No.
It can, if you know anything whatsoever about what Unified Memory means.
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8GB RAM in M3 MacBook Pro Proves the Bottleneck in Real-World Tests
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No.
It can, if you know anything whatsoever about what Unified Memory means.
So is the problem that the MBP doesn't start at $1800, or that it does not start out cheap enough?
Ok, looking forward to you showing me the original documents proving that Apple doesn’t order custom chips for the MacBook Pro. Oh, that’s right, those documents aren’t available, so we don’t know either way. And I know what Unified Memory is.
My “problem” with that particular thread of conversation is this weird notion that the $1600 is “a discount”. It’s simply an M3 in the chassis of what was previously only for the Pro SoCs, so of course it costs $400 less. I wouldn’t recommend that people buy that config (if you’re going to spend $1,600, might as well make it $1,800 to have twice the RAM, and if you do that, the question becomes if that’s really a better deal than the M3 Pro), but that’s neither here nor there.
Do you? Because then your hypothesis doesn’t really work, does it? “Unified Memory” just means that instead of hard-partitioning the RAM (say, 2 GiB for the GPU, 5 for the CPU, 1 for the Neural Engine), all cores get access to the same address space. In both cases, the cores access the RAM chips simultaneously. There is therefore nothing the RAM chips need to do to enable this.
You know that Apple's documentation on procurement are not public, so to suggest someone show you the original documents is impossible without someone breaching either confidentiality agreements, or any NDA they may have or where information may have been obtained by dubious means, hence I would not wish to see anyone putting themselves in danger of litigation or anyone publishing proprietary confidential material or encouraging disclosure of such information.
If for example Apple chips were all custom, you would have a great deal of trouble explaining how we managed to upgrade SSD's as an example on the M1 Mac mini and where others have successfully upgraded also and where although I've seen no 'compelling evidence' that a Chinese engineer has successfully upgraded the RAM, I do not know he hasn't and have no compelling evidence he hasn't as for some time it was stated that the SSD's could not be upgraded, being bespoke components, which proved incorrect.
This link to a published Macrumours story about upgrading the RAM would suggest it was done, albeit I'd rather have seen a video of the whole process and demonstrating it working.
M1 Mac RAM and SSD Upgrades Found to Be Possible After Purchase
Technicians in China have reportedly succeeded in upgrading the memory and storage of the M1 chip, suggesting that Apple's integrated custom...
www.macrumors.com
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One comment accompanying article on RAM upgrade should be taken seriously, which I've amended. It would be insane for most users to try to upgrade RAM on M series chips. Yes we upgraded the SSD and its still functioning with no problems. We never even bothered with the RAM as at that point there didn't seem the need or the will, and obviously we didn't want to be as adventurous as changing RAM/SSD simultaneously. So for all intensive purposes, for most users the RAM and the SSD are not upgradeable and to some extent its superfluous to the argument about base configuration and cost, albeit the cost of chips in bulk between 8Gb to 16Gb is negligible when cost savings are taken into account that would be made by a 16Gb base configuration (already tooled) and ceasing the 8GB run thereby making a much larger 16Gb run with the economies of scale that accompany that and I don't understand anyone's argument that they don't want a machine with 16Gb which costs either the same as the 8Gb configuration, where cost savings and increased runs brought the cost down, or even with a negligible $25 increase if it offers more longevity for the device, less swapping etc., especially in the face of Apple's changing stance from its original stance that 8Gb of Mac RAM (unified) had an equivalence to 16Gb on Windows, which is not correct, let alone the fact it then refined that argument to agreeing 8GB was suitable for basic functions, at the same time as coming to the market with its intention to make gaming more prominent on the Mac and of late AI implementation, and software that will become ever more demanding of RAM. Anything soldered with the right kit etc., is likely to be able to be modified, but I've seen no third parties offering RAM upgrades on M series chips which you would expect if financially viable and safe. I wouldn't even offer SSD upgrades and we know ours worked!
I'm currently using an 18GB MacBook Pro M3 Pro. It's chewing through 12GB right this second doing almost nothing. Yes it would use less if it had less but the reason it's using more is because it improves performance and responsiveness. 8GB gimps these machines, and informed opinion to the contrary is either pure denial or intellectual dishonesty. In my opinion.
