It doesn't matter if I use the built in MacPro ethernet port for the Drobo connection or if I use a switch to connect them or if I add in a third party ethernet card. I get exactly the same result.

As mentioned earlier, I replaced the iSCSI initiator with "Atto - Extend SAN - Mac iSCSI Initiator" and the problem is gone. I have 2 DroboPros and 1 DroboElite connected right now on a single MacPro running in 64bit kernel mode and everything is working fine. Not only that, I've done two copies of 800GB so far and they're done at twice the speed from what it was taking before.
 
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barmann said:
After the troubles you have been through, I'm surprised you are still sticking with the Drobo(s) .

For the money you can easily get decent multibay eSATA enclosures and controller cards from more reputable companies .
It'd not be as convenient as the automated Drobos can be, but quite faster and more reliable in the long run.

I'm looking at Datoptic enclosures right now, I dig the trayless design of some models, and they are supposed to be fairly quiet .
They look a little raw, though .
Click to expand...

I'm in the process of selecting an eSATA solution that my dealer can get. What I'm planning to do is get two 16TB enclosures and then I'll use the two DroboPros that I have as backup units. From the input I received here on this thread, I looked at several options I can get more capacity, substantial increase in performance and a fraction of the cost of what I spent on the DroboElite. The DroboElite is going to be returned tomorrow.
 
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Unfortunately, I'm getting system panic attacks even with the Atto iSCSI initiator. I'm using 2 DroboPros connected via iSCSI and the MacPro running in 64bit kernel.

Atto has confirmed that the panic attacks are due to Drobo's driver:

Kernel Extensions in backtrace (with dependencies):
com.DataRobotics.driver.iSCSIInitiator(1.4.31)

For now, I'll run my system in 32bit mode and then I won't have any issues, guess I won't have any choice until Datarobotics fixes their driver to run in 64bit mode.
 
Did you uninstall the Drobo iSCSI initiator? It shouldn't be present on your system any more...
 
I tried drobo's and ditched them at the beginning of the year. I built a 17 TB WHS that has been perfect. However since Disk Expander is going to be dropped in Vail,I am moving to a friendly NAS, I have just ordered the new Synology DS1511+, this takes 5 disks and then I can add up to two DX510 units to expand the whole thing to 15 drives, synology is very fast and appears to play well with macs, there is not a product page for the ds1511 yet for the USA, but it is very similar to the DS1010+ that is listed, main difference being a better processor and the two expansion ports. Advertised speeds are 100mb++, I will be testing and posting a review.
 
dubaimac said:
I tried drobo's and ditched them at the beginning of the year. I built a 17 TB WHS that has been perfect. However since Disk Expander is going to be dropped in Vail,I am moving to a friendly NAS, I have just ordered the new Synology DS1511+, this takes 5 disks and then I can add up to two DX510 units to expand the whole thing to 15 drives, synology is very fast and appears to play well with macs, there is not a product page for the ds1511 yet for the USA, but it is very similar to the DS1010+ that is listed, main difference being a better processor and the two expansion ports. Advertised speeds are 100mb++, I will be testing and posting a review.
Click to expand...

lets us know how it works out . I have a 1 bay synology with a 2tb samsung inside, it has been pretty much perfect so far. nice thing about a NAS setup is you do not need it to be near the computer.
 
androsyyz said:
Someone finds the thread fishy so I'll provide more details, I tried to keep the original post short although the following will give more context to my original request.

I had the 3 Drobo drives connected to a first generation MacPro and they worked fine. I only started having the disconnection issue after buying the new MacPro (Model identifier MacPro5,1). I bought the DroboElite at the same time as the new MacPro. Prior to this, the two DroboPros were working fine on the previous MacPro, however, I was having video choppiness. I added the Droboelite since it was supposed to be faster and I did confirm that the video choppiness was gone once I loaded the videos on the DroboElite.
Click to expand...



First: forget about drobo, drobo is not for you, somebody with 12k MacPro needs something better than drobo, drobo is like USB stick on your key chain.

Sans digital are cool, but they only supply software base ready raid cards, despite what website says. Bottom line: they are shipped with esata raid ready card which uses OS raid capabilities, if you will get 8 HD tower going with (FirmTek SeriTek/2ME4E) instead, it will be super rock solid and fast. 400MB/s
But you would need to do some research which esata card would be the best for the job with their case.

You can also go with tested reliable solution from OCW: http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other World Computing/MEQX2KIT0GB/

OWC Mercury Elite-AL Pro Qx2 - Enclosure with build in RAID, it will set you 300$. Install 4 x 2TB WD black drives. And you will have very fast very reliable RAID 5 system.(240MB/s)
In my personal opinion this is the most reliable stuff you can get.250MB/S is max what you can get on SATA II with Port Multiplier)

OCW guys have very good support, responsive and very knowledgeable, on the market for many years and providing great MAC solutions.

If you want absolutely the fastest non SSD solution, get FirmTek SeriTek/2ME4E with 2-3 SeriTek/5PM Port Multiplier Enclosures
Check the benchmark:
http://www.firmtek.com/seritek/seritek-2me4-e/perform/

You could go with different card eg.: some highpoint RAID card and have similar results.

Just to compare Drobo speed is about 35-40MB/s on firewire 800.
 
