A campaign to stop stephen fry, who is otherwise wonderful, from being an idiot

[jb007clone]

An interesting and perhaps informative read, whether you agree with it or not.

http://mikedaisey.blogspot.com/2012/02/stop-stephen-fry-from-being-idiot.html

 

[*LTD*]

Time to let it go and leave it to Apple and Foxconn, and whatever Chinese regulatory bodies are over there.

 

[jb007clone]

Time to let it go and leave it to Apple and Foxconn, and whatever Chinese regulatory bodies are over there.

I offer no personal bias, merely a link, but I will bust out this old adage: All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

 

[*LTD*]

I offer no personal bias, merely a link, but I will bust out this old adage: All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

We have yet to establish any "evil" here.

 

[blueroom]

Who on Earth is Mike Daisey?

 

[Peace]

Who on Earth is Mike Daisey?

And what is his point ?

 

[jb007clone]

We have yet to establish any "evil" here.

I would hesitate to use the word 'we'. That is your opinion, not exactly a worldwide consensus.

 

[Peace]

This is like a mob goes to grocery store that is being robbed by 10 people and one is a movie star.So the mob beats up the movie star.

 

[jb007clone]

This is like a mob goes to grocery store that is being robbed by 10 people and one is a movie star.So the mob beats up the movie star.

From the link:

I see this all the time as a defense. It is actually the preferred defense of Mac fanboys and tech apologists of all stripes, and it's pathetic.

Yes, Foxconn makes things for many different companies. Yes, conditions are terrible across the entire Special Economic Zone. But it is bizarre tech fannishness in the extreme to somehow think that because others are implicated in a crime that this somehow absolves Apple. It's like a child being caught with their hand in a cookie jar pointing at other children and saying, "They did it too!"

 

[Peace]

From the link:

My point was the media is focusing on Apple instead of EVERY TECH COMPANY.

Not trying to absolve Apple. Merely wanting to see the whole industry take the blame and be in the spotlight also.

Just like this thread.

In essence. Why not mention HP and Dell in the same sentence as Apple.

 

[pivo6]

Who on Earth is Mike Daisey?

Mike Daisy is the topic of this thread: Link

 

[chrono1081]

My point was the media is focusing on Apple instead of EVERY TECH COMPANY.

Not trying to absolve Apple. Merely wanting to see the whole industry take the blame and be in the spotlight also.

Just like this thread.

In essence. Why not mention HP and Dell in the same sentence as Apple.

This.

Unfortunately the dumb people want to only point fingers at Apple because they can't think or research for themselves and realize EVERY electronic component in their house most likely has a Foxconn component in it.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

This.

Unfortunately the dumb people want to only point fingers at Apple because they can't think or research for themselves and realize EVERY electronic component in their house most likely has a Foxconn component in it.

but at the same time should Apple be given a free pass? I would say no. Apple also is in the best position to cause some change.

 

[jb007clone]

My point was the media is focusing on Apple instead of EVERY TECH COMPANY.

Not trying to absolve Apple. Merely wanting to see the whole industry take the blame and be in the spotlight also.

Just like this thread.

In essence. Why not mention HP and Dell in the same sentence as Apple.

This is a problem with journalism, particularly in that it is unfair, but it has nothing to do with the issues at hand.

Wrong is wrong. Ruminations and complaints on who gets how much blame are just smoke screens and window dressing.

 

[rhett7660]

but at the same time should Apple be given a free pass? I would say no. Apple also is in the best position to cause some change.

Who said Apple is has been given a free pass? If you are going to point out one might as well point them all out. Yes? Why do we need to just point out one?

----------

This is a problem with journalism, particularly in that it is unfair, but it has nothing to do with the issues at hand.

Wrong is wrong. Ruminations and complaints on who gets how much blame are just smoke screens and window dressing.

Really, then why don't we change everything in this thread to mention just Dell or HP? You did post this in the Internet Discussion section so it doesn't have to be about Apple after all. I mean it is just window dressing right? So far the blame or out crying seems to be only blaming Apple and if others mention the other business we are just blowing smoke to hide something?

 

[Rodimus Prime]

Who said Apple is has been given a free pass? If you are going to point out one might as well point them all out. Yes? Why do we need to just point out one?

----------

While yeah that is true but the one who should take the most heat is the one who is in the best position to do something about it. That would be Apple by a long shot as such they should be taking 80-90% of the heat over the matter since they can have some real effect on the matter.

 

[*LTD*]

While yeah that is true but the one who should take the most heat is the one who is in the best position to do something about it. That would be Apple by a long shot as such they should be taking 80-90% of the heat over the matter since they can have some real effect on the matter.

Why do you think they are in "the best position" to do something about it?

How can they, as opposed to HP or Dell, have any more "real effect" on the matter?

Hmmm . . . I don't see HP and Dell bending over backwards to do anything. Why should Apple (and take a loss in the process)? What's the incentive?