And? This doesn’t prove that Apple doesn’t buy custom RAM chips with specific specs for the performance they want to achieve. It just doesn’t. There’s no way for you to prove that they aren’t built to custom performance specifications, etc. It’s just your opinion that they aren’t custom ordered, there’s no hard evidence you can provide to prove that they aren’t. We lack the data to prove anything.
Again, I’m merely pointing out that such evidence is unavailable. Some people keep trying to make truth claims like “Apple doesn’t custom order their RAM chips”, “costs of moving to 16GB for base spec would be negligible”, etc., when they simply can’t prove what they’re saying to be true. The evidence is lacking, and no one can produce any evidence for the reasons you cited. So they’re making claims beyond what they can actually prove.You know that Apple's documentation on procurement are not public, so to suggest someone show you the original documents is impossible without someone breaching either confidentiality agreements, or any NDA they may have or where information may have been obtained by dubious means, hence I would not wish to see anyone putting themselves in danger of litigation or anyone publishing proprietary confidential material or encouraging disclosure of such information.
If for example Apple chips were all custom, you would have a great deal of trouble explaining how we managed to upgrade SSD's as an example on the M1 Mac mini and where others have successfully upgraded also and where although I've seen no 'compelling evidence' that a Chinese engineer has successfully upgraded the RAM, I do not know he hasn't and have no compelling evidence he hasn't as for some time it was stated that the SSD's could not be upgraded, being bespoke components, which proved incorrect.
This link to a published Macrumours story about upgrading the RAM would suggest it was done, albeit I'd rather have seen a video of the whole process and demonstrating it working.
M1 Mac RAM and SSD Upgrades Found to Be Possible After Purchase
Technicians in China have reportedly succeeded in upgrading the memory and storage of the M1 chip, suggesting that Apple's integrated custom...
The 16GB configuration shouldn’t cost the same or only $25 more than the 8GB configuration, it should cost $200 more because that’s the value of that configuration. As I’ve already demonstrated with several examples from competitors, several of Apple’s competitors are charging the same, higher, or close to the same for such RAM upgrades. And as far as I’ve seen, none of these other competitors are charging “only what the chip costs” for a RAM upgrade. Why should Apple have to lose profits when basically none of the other companies do this?
It depends whether someone wants to believe it, as you can prove nothing to those who will not believe. I know the SSD chips are not bespoke as we changed them in m1 Mac mini, so it its reasonable to suggest that RAM is similar, and if you look at the pictures posted on Macrumor of the alleged M1 RAM upgrade you can count the pins and we know the chips are Hynix and the type of chip? Others can of course legitimately turn the argument as to can you prove they are bespoke, but where I don't consider it that relevant, as I would never recommend anyone but a skilled engineer from even attempting an SSD change, let alone upgrading RAM.
Personally I feel that comment about the chip is almost obfuscation and not that irelevant to the argument over cost and savings from removing the 8Gb existing run, and using the existing 16Gb run with the definite economies of scale both in production and purchasing.
I doubt very much Apple go out of their way to make their procurement more costly than they need to let alone the economies or scale and the purchasing power that Apple have.
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And with swapping RAM, that doesn’t prove that Apple’s OEM RAM isn’t custom ordered. It just proves it’s the same pin interface. That doesn’t mean that it wasn’t potentially custom ordered to specific performance specs. And I’m not making the truth statement “they’re definitely bespoke”, I’m saying it’s a possibility that can’t be discounted because the evidence doesn’t exist to prove or disprove it.
Yes indeed. Your position is “I’m going to make a wild claim, supported by bugger-all, and you can’t prove me wrong, neener-neener!”
And we still haven’t seen an attempt to give a potential reason. Can Apple’s special RAM cure cancer?
