Welllll, that I'm not so sure about. Maybe to some extent. But if you take something like Framework as the other extreme — also relatively thin, but far more repairable — then I would bet its sturdiness is much lower.
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8GB RAM in M3 MacBook Pro Proves the Bottleneck in Real-World Tests
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Welllll, that I'm not so sure about. Maybe to some extent. But if you take something like Framework as the other extreme — also relatively thin, but far more repairable — then I would bet its sturdiness is much lower.
I entirely disagree. If you look at current laptops that still use antiquated RAM cards, they’re significantly thicker and clunkier than the MacBook Air. If you look at the thickness just of the buss connection for attaching the RAM Cards, just that buss connection is probably actually thicker than the lower half of a MacBook Air. There’s a reason they dropped those big, clunky, antique components in 2012…
I'm not saying it has to be modular, but sh*t, they've done the absolute opposite of making laptops easy to repair for the last decade- some worse than others. Consistently worse than Dell, for example. Sometimes just because it saves a few cents.
It doesn't seem like this proof would be hard to find. We already see people opening these up to upgrade the SSD - have none of them ID'd the memory chips? If they did that it would be easy to compare the model numbers on the RAM chips to that available in the retail market. My bet is they're the same as what's available from vendors, just perhaps packaged differently.
Even if we wanted to entertain your theory that Apple might be ordering RAM chips with custom timing or whatever, it would still be useful for you to explain how or why that would make the RAM more expensive than what's available in the retail market with Apple buying in large quantities. Chances are extremely high that even with custom-spec RAM they're paying less than any of us can buy similar RAM for.
For me, I'd love it if more computer manufacturers went back to using plastic for the chassis of their computers. Metal is cold and uncomfortable (and heavier). That's why I love using my iPads but in plastic keyboard cases - all plastic so my wrists don't ache from the cold.
All I was pointing out with that is that we can’t rule that out as a possibility given the information we currently have, which some people were trying to claim we could. Really, whatever Apple pays for their RAM chips doesn’t really matter. I haven’t seen a single computer manufacturer selling RAM upgrades for only exactly what the RAM chip or card costed them. Even computers that still use antiquated RAM cards generally charge more for a higher RAM configuration than just the cost of the RAM cards themselves. And I’ve already provided several examples where competitors are charging similar, the same, or higher prices for the same RAM upgrades as Apple. So Apple’s RAM upgrade pricing is competitive with other manufacturers.
I’ve not seen a single source claiming this info, and even if I did, I wouldn’t just knee jerk trust it. With how many of these YouTubers and other media people bold-face lie about stuff and mislead people, there are some sources I would immediately question in regards to the validity. That’s not to say I couldn’t be convinced, just there are some sources that I definitely find untrustworthy for this kind of thing, and I would want to be able to verify any such claims…
That’s fine, but I’m definitely glad that the iPad’s and MacBooks don’t use plastic. Plastic is flimsy and cheap in my opinion. I’m not really liking the rumors about the Apple Watch SE moving to plastic. Metal is more premium material, is more durable, looks better, and is overall better in my opinion. But the body material was more of a secondary point in the point I was making, not the primary thing I was talking about.
A little off topic, but it sounds like you’re also an iPad user. Do you use an iPad as your primary device (more in place of a MacBook for example) or as a secondary one? I use my iPad as my primary computer. I have Macs as well, but don’t use them nearly as much as my iPad anymore. 👍🏻
Apple appears to (sometimes?) use RAM with slightly different markings than what I’ve found available in product catalogs. But, similar enough that it’s unlikely to be too unusual. Add to that that they likely get massive bulk discounts (and Tim Cook is known to push for this) since they can order in charges of literally a million+…
I don’t have what Apple does but I have experienced that “custom part numbers” are typically just variations in the pinouts (or I guess you call it array configurations for BGA parts).
Whatever the difference is, it can’t be big. For example, the M1 Air had H9HCNNNCRMMVGR-NEH chips in the iFixit teardown. That exact product doesn’t appear to exist at https://product.skhynix.com/products/dram/lpddr/lpddr4x_4.go. Either it doesn’t any more, or it was never for sale to third parties. Perhaps Apple bought the entire production run. Perhaps there’s something unusual about the configuration that Apple requested. Perhaps the configuration is normal, but Apple requested the real specs be obscured.