 

[Rodimus Prime]

Why do you think they are in "the best position" to do something about it?

How can they, as opposed to HP or Dell, have any more "real effect" on the matter?

Lets see they the largest single contractor with Foxconn.
PR wise Apple has a hell of a lot more force and weapon that Dell or HP or the others. So Apple doing something will have some real effect. Apple also has its army of Fanboys who will praise and sing along spreading the word even faster.

The Fanboys now do what ever they can to defend Apple but us them for good and help get the real pressure to do something. Apple has the tools and power to do it.

Are you telling me that HP and Dell have larger contracts than Apple or have anywhere close to the PR power Apple has?

Apple has the most power by far to force some real change. Others would be fairly quick to follow suit because they do not want the bad press and having Apple use it as a weapon against them. The press would make it a huge deal with Apple doing some real change.

 

[*LTD*]

Lets see they the largest single contractor with Foxconn.

So? Why should they make life more difficult between themselves and their supplier?

PR wise Apple has a hell of a lot more force and weapon that Dell or HP or the others.

Alright.

So Apple doing something will have some real effect.

It might. But why should they be the first? How is it actually incumbent upon them to take the first step?

Apple also has its army of Fanboys who will praise and sing along spreading the word even faster.

The Fanboys now do what ever they can to defend Apple but us them for good and help get the real pressure to do something.

You sure use "fanboy" a lot.

Apple has the tools and power to do it.

Maybe. Let's assume they do though (which is outrageously oversimplifying it.) So again, why should they? Why should they shoulder this burden? Clearly, no one else has stepped up to the plate. No one else has shown any of the initiative you're so desperately looking for. Why does Apple's size, money and influence automatically require them to start a process which will foul up their supply chain, when they can barely meet consumer demand as it is? Would YOU like to make up for any shortfall and answer to Apple's board?

Why no start work on it now. Put together a PowerPoint show.

Are you telling me that HP and Dell have larger contracts than Apple or have anywhere close to the PR power Apple has?

It doesn't make any difference who has the larger contract or who has more PR muscle.

Apple has the most power by far to force some real change.

Why? For what purpose?

Where's the incentive? "Bad press"? There are billions at stake here and the US' business relationship with China. Not to mention the MOUNTAIN of US debt that China currently holds. Destabilizing that relationship over this nebulous claim of "bad press" isn't going to happen. And Apple *especially* will be quite careful about playing nice with China, for obvious reasons.

What do you want Apple to DO, exactly?

Details, pls.

 

[rhett7660]

While yeah that is true but the one who should take the most heat is the one who is in the best position to do something about it. That would be Apple by a long shot as such they should be taking 80-90% of the heat over the matter since they can have some real effect on the matter.

Sooo where was this heat on HP or DELL or SONY before apple was this big? I didn't hear anything about it in the tech sites or blogs? Why all of sudden must Apple take the "heat"?

How is Apple in the best position to do anything about it? I hope you are not insinuating that Apple should solve the working problems of another country, especailly one that is called China.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

Sooo where was this heat on HP or DELL or SONY before apple was this big? I didn't hear anything about it in the tech sites or blogs? Why all of sudden must Apple take the "heat"?

How is Apple in the best position to do anything about it? I hope you are not insinuating that Apple should solve the working problems of another country, especailly one that is called China.

Already explain how they are in the best spot.

The are the single largest customers of Foxconn. They also have the army of fanboys and they have the PR part to do it. Apple could use the fact that its big in the press to make huge waves on effecting change.

And Apple is not changing working problems of China but companies it works with. Apple could move the jobs to another country or bring them back state side. They would not have a workforce as large but would relay on other things like robots. Heck that is how foxcon does it. Only differences their robots are humans that they treat like robots. The workforce of people does not need to be anywhere near as large as what is used in China to get the same number of units produced.

As I said they should take 90% of the heat and pressure because they are the one who can effect the most change. Biggest thing is getting the dominoes to start falling and it is that first push that is the hardest. Apple has the power to start it.

 

[roadbloc]

This topic became boring a long time ago. Nothing is going to change. Time to move on.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

This topic became boring a long time ago. Nothing is going to change. Time to move on.

kind of have to agree with you. What we do see more and more of is the Apple apologetist coming out to try to cover for Apple. Since the standard method did not work they now are trying to use the "They do it too" excuse.

 

[*LTD*]

Interesting to note that MS has been quite soft on this issue, considering their association with that Great Humanitarian, Bill Gates, who is still MS Chairman.

What pro-active initiatives has Gates taken in the name of Chinese labourers?

 

[quasinormal]

In the eighties I saw a man receive a bullet in the head in Southern China near the Vietnam border. He was on stage in front of a crowd and I was in a passing bus. This was standard treatment for petty criminals evidently and no doubt a cultural norm for the area. I just feel it is hypocritical to impose out cultural norms on another culture, especially when we (coalition forces) do things like trash Iraq.

Just what are these people critical of Apple doing for their fellow man? Talk is cheap.