No, I’m not claiming that the RAM Apple uses is definitely custom. I’m saying that it could be custom ordered, we don’t know and lack evidence to conclude either way, so also cannot definitely say it is not custom ordered…
This is not a wild claim. It’s actually not even a claim at all. It’s a statement of fact. We lack evidence, so cannot say for 100% certainty in either direction. I can’t say it’s not a generic chip, and you can’t say it’s not a custom ordered chip. We simply don’t know, and can’t know because we lack the required information. It’s kind of similar to schroedinger’s cat. We lack information, so must be open to the possibility that the cat is either alive or dead, both are possible, and we have no way of knowing which is the case.
Besides, again, it’s not about the cost of the chip itself, it’s about the value of the end product. Everything is sold at a markup. That’s the only way companies make profit. And plenty of Apple’s competitors are charging similar or higher rates for the same RAM upgrades on their computers. Why should Apple be the only one losing out on profit when their competitors are charging similar or same pricing for these upgrades as Apple is?
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I tackled the information blanks by enquiring about ordering 1,000 units of m1 apple compatible RAM chips via two companies on the basis of compatibility guaranteed: SK Hynix direct, and a third party supplier, so whilst they couldn't mention another clients specs., and nor did I request them, they confirmed they could supply RAM chips for the job. They also confirmed that economies of scale would certainly apply: the bigger the order the cheaper the chips.
You are welcome to do the same.
I've also contacted the engineer Yang Changshun from Guangzhou who purported to have successfully upgraded the RAM on M1 and interestingly it is suggested the existing Hynix RAM was replaced with another company's RAM which if true would end any comment about special RAM. However, I do not verify how authentic the claim is and would not pretend to, as I'm not in the business of click bait promotion, so I treat the claims as unproven to me.
Away for a while so hope I don't miss much in the next week.
Main thing all. Different opinions are nothing to be afraid of, but also nothing that should encourage animosity. Life is too short and there's far too much animosity and hatred in the world as it is.
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M1 Mac RAM and SSD Upgrades Found to Be Possible After Purchase
Technicians in China have reportedly succeeded in upgrading the memory and storage of the M1 chip, suggesting that Apple's integrated custom...
www.macrumors.com
Here is the proof. I don't think these Chinese technicians have access to magic fairy dust unified ram. They just use off the shelf RAM with the right specs.
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I am also tired of the concept that the price is solely based on the cost of materials. Apple is in business to make money, the price they charge is based on what they believe will make the most profit. The cost of the materials is only a factor if it is so expensive that it would impact Apple from making a profit. Apple charges $200 for a RAM because enough consumers are willing to pay that much. If Apple thought they could sell enough units at twice the current price, they would.
Apple has always been about selling a premium product at a premium price (just like Rolex watches). They were never about selling quantity sales with a low margin.
And you can replace high performance RAM cards with lower performance ones with the same interface. People claiming to have swapped RAM chips proves nothing about whether or not Apple’s OEM chips are custom ordered or generic…M1 Mac RAM and SSD Upgrades Found to Be Possible After Purchase
Technicians in China have reportedly succeeded in upgrading the memory and storage of the M1 chip, suggesting that Apple's integrated custom...
Here is the proof. I don't think these Chinese technicians have access to magic fairy dust unified ram. They just use off the shelf RAM with the right specs.
Exactly, couldn’t say it better. 👍🏻 And Apple’s RAM pricing is actually very competitive with other competitors.
Totally agree with your last paragraph there. 👍🏻
I’m not sure that someone swapping a RAM chip proves anything about whether Apple custom orders chips built to certain specifications. I’m not saying Apple necessarily uses a proprietary pin interface, but they may have custom ordered RAM cards built to specific specs in terms of other aspects like speed and performance. Or in other words, the internal specs of the chip.
Arguably, it's a decision by Apple driven more by the reduction of the life expectancy of their products- as is already being seen with the iPhones, RAM in larger quantities is essential for even the most basic modern AI tasks. Keeping RAM on Macs so low will drive a wave of new purchases in the near future, which is much more financially significant than the money made from those that paid the high upgrade fees. (Though of course they enjoy that profit too!)
With your attitude one can just as easily assume that Apple indeed orders custom RAM chips with worse specs to maximize profits. If they were ordering "super RAM" what exactly would prevent other companies from getting them too? Also, keep in mind that plenty of laptops from other vendors use unified memory (although these laptops are usually the low performance models).