Here’s a deciphering of the markings. That post also lists two very similar chips that can be purchased.
If the deciphering is to be believed, the first only differs in its die generation, package option, and operating temperature. The second in its power supply, die generation, and package option.
Ok, at least we can now agree that it’s possible Apple is custom-ordering RAM to certain performance specs…
And again, it doesn’t really matter what Apple pays for their RAM. I’ve never seen a single computer manufacturer pricing RAM upgrades for only what the RAM costs, even with computers that still use antiquated RAM cards. And Apple’s RAM upgrade pricing is competitive with several other manufacturers as I’ve already repeatedly demonstrated.
Yes, I do almost everything from my IPads and only go to a Mac or PC for tasks I can't get done there. So, 95% of the time I'm on an iPad.
Knowing what they pay makes it a lot easier to determine the level of gouging and deciding how dumb it is that they don't ship withy 16GB to begin with.
It's also core to your argument, since you want everyone to leave open the option that Apple is somehow saving money by continuing to produce 8GB models.
What I’m saying is that customers can now save money buying 8GB configurations of the 14” MacBook where before they would have had to pay quite a bit more for one. And even if someone wants to upgrade to the 16GB configuration, they can still save money compared to the previous base spec 14” MacBook Pros.
Awesome! 👍🏻. I think the iPad gets a bad wrap from a lot of the YouTubers and writers. It’s far more capable than they give it credit for.
I was doing computer things from my samsung galaxy s3 in 2011 when it comes to ssd, flash drive connection, MS office edits on the go and printing over the air.
In a current world, person can do their computing needs out of anything to be honest and in the end it boils down to human habits. One time i was glued to my ipad ignoring the iphone and mac, the next time to my new larger iphone and third time i became mac only user - habit is a strong thing here.
First of all, I’ve pointed out the markings in this thread multiple times.
Second, no, we do not agree. Whatever spec Apple is using, it’s unlikely to have a meaningful impact on price.
Then don’t bring it up.
You also claimed that it was definitely generic RAM and not custom-ordered. I specifically was saying that we didn’t know whether they were custom ordered or not, so saying it definitely wasn’t was a step too far. Now you’ve come round to recognizing the possibility of them being custom ordered. I didn’t say custom ordered RAM would necessarily make a difference in pricing, though it does stand to reason that typically custom ordered parts are more expensive than generic ones.
And I didn’t bring it up. Someone said it definitely wasn’t custom ordered, and I pointed out that that was a claim that shouldn’t be made, because we lacked evidence in either direction. I still wouldn’t say for sure that we know it’s custom ordered, but it seems probable with numbers that don’t match any generic parts.
The fact of the matter is, I simply pointed out that it was a possibility that the chips were custom ordered, people debated with me that that was impossible, and now come to find out it looks like a pretty probable possibility…
I agree. This is why I don't like to buy high-end MacBooks. The risk of being hit with a huge repair bill when something breaks is just too big. I prefer to buy a cheap base model and just live with the limitations. For things that need more horsepower I use a stationary Mac like a Mini.
The flipside is that the way modern MacBooks are built, reliability is up, so huge repair bills are also less likely.
I'm not worried so much about the logic board as such, which could very well be more reliable nowadays, but more about all the periphery. Think display, touchpad, connectors. Those repairs tend to be very costly, at least in my experience.
Exactly. In the recent past, MacBook displays were connected in such a way that required a massive and expensive operation, simply because the ribbon cable was soldered in on both ends rather than having connectors. Also, the cable was about 1mm wrong in length, which caused it to fray and screw up the picture, a famous flaw that was massively expensive and difficult to fix due to a few cents saved.
Another example could be the keyboards- and I don't know if this changed in the last couple of years- They used studs to pin the keyboard down, rather than screws. I replaced my mum's keyboard, and it was a pain. I had to remove EVERYTHING to get to it, then tear out the old keyboard. The replacement did have screws... I enjoy tinkering with computers and know what I'm doing, but it could have gone sideways on me and was time consuming. Paying for the repair would have been prohibitively expensive, though. Again, there's various ways they could have made such a repair easier, not least by just using screws, which did not have to be bigger than the studs. But they'd rather you just bin the entire device when the "e" key dies :-(