I have been looking at the Qx2 for my next enclosure but if it's as loud as the dual bay enclosure OWC sells, then would suggest look elsewhere. Would be nice if this unit could be used as 4 separate drives instead of raid (from what I have read it can't).
 
bearcatrp said:
I have been looking at the Qx2 for my next enclosure but if it's as loud as the dual bay enclosure OWC sells, then would suggest look elsewhere. Would be nice if this unit could be used as 4 separate drives instead of raid (from what I have read it can't).
Click to expand...

I owned two of them sold them on ebay.

they have 1 esata jack top speed of 220 to 240mb/s


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...InUXbH0k0DbpuSId8%3D&viewitem=#ht_2522wt_1141



this is the link to it. it is quiet it has some good points you can boot it with fw800 if need be. the down side is no jbod and top speed of 220-240mb/s needs a pci e card for esata. so if you buy one for 300 new and buy a pci ecard for 100 you are at 400 without a drive in it.
no jbod 1 esata jack

the sans digital 8 bay on sale for 205 with a rocket raid 2314 card at 100 more is 305. needs a fan mod it is loud. holds 8 hdds gets over 350 mb/s no fw no usb. you can make an argument for either one depends on your needs.

link to sans digital

http://store.sansdigital-shop.com/totr8baysato9.html



note to mods I am not selling that ebay link that was for info only It was sold last week.
 
philipma1957 said:
I owned two of them sold them on ebay.

they have 1 esata jack top speed of 220 to 240mb/s
Click to expand...
Keep in mind, the data is switched and processed by the RAID chip in the enclosure, then pushed over a single eSATA port. The performance you saw is actually decent.

philipma1957 said:
the sans digital 8 bay on sale for 205 with a rocket raid 2314 card at 100 more is 305. needs a fan mod it is loud. holds 8 hdds gets over 350 mb/s no fw no usb. you can make an argument for either one depends on your needs.
Click to expand...
The additional speed is due to the fact data is moved over 2x eSATA ports (so there's double the available bandwidth, assuming the load is equal; that is 4x disks per eSATA port).

In this instance, the enclosure only has a PM chip, and any RAID processing you've enabled is software based (load is on the system).

When you think about this, it's not that wonderful.

This conclusion is derived by dividing the throughput by the number of eSATA ports or disks (either works).

In the case of the Qx2, you get:
  • Worst case = (220MB/s)/4 = 55MB/s per disk or 220MB/s per eSATA port
  • Best case = (240MB/s)/4 = 60MB/s per disk or 240MB/s per eSATA port
For the Sans Digital:
  • (350MB/s)/8 = 43.75MB/s per disk or 175MB/s per eSATA port
Now this doesn't take cost into consideration, nor does it take into account any other RAID level (presume you data througput information was obtained from RAID 0). But you can't do RAID 5 on the Sans Digital, so it has some advantages if they're needed.

I know they claim RAID 5 for the 2314, but it's a software implementation, which you do not want to do (no solution to the write hole issue). You need hardware to do that.

Another note, the Qx2 does do JBOD according to OWC (they call it NRAID spanning, but is the same thing; concatenate the members in the set). It may require moving the A-B switch on the back (switches between RAID and JBOD mode), or possibly software included with the unit to enable it though. It's also $300USD empty, which is competitive for similar products.
 
nanofrog said:
Another note, the Qx2 does do JBOD according to OWC (they call it NRAID spanning, but is the same thing; concatenate the members in the set). It may require moving the A-B switch on the back (switches between RAID and JBOD mode), or possibly software included with the unit to enable it though.
Click to expand...

Isn't JBOD supposed to show each single harddrive as one logical volume, as opposed to Spanning ?
 
when I played around with the owc qx2 cases the version of JBOD was funky. not plain or simple 4 hdds 4 volumes. still it is a good piece of gear.


the sans digitial 8 bay or the rosewill 8 bay does 8 hdds 8 volumes. also you can pull a volume and put a new one in without crashing.

the qx2 is nice it boots easy with fw800. it is quiet. it should be able to use 3tb hdds so it can have 12tb of info.
 
sebo2000 said:
First: forget about drobo, drobo is not for you, somebody with 12k MacPro needs something better than drobo, drobo is like USB stick on your key chain.

Sans digital are cool, but they only supply software base ready raid cards, despite what website says. Bottom line: they are shipped with esata raid ready card which uses OS raid capabilities, if you will get 8 HD tower going with (FirmTek SeriTek/2ME4E) instead, it will be super rock solid and fast. 400MB/s
But you would need to do some research which esata card would be the best for the job with their case.

You can also go with tested reliable solution from OCW: http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other World Computing/MEQX2KIT0GB/

OWC Mercury Elite-AL Pro Qx2 - Enclosure with build in RAID, it will set you 300$. Install 4 x 2TB WD black drives. And you will have very fast very reliable RAID 5 system.(240MB/s)
In my personal opinion this is the most reliable stuff you can get.250MB/S is max what you can get on SATA II with Port Multiplier)

OCW guys have very good support, responsive and very knowledgeable, on the market for many years and providing great MAC solutions.

If you want absolutely the fastest non SSD solution, get FirmTek SeriTek/2ME4E with 2-3 SeriTek/5PM Port Multiplier Enclosures
Check the benchmark:
http://www.firmtek.com/seritek/seritek-2me4-e/perform/

You could go with different card eg.: some highpoint RAID card and have similar results.

Just to compare Drobo speed is about 35-40MB/s on firewire 800.
Click to expand...


Awesome, thanks for the suggestion and overview of the benefits of going with this option with the items to get. Do you know if the units are relatively quiet?
